Top Ten South Asian Pieces of Music

Re:Eklavya#136

I totally agree with you that classical music is the joint heritage of both hindus and muslims in the subcontinent. The reason it is so beautiful is that it has been nurtured and improved by everyone. Any attempt to give it a sectrian label is absolutely foolish. While, hindus invented the fundamentals of classical music, muslims took it to another level by developing new forms, inventing new instruments, providing royal patronage and most importantly, giving us some of the greatest performers of classical music.

In India we have had a renaissance in classical music. Organizations like SPIC-MACAY and Gandharva Mahavidyalaya have contributed tremendously to spread awareness of classical music among common folks. I have heard that present generation Pakistanis don`t value classical music very much, which is truly a tragedy.

Re:SameerJB#113

Actually the Bade Ghulam Ali song in Mugal-e-Azam (Prem Jogan Ban Ke) is in Raag Sohni rather than Darbari. The seduction scene of Dilip Kumar and Madhubala was shot earlier. Khan saheb wanted to view the scene while singing for it. Hence his voice modulation is timed closely with the actual movements on the screen. It is truly a masterpiece.

An interesting thing about classical music is that different raags remind you of various seasons, emotions and even time of day. Raag Darbari is a beautiful raag that was actually created by Tansen. When you hear it, you can feel the regal atmosphere for which it is intended. Bade Ghulam Ali has some excellent recordings in Darbari. By the way, if you are interested in classical music, try out the website www.musicindiaonline.com for some indian classical audio clips of various ustads.

Reply Nasah #134

Nasah

You made a very reasonable response to a perhaps less than reasonable (but how is it tantric?) dummy spit.

But:

“Dhurpud is of course well developed - but it’s slow, monotonous, and dull -- without much improvisations –“

Admittedly Dhrupad is much less easy to listen to than Khayal because there are no words to “hang” your attention on. It is also much slower in the way it unfolds a raga. But it is truly lovely if one actually gives it one’s full attention – not monotonous or dull at all! Give it another listen and another chance.

(Hmmm….Khayal is the “muzak” version of Dhrupad…possible discussion topic?)

“ and by the way -- the ONLY exponents of Dhurpud in its true form in India --unfortunately for you -- are still the one and ONLY Dagar brothers -- the much Hindutva hated -- inevitable Muslims”

Blast from the past! I have wonderful memories of the Dagar brothers performances in Delhi.

They also lived on the top floor of a house I used to walk past every day on my way to and from the school bus stop – and quite often I could hear them practicing. I had no idea what a privilege that was, otherwise I would have stopped and listened more often than I did. (But what can I say – frivolous from early childhood, that’s me.)

“ – looks like you can’t escape the Moosulmans – anyway.”

But who would want to, since we are all so charming and lovely, no?

Best regards,

Zafar

Reply to #134

nasah writes:

``Dhurpud is of course well developed - but it’s slow, monotonous, and dull -- without much improvisations -- ``

It may be, to the casual, uncultivated ear but not to those who understand and know. There are Dhrupad lovers aplenty who have no training in or formal knowledge of music. Khayal has its own set of technique and aesthetic and Dhrupad has its own way. To elevate one at the expense of the other is silly not to mention a reflection of the protagonists musical development, the lack of it to be sure.

nasah:

``and by the way -- the ONLY exponents of Dhurpud in its true form in India --unfortunately for you -- are still the one and ONLY Dagar brothers -- the much Hindutva hated -- inevitable Muslims - looks like you can’t escape the Moosulmans - anyway.``

I doubt the Hindutva fellows would hate Dagars. The Dagars sing praises of Shambho-Mahadeva almost everyday through their Dhrupads. But more to the point, your assertions that the Dagars are the ``ONLY`` exponents of ``true`` Dhrupad (whatever

that means) is plain wrong. The Mallicks and the Tewaris of Darbhanga (Bihar) are the other major families around, their descendents very much active even today. There is also the Talwandi branch dhrupadiyas (some of them in Pakistan, by the way). Please study a little before you peck away at your keyboard.

