The Virgin Bride

Gohwardan

I see I am making progress with you - You have taken me from pompous, hypocrite, Islamist, to now, bigot - good - bring it on. But also bring intellect and argument - the name calling with you and other Indians is just something I am now used to, but still have not heard or read a cogent argument as what it is in my post here that you object to - I think everybody would like to know - Please tell us what you find objectionable in my post here, that you say justifies that I am a bigot - if you can not do that, then you must examine why persons should take you seriously - deal?

Hobbytys Ultimate Trick

When all else fails, blame the person for hating Islam itself.

Guys, on how many people has Hobbyty tried THIS ultimate weapon?

Once you are branded as Islam hater, he is got it good. All muslims are to hate you. After all you are an Islam hater. Better if you are an Indian. Then Indian muslims will not like you either. Ultimate strategy. Pakistan wins.

Only one trouble. It wont work with me.

Aeisha :

Please lets not say whos muslim and whos not. you donot have the right to judge my faith.

You were asking for a proof of where this is written and i gave you the link. This is not a joke, it is what you were asking for. I am not making fun of anyone.

As far as my man hood is concerned, I am man enough to admit our flaws. Same cannot be said about you. Please lets not get personal. Cuse we are civilized. Lets not get our strong beliefs make us behave like a bunch of animals. I understand that religion is a very personal issue. But if a scholar of Imam Ghazalis stature has that in writing (which i have proved to you, if you wanna contest the writer on sulekha, i suggest you see his references... do not let your belief blind you to the point where you wont beleive writings of Imam Ghazali himself!).

I never said anything against the prophet, nor against Quran. But what I pointed out was personal agendas of imam ghazali in his writings.

If you agree to his ideas, then you are not much of a feminist, cuse its being self defeatist.

There is nothing wrong in reading scholars i agree, but if you do not question there issues and agendas and the history they were going through, and you blindly beleive in everything they say, then despite having eduaction you are shying away from the truth. You might have a lot of respect for this scholar. But now in your eyes, u should lower his status, since it is beyond human logic, and the status of women.

Of all the things, you accused me of being male chauvinist. From all these posts atleast look what i am pointing towards! Of all the things, I want women to be able to function on their own, but if thoughts like these stay in the environment, then how do you expect things to improve for women.

Where did Sitaram come in to this whole business anywayz. I dont even know Sitaram! Give me a break, I dont know why you are getting so upset over nothing. I donot agree with the bashings that the hindus are doing on this board. It is uncivilized. But atleast you are civilized enough to realize what is crap and what is not.

As far as science is concerned, I do beleive it is not complete. It has a lot to look for, and we prabably dont even have an idea as to how far Gods creations are magnificient. But as I am in a scientific field, every day I discover His laws, and how they work. And it is truly enlightening, and uplifting.

In future, please donot refer to my faith, because you have no idea what I beleive and you do not have the right to judge me. Just the way I dont have the right to judge you. And I intend to keep it that way.

hobbyty

Religion is never undesirable. People who insist that we must be slaves a book, a reverend scholar like al-gazebo, a guru are.

id

You are right. My brief is with backward and hateful ideas.

Bapu

[Bharti Barot alias Firdaus Banu, who allegedly set herself ablaze at the Mahasabha office]

What would happen if the daughter of Jamat-e-Islami supremo married a Hindu and converted to Hinduism?

She wont have to bother finding matches when she returns to daddy`s little office. From the way he talks, even this Bapu wont be happy seeing a Muslim girl marrying a Hindu boy.

Braindead fanatics are the same. Hobbyty, Jamat-e-Islami, Mahasabha, Shiv Sena all. They may wear suit or salvar. They all hide their bigotry behind their religion - my religion says I have to be a bigot.

Bapu, will you support a Muslim girl who wants to marry a Hindu boy?

Ms.Ayesha,

I have been out of the scene from Chowk for a while. I saw this article and zoomed through it and found it kind of interesting. However, the interaction here has certainly gotten my attention.

I believe that there is no point in arguing with this gober guy Gowardhana any more. For such people there is the famous saying latoo key bhoot batton sey nahi mantey

Nadir

Gohwardan

In your various posts here, I think you are not critical of attitudes or customs but rather believe, it is Islam itself that is undesirable, do I have this correct, if not can you please clarify?

Gowardhan :

For crying out loud, don`t insult these women, Even if they havent seen stuff from your side. Your facts may be correct, but the way you tell them has an extremist agenda in them, making it difficult to read. We are all civilized people here who should not point fingers at each other. This is a discussion forum, not a Hindu Muslim bashing forum.

We both know what the problems of our societies are. There are extremists in hindu factions, and womens rights are being violated amongst them. But then its not the religion which should be blamed. Its the people with sach extremist points of view. Lets seperate the core from the sugar coatings.

Similarly, I hope you can look at it from a Muslim perspective, at least the progressive ones, and stop hindering their growth by pointing fingers at them. We all want to live, and we all want to live in the way which goes to our self preservation. So keeping that in mind, lets have a progressive discussion.

id 125

When I read guys like you, I feel guilty for having cursed all Muslims because of some bigots like hobbyty on chowk.

