Chowk, Jay, a Ditch and I

dear hobbyty:

You write: ``By the way, have you given any thought to the ``ought Vs ``is`` as sources of understanding morality?``

Actually, have been trying to crystallize my thoughts on the question in the time i can snatch between work and other responsibilities. (not everyone is as yourself and ylh to be living in a world of 48-hr days :)) Please expect a reply to your last (slightly patronizing) post in a couple of days.

By the way, ``Sad``? Why? I have never backed down from calling a spade a spade, though I like to think I give myself a fair chance to hear all sides of an issue first.

rgds,

PM

P.S. Am plowing through ``Quran, Muslim, Faith and Ijtehad and Understanding``. Makes interesting, if incredibly dense, reading.

YET ANOTHER REASON

For the ex-military men, kashmir is a low cost war, for the card carrying memeber of manesty, it is a humn rights issue, for the religious, it is a jihadic war, for the jinnaists it is continuation of TNT. This is a new one for the farmers of pakistan, it is a question of water and survival. from dawn of today

Kashmir and Pakistan`s survival

Some intellectuals have articulated the view that if the country has done without Kashmir during the last 54 years, what is the point of insisting that it is the core dispute in our relations with India?

If the intention behind the suggestion is to settle for the LOC as boundary, the question is can India be trusted as the upper riparian of the Jhelum and the Indus, given the experience of Bangladesh in the context of Farrukha Barrage? And what about the Wullar Barrage project which the Indians almost half constructed on the Jhelum river near Srinagar and which was demolished by the freedom-fighters in the early days of the current armed struggle.

Under the Indus Basin Treaty, India has the right to construct storage upto thousand acre-feet on the three rivers and their tributaries. In the garb of Tulbul navigational project, she started constructing a barrage with four doors, the first with a capacity to store 10,000, the second 50,000, the third 100,000 and the fourth 200,000.

Thus the storage of water in Mangla during monsoons could be prevented and Pakistan flooded whenever it suited India to do so. Given her track-record of resiling from solemn commitments made in the UN Security Council to allow a fair plebiscite in Kashmir and reaffirming this position seven years later in 1957 as also the failure to implement the agreement to hand over the Beri Buri enclave to the former East Pakistan, it is difficult to predict her behaviour, despite written agreements, at any future date. This is one big reason why all her small neighbours feel uneasy about her.

Reverting back to the relevance of Kashmir in the context of Pakistan`s survival, one should bear in mind that both Tarbela and Mangla are built on rivers which come from occupied Kashmir, and in their absence most of Pakistan would be a desert, plunged in darkness. All this underscores the imperative of settling the dispute in a reasonable way.

A.H. SUHARWARDY

Hi Yasser,

I am sorry to state, but the PAF indeed lost 1971 very badly . infact in explaining this fact I am reminded of US secretary of state Dean Rusk who wrote after his 1963 trip to South Asia: ``Fear, distrust and hatred of India means that we cannot rely on Pakistan to act rationally and in what we think would be its own interests.``

Hey listen you lost 1971, big time . IAF won 1971 big time . They did everything that was expected of them .

1965 was the only time, I can say without a doubt, that had Pakistan got it`s tactics right, it indeed could have pulled it off .

But after 1965, the disparity in power structure`s between India and the Pakistan has only grown . That is why you guys pulled of 1965 but could not do anything in Kargil in a strategic sense .

Today your country is exporting terrorism to half of the world, are being ruled by a nut-case .

I have seriously come to believe that India and Pakistan are indeed 2 totally diffrent nations . I could say India has more in common with Vietnam than Pakistan . Pakistan is in the super league consisting of Afganistan, Iran, Iraq ......

Basically the brain dead region`s of the world .

If people like you aspire to be a PM, I really pity you chaps.....

Gotta go and read Darwin, something went awfully wrong in the land of the pure .

@@VICKY_iyer}}

Dost Mittar

Dear Dost, Please read and comment on Sarwar post#1689.

I feel this is an important post for you to read. I would very much appreciate your comments.

Drumz:

What is your reason for wanting to do bodily harm to whomever?

Re wishful thinking:

It`s education not wishful thinking.

Serial killers, pedophiles, wife beaters?

You asked for an opinion about persons who rejected religious pluralism - and acid throwers - not all these killers, wife beaters and such.

Anyway - how would I deal with them? I`d let the legal process handle them.

AAmir

It is better you aim for greater and greater foolishness. Trying to sound reasonable only displays how pathetic you are.

Re: tahmed, #457 (also, zabed, #458)

You are right, tahmed. I`m sadder still for what you just told me. It is beyond me why anyone would judge the other based entirely on his religion. I know some extremely nice Jewish people. I always judge a person based on his decency and civility, not his religion or what he has to say (but, importantly, ``how`` he says it.) Besides, I hold fast to the philosophy that ``don`t treat someone the way you do not want to be treated as.`` Why Ahmadis would treat the others the way they themselves do not want to be treated as is a question only they can answer. You should have asked this question from that Ahmadi.

