Top Ten South Asian Pieces of Music

One day Anjanibai malpekar suddenly lost her voice.
Then she went to excelent doctors but she did not get her excellent voice. Then her well-wisher Mr.Kothare and Mr.Vinayakrao mulgaonkar went to the greate saint sadguru Shree Narayana Maharaj bet, kedgaon dist. pune. And they told above thing to Shree Narayana Maharaj.Then Shree Narayana Maharaj gave some prasad and said, give this to Anjanibai Malpekar.Then both well-wisher came to Anjanibai malpekar.They gave this prasad to Anjanibai Malpekar. And what a Surprise, She get her original voice again. And
Then Anjanibai malpekar went to bet. And take a darshan.
Today I have all the details about This.

AJ,
Im surprised there`s no mention of the legends of Pakistan when you speak about the greatest pieces of music. No Noor Jehan, Iqbal Bano, or Nayyara Noor? That`s really sad, but more disappointing actually. There were many other singers/musicians who gave more to desi music than some you mentioned.
but a nice job overall...
Z

Music must have soul :Kishori Amonkar

By: Narendra Kusnur

December 24,2001

Vocalist Kishori Amonkar is impressed with the packaging of her latest album Sampradaya, specially the accompanying booklet. For her, it`s a very special album because it pays tribute to her mother and guru Mogubai Kurdikar, who passed away in February.

The album, recorded at a concert in London last year, has been released by Sony Nad Navras. It contains the morning raags Alhaiya Bilawal and Jeevanpuri, besides a 15-minute composition in Bhairavi.

The singer will be performing at Juhu`s Iskcon Auditorium tomorrow morning (25.12.2001). Three days before the concert, she talks about her music, her mother and her latest project. Excerpts:

In what specific areas did your mother affect your musical thought?

She taught me how to look at this art, and she told me I was not in the field of entertainment. Rather, she told me this is the art where one can find divinity. I look at this art as a path towards peace.

Though you use the Jaipur-Atrauli gharana as your base, what made you imbibe features of other schools?

I have only widened the premises of the Jaipur gharana. As I continued learning, I realised that this art is emotive. Each raag has a feeling, and I tried to bring this out. To bring more soul into my singing, I introduced new elements. Music has to have soul, because that is the real feeling. I also believe in the universality of music. That`s why I would think beyond one gharana. But my base remains the Jaipur gharana.

Your style is characterised by the use of various kinds of taans like bol-taans and akaar-taans. But what do you feel about the practise of singing sargams, which many other musicians follow?

Indian classical music is not a show of technique. It strictly deals with the world of notes. While singing, one should know what notes one is singing without naming them. Does that answer your question?

A lot of classical music has become gimmicky of late. What`s the reason for that?

Many musicians are thinking of technique more than purpose. And to show their technique, they resort to gimmicks. But a certain mood has to be conveyed in each raag, and by getting gimmicky, one can`t convey that mood.

What factors do you keep in mind while choosing a raag for a concert?

It usually takes me 15 or 20 days to get into focus before a concert. But I have to be in the correct frame of mind. The raag is chosen on the basis of the mood I want to portray, because it`s a challenge to express that mood.

At some concerts, you also render raags like Kukubh Bilawal, Hansakankani and Bhinna Shadja, which many contemporary singers don`t present...

They are known raags, and I don`t know why others aren`t singing them too often. I like them because they are very aesthetic.

Why have you been increasingly using a violin in your concerts?

The person who plays the violin (Milind Raikar) is learning from me and is well-versed with my style. Since he knows what I want, I am happy using it.

Finally, there`s been a lot of talk about how to promote classical music among the younger generation. What are your views on this subject?

I wonder why we have reached a stage where we should promote something beautiful, divine and which gives you peace.

Music, poetry and literature reflect a personal taste and goes back to early stages of a person`s life. However, I could not escape noticing that the selection is tilted towards sad and spiritual songs. In the subcontinent, there has been a long era of tragic songs and tragedy films.

Later on it changed and gave way to violence. The violence was shown as a reaction to injustice. Slowly it is fading away giving in to romantic films.

If you like to survive and come out of natural disaster then you need upbeat songs that can encourage and motivate to come out of the situation. I believe that Jazaba Junoon sung by Junoon is one of the songs that inspires courage. Similarly there are many such songs. The question is whether one wants to come out or stay there.

semipreciousme #209 ``a while back there was a group of flamenco dancers flown in from spain to lahore....man, they had the whole place moving in no time!``

Did I tell you about the cute, slim belly dancers from Turkey that once came to a military camp near Murree as part of a ``Turkish Cultural Exchange Group`` and had the chaps sit in shock as they jumped half-naked on the stage?

stuka...check out `laal meri` by junoon..the beginning is mind blowing.tell me if u like it as much

Reply semipreciousme, scout

The flamenco/kathak connection (relationship) is actually quite phenomenal. Flamenco is the only music form outside of South Asia that I`ve heard of that has a thaal system. Re: Carmen Amaya - if you run across any of her stuff, give it a listen. I`m sure you`d enjoy it.

scout

``Zafar #203,

unfortunately not, though i think Flamenco is one of the most beautiful dance and rhythm combinations in the world besides Kathak.``

......also very infectious.......a while back there was a group of flamenco dancers flown in from spain to lahore....man, they had the whole place moving in no time!

Zafar #203,

unfortunately not, though i think Flamenco is one of the most beautiful dance and rhythm combinations in the world besides Kathak.

http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/

http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/

A.J.Nabi sahib,

If you are in Tajikistan you must be fluent in Farsi as well.

Please look for Cds & tapes by Nashanaas.He is an Afghani who has sung in Urdu,Farsi,and pushto.

Somesay,and I tend to agree,that after Saigal & Begum Akhtar no greater voice has obliged Ghazal as much.

Ahmed Zahir is very good as well.

WASSALAAM.

Every other Punjabi song I hear from Pakistan is written buy S.M. Sadiq and every other Bhangra song in the market is written by Shamsher Sandhu.

Sameer, any words on SM Sadiq, who is this guy?

Shamsher Sandhu is curretnly one of the Editors of second largest Punjabi daily, Punjabi Tribune. He started as a Bollywood reporter telling spicy stories of stars and also used to write short stories. Now he produces music videos and audio on his own. It is rumoured that other writers give him their lyrics which are sung under his name which is entirely possible. Many singers in the past have bought songs and brought them to the market as their own.

Digression to Scout and RSaxena

Are you two Spanish speakers familiar with the singing of Carmen Amaya? Dead and lamented now...but something that appeals to the desi ear (at least to mine), flamenco of course (like so much else, ahem) having its roots in India...

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AnNy

Thanks so much for telling me about that website. Its got some great stuff. I didn`t however find Hassan Jahangir there. He`s not even listed when I scroll down for the artists.

Had a great time listening to Nazia Hassan though. Brought back a flood of memories..

Thanks again

Stuka

P.S. If you do fiND Hassan Jahangir on the site, can you gimme a pointer on hew to get to his stuff..

mannyd #193: There may be many sites where you can listen to punjabi new and old music. I am not much active in listening to music on internet. I think www.sadapunjab.com, www.punjabi.net and www.apnaorg.com have some decent collection of punjabi music. I only listen to internet music when I feel like listening to Rafi or Shamshad Begum`s old Punjabi songs. Sada Punjab had pretty good line-up but recently they are reconctructing their site and it might be a while before they have all the songs. Try www.punjabi.net.

Once I was just curious to know if Mukesh sung some Punjabi songs and if they are available somewhere on the internet but could not find any!

Ref: Neptune # 196

: Tantralogician # 197

Thanks a lot gentlemen. Quite an artist, our poor Nawab. I think Google is the best thing since sliced bread. Thanks again.

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Ref: Neptune # 196

: Tantralogician # 197

Thanks a lot gentlemen. Quite an artist, our poor Nawab. I think Google is the best thing since sliced bread. Thanks again.

Reply to #195

Mannyd writes: ``If you find time, can you shed some light on Wajid Ali Shah please?``

Go to this site and do a search on the keyword ``wajid ali shah``

http://groups.google.com/

tantralogician

Mannyd #194

[If you find time, can you shed some light on Wajid Ali Shah please? Was he the same guy in Prem Chand`s ``Shatranj Ke Khilari`` or somehow related to him?]

Yes indeed one and the same. He was a most curious character who spent his time in the pursuit of arts and women rather than statecraft. However, the art world is thankful for that. He was an accomplished singer, a trained Kathak dancer and a well-known actor. He composed plays as well as shows based on `raas-leela`. He was also the composer of the first opera based on Indian music `Indrasabha`. And of course he has enough songs, thumris and the like to his name to make his name immortal.

Check out this site:

http://www.dhadkan.com/cgi-bin/dhadkan/profiles.cgi?artistID=1238&jnd=C

REF TA321 # 181:

Welcome back TA Sahib.

`` A set of 15 CDs of Lata Mangeshkar. For Rs. 90 each. Great quality. I understand even this is a small fraction of the over 3,000 songs that the Great Lata ...``

A great deal, but what is this talk about Great Lata? First Gandhi, now Lata. If you are not careful about your adjectives, you will become a marked man for the young patriotic platoon faster than you can sing `Ichhak Dana Beechak Dana`.))