AeishA

Are you going to share your husband with 3 other women? It`s legal for him to do so, you know.

Hindu girl suicide: parents, Mahasabha chief arrested

News Bureau • Ahmedabad• August 11• 1:20 PM IST



In a major development on Friday night, Khadia police picked up the president of Hindu Mahasabha, Dashrath Patel, and parents of Bharti Barot alias Firdaus Banu, who allegedly set herself ablaze at the Mahasabha office on Thursday afternoon.

Barot`s father and mother, Kanubhai and Kantaben, were arrested along with her uncle, Magonbhai Barot, all on the charges of abetting to commit suicide.

On Saturday morning, a high-level police team led by DCP (zone-III), R D Makadia, went to the spot again along with forensic experts for another round of investigations.

The accused will be produced before the Special Leave Court on Saturday when the police will seek their remand for further investigation.

``We are also checking how Dashrath behaved with the girl and if there was any sort of instigation from his side leading to this shocking incident,`` the DCP added.

Bharti Barot, a 19-year-old girl who had embraced Islam to get married to one Salim Shaikh from the same area in Sabarmati of Ahmedabad, reportedly set herself ablaze at the Hindu Mahasabha office in the city`s Raipur area on Thursday afternoon.

But mystery surrounds her death, as police are confused about how Bharti managed to get kerosene at the Hindu Mahasabha office, even as Mahasabha activists including president Dashrath Patel were present at the time.

Even her parents, who had taken Bharti to the Mahasabha for ``counselling``, pleaded ignorance about her committing suicide.

Bharti was in love with Salim, who hails from the Bakra Mandi area of Sabarmati, for the last few years, despite strong objection from her parents.

She was apparently tortured mentally and physically several times by her parents for moving around with Salim, but to no avail.

On July 11, she eloped with Salim without saying anything to her parents, converted to Islam and got married in a local mosque before finally registering the marriage in a city court.

The very next day, she sent their marriage documents to her parents by post.

``On July 12, her father Kanubhai Barot lodged a complaint of illegal confinement against Salim with us and we started search operations,`` said Inspector of Sabarmati police station, P S Mehra.

She was found on August 6 and police took her to Sabarmati police station from where she was sent to the Women`s Home in Odhav, run by the state government.

``But surprisingly, her parents managed to get her from the Home without any instructions from us or any court order, which is something queer,`` Mehra said.

Bharti was then brought to the Hindu Mahasabha office in Raipur by her parents for a ``purification`` (Shuddhikaran) ceremony that was supposed to take place on Thursday afternoon in the presence of Mahasabha activists and Dashrath Patel.

``Before the function, she was asked by Dashrath to take a bath in the Mahasabha office bathroom, where she ultimately set herself ablaze,`` said DCP (zone-III), R D Makadiya.

When asked about how Bharti had managed to get kerosene and matchsticks in the bathroom of the Mahasabha office, Makadiya only said: ``We have to check.``

Local residents, however, said they did not hear any screaming or smell anything burning. Police are suspicious as the area where the Mahasabha office is located is very crowded.

``We will find out after the forensic examination and post mortem report,`` said Makadiya.

Meanwhile, her father, Kanubhai, known as a VHP activist, showed no remorse over the incident. ``She did it as per her own will,`` he said.

Secretary of VHP, Karnavati city, Jaideep Patel said: ``Perhaps she committed suicide because of tortures by the Muslim boy and his friends. Muslims here have been creating lot of problems with Hindu girls.``

But, he declined from adding more about the incident, saying: ``We are acquiring details.``

Khadia police has also registered a case following the ``suicide``, city police sources said. The Commissioner of Police, P C Pande, also visited the spot on Thursday evening.

The dead body of the victim has been sent for post mortem, police sources said.

Aeisha :

here is a link to suleikha.com, where the following article has been posted. Read and comment.

http://www.sulekha.com/philosophy/messages/30785.html

Excerpts from this article : (btw its a muslim writer here)

In The Revival Of The Religious Sciences (importance of the references go to [2]) Ghazali defines the woman`s role:

- She should stay at home and get on with her spinning

- She can go out only in emergencies.

- She must not be well-informed nor must she be communicative with her neighbors and only visit them when absolutely nece-ssary.

- She should take care of her husband and respect him in his presence and his absence and seek to satisfy him in everything. [3.1] [6]

- She must not leave her house without his permission and if given his permission she must leave secretly.

- She should put on old clothes and take deserted streets and alleys, avoid markets, and make sure that a stranger does not hear her voice, her footsteps, smell her or recognize her.

- She must not speak to a friend of her husband even in need.

- Her sole worry should be her ``al bud`` (reproductive organs) her home as well as her prayers and her fast (starvation for Allah).

- If a friend of her husband calls when her husband is absent she must not open the door nor reply to him in order to safeguard her ``al bud``.

- She should accept what her husband gives her as sufficient sexual needs at any moment.

- She should be clean and ready to satisfy her husband`s sexual needs at any moment.

The great theologian then warns all men to be careful of women for their ``guile is immense and their mischief is noxious; they are immoral and mean spirited``.