Re: Zafar, #455

``...but as an Indian, let me invite you to continue to point out things in India which need improvement.``

Zafar, if I had time, or that deep an interest in India, I would do that. But, as of now, I have neither. To me, India is just another country. Besides, I don`t hate India such that I point out every little thing that is wrong with its society or its religion. India`s problems should be sorted out by the Indians, and Pakistan`s should be left to the Pakistanis.

India to verify

NEW DELHI: India on Monday said it wasverifying reports of Afghanistan’s Ambassador to India, Massood Khalili along with Opp chief Ahmed Shah Masood being wounded when suicide bombers, posing as TV journalists, triggered an explosion in Takhar province. “We have seen the reports. We are verifying them,” an External Affairs Ministy spokesperson said in New Delhi. — PTI

//That is a clear indication that india is planning to support another station in afghanistan for the jihadists of pakistan to board their flight to heaven. To pack the one percent pak poulation ofjihadists through kashmir is becoming increasingly difficult.

Godot

``But that Jay pointing out Ahmadia Mosque smacks of hypocracy; it is akin to a pot calling the kettle black. That`s all.``

There you go again. The important point was that distruction of, of late several, ahmadia `temples` is a letter to the editor topic in the liberal dawn. In india, one mosque demolished a decade ago is a prime time topic, even now.

This is a qualitative diffrence, obliquely linked to the laws of pakistan, blasphemy laws. One word is enough to sent a kafir to prison, people know that, but is there a law for distruction of kafir temples. Like the k for kafir it is a wider social value enshrined in each law of the country.

A legal system that validates and approves honour killing, it has to implicitly approve sectarian killing, and that is why the karachi killings go unchecked. The entitre society, including the police and law wnforcement people believe that individual killing another is legal in the case of women, then why not men against men.

So back to the original topic, even though you dismiss the ahmadia temple demolition as a small event, the fact that it is considered normal as a letter to the editor at par with complainta about faulty phones and aircraft delays is indicative of a example of a distinctive value system.

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sigalph235 1702

Perfectly said.

People use long talk and big words as seductive devices. They appear to be saying things without saying anything at all. Worse things is, it is the hiding of snake oil in words that makes me mad.

People should be honest in what they want. If people buy your argument, fine. If they dont, dont use words to deceive them.

Said many times. Someone with guns is less dangerous than these people who pretend to sell reason and distribute fanaticism.

Reply Mr Hamidm #1697

“...these extra dots were for zafar .....”

Thank you Mr Hamidm. I am honoured.

“ actually zafar mian, there is a science behind the dots - each dot represents a forty three micro-second pause in all mental activity, and five or more dots implies a total disconnect fom the subject of the preceeding sentence .......“

Jee haan, jee haan, it is all starting to make some sort of (dotty) sense now. Er…what about the other marks of punctuation? (I suspect that the ampersand especially holds many such mysteries. Is this true?)

“.......and so on ....”.

Bilkul sahi!

“and then i wonder why my wife and urstruly hate me ........

Bhabhiji should simply insist that you stop communicating with her using only email. Or do breakfast conversations go something like:”Please pass the DOT DOT DOT toast, dear DOT DOT DOT DOT DOT Chairman Mao absolutely betrayed the Chinese People’s hopes and trust!”?

As for the other, well dottiness calls to dottiness, as light to light and dark to dark. I suggest that you write for that audience using all caps.

Zafar

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Sattar2

Was delighted to read yur post and wanted to express to you somehow, that the content of your opinion does not really have bearing on whether you are a Ahamdi or Qaidiani.

I would alos like to offer a comment on the Madrissah system. This is an excellent system. The system is not the problem, the content of circulum is not the problem, it the the content of the Islam that is being taught that is a problem. I am confident that we will overcome these narrow and unuseful view of Islamic knowledge. It will be slow - but everything wothwhile is slow and difficult. The important thing is make more and more people aware, to pull them out of their moral coma.

PM

Sad - but as long as it makes sense and is in keeping with the spirit of inquiry - what choice do we have?

By the way, have you given any thought to the ``ought Vs ``is`` as sources of understanding morality?

Reply Dost-Mittar #: 456

“ [Lahorian Di Hatti]

Are you, by any chance, referring to `Kake Da Hotel` famous for its meat. The little stall in Connaught Place used to be a favourite before Karim came along. It was also referred to in an old Merchant-Venice Film, Householder.”

That’s the one! I hope it’s still there - it’s been some time since I’ve been to it.

Zafar