Ref Neptune # 60:

Thanks for the info Neptune.

```Babul Mora` is a classic, composed by Wajid Ali Shah, Nawab of Oudh. In your music classes, it is shown as what a Bhairavi thumri should be like. For the last 130 years or so...``

If you find time, can you shed some light on Wajid Ali Shah please? Was he the same guy in Prem Chand`s ``Shatranj Ke Khilari`` or somehow related to him?

In another post you mentioned Mukesh sang ``Dil Jalata Hai``. Agreeed. Some of my other favorite Mukesh songs are: Jiyenge Magar Muskura na sakenge, DO Zulami Naina Hum Pur Zulam, Mujh Ko iss Raat Ki.

Lata should have retired after Pakeezah. She is a mere shadow of her former self, but then she performed ``Jiya Jale`` in Dil Se and still won some kind of award. My all time favourite:

`Mere Sainyaa jee Uterenge Paar Ho` from Uran Khatola. The tune is based on some Raga.

REF TA321 # 181:

Welcome back TA Sahib.

`` A set of 15 CDs of Lata Mangeshkar. For Rs. 90 each. Great quality. I understand even this is a small fraction of the over 3,000 songs that the Great Lata ...``

A great deal, but what is this talk about Great Lata? First Gandhi, now Lata. If you are not careful about your adjectives, you will become a marked man for the young patriotic platoon faster than you can sing `Ichhak Dana Beechak Dana`.))

Ref Neptune # 60:

Thanks for the info Neptune.

```Babul Mora` is a classic, composed by Wajid Ali Shah, Nawab of Oudh. In your music classes, it is shown as what a Bhairavi thumri should be like. For the last 130 years or so...``

If you find time, can you shed some light on Wajid Ali Shah please? Was he the same guy in Prem Chand`s ``Shatranj Ke Khilari`` or somehow related to him?

In another post you mentioned Mukesh sang ``Dil Jalata Hai``. Agreeed. Some of my other favorite Mukesh songs are: Jiyenge Magar Muskura na sakenge, DO Zulami Naina Hum Pur Zulam, Mujh Ko iss Raat Ki.

Lata should have retired after Pakeezah. She is a mere shadow of her former self, but then she performed ``Jiya Jale`` in Dil Se and still won some kind of award. My all time favourite:

`Mere Sainyaa jee Uterenge Paar Ho` from Uran Khatola. The tune is based on some Raga.

tahmed321, ``Couldnt you have downloaded it from Napster? ``

I wish. I don`t have a DSL connection, otherwise I`d have been downloading songs twenty four seven.

Reply #: 190 tahmed321

[``while I am happy just to get CDs for Rs. 90 each from Sadar bazar Rawalpindi...``]

Welcome back to the neighborhood Mr. Rogers!! We eagerly await you ``muffassil roznaamcha`` aka details of you Pindi Yatra. Did you get to see the havoc caused by the floods first hand? Some of my relatives who had businesses in the low lying areas... most large businesses are in the low lying areas... literally lost their shirts.

Rs. 90/- is too much, you could have gotten them for Rs. 65/- at Raja Bazar, and enjoyed Fav-vara chowk`s famous qulfi falooda with the change.

scout #186 Couldnt you have downloaded it from Napster? Although I suppose Napster is no longer available for that purpose - I dont really know since the experts on Napster are my kids while I am happy just to get CDs for Rs. 90 each from Sadar bazar Rawalpindi...

stuka:

``Bhai, everyone here is way too culture for me.``

haina :(

``Hmmm, let me muddy the water here a bit.

Anyone remember Hassan Jahangir of Hawa Hawa fame?``

LOL..ure saying u havent heard `Shadee na karna yaron`? lol...please hear it at pakistanimusic.com and do tell us what u think

Temporal # 172,

Reporting back ..... wow, that is quite a collection .Visited just a couple of them yet ... what i saw and read was beautiful, with a good selection .I know now, how my weekend would be spent :)

Thank you ....

lots of love,

sa:)

Aamir - ``Nothing wrong .Thats what all superstitious say``

: ) you got me there f&s! But really it is more to keep my mothers heart than anything else (dil rakhte rakhte have grown very attached to it). Think we have cluttered up this board enuff - time to move back to music??

aicha

tahmed321 ji #181,

showoff :)

well i bought a fiona apple CD for a buck at a thrift shop some time ago, and it`s absolutely great.

Re: nasah, #169

Thank you for making a plea for the heinous crime committed by the Pakistan Judicial System (if one calls it a ``Judicial`` system) against an innocent person. In my opinion, the ``judge`` who passed the sentenced should be hanged, not the accused Dr. Younis Shaikh.

All Pakistanis with a shred of civility and decency should hang their heads in shame for this crime committed in the name of religion and justice. Where`s the Chowk article discussing this? Where are the Chowk Interactors crying on this injustice?

Bhai, everyone here is way too culture for me. Hmmm, let me muddy the water here a bit.

Anyone remember Hassan Jahangir of Hawa Hawa fame?

What happened to him? Was he the Rick Springfield of Pakistan? That despicable species ``the 80s Pop Star``

This is what I found in a small shop in Rawalpindi Sadar on my recent trip to Pakistan: A set of 15 CDs of Lata Mangeshkar. For Rs. 90 each. Great quality. I understand even this is a small fraction of the over 3,000 songs that the Great Lata has recorded, but (as the shopkeeper assured me) the 15 CDs are among her finest songs and that there were no duplicates. More important, on these CDs I came across songs I had not heard in decades.

Aamir - Thankyou for pointing out the subtleties. Now, is a person indeed bankrupt if s/he has only work to look fwd to, is a person known only by the company he keeps, is the health of a household really determined by the amt of garbage thrown out? Cant say for sure !!

Re the rest - sounds good to me and only one, more for sentimental reasons tahn any other.

aicha

re: narain # 176

Would you have some more details on this set? What is it called, and how can someone in the U. S. of A. get it?

Thanks, Guruvar.

Temporal # 172,

Thank you ! magar yeh tou apney aik pooorey din ka nuskha likh diya ![LOL] will get back with the post mortem findings !

Roman English versions will be greatly appreciated if anyone can post them please!

love,

sa:)

Aamir

Me neither, but job satisfaction is extremely rare and if ever you do find it - being a workaholic isnt so bad. Am glad we are on the same wavelength here mugar I cant let sleepign dogs lie - so ag my better judgement - all this mutual agreement is actually getting a bit disagreeable - what gives ??

aicha

ref: Nasah #121

``Unfortunately there is such a paucity of music teaching tapes and CDs from the subcontinent.``

Actually there is a very nice 14 CD set brought out by the Pondicherry Ashram, which is a must for any student of Indian classical music. They outline the philosophy, techniques and tools of music. They also have a section where they highlight the major ragas: their character, timing, characteristic movements and then demonstrate this by a famous rendition.

-narain

Wow! A discussion on classical music, my passion, and I missed it.

Regarding new stars on the Classical music horizon, here`s my pick.

1. Ulhas Kashalkar: he`s from Bombay, and his technique and voice are both excellent. There is a recording of Raga Basant by him in the ``Tarana`` series brought out by music India, which I think is one of the most beautiful renditions I have heard recently.

2. Rahid Khan: grandson of Ustad Nisar Hussain Khan Sahib of the Rampur-Saheswan Gharana. He has a mellifluous voice and complete mastery which is rare in young singers. I have a CD called ``evening Serenity`` where he has sung a great ``saraswati``.

3. Arati Ankelikar-Tikekar: among the best up and coming women singers. Her voice is great and she sings with such effortlessness that its a pleasure to hear her. Raag Rang brought out a cassette where she sings ``salag warali`` a rare morning raag. Its a treat to hear.

4. Shruti Sadolikar: again her voice has something so sombre and grand, and her singing is so flawless that she ranks among my favorites.

I don`t know why, but almost all of the best new talent seems to be coming from Bombay. That city has all the other centres completely eclipsed.

And oh, somebody was asking about that grand and stately form, Dhrupad. The Dagar brothers are of course closely associated with it. But I think the hnour of making it more accessible and appealing rests with the Gundecha brothers. They are relatively young, and sound like it too, But they have made Dhrupad much more listenable. They have an excellent recording called ``traditions`` out. One of my favorites in it is the Kabir Bhajan in raag Charukeshi.

-narain

re: nasah # 161

Thank you for asking. I am doing just fine now...I can walk with fair degree of comfort, and have joined work. Ofcourse, it will be a while before I recover my full strength but I am getting there quickly. With such a wonderful group of people wishing me well, how could I not? :)

Best regards,

EK

Shirin Ahmed #162:

...now you will have to cancel the next few appointments...do some good homework on these sites and come back to us with your findings:)


Nita Awatramani’s labour of love
http://www.urdupoetry.com


http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/1442/poet_indx.html

http://www.mindspring.com/

RSaxena

``Dr. Younis Shaikh, a teacher at a medical college in Islamabad and founder and president of Enlightenment, the Pakistani-based International Humanist and Ethical Union member organization, was sentenced to death for blasphemy by a court in Pakistan on August 18. He has one week to appeal this sentence. (See the New York Times International section Aug. 20, 2001).