Reply to #135

Eklayva writes:

``I am no musicologist but it seems to me that the Indian classical music is one of the grandest, noblest, and proudest achievements of Hindu Muslim

commingling.``

This is an oft-repeated sweet-nothing. I would say, it is a product of Indian civilization. That some of the practitioners in recent times have been Muslims is incidental. Indian music is a long history of accretion (a veru Hindu characteristic) building upon tradition, imbibing an idea here and there from elsewhere and so on. The topic is too large to be covered in a few sound bytes.

Reply to #143

wadera writes:

``Tantralogician, (in post #131) you really must READ before going off like a blunderbuss in a Yosemite cartoon. Here is what I said: ``He came to Pakistan, his land of dreams, and lived in LaluKhet til he died.`` Where does this say anything about his lack of love for Delhi?``

But you mentioned the Pakistan as the ``land of his dreams`` as if that is something he dreamt of and aspired for. Do a search on Google groups (http://groups.google.com) and type in the keywords ``Bundu`` and ``Dhar``.

Reply to #144

Zafar Al-Talib writes:

``As opposed to living like Muslims? How? What’s the difference? I don`t think that there is one.``

Point taken, Zafar. I ought to have worded my sentence better.

Wassalaam,

tantralogician

tantralogician:Tantric

Excuse meeeeeeeee.

Isn`t it OBVIOUS that “Indian” ragas are HINDU`S creations. Did I mean Dhurpad -- before the Muslims -- was developed by the Christians? What insecurity!

When I used the term Muslims polishing Dhurpud into Kheyal -- I was implying the term ``Muslim`` in relation to supposed influence of the Arab and Iranian musical system on Indian music -- suggested by another interactor.

Dhurpud is of course well developed - but it’s slow, monotonous, and dull -- without much improvisations -- and by the way -- the ONLY exponents of Dhurpud in its true form in India --unfortunately for you -- are still the one and ONLY Dagar brothers -- the much Hindutva hated -- inevitable Muslims – looks like you can’t escape the Moosulmans – anyway.

cheers

Reply Tantralogician #132

Reply to #121

“…most of the great Indian ustads have never found it a problem acknowledging their Hindu roots and the Hindu antecedents of their music. In fact, several of them, eg. Alladiya Khan, Alladdin Khan etc, lived much like Hindus.”

As opposed to living like Muslims? How? What’s the difference? I don`t think that there is one.

“Which is not surprising since the gharanedar musicians typically came from a lineage where at the top of the line you would find a Hindu convert.”

Um…that’s true of most South Asian Muslims, actually.

“Someone also mentioned that it is hard to find classical music courses in India and Pakistan. It is eminently possible that that situation obtains in Pakistan, the cultural and moral Siberia of our times.”

Mashallah, Tantralogician, you have a wonderful way with words.

Zafar

PS Your assumption that all South Asian Muslims who say something you don’t agree with are espousing a Pakistani viewpoint does your argument no favours.

Tantralogician, (in post #131) you really must READ before going off like a blunderbuss in a Yosemite cartoon. Here is what I said:

``He came to Pakistan, his land of dreams, and lived in LaluKhet til he died.``

Where does this say anything about his lack of love for Delhi? I talked with him and he expressed a deep love for Delhi. He also expressed his hopes and dreams for Pakistan. It is a tragedy that we in Pakistan did not value him as we should have, and in fact there are many other musicians/artistes TODAY, that we in Pakistan do not value. I consider these treatments criminal. Ustad Bundoo Khan lived a poor man in the slums of LaluKhet. He had to feel bitterness at his treatment, yet he only expressed love for Pakistan. So don`t go giving me any crap about fantasies/schmantasies. I am angry enough at the way we treat our artistes. Besides, this is a MUSIC forum. Keep it this way. I want to hear about MUSIC, not another mudslinging match. I really have no patience for it.