Like a true Mus-lim cleric Ghazali states ``It is a fact that all the trials, misfortunes and woes which befall men come from women``. [3.2]

In his Book of Counsel for Kings, Ghazali sums up all that a woman has to endure because of Eve`s misbehavior in the Garden of Eden:

``When Eve ate fruit which He had forbidden to her from the tree in Paradise, the Lord, be He praised, cursed women with eighteen punishments:

-menstruation;

- childbirth;

- separation from mother and father and marriage to a stranger;

- pregnancy;

- not having control over her own person;

- a le-sser share in inheritance; (one half of the male as per the * * * * *)

- her liability to be divorced and inability to divorce;

- its being lawful for men to have four wives, but for a woman to have only one husband;

- the fact that she must stay secluded in the house;

- the fact that she must keep her head covered inside the house;

- the fact that two women`s testimony has to be set against the testimony of one man;

- the fact that she must not go out of the house unle-ss accompanied by a near relative;

- the fact that men take part in Friday and feast day prayers and funerals while women do not;

- disqualification for ruler ship and judgeship;

- the fact that merit has one thousand components, only one of which is attributable to women, while 999 are attributable to men;

- the fact that if women are profligate they will be given twice as much torment as the rest of the community at the Resurrection Day;

- the fact that if their husbands die they must observe a waiting period of four months and ten days before remarrying;

This is the proof. Maybe you wanna write to the writer to tell him that he has written a baseless thing. But I doubt it would be on print media!

Bijli the wise

[Hindu girl, 19, commits suicide after marrying Muslim]

You should be talking. Islam is the most hateful religion of all.

IT DOES NOT ALLOW MUSLIM GIRLS TO MARRY HINDU MEN. NO QUESTIONS ASKED. THAT IS WHAT I CALL MEDIEVAL BARBARIANISM.

Hindu girl committed suicide. Muslim girls will be killed by their family members for marrying Hindu men. Do you understand that difference?

Aeisha :

First of all I am a Pakistani Muslim, lived in karachi all my life. So as far as being male chauvinistic patronizing muslim hating is concerned, u are highly mistaken. I was just pointing out the facts in our society, if u do belong to this society, that is.

Do not be offended by what I say, since they are not pointed towards you. They are pointed towards the society we live in. You probably havent observed half the issues men have with women, and legitimizing them through means of religion is quite crap. If you do not beleive the problems, please read a few of Shandana Minhas`s articles, they might give you a better perspective.

I do not hate the prohpets nor the religion, nor the book. What I do not like on the other hand is misinterpretations through the time that occured, and the fact that we stick to such things. I am educated, I think you are educated, most people on this site are educated, then why not move on to build towards a better society. Religious rules do apply, but if something like what Imam Ghazali has written is accepted generally, then I dont think we are doing a good job of understanding islams true meaning. Equality of men and women which is there in the spirit, is completely demeaned.

As far as what hindus do to their women, they know better than us, at least the educated ones, or so i hope for those women. Religion wise both are not wrong in principles, but wrong in how peoplle misinterpret it to their agenda. In both caes this is happening.

Let them take care of their own problems, in the meantime lets concentrate on our own!

Vaneeza 122

[your sources for this information are...?]

Contradict my facts, not my sources.

[talking pretty big aren`t we? ]

Just talking plain.

[Imam Al-Ghazali didn`t start making a statement about any religious matter until he had memorized 12000 pages of religious literature and assuming you got your information from some website or an article which just like you quoted no sources]

Again, contradict my facts, not my sources. What al-gazebo memorized it not my concern. You can memorize a 24000 pages of al-gazebo and will be no better.

[i can only trust every word you say.]

Good.

[i`m fortunately stupid and brainwashed unlike the lucky girls in playboy who get to prance about in thongs i`m stuck here acting like a real human...tch tch tch..]

Speak for yourself. Nobody starts filling the heads of girls in the west to go to playboy like your heads are filled with junk five times a day from the moment you are born. Very few girls end up in playboy. In your case, very few end up sane.

[i mean you wanna talk about sterotypes boy you go right ahead and call every muslim woman a burqa clad idiot]

NOt every muslim girls are burqa clad idiots. But at least now I know there is one.

[cuz that just makes the rest of the women equally idiotic sluts]

Not call other women sluts. They dont defened al-stupido.

[so u watch what you say cuz u aren`t making very smart statements here]

I am not making comments. I asked that other sister you have if she believed all that junk her hero wrote. Too difficult to understand under that burqa?

[and i`m hoping we both know here that those two extremes are equally stupid..]

They are not equal extremes. What you have been brainwshed with tells you so.

[but its okay i won`t expect too much of you..don`t wanna pressure the ol gray matter now]

Glad your gray matter still works under that burqa. If it does, tell me do you believe that junk?

I know. You wont answer. You cant. You have been brainwashed.

AAmir/AeishA/Bapu/Shah/Bijli

OK here is some more Poirot stuff. As you know we are old acquaintances.... is there a reason why you write under 5 new names? I presume you don`t realise how glaring and obvious it is.

And what happened to the good old rusted car? I don`t see it any longer - junked it, have you?