Dr. Shaikh was arrested on October 4, 2000, by Islamabad police for allegedly saying that the Prophet Mohammed did not become Muslim until the age of 40 (which was when he received his first revelation) and that his parents were non-Muslims (as they died before Islam was proposed by the Prophet). According to the report in the NYT, ``The Movement for the Finality of the Prophet, well known for pursuing blasphemers, filed a criminal complaint and sent a mob to the college and the local police station, threatening to set them on fire.``

Hundreds of people have been convicted of blasphemy in Pakistan, among them moderate Muslims, Christians and members of other religious minorities. The law they are prosecuted under is extremely ill defined. Frequently, people don`t know beforehand that they are committing an offence. While we do not know if Dr. Shaikh will face execution in the short time allowed for his appeal or whether he will languish in jail, we do know that we must mobilize immediately to bring this travesty to the attention of the world community.

YOUR HELP is urgently needed to bring political pressure to bear on Pakistan to stop the death sentence from being carried out. Protests are being planned in London and Oslo.

PLEASE ACT NOW:

1. If you live in the U.S., please contact the U.S. State Department by calling Sec. Colin Powell at (202) 647-4000 or email him at secretary@state.gov.

2. Contact the President of the United States by calling (202) 456-1414 or email him at president@whitehouse.gov.

3. Contact your U.S. Senators and ask them to contact the State Department to bring pressure to bear.

4. Contact Ambassador Dr. Maleeha Lodhi at the Embassy of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in Washington, D.C. at (202) 939-6200 or email her at parepwashington@erols.com.

If you live outside the U.S., please contact the appropriate government agency to call this matter to their attention or see www.iheu.org for further information.``

Aamir - ``Although that was my highest record ,sort of bragging rights``

thought as much - but everyone is entitled to do so - a bit!

``No im no where overworked or tired ever by work alone``

You are v lucky to feel that way. But I guess not everyone can count on that happening. I have always felt in the eventuality of ones personal life tanking - they should have work to fall

back on.

Shima & MFarooqui & Rsridhar - My father would do the same - tape each episode religiously. Loved it! I believe Gordon Banks is nomore. He passed away in some freak accident. After taht the series

died a natural death. Mrs Bucket (Routledge -i think) is hilarious too!! There were some others taht were superb too - Open all Hours, Mind your language are some taht come to mind (courtesy my father again) - anyone seen those??

aicha

Reply to #165

rozaiba asks: ``Some classical pieces:- Kishori Amonkar What is the name of ‘style’ Kishori Amonkar sings in??``

The school she nominally comes from goes by the name Atrauli-Jaipur, after its founder Alladiya Khan (the world has seen v v few the likes of him) whose family originally came from Atrauli and later settled in Uniyara near Jaipur. However, Kishori Amonkar is no liege to blind tradition

and has developed a style that builds on her Atrauli-Jaipur background (inherited from her recently-deceased mother, Mogubai Kurdikar, among the greatest vocalists of the 20th C) and extends it by injecting `romantic` elements from other

styles.

tantralogician

Aicha, we were in Europe for few years where British sit-coms are quite popular. My most favorite was ``Keeping up Appearances``...Now ``Golden Girls`` will fail thousand times to the acting of Ms. Patricia Rouletge? (I forgot her last name).

You are right about US sit coms, although I like the old ones like Mary Tyler Moore, Dick Van Dyke, and I love Lucy, and Sienfeld would be one of the new ones.

Sridhar: ``Allo Allo`` was classic, based on the second world war backdrop, it was about a French Restauranter who helped the German Resistance by providing assistance to British Army and French civilians. The main character, Rene played by Gordon Banks?(anybody at Chowk) was just superb.

Again, sorry for the digression, but still we are talking about art, isn`t it?

Dost-Mittarji, I knew I was in wrong board about Rajinder Krishan, but you responded to Sadna in that board, so I also started, :) but the point was about Raja Mehendi Ali Khan.......

This has been the most informative discussion I’ve seen on Chowk.

I’ve had a couple of friends in their 40’s who in their younger years lived with classical musicians. Through them I was able to distinguish some differences in sound that would allow me to better appreciate classical music.

I have a childish query. Why is Asad Amanat Ali Khan not considered as good as his chacha Hamid Ali Khan? OK, so Hamid is simply better. But I’ve heard people say that ‘Asad is a fraud’. Does anyone know why? After reading the posts here, I did try out some of the selections including ‘umraan langyaan pabban phar’. I liked Asad’s ‘ghar vapis jab aao gay tum’. Unfortunately, my ears are not tuned yet to distinguish between what is genuine and that which may not be. I don’t see why some are critical of Asad’s skill. However, I can sense that Hamid Ali Khan is better.

Some of my favorite NFK pieces:

- Zayhaal-e-miskeen

- Sanu pul gaee khudai chana saree

- Main nivaan maira murshad ucha

- Man atkaya bay qadraan day naal

Some classical pieces:

- Maee nee main kinoun akhaan (all versions)

- Sohni gharray noun akhdee (Pathanay Khan)

- Lamakaan main ghar banaya yaar nain (Abida Parveen)

- Kishori Amonkar

What is the name of ‘style’ Kishori Amonkar sings in??

- Preetam Madhum (Abida Parveen)

Question about ‘Preetam Madham’: Who wrote the words for these songs? It is in hindi I think. Translation anyone?

Ghazals/fimli songs:

- yeh kaghzi phool jaisay chehray (mehdi hassan)

- mujhay duniya valoo (Mohammed Rafi)



these last two I classify as songs for left-wingers- very inspiring.

- kya aisay kam sukhan say (Runa Laila and lyrics by Ahmed Faraz)

- Mudat huee hay yaar ko (Noor Jehan)

- Mirza Ghalib (Jagjit Singh and Chitra Singh)

Another question:

A song by Abida Parveen : ‘ab yeh aankhain kissi taskeen say tabinda nahin, mainay raftaar say jana hai voh aa-aye ga nahin’.

Who are these lyrics by? Does anyone know which album this ghazal is found in?

PS) Please desist from mocking and underestimating the power of Junoon. Ali is a bad vocalist and the album ‘ishq’ may have been only half-good, but his and Salman Ahmed’s intensity, particularly in concerts, more than make up for everything.

Not ze vun wiz ze leetle svastikas?!!

I cannot believe my eyes! Two more cohorts of the `Allo, `Allo brigade. I have to confess - I was smitten with the same (and recorded each and every episode to boot!) I have to tell you this: My sister is a doctor in England, and she tells me that it was so popular that all the nurses would go around and at the opportune moment, they would tell the doctor or patient: ``Now lizzen vairy carfully - I vill zay zis only vunze ...!``

Aamir

Well it definately is all about - quality of life, quality of your work, the motivation factor, how hyper/laidback one is, shortcuts (that may not be a good idea). However, if you feel you can do justice to the work at hand - after 72 hrs then by all means carry-on killing yourself!! I realise your q was more rhetorical in nature but will add - cant do more than 18-20 hrs at a stretch. No call of duty is worth the effort beyond that - in my humble opinion !!

aicha

Thanks Temporal,

However i knew of urdustan`s site. For the poets , it has a huge list of the Delhi poets , but i could not find their Kalam! I`ll look again.

love,

sa:)

Dear sadna:

You are so right.

``At Partition, people migrated or didnot migrate according to their personal proclivities. We are lucky to be able to enjoy the efforts of those who managed to succeed and flourish, whether on one side of the border or another.``

Thank God -- between India and Pakistan -- at least -- there are no LOCs -- as far music is concerned.

Dear Eklavya:

i wish someone will hammer your sentence -- ``our modern Indian civilization, as it exists today, is the shared product of a collective life in which all communities have participated`` -- on the head of the braindead members of the Hinduva parivar.

Great to see your posts. How are you doing my friend.

Dear zafar:

You`re right dhurpud is not monotonus or dull -- it`s only my impatience -- it does unfold rather too slowly -- and who has got that much time -- (poor excuse for poor taste, I know)-- you`re one lucky man -- got to listen to Dagar brothers on daily basis.

Dear Amit:

Thanks for the web site. What a treasury of Indian classical music!

Lately heard the rendition of that -- ``ka karoon sajni aiye na balam -- by Ajoy Chakarvarty -- what a fluid resonant voice -- captures the pathos of that celeberated thumri! -- goes two three octaves effortlessly -- another star on the horizon of classical music.

shima

I see you have mentioned Allo Allo - where did you see it ?? I ask this because feel American tastes arent that ready or refined for fallen madonnas ... & dickytiquers & ... so you couldnt have ...

Just curious but pls feel free to tell me to mind my own biz.

ps I avoid murky posts because I worry about losing my already tenuous grip on english

aicha

dost_mittar#104
Thanks! I have that one, fortunately.

Aamir

yes and if it wasnt for the loads of chocolate fudge&chai life would indeed have been a misery !

``I thaught i only worked that hard.`` - hmmmm given your presence here - working hard or hardly working??

aicha

Sameer, you are welcome. It is our pleasure to share our common interests with you. You certainly are a good student :). Music and flower are two best creations of God, so they do not have religion, and they are as much yours as mine. I learnt lot about Punjabi music, which I am not very familiar mostly because of language. Thank you for that.