Asif Naqshabandi:

I agree with you on the quality of Iranian movie. IMO, however, Iranian movies do not really portray an Islamic ethos. The movies are about day to day lives of ordinary people, and yes, these Iranian movie directors tend to find poetry in everyday situations. I haven`t seen an Iranian movie which is religious, at least not any which have become popular,

Re: Reply #: 127

shima,

I agree with what you said about Madani though i have not seen the sitcom that you mentioned. The only British things we get to watch in USA have to do with the royalty. Quite a lot about Diana. Also, sometimes back, they were showing this British comedy ``Are you being served``. I thought it was hilarious.

Sridhar

Re:Reply #: 124

ahmed Madani,

Just call me Sridhar. I am older than you but in USA everyone calls everyone else by his/her first name.

I do not know much about IT. Someone from Pakistan on Chowk can help you with names of training institutes in Pak. Correspondence course for IT does not sound like a good idea to me. Anyway, good luck to you. Do not worry about your English. There are lots of people in USA who do not know any english and are still surviving here.

Sridhar

re: #124

No wisecracks, ok? :)

#130,#131,#132

TANTROLIGICIAN

Is your nick inspired logic from this smut?

TANTRIC RITUAL

from fireplug.net/

Madhuri`s posters burnt by BJP cadre protesting Lajja

Press Trust of India

ANOTHER DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LEADER PAKISTAN & FOLLOWER INDIA:WHATEVER PAKISTAN MAY DO ,INDIA WILL BE LATE COMMER AS ``ME TOO`` shortly there AFTER,proving imitation is the best form of flattery .May the persistence of Pakistani continue to be proven right by none other than the hegemonous neighbour ---BIG BUT DUMBO

Madhuri`s posters burnt by BJP cadre protesting

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Lajja

* * * * * * *

Bhopal, September 3: A group of BJP workers on Monday burnt an effigy of Bollywood film-maker Rajkumar Santoshi and posters of film actress Madhuri Dixit to express their protest against what they described as ``objectionable dialogues`` against Hindu gods and goddesses in Santoshi`s latest movie Lajja.

Police said the BJP workers led by Rameshwar Sharma, leader of the party in the Bhopal municipal corporation, were trying to move towards Raaz Talkies, where Lajja is being screened, when they were stopped in view of prohibitory orders in force because of the monsoon session of the Madhya Pradesh Assembly.

According to BJP workers, Madhuri`s posters were burnt because the ``objectionable dialogues`` against Hindu gods and goddesses were uttered by her in the movie. ``Lajja`` is also being screened at the local Sangam cinema hall, but no demonstration was held there.

This is the second time this year that a demonstration against a Hindi film has been staged in the city. On July 19, activists of the Youth Congress had staged a violent demonstration against Hindi blockbuster Gadar.

Shima,

How could I have missed Ore Majhi! A real gem of a song.

And thank you for that translation. Aren`t those words powerful enough to move a stone?

Now, you are really making me homesick, Shima.

Tantralogician,

I am no musicologist but it seems to me that the Indian classical music is one of the grandest, noblest, and proudest achievements of Hindu Muslim commingling. I know there is an effort by some Hindus to claim everything for Hinduism, and an effort by some Muslims to claim everything for Islam, but is it easy to tell in this fine and perfect blend where one part ends and the other begins? Are such excercise even useful?

BTW, I have never known nasah as a proponent of Pakistani history. He is among the straight shooters.

Shima,

How could I have missed Ore Majhi! A real gem of a song.

And thank you for that translation. Aren`t those words powerful enough to move a stone?

Now, you are really making me homesick, Shima.

Tantralogician,

I am no musicologist but it seems to me that the Indian classical music is one of the grandest, noblest, and proudest achievements of Hindu Muslim commingling. I know there is an effort by some Hindus to claim everything for Hinduism, and an effort by some Muslims to claim everything for Islam, but is it easy to tell in this fine and perfect blend where one part ends and the other begins? Are such excercise even useful?

BTW, I have never known nasah as a proponent of Pakistani history. He is among the straight shooters.

Sridhar,

Reading Madani`s posts can be lot of fun. He sounds like that English Lieutenant from the British sit-com ``Alo Alo``.

Sorry for the digression folks. Keep up posting the music of sub-continent.