Chowk, Jay, a Ditch and I

MONO CULTURE AND PROGRESS,

``Allow me to relate a story I first heard in 1988 of a Japanese and American discussing the future. The Japanese said his country had caught up with the US in one field after another, and was destined to go ahead. He predicted that Korea, Singapore and several other Asian countries would also overtake the US. The American grinned and said, Not a chance: Our Asians will always beat your Asians``

Re: bijli

``FOR 1000 YEARS ,ISLAMIC CIVILZATION CONTRIBUTED TO SCIENCE & KNOWLEDGE ,WHICH WAS THE TOTAL EXTENT MANKIND KNEW AT THAT TIME WAS KNOWN BY ISLAMIC PEOPLE.``

Even that is a bloody lie. I can start rattling off umpteen scientists who were neither Muslim nor part of any Islamic civilization who have made huge contributions to science.

``The end of glory days ,yes were 400 yrs.agO with british, gaining from ``ThE rennaisence`` ,which was only possible because of islamic love for scholarship ,support financially ,& koranic dictum``

I don`t undertand what you are trying to say. But I hope you`re not suggesting that Islam had anything to do with the Renaissance in Europe!

Scout behanji, what makes you think Indians are not introspecting? If you say you are doing that Indians are doing a much better job of it.

For example

AID India

Asha for Education

Child Relief and You

are just some examples. You think we are not introspecting? What makes you think Indians are deluding themselves about India being a first world country. Don`t worry our perceptions are firmly rooted in reality. We know India is a third world country and we know there is a lot to be done.

Just because we take pride in our accomplishments doesn`t mean we are deluding ourselves.

dear aNny....please always stay young. its great to be young and when u grow old, its the one thing that u will miss the most. the best thing about being young and naive is the innocence that comes along with it.

please always stay this way. we could do with a few more people like u. hope god helps u make a speedy recovery.

devkant.

p.s. aNny said it once, i say it again. please don`t turn this board into a bathroom like the way alia`s board was turned.

dear aNny....please always stay young. its great to be young and when u grow old, its the one thing that u will miss the most. the best thing about being young and naive is the innocence that comes along with it.

please always stay this way. we could do with a few more people like u. i hope god helps u make a speedy recovery.

devkant.

p.s. aNny said it once, i say it again. please don`t turn this board into a bathroom like the way alia`s board was turned.

Ref scout #: 171

[don`t you think you need to take off those rose colored glasses?

sure India has a higher literacy rate, but the fact remains it`s still a third world country.]

Third world? I think I have called it third-rate in writing on Chowk.

I am vain enough not to wear glasses of any kind, much to the chagrin of my contemporaries.

Ref MaheshG:

``...are just some examples. You think we are not introspecting``

Some people are introspecting but not enough. There are about 2 million Indians and Indian-Americans here and have the highest family income among all immigrant groups (

MaheshG #176,

That`s great, it really is. I`m happy for you guys (sincerely).

Now could you tell Indians like gymnosophist and Jay to lose their patronizing of Pakistanis?

We don`t need it.

They are in no position to hold such arrogance anyway.

#175

Saxsena,

``I don`t undertand what you are trying to say. But I hope you`re not suggesting that Islam had anything to do with the Renaissance in Europe!``]

Sax,

Before we lose where we started our discussion & move too far away from my initial posts particularly last one DONT forget what i have said ,``it is a team work with no one nation or race or religion or ethnicity could have done without the others,``

When Islam was at its zenith Europe was in its DARK ages.ALL scienceses were translated into Arabic .Physicianes & surgeons like Abu senna (avicenna distorterd name) Al Rhazzes surgeon had early hosptals in Baghdad ,Spain & constantinipole.The detractors blame muslims of burning libraries WHEREAS FACT IS THAT CARDOVA HAD THE BEST LIBRARY OF THE TIME.

IF ARABIC TRANSLATION OF SCIENCE UPTO THEN HAD NOT EXISTED ANATOMY TO ASTRONOMY TO GYNAECOLOGY TO GEOGRAPHY TO ALGEBRA TO CHEMISTRY AS IT EXISTED UPTO AT THAT TIME COULD NOT HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE INTO LATIN & LATER INTO ENGLISH.

Even the benefactors of Rennaisence dont deny a seprate period under islmmmic period during which science & learning flourished with patronage ,financial assistence & direct contributions in all fields of learnings.

I DOUBT YOUR EDUCATION ,IF YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT RENNAISENCE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE WITHOUT THE EXISISTING KNOWLEGE IN ALL SCIENCESES .DURING THE DARK EUROPEAN AGES.Just go & see the spleandour of pre Rennaisence era & read the HISTORY of science

AFTER rennaisence they all begin in ARABIC period.Camera word is `kamrah` derived from arabic.Avicenna physician is ABU SENNA ,& so forth.

I am aware of Sanskrit being there & early Mathematics being in existence even before 7th century ,but since all that were incorporated into ARABIC text ,many european just know it coming from Islamic era as Al Geber for algebra,astronomical names,etc etc. etc.

#

Saxsena

May be b/c of general prejudice leading to intellectual blindness ,like Mr.Arun Shourie ,who has written a distorted transliteration of koran.most indians deny anything fromthe islamic period .BUT ANY WHITE ANGLOSAXON EDUCATED WOULD TEACH YOU THAT RENNAISENCE WAS REAWAKENING OF EUROPE FROM THE TRANSLATION OF ISLAMIC PERIODS IN ARABIC.In fact they are more aware of ARABIC than SANSKRIT AS MANUSCRIPT OF MEDIEVAL PERIOD.