Shirin Ahmed #149:

[...Does anyone know of some good Desi poetry sites ? preferably in the Roman style ?...]

...try this one...the site is a little slow and probably needs some promotion...check out the bait baazi (antraakshri) there...

http://www.urdustan.com

__________________________________


(ajnabi: apologize for using your board)

SameerJB:

...need some help with trans-creation this minor poem in punjabi...if it is ok...we can move to the speaker’s corner...keep the words simple...

...urdu suggestions also welcome...


LET ME BE

Leave me alone
need no peak
no valley
need no help
to confront
reflection.

why do gods
know this not
would be less
melancholy
less happy
more content
if they just
let me be.


...just a suggestion...

[...MENU CHUDDH DEY

chuddh dey yaar
menu ki karna
choti tey ...?]


love & rgds,

t

PS: TO CHOWK EDITORS

What happened to the rest of Shah of Chicago? Even ajnabi is musing!

tantralogician
Why mix politics and music? If you want to share information on specifics to give proper perspective thats one thing, you donot seem to be doing that. What do you or music gain anyway with heated tempers ?

At Partition, people migrated or didnot migrate according to their personal proclivities. We are lucky to be able to enjoy the efforts of those who managed to succeed and flourish, whether on one side of the border or another.

For instance, the lyricist Qamar Jalalabadi and his family(Hindus) apparently migrated from Afghanistan, at Partition. His homeland and former countrymen lost him and his talents, and they are the poorer for it. We enjoy Mehdi Hassan, though he migrated from from India. We enjoy Naushad, though he didnot migrate from India.

And btw, I think you mention the so-called `Hindu` characteristic of `accretion` essentially to get yourself on a spurious upper ground here. Accretion works both ways, brother. Have you considered, what did the Europeans contribute to the development of Indian music, literature or any of the arts? Was there a similar symbiosis and sythesis of culture, religion, talents and skills in the arts leading to new styles , new creations and vigor? Did they even bother to patronize the Indian arts officially?

The irony is you are likely to have migrated out of India and will kick up a big fuss if the contributions of your own culture from the subcontinent to your adopted homeland were ever looked down for being `late arrivals`. And what if such a labelling is done after tens of generations of your descendents have lived, sweated and died in their homeland, Mr logician?

re: tantralogician # 146

Tantra,

Your knowledge of music is most impressive. My involvement with classical music, on the other hand, has been limited to helping local SPIC-MACAY chapters organize a couple of concerts. So no arguments there.

I do, however, have some concerns.

1. It seems difficult to believe that in a thousand years Muslims have made only some incidental contributions to the development of Indian classical music. This view becomes all the more untenable when you consider the fact that at least in the present times many of our best musicians have been muslims. You would agree that a vast majority of Muslims in India/Pakistan had Hindu ancestors. Doesnt seem reasonable to think that they would lose their ability to make original contributions to classical music once they became Muslims.

2. I agree that Indian music is a product of Indian civilization. But Indian civilization is not Hindu or Muslim or Christian. And continuous growth, development and adaptaion by learning and by accretion is an INDIAN trait, not a Hindu trait. Thus our modern Indian civilization, as it exists today, is the shared product of a collective life in which all communities have participated. Do we not do injustice to this stupendous achievement by making exclusive claims on parts of it? What value do such claims add even if they could be substantiated?

3. In any case, I find the whole discussion regarding religious identities of people in non-religious fields at best superfluous (at worst, it can be downright disgusting and harmful). I dont see how a person can be a better physicist, athlete, singer or sitar player just because he or she was born a Hindu or a Muslim. So any pride of any kind associated with Hindu achievements or Muslim achievements seems out of place to me. I have often criticized our Pakistani friends for giving in to such kind of thinking, and I truly dont feel comfortable seeing Indians - whether they be Hindus or Muslims or anybody else - going that route.

Or, am I completely misreading you?

Regards,

EK

Thanks dost-mittar, Neptune, Truth, Shima, Eklavya and Amit for sharing your thought with me despite making so many mistakes, though all innocent ones. It makes me doubly grateful for forgiving my mistakes and and responding in the most delighted and respectful ways. Can you imagine YLH or F_K calling raga darbari to raga sohni, crediting a song to S. D. Berman instead of Sachdeva?, calling Chanchal Singh to Nirender Chanchal, writing dawa instead of zaban and so on? I must be taking this thread lightly and not thinking before writing.

I visited both the URLs Neptune and Amit mentioned and both are great. I will be visiting those sites often in the future. I have absolutely no opinion about Dharupad and Khayal and plan to put some effort of my own to learn the difference between them. All I can say, which I might have said tens of times on chowk, is that whenever we talk about Islam, it is religion only and when we say Musalmaan, it does not mean culturally non-Indian. Hinduism term on the other hand is used both for religion as well as culture. In this sense, Islam and Hinduism are two distinct religions whereas a Musalmaan and Hinduism do not always mean that wide gulf in terms of culture. It is impossible to define clear boundaries between the cultures of Indian Hindus and Muslims, particularly when they are involved in a profession definitely desi in origin and propagation through centuries. Certain professions are more Islamic than Hindu and Muslim tailors tending to the needs of Muslim women (burqa) and butchers (meat sellers) might have certain distinct Islamic culture but not in classical music. How can a Pakistani Muslim take pride in certain musicians of Muslim origin when the Islamic Pakistan practically forced out most well-known Muslim musician, Bare Ghulam Ali Khan. He migrated to India after 1947 against his wishes to stay in Lahore. Had it not been for Noor Jehan and Khursheed Anwer, Pakistani music industry would have truly been barren-siberia. Mehdi Hasan, coming from well known gharana from Rajhistan, had to work odd jobs for several years before finally becoming known. Khayyam, Shamshad Begum and M. Rafi (all three from east Punjab) chose not to migrate to Pakistan in addition to a pucca lahori Surriya Jamal Sheikh. Should Musalmaans hate them because they stayed back and hate Bare Ghulam Ali Khan for dumping Pakistan for India? Absolutely not. Similarly Hindus should not hate Noor Jehan or Khursheed Anwer or Bundoo Khan for migating to Pakistan. Because, music is a discipline of culture and Hindu-Muslim titles are really meaningless. A good piece of music is a good piece of music any way you look at it and that is it.

Does anyone know of some good Desi poetry sites ? preferably in the Roman style ?

sa:)

Re:Eklavya#136

I totally agree with you that classical music is the joint heritage of both hindus and muslims in the subcontinent. The reason it is so beautiful is that it has been nurtured and improved by everyone. Any attempt to give it a sectrian label is absolutely foolish. While, hindus invented the fundamentals of classical music, muslims took it to another level by developing new forms, inventing new instruments, providing royal patronage and most importantly, giving us some of the greatest performers of classical music.

In India we have had a renaissance in classical music. Organizations like SPIC-MACAY and Gandharva Mahavidyalaya have contributed tremendously to spread awareness of classical music among common folks. I have heard that present generation Pakistanis don`t value classical music very much, which is truly a tragedy.

Re:SameerJB#113

Actually the Bade Ghulam Ali song in Mugal-e-Azam (Prem Jogan Ban Ke) is in Raag Sohni rather than Darbari. The seduction scene of Dilip Kumar and Madhubala was shot earlier. Khan saheb wanted to view the scene while singing for it. Hence his voice modulation is timed closely with the actual movements on the screen. It is truly a masterpiece.

An interesting thing about classical music is that different raags remind you of various seasons, emotions and even time of day. Raag Darbari is a beautiful raag that was actually created by Tansen. When you hear it, you can feel the regal atmosphere for which it is intended. Bade Ghulam Ali has some excellent recordings in Darbari. By the way, if you are interested in classical music, try out the website www.musicindiaonline.com for some indian classical audio clips of various ustads.

Reply Nasah #134

Nasah

You made a very reasonable response to a perhaps less than reasonable (but how is it tantric?) dummy spit.

But:

“Dhurpud is of course well developed - but it’s slow, monotonous, and dull -- without much improvisations –“

Admittedly Dhrupad is much less easy to listen to than Khayal because there are no words to “hang” your attention on. It is also much slower in the way it unfolds a raga. But it is truly lovely if one actually gives it one’s full attention – not monotonous or dull at all! Give it another listen and another chance.

(Hmmm….Khayal is the “muzak” version of Dhrupad…possible discussion topic?)

“ and by the way -- the ONLY exponents of Dhurpud in its true form in India --unfortunately for you -- are still the one and ONLY Dagar brothers -- the much Hindutva hated -- inevitable Muslims”

Blast from the past! I have wonderful memories of the Dagar brothers performances in Delhi.

They also lived on the top floor of a house I used to walk past every day on my way to and from the school bus stop – and quite often I could hear them practicing. I had no idea what a privilege that was, otherwise I would have stopped and listened more often than I did. (But what can I say – frivolous from early childhood, that’s me.)

“ – looks like you can’t escape the Moosulmans – anyway.”

But who would want to, since we are all so charming and lovely, no?

Best regards,

Zafar

Reply to #134

nasah writes:

``Dhurpud is of course well developed - but it’s slow, monotonous, and dull -- without much improvisations -- ``

It may be, to the casual, uncultivated ear but not to those who understand and know. There are Dhrupad lovers aplenty who have no training in or formal knowledge of music. Khayal has its own set of technique and aesthetic and Dhrupad has its own way. To elevate one at the expense of the other is silly not to mention a reflection of the protagonists musical development, the lack of it to be sure.

nasah:

``and by the way -- the ONLY exponents of Dhurpud in its true form in India --unfortunately for you -- are still the one and ONLY Dagar brothers -- the much Hindutva hated -- inevitable Muslims - looks like you can’t escape the Moosulmans - anyway.``

I doubt the Hindutva fellows would hate Dagars. The Dagars sing praises of Shambho-Mahadeva almost everyday through their Dhrupads. But more to the point, your assertions that the Dagars are the ``ONLY`` exponents of ``true`` Dhrupad (whatever

that means) is plain wrong. The Mallicks and the Tewaris of Darbhanga (Bihar) are the other major families around, their descendents very much active even today. There is also the Talwandi branch dhrupadiyas (some of them in Pakistan, by the way). Please study a little before you peck away at your keyboard.

Reply to #135

Eklayva writes:

``I am no musicologist but it seems to me that the Indian classical music is one of the grandest, noblest, and proudest achievements of Hindu Muslim

commingling.``

This is an oft-repeated sweet-nothing. I would say, it is a product of Indian civilization. That some of the practitioners in recent times have been Muslims is incidental. Indian music is a long history of accretion (a veru Hindu characteristic) building upon tradition, imbibing an idea here and there from elsewhere and so on. The topic is too large to be covered in a few sound bytes.

Reply to #143

wadera writes:

``Tantralogician, (in post #131) you really must READ before going off like a blunderbuss in a Yosemite cartoon. Here is what I said: ``He came to Pakistan, his land of dreams, and lived in LaluKhet til he died.`` Where does this say anything about his lack of love for Delhi?``

But you mentioned the Pakistan as the ``land of his dreams`` as if that is something he dreamt of and aspired for. Do a search on Google groups (http://groups.google.com) and type in the keywords ``Bundu`` and ``Dhar``.

Reply to #144

Zafar Al-Talib writes:

``As opposed to living like Muslims? How? What’s the difference? I don`t think that there is one.``

Point taken, Zafar. I ought to have worded my sentence better.

Wassalaam,

tantralogician

tantralogician:Tantric

Excuse meeeeeeeee.

Isn`t it OBVIOUS that “Indian” ragas are HINDU`S creations. Did I mean Dhurpad -- before the Muslims -- was developed by the Christians? What insecurity!

When I used the term Muslims polishing Dhurpud into Kheyal -- I was implying the term ``Muslim`` in relation to supposed influence of the Arab and Iranian musical system on Indian music -- suggested by another interactor.

Dhurpud is of course well developed - but it’s slow, monotonous, and dull -- without much improvisations -- and by the way -- the ONLY exponents of Dhurpud in its true form in India --unfortunately for you -- are still the one and ONLY Dagar brothers -- the much Hindutva hated -- inevitable Muslims – looks like you can’t escape the Moosulmans – anyway.

cheers

Reply Tantralogician #132

Reply to #121

“…most of the great Indian ustads have never found it a problem acknowledging their Hindu roots and the Hindu antecedents of their music. In fact, several of them, eg. Alladiya Khan, Alladdin Khan etc, lived much like Hindus.”

As opposed to living like Muslims? How? What’s the difference? I don`t think that there is one.

“Which is not surprising since the gharanedar musicians typically came from a lineage where at the top of the line you would find a Hindu convert.”

Um…that’s true of most South Asian Muslims, actually.

“Someone also mentioned that it is hard to find classical music courses in India and Pakistan. It is eminently possible that that situation obtains in Pakistan, the cultural and moral Siberia of our times.”

Mashallah, Tantralogician, you have a wonderful way with words.

Zafar

PS Your assumption that all South Asian Muslims who say something you don’t agree with are espousing a Pakistani viewpoint does your argument no favours.

Tantralogician, (in post #131) you really must READ before going off like a blunderbuss in a Yosemite cartoon. Here is what I said:

``He came to Pakistan, his land of dreams, and lived in LaluKhet til he died.``

Where does this say anything about his lack of love for Delhi? I talked with him and he expressed a deep love for Delhi. He also expressed his hopes and dreams for Pakistan. It is a tragedy that we in Pakistan did not value him as we should have, and in fact there are many other musicians/artistes TODAY, that we in Pakistan do not value. I consider these treatments criminal. Ustad Bundoo Khan lived a poor man in the slums of LaluKhet. He had to feel bitterness at his treatment, yet he only expressed love for Pakistan. So don`t go giving me any crap about fantasies/schmantasies. I am angry enough at the way we treat our artistes. Besides, this is a MUSIC forum. Keep it this way. I want to hear about MUSIC, not another mudslinging match. I really have no patience for it.

Asif Naqshabandi:

I agree with you on the quality of Iranian movie. IMO, however, Iranian movies do not really portray an Islamic ethos. The movies are about day to day lives of ordinary people, and yes, these Iranian movie directors tend to find poetry in everyday situations. I haven`t seen an Iranian movie which is religious, at least not any which have become popular,

Re: Reply #: 127

shima,

I agree with what you said about Madani though i have not seen the sitcom that you mentioned. The only British things we get to watch in USA have to do with the royalty. Quite a lot about Diana. Also, sometimes back, they were showing this British comedy ``Are you being served``. I thought it was hilarious.

Sridhar

Re:Reply #: 124

ahmed Madani,

Just call me Sridhar. I am older than you but in USA everyone calls everyone else by his/her first name.

I do not know much about IT. Someone from Pakistan on Chowk can help you with names of training institutes in Pak. Correspondence course for IT does not sound like a good idea to me. Anyway, good luck to you. Do not worry about your English. There are lots of people in USA who do not know any english and are still surviving here.

Sridhar

re: #124

No wisecracks, ok? :)

#130,#131,#132

TANTROLIGICIAN

Is your nick inspired logic from this smut?

TANTRIC RITUAL

from fireplug.net/

Madhuri`s posters burnt by BJP cadre protesting Lajja

Press Trust of India

ANOTHER DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LEADER PAKISTAN & FOLLOWER INDIA:WHATEVER PAKISTAN MAY DO ,INDIA WILL BE LATE COMMER AS ``ME TOO`` shortly there AFTER,proving imitation is the best form of flattery .May the persistence of Pakistani continue to be proven right by none other than the hegemonous neighbour ---BIG BUT DUMBO

Madhuri`s posters burnt by BJP cadre protesting

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Lajja

* * * * * * *

Bhopal, September 3: A group of BJP workers on Monday burnt an effigy of Bollywood film-maker Rajkumar Santoshi and posters of film actress Madhuri Dixit to express their protest against what they described as ``objectionable dialogues`` against Hindu gods and goddesses in Santoshi`s latest movie Lajja.

Police said the BJP workers led by Rameshwar Sharma, leader of the party in the Bhopal municipal corporation, were trying to move towards Raaz Talkies, where Lajja is being screened, when they were stopped in view of prohibitory orders in force because of the monsoon session of the Madhya Pradesh Assembly.

According to BJP workers, Madhuri`s posters were burnt because the ``objectionable dialogues`` against Hindu gods and goddesses were uttered by her in the movie. ``Lajja`` is also being screened at the local Sangam cinema hall, but no demonstration was held there.

This is the second time this year that a demonstration against a Hindi film has been staged in the city. On July 19, activists of the Youth Congress had staged a violent demonstration against Hindi blockbuster Gadar.

Shima,

How could I have missed Ore Majhi! A real gem of a song.

And thank you for that translation. Aren`t those words powerful enough to move a stone?

Now, you are really making me homesick, Shima.

Tantralogician,

I am no musicologist but it seems to me that the Indian classical music is one of the grandest, noblest, and proudest achievements of Hindu Muslim commingling. I know there is an effort by some Hindus to claim everything for Hinduism, and an effort by some Muslims to claim everything for Islam, but is it easy to tell in this fine and perfect blend where one part ends and the other begins? Are such excercise even useful?

BTW, I have never known nasah as a proponent of Pakistani history. He is among the straight shooters.

Shima,

How could I have missed Ore Majhi! A real gem of a song.

And thank you for that translation. Aren`t those words powerful enough to move a stone?

Now, you are really making me homesick, Shima.

Tantralogician,

I am no musicologist but it seems to me that the Indian classical music is one of the grandest, noblest, and proudest achievements of Hindu Muslim commingling. I know there is an effort by some Hindus to claim everything for Hinduism, and an effort by some Muslims to claim everything for Islam, but is it easy to tell in this fine and perfect blend where one part ends and the other begins? Are such excercise even useful?

BTW, I have never known nasah as a proponent of Pakistani history. He is among the straight shooters.

Sridhar,

Reading Madani`s posts can be lot of fun. He sounds like that English Lieutenant from the British sit-com ``Alo Alo``.

Sorry for the digression folks. Keep up posting the music of sub-continent.

Ekalvya, add one more of SD in the list, ``Ore Majhi, mere majhi, mere sajan hai us par, main ispar`` of Bandini. By the way, sajan can be interpreted as God in Bengali Bowl geet.

Here is the meaning of the first two lines of Bhupen Hazarika`s Bistirna Dupere. This is a song about the deprived masses of India.

`` O Ganga, why you are still flowing quietly after hearing the cries of vast number of deprived people on both sides of your banks?

Upon witnessing the degradation of morality and humanity, why are you still flowing lazily and shamelessly?

O how helpless I am expressing those powerful words? The writer is Sadashib Banerjee.

Both Salil Chowdhury and Hazarika had composed many songs on this theme, and they are all very good. In fact Calcutta Youth Coir under the direction of Ruma Guhathakurta (Kishore Kumar`s first wife and Amit Kumar`s mother)had also recorded Bistirno Dupare. One of the nicest songs of Calcutta Youth Coir which has a tremendous appeal to the united world is:

``Tomar amaar thikana, Padma Meghna Jamuna

Mekong Bhalga ghure, Gangar tir dhare peyechi chalar nishana``.

Don`t forget to include Roshan and Khaiyam in your list Eklavaya and Sameer,

``Rahe na rahe hum, meheka karenge, banke kali banke sabab....

``Justojoo jiski thi usko to na paya hamne, is bahanepe magar dekh li duniya hamne``

Sayonara or is it cionara?

Mr. Asif Nagshbundi

I read yourleter. Thank u very much.

About ``basant`` festaval. my thinking. is it be banned in punjab also.This year sindh banned all that hindu festival by govt. order. But sorry your punjab no ban but selebrate same stuf. Its wrong as punjab is captan of pakistan correct.They called spring festaval but every PPL though as Basant festival. Its shikh hindu thing. we chased all hindu and shikhs type out punjab why now selebrate and fly kite stupid stuf?.its stupid to do things to make your enemy happy.

Reply to #121

nasah writes:``These Indian classical ragas are eternal -- nothing compares to it -- in the Iranian or the Arab music system -- yet the Muslims turned -- that Dhurpud gem -- into an exquisitely cut polished diamond -- Kheyal -- its most popular form for the past several centuries.``

I agree only partially. Yes, the Indian ragas are eternal, the product of the highest musical thought and imagination.

No, these fantasies about Muslims coming in and polishing things won`t wash. It is curious that while you are quick to rush in to take credit for ``Muslims`` you don`t find it necessary to associate ``Hindus`` with the idea of raga.

Dhrupad was (still is) a highly developed form. To say that it was polished into a diamond (khayal) is to betray one`s ignorance of BOTH the forms. The faith of the practitioners is quite incidental to much of this development. Further, khayal has not been around ``several centuries.`` The beginnings are placed more like in the 18th C. This ``several centuries`` is another myth calculated to elevate Amir Khusro by ascribing to him all manner of fictitious musical inventions (solely with the goal of trumpeting ``muslim`` contribution). These chauvinists, of course, never find it convenient to mention Khusro`s own estimation of the music of India exiting in his times!

Finally, most of the great Indian ustads have never found it a problem acknowledging their Hindu roots and the Hindu antecedents of their music. In fact, several of them, eg. Alladiya Khan, Alladdin Khan etc, lived much like Hindus. Which is not surprising since the gharanedar musicians typically came from a lineage where at the top of the line you would find a Hindu convert.

Bottom line: Paki version of history won`t wash.

Someone also mentioned that it is hard to find classical music courses in India and Pakistan. It is eminently possible that that situation obtains in Pakistan, the cultural and moral Siberia of our times. But in India, not only is it easy to learn music, one can flourish doing so.

tantralogician

Reply to #118

Wadera writes:``...It was said that when Ustad Bundoo Khan played, his Sa-Rangi became a Sau-Rangi! He came to Pakistan, his land of dreams, and lived in LaluKhet til he died...``

I don`t know where you fellows get your fantasies from. It broke Bundu Khan`s heart to leave his beloved Delhi. He went to Pakistan only after he had no choice. Despite his family having left earlier he stayed behind in Delhi and it was a wrenching decision for him to ultimately leave. Furthermore, Bundu Khan had NO interest in the political happenings. When he once heard that one Jinnah is scheduled to come to the Delhi radio station he is said to have said ``No problem, I will give him Sarangi accompaniment.`` So much for the ``beloved Pakistan`` myth. In Pakistan he was a lost man, neglected and unappreciated, and the emotional stress wrought by the move may have hastened his death. For more on Bundu Khan, read Sheila Dhar`s ``Here is Someone I`d Like you to Meet.`` One chapter is devoted to Bundu, among the most moving accounts one can find on anyone.

tantralogician

Reply to #118

Wadera writes:``...It was said that when Ustad Bundoo Khan played, his Sa-Rangi became a Sau-Rangi! He came to Pakistan, his land of dreams, and lived in LaluKhet til he died...``

I don`t know where you fellows get your fantasies from. It broke Bundu Khan`s heart to leave his beloved Delhi. He went to Pakistan only after he had no choice. Despite his family having left earlier he stayed behind in Delhi and it was a wrenching decision for him to ultimately leave. Furthermore, Bundu Khan had NO interest in the political happenings. When he once heard that one Jinnah is scheduled to come to the Delhi radio station he is said to have said ``No problem, I will give him Sarangi accompaniment.`` So much for the ``beloved Pakistan`` myth. In Pakistan he was a lost man, neglected and unappreciated, and the emotional stress wrought by the move may have hastened his death. For more on Bundu Khan, read Sheila Dhar`s ``Here is Someone I`d Like you to Meet.`` One chapter is devoted to Bundu, among the most moving accounts one can find on anyone.

tantralogician

SameerJB #93:

Regarding your request for more info on Rahmat Fateh Ali Khan concert recently held in NYC. I am a casual music listener so cannot give you any great musical details. He played at a bar called the Village Underground in Greenwich Village and the troupe included his father (who I presume is Nusrats brother) and his kid brother (Wahadat? looked 14 or 15) who was on stage for the first time. Rahmat has a very powerful voice - he comes across as a modest low key person but maybe thats surmising too much from watching a person on a stage. Songs he played included numbers from his new album, Jhoole Lal, Dum-a-dum mast qalandhar etc. and when pressed for an encore he ended with ``Kina Sona Rab Ne Banaye``. Rahmats voice is awesome and he can go up and down the scale with ease. The audience consisted largely of subcontinentals, smoking thankfully wasnt allowed, and there was the obligatory blonde in the audience who would get up and start dancing to the music. Then there were some other guys who would show up on the stage and start dropping dollar bills one by one on the troupe. The close circuit TV operator was intent on using all his special effects. The audience was relatively small about 150-200 people but not bad for a weekday. The whole audience, myself included, was swaying with the music. It was a great evening.

nasah #121

`Dil jalta hai` is actually by Mukesh and not Saigal. The first few years of his career Mukesh consciously copied the singing style of Saigal (because of his popularity I guess). He was convinced (by Anil Biswas? Naushad? don`t remember) later to stick to his own characteristic style.

On the ragas, Darbari and Malkauns both sound sombre with haunting movements, but are quite different as far as ragas go. Darbari belongs to the Asavari thaat while Malkauns is from the Bhairavi thaat.

SameerJB

[Now what is raag darbari and how one can identify it by just listening to any piece in that raga?]

Each raga has a specific set of notes and characteristic movements which are common to any piece set in that raga, and can be used to identify it.

There are quite a few sites on classical music, but check out this one http://www.itcsra.com

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Re:Reply #: 122

Asif Naqshbandi,

Agree with your post. Quality is a must. In this respect i know that a lot of very good Pak plays were made many years ago and i know that these were freely available in Bombay at the time.

Joint production of some interesting historical movies is a very good idea. There are some incredibly talented people on both sides of the border and a mega-project like this would launch their careers. As far as i know, no one has so far made a movie on the Mughal emperor Akbar. Other topics like Heer-Ranjha or Soni-Mahiwal are also of interest to people on both sides. The big question is, will the politicians agree on this. I doubt it. We are having tough time playing cricket. Talking about a joint production of a movie seems far-fetched right now.

Sridhar

Dear SameerJB:

re:#113

``Bare Ghulam Ali Khan is worth lot more than that. I Think that is in raag darbari. Now what is raag darbari and how one can identify it by just listening to any piece in that raga?``

Indeed, he is priceless. Khan Sahib was a rare gem.

That classic thumri by Bade Gulam Ali Khan -- ka karooN sajni aye na balam`` -- is in raag BhairveeN.

Another classic - a gazal by KL Sehgal(?) -- dil jultaa hai to julne de, asooN na baha feryad na ker -- is in rag Darbari -- one of the most popular and enchanting raagas -- rather close to Maalkous.

No other way to identify except to learn the scales -- and listen time after time with the constant reminder that this is such and such raag -- or take a course in Indian classical music -- something not easily available here -- or in India or Pakistan.

Unfortunately there is such a paucity of music teaching tapes and CDs from the subcontinent.

These Indian classical ragas are eternal -- nothing compares to it -- in the Iranian or the Arab music system -- yet the Muslims turned -- that Dhurpud gem -- into an exquisitely cut polished diamond -- Kheyal -- its most popular form for the past several centuries.

Good to know that you are starting classical -- keep us informed about your progress -- I might start taking lessons as well.

sridhar,

I agree with most of what you say and there ARE some v. good films from Bollywood but the majority are mindless repetitions of the same formula. I saw Shatranj kay KhilaRi and I think it was a great movie. Pakeezah and Mughal e AZam, Umrao Jaan Ada, Main Azaad Hoon, Sardari Begum...these are all excellent movies. India certainly makes good movies for the masses but I believe that the cinema of a nation is a good reflection of a society and the fact that so much of Bollywood is still churning out the same old formula must say something. Raj Kapoor was special--he made socially important films which were both of artistic merit and comercially viable (with one or two exceptions).

Anyway, Bollywood caters to a certain market and it is v. good at delivering at that market. Pakistan cannot compete with it in that particular niche due to many reasons, money being the main one (even though our stars are generally more glamorous and attractive in my opinion) SO it will make sense for Pakistan to try and develop a different niche. And given the fact of Pan-Islamism and our cultural affinities with the Arab-Persian world we can learn a lot from them. Our dramas are successful because they are quality. People will watch quality films if they are well made regardless of whether songs are included or not. People often think ``art`` films cannot be entertaining! That`s not true. Therefore the industry should re-think who it tries to emulate. I`m not saying dont produce any Bollywood cloans at all--just produce them much less AND concentrate on making films more like our dramas and like the Arabic and Iranian cinema.

Both India and Pakistan have made versions of Layla Majnun but by far the best film version of this legendary love story I have seen is a Tunisian one called ``Laila, Ma Raison`` (okay it was made partly with French money) and it had no songs and no rain scenes! I am sure it will be better to make 10-12 such films a year of quality rather than making 50-60 typical crap ones. Having said that there is a film coming out soon in Pakistan called ``Usaamah`` which will be interesting...:-) Shaan plays the hero role :-)

Since the movies are one of the best ways of propogating one`s message and values, films with an Islamic ethos should be made in Pakistan. Within Islamic and Indo-Muslim history we have an infinite variety of scripts to choose from. But any film made has to be made WELL.

Quality not quantity must be the motto for our film industry.I`d love to see a top Pakistani director like Syed Noor working with Mohsen Makhalmaf on a joint Iranian-Pakistani project...

:-)

Or how about an ``art`` version of Heer Ranjha? or Sohni Mahivaal? Or a biopic of Muhammad ibn Qasim?

Or of Mahmud Ghaznavi? Or Aurangzeb Alamgir? Or Iqbal? Or Ghalib? Or filming various episodes from Alf Layla wa Layla? Or from Kalila wa Dimana?

etc. etc. Cinema can both be artistic and in this day and age it is the best vehicle for dawah as well.

We can even make joint films with India once we have established a separate niche for ourselves...

heck, maybe i`m in the wrong career :-)

sameerjb,

Sameer, you are talking about the famous maanjhi number by sachinda, Doli Mei Bithai Ke Kahar. And don`t forget Safal Hogi Teri Aradhana from the movie aradhana!

THAT is what I call singing...And yes, not including Mukesh or even Manna Dey in any list of all-time musical greats will be patently unfair.

So nobody knows Assamese here? :(

Banjaara,

Bhaiyaa, tumahi assamese seekh leo na. It isn`t very different from Bengali. You can do it over a weekend :)

My deepest apologies: How could I possibly leave out Attaullah Khan Esakhelvi? Or Noor Jehan? Or Iqbal Bano? Or Mehdi Hasan?

I have been listening to these as I write:

``Mujhay Tum Nazar Sey ...``

``Wo Ishq Jo Hum Sey Rooth Gaya ... ``

``Mohabbat Karney Waley Kum Na Hongay ...``

This demands not just the older songs be listed, but the newer ones as well. And we have been given real gifts in the singers that have come out in Pakistan:

Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan: Simply head and shoulders above anyone else. Iran has a singer, Shahram Nazeri, who performs Rumi`s poetry, and sings it as no one else I have heard. He is worth listening to. Once, in a conversation with him, he said of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan: ``A singer like him comes along once every 500 years. We don`t know how fortunate we have been to have had him in our lifetime. We are not going to see anyne close to him for another 500 years.`` While the 500 years is just a number, I think the spirit of what he was trying to say has meaning. (As an aside, another Iranian singer not to be missed is Sima Bina, who sings folk/sufi poetry).

Even with the presence of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan (to whom I listen every single day), there are others I would not be without:

Pathana Khan. What he did with that one single performance in Multan, one warm evening in April, moving us incomparably with his rending, poignant ``menda ishq wi toon ...`` has forever left a mark within me.

Abida Parveen. What an incredible, incredible treasure she is!

``Hairan`` Shah: singing Sindhi kafis with a wild, whirling mosaic of voice and movement, in the desert of Larkana,well into the early hours of dawn, til his voice was softened gravel, and his kurta had torn loose as he tried to pull out his very emotions from within his chest ...

Hadiqa Kiyani, Mussarrat Nazeer, Nayyara Noor and Munni Begum, intoxicating us with the shaeiri.

Sajjad Ali, who somehow brought to me the exact same memory and feeling of days in Clifton, Bath Island, of such wonderful innocence.

Junoon, who have suddenly done what I thought would be done by Sajjad Ali: They have come up with a mix of modernized traditional poetry that is an anthem. Just listen to ``Rohnde naina``, ``Ghoom, ghoom`` from ``Parvaaz``.

I have some treasured old 78 RPM`s (handed down) of Surayya Multanikar and Mohammed Rafi and one by Ustad Bundoo Khan who can shift your equilibrium by his performance on the Sarangi. I was told his story, when he came to perform as a backing musician for Ustad Amanat and some others (a performance in the mid-1930`s) No one thought much of this small, frail figure, carrying a still smaller, more delicate instrument. But when he began to play, he simply overpowered everyone and took over. His eyes closed, and the sarangi produced a range and harmony of sounds that had the audience stunned. It was said that when Ustad Bundoo Khan played, his Sa-Rangi became a Sau-Rangi! He came to Pakistan, his land of dreams, and lived in LaluKhet til he died. I went to see him there, and saw him with his beloved instrument. He never left it. It was always with him, in his arms, in his eyes.

(As an aside, based on some of the interacts,for those who are interested in Iranian movies - run, walk, drive - somehow get to see ``Drunken horses``, ``Gabeh``, ``Red Balloon``. Each is wonderful, though difficult to take emotionally (especially ``Drunken Horses`` - THAT was hard for me to watch, emotionally speaking.). ``Two Women`` (Do-Zan) is a ferocious, feminist movie - definitely a must see, although a bit skewed in its portrayal. We Pakistanis could learn from the Iranians. The Khomeini revolution has done wonders for the Iranian cultural and movie industry (who would have thought?!). Someone on this thread suggested we freely encourage Indian movies and that we join them. I hope to God we don`t! I can think of few things more embarrassing, more cheap, more vulgar than the Indian movies. What an embarrassment! I do think that the older Indian movies were very good though and I would go along with that.)

Re:Reply #: 111

ahmed madani Sahib,

Between your thoughless gibberish, mis-spelt English words and atrocious usage of the language, I was finally able to figure out what you were trying to say.

Here are some of your gems:

1. ``i agree Pakistan is contined of mughal empire``.

2. ``Basic singing and cinema is not very importent``

3. ``Reema is as sexy or more than india Chhap stupid actress``

4. ``Anyway.One way to kill india Chhap movie is to have usa type movie, more sex , fighting excite etc. Cinema is imp as there is lot of mony to make.``

5. ``We we not be free till we donot take turki, irani or arab language.``

You see how discordant your thoughts are. One does not know what you are trying to say. As per 2. above, Cinema is not important but you go on to say in 4. that it is important as there is a lot of money to be made. You contradict yourself. That will make few people take your posts seriously.

So, you want to be more like the Iranians and the Turks. One way would be to convince all your Pakistani brothers to marry only Iranian or Turkish girls. It will be interesting to see what the offsprings would be like. Did you bother to find out what Turks and Iranians think of you or all other Pakistanis? You yourself said in your earlier post that many in the middle east think Pakistanis are no different from Indians.

The reality Madani Sahib is that Pakistan is India`s neighbour. Nobody can change that fact. It does not bother us Indians one bit if whole of Pakistan becomes more Arabic or Persian or Turkish. We have our culture and we are comfortable with it.

You want to go into IT. Good luck to you. You will find that if you come to USA as an IT worker, you may have to work with a lot of Hindoos which you hate so much. My advice to you, do not hate anyone. Just be happy with yourself.

Sridhar

Re:Reply #: 111

ahmed madani Sahib,

Between your thoughless gibberish, mis-spelt English words and atrocious usage of the language, I was finally able to figure out what you were trying to say.

Here are some of your gems:

1. ``i agree Pakistan is contined of mughal empire``.

2. ``Basic singing and cinema is not very importent``

3. ``Reema is as sexy or more than india Chhap stupid actress``

4. ``Anyway.One way to kill india Chhap movie is to have usa type movie, more sex , fighting excite etc. Cinema is imp as there is lot of mony to make.``

5. ``We we not be free till we donot take turki, irani or arab language.``

You see how discordant your thoughts are. One does not know what you are trying to say. As per 2. above, Cinema is not important but you go on to say in 4. that it is important as there is a lot of money to be made. You contradict yourself. That will make few people take your posts seriously.