Author of the Quran does not know Mathematics

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

By Dr. Zakir Naik, Islamic Voice, April 2001

Question: According to Arun Shourie there is a mathematical error in the Quran. In chapter 4 verses 11 and 12 when you add up the different parts of inheritance given to the heirs, it is more than one. Therefore the author of the Quran does not know mathematics.

Answer: The Quran mentions about inheritance in many places, in

Surah Al Baqarah-Chapter 2 verse 180

Surah Al Baqarah-Chapter 2 verse 240

Surah Al Nisa-Chapter 4 verses 7 to 9

Surah Al Nisa-Chapter 4 verses19 and 33

Surah Al Maidah-Chapter 5 verses 105 and 108

Regarding the share of inheritance it is clearly given in Surah Nisa-chapter 4 verse 11, 12 and 176.

Let us examine the verses quoted by Arun Shourie, i.e. Surah Nisa chapter 4 verses 11 and 12:

Allah (swt) (thus) directs you as regards your childrens (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half.

For parents, a sixth share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased left brothers (or sisters) the mother has a sixth. (The distribution in all cases is) after the payment of legacies and debts. Ye know not whether your parents or your children are nearest to you in benefit. These are settled portions ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

In what your wives leave, your share is a half, if they leave no child; but if they leave child, ye get a fourth; after payment of legacies and debts. In what ye leave, their share is a fourth, if ye leave no child; but if ye leave a child, they get an eighth; after payment of legacies and debts. [Al-Quran 4:11-12]

Islam explains the law of inheritance in great detail. The broad and basic outline is given in the Quran and the minute details are given in the Ahadith i.e. the tradition and sayings of the Prophet (Pbuh).

A person can spend his full life only on the research of the Islamic law of inheritance with its various permutations and combinations. Arun Shourie expects to know the law only by superficially reading two verses of the Quran without knowing the criteria.

It is similar to a person who wants to solve a mathematical equation but does not know the basic rule of mathematics, i.e. BODMAS which says that in a mathematical equation, irrespective of which mathematical sign appears first, you will first solve BODMAS: 1st Brackets Off, 2nd Division, 3rd Multiplication, 4th Addition and 5th Subtraction. If Arun Shourie does not know mathematics and first does multiplication then subtraction, then brackets off, then division and finally addition, the answer that he will obtain is bound to be wrong.

Similarly, when the Quran mentions the law of inheritance in Surah Nisa chapter 4 verses 11 and 12, even though the childrens share is mentioned first and then that of the parents and spouses, according to the law of inheritance in Islam after paying off the debts and liabilities first, the share is given to the spouses and the parents depending on whether the deceased has left children or not, and whatever portion of wealth is remaining is divided between the sons and the daughters according to their respective shares.

So where does the question arise of the total coming to more than one? So it is not Allah who does not know mathematics but it is Arun Shourie himself who is ignorant about mathematics.



http://www.themodernreligion.com/index2.html

#168

[``Banjara----``like you, I too have visited cow belt and the south and the east and the west except Kashmir(I

didnt want to be a number in the daily crossfire:)

Regards.

Ps: The people in the cow belt are the sweetest.``]]



Banjara,

Dont lie .India govt.doesnt give visa to go to KASHMIR,to Pakistan nationals so your reason could not have been ``crossfire``!!!

Such braad visa from East to west ,north to south also is unheard of to pakistan nationals.

Banjara ,you are an Indian who CLAIMS to be Pakistani .!Not that it matters to anyone except you .Stop pretending.Its also a fact Indian or Pakistans passport /nationality isnt worth the paper it is printed on!

Re: Jay, #153

``he maintained tht pakistanis dont like external criticisms. May be it is uniquely pakistani.``

- No, Jay, it is universal. The Indians are notorious for rejecting external criticism.

``May be in dealig with corruption probably pakistan is several decades behind kerala, pl note, not-india as I do not know much about it.``

- You maybe right. Do I take it you are a Keralite and not an ``Indian``? By the way, being in the technology profession, I`ve come across many Kelariltes and, as a result, I have developed a lot of respect for them. You are one of them.

``It is difiicult, but it is possible to seperate the messenger from the message.``

- Indeed it is. I already have separated you, the messenger, from the message. I think many Pakistanis at Chowk who understand where you are coming from have also done that.

``May be you can find hope in anNY and YLH, they appear to be blinkered, like the jihadists.``

- They are a far cry from the Jihadis. I truly believe that. The word ``appear`` is the key word in your sentence.

``They are no iconoclasts, that is what is needed.``

- I believe they are. One has to look beyond the surface. I do, however,I agree with you 100 percent that iconoclasim is what is needed among the youth of Pakistan. I also think that both anNY and YLH are missunderstood by you. As the saying goes, Jay, you can catch them with honey; vinegar is not going to do the trick.

Re: gymnosophist, #170

You are babbling. Not worth my time. Sorry.

Bijli:#183

``Uss ghairat e Naheed kee hur taan hai deepak

`Bijli` cee `karrak` jaaey hai,`andaaz` to dekho``

``miray vatan teree jannat mein aayngay ikk din``

Kashmiri song.

ATTACK!----Never educate!the adversary. Intellectualism & academicness never resolved anything.Those are for morning after.

WASSALAAM.

Re: Bijli

Only a bonafide idiot would deny the contribution of Arabs (not Islam) to science and medicine and in the re-awakening of Europe in the 1500s. The more important point however is that they have not done much since then - have they? And neither have the ``Muslim Scientists`` - apart from theroies to explain the nature of angels and jinns and proposing rocket designs based on Rasool Allah`s mirage to the heavens. I can think of Abdus Salam - but wait - he is not a Muslim - right?

Bapu # 184

Are you really that dense? Heard of double nationality? Pathetic...

Regards

Bong_dongs, I agree. We are not doing enough introspection.

If each one of us donates $10 that itself amounts to $20 million.