So, you want to be more like the Iranians and the Turks. One way would be to convince all your Pakistani brothers to marry only Iranian or Turkish girls. It will be interesting to see what the offsprings would be like. Did you bother to find out what Turks and Iranians think of you or all other Pakistanis? You yourself said in your earlier post that many in the middle east think Pakistanis are no different from Indians.

The reality Madani Sahib is that Pakistan is India`s neighbour. Nobody can change that fact. It does not bother us Indians one bit if whole of Pakistan becomes more Arabic or Persian or Turkish. We have our culture and we are comfortable with it.

You want to go into IT. Good luck to you. You will find that if you come to USA as an IT worker, you may have to work with a lot of Hindoos which you hate so much. My advice to you, do not hate anyone. Just be happy with yourself.

Sridhar

Asif Naqshbandi #109, `` And these films feature none of the vulgarity of most indo/pakistani films either proving that a great movie can be made without songs and dances and women in see-thru` wet saris/shalwar kameezes!``

You`re the tenth person so far who has praised Irani movies. There was a recent International Film Festival in which an Irani movie won numerous accolades. I forgot the name.

``Arabic, Persian, Urdu should be the lingua france of Pakistan and not English as it is today.``

Tell that to a Punjabi paindoo from Lahore :)

Yes, Persian and Urdu are beautiful flowing languages, but you can`t beat English in terms of universal acceptance. Let`s push our ``Islamic`` egos aside and accept English as the language of the future.

We can always keep our Persian/Urdu alive through music and poetry and conversations at home.

By the way, does anyone know what happened to the Sabri Brothers? I heard both passed away :(

Ras Siddiqui #105,

Wax or no wax, Nazia Hassan was a hero for desi women growing up in the eighties. She, along with Runa Laila and Alamgeer pioneered the current pop music craze in Pakistan and India.

She is the Princess Di of Pakistan.

Ooper the gaRRh gaRRh di ainkus di be-dhayana di mung di daal of the arab, turkish, central asian and iranian cultures in Pakistan-a modification of Saadat hassan Manto`s famous line about the uttering of the guy itting on a tree branch at the border between India and Pakistan.

Eklavya: Wahan kon hay tera and another title song from movie amar prem by S. D. Berman are fantastic. I am surprised why he did not sing many more songs. I have noticed that Mahendra Kapoor, Mukesh and Shamshad Begum are absent from the choices of most people. Another very important point I would luke to make here is that being in love with oldies does not support the current hindi as well as local language singers. If all of us keep buying Cds of Lata, Rafi, NusratFAK only then who will buy the music from the current crop of singers. We must support the music as a whole so that it remains alive and well. Think of what happened to Pakistani cinema. It just died over the last 20 years because people started watching Indian and English movies and theatres could not make profits from showing Pakistani movies. The talent of movie making disappeared as a result. I hope this does not happen to any other form of entertainment industry, except the islamic science conferences and jehadis-madaris entertainment industry. They are retrogressive and deadly forms of entertainments.

Amit: Thanks for your post. I am la-jawab because I am new to classical music. I do plan to load up classical CDs during my next trip to Pakistan at 1 1/2 dollar per CD. Yes, 25000 rupees song in Mughal-e-Azam by Bare Ghulam Ali Khan is worth lot more than that. I Think that is in raag darbari. Now what is raag darbari and how one can identify it by just listening to any piece in that raga? That is what I meant by understanding the classical music. One must understand the difference between Dadra and Thumri to begin with and then perhaps raag Bhiron or Bhiravi, Mian ke thodi and so on. Later on, the difference styles of various gharanas must be learned. Actually there are some basic books, which come with three CD set. They must be a good source for a novice to begin with.

Re:Reply #: 109

Asif Naqshbandi,

``And honestly which director in India today has an output of films which can even touch that of Mohsen Makhalmaf or his daughter Samira?``

Now, i do not know much about the new wave cinemas from Iran but i have heard that they do well in International film festivals and are much talked about. Iranian directors have done well, given their constraints of living in a country which does not give artists full freedom to experiment (such freedom,alas, is not there even in India,witness the banning of Deepa Mehta`s movie ``water(?)`` by UP govt). They seem to have created a niche. But, it is another story to make a movie that is popular with the masses and also does well in box-office.

If you watch Mani Ratnam`s movies (Bombay, Roja etc), he manages just that and yet keeps quality of his movies high. One of his first movies ``Anjali`` is about a handicapped child. There are plethora of such movies made in last several decades. Raj Kapoor himself made one off-beat movie ``Jaagte Raho`` which he rates as the best but did not do well with box-office.

I am quoting several of following paras from an article on Indian Cinema written by the famous film director, Shyam Benegal. You can find it at www.tehelka.com.

1.Speaking on Indian cinema in 1929, Rabindranath Tagore, India`s nobel laureate and national poet, commented:

``Form in Art changes according to the means it uses. I believe that the new art that could be expected to develop out of the notion of the motion picture has not yet made its appearance. In politics we are looking for Independence; in Art we must do the same. Every Art seeks to find its own independent manner of expression within the world it creates; otherwise its self -expression is undermined for lack of confidence in itself ….. no creative genius has yet arrived to deliver it from its bondage. This act of rescue will not be easy, because in poetry, painting and music the means are not expensive. Whereas in the cinema, one needs not only creativity, but financial capital as well.``

Therein lies the problem. A cinema has not only to be artistically good, but also be financially viable. This has made cinema become more of a business venture, where producers call shots. Since songs are still popular among masses, these continue to find way into movies at places where they make no sense. In other words, to make a movie viable, producers sometimes pander to the interests of the front benchers.

2. ``Hindi cinema represents a collective fantasy-a group daydream, containing unconscious material and the hidden wishes of a vast number of people. It is not overly complex-the producers and directors, etc. are strongly motivated by the reasonable goal of making a lot of money. The daydream they develop is idiosyncratic. They must appeal to those concerns of the audience which are shared; if they do not, the film`s appeal is bound to be disastrously limited.

The depiction of the external world may be flawed; their relevance to the external life of the view remote, yet the popular film demonstrates a confident and sure-footed grasp of the topography of its desire and vicissitudes. Desire and fantasy are inexorably linked. Fantasy is the mise-en-scene of desire---it is the world of imagination fuelled by desire. The relationship between collective fantasy of Indian films and the Indian culture is complex. Though itself a cultural product, Hindi film has shaped popular culture in an unprecedented way.``.

I cannot put it better than what a Psychoanalyst of Indian Cinema has said above.

The early films of Raj Kapoor-Shree 420, Awaara, Boot Polish and the films of Bimal Roy, Mehboob, Khwaja Ahmed Abbas were all good and popular movies that were artistic as well as financially viable. Other movies like Guru Dutt`s Pyaasa, Kagaz Ke Phool and Mehboob Khan`s Mother India were also aesthetically and artistically well made movies. ``Mother India`` was a rage during those times and got nominated for Oscar for best direction (though never won it).

Who can forget the Bengali directors? Satyajit Ray`s Apu Trilogy are considered cinematic classics, Pather Panchali being a gem among them. I have seen almost all of his movies that were shown with English sub-titles many years ago in Bombay (before i migrated to USA). His films though very well made are not of box-office material, at least outside Bengal (they say Bengalees are a brainy lot and i believe them). His Shatranjh ke Khiladi was a flop. So, you see, money is a big limiting factor in the type of movies that one can make. Other Bengali directors of note are Ritwick Ghatak, Basu Bhattacharya, Shyam Benegal. Kerala`s Adoor Gopalakrishnan has made some good movies.

Though i have not seen any Bollywood movie of late, i saw ``hum apke hain kaun``, ``Dilwale Dulhaniyan le jayenge`` and ``Pardes`` many years ago and liked them all. I saw the last one with a Pakistani friend in New York (where else but in Jackson Heights). I believe Bollywood continues to make some good movies but are not artistic movies if that is what you are looking for. The fact that many movie makers are able to keep the audience interest alive and make profit is creditable in itself. Bollywood movies also take up issues which are of concern to the audience, like corruption, police brutality, nationalism (sometimes misplaced). You said some movies have of late become anti-muslim. I don`t think so. Perhaps anti-Pakistan (following Kargil)but certainly not anti-muslim. Do you know that a good 60% of artists directly or indirectly involved with the Hindi film industry are muslims?

I think Pakistan should create a niche like Iran did. But a lot of what goes on with cinema is dictated by reaction of the audience. If Pakistani people are hooked on to Bollywood and are watching pirated editions on VCR, there is little you or anyone can do. Pakistan`s govt should immediately free cinema by allowing it to closely interact with Indian cinema. When so many Bollywood movies find their way into markets in Karachi and Lahore, it does not make sense to officially ban Indian movies on T.V. Screening of Indian movies in Pakistan should also not be banned. ``If you cannot beat them, then join them`` should be the motto. Also, they must encourage International film festivals where usually quality movies are shown. These are a regular feature in India.

Sridhar

Referance No.109, Mr. Ali Naqshbandi

Respected sir,

I really honoured by you say you uderstand my thinking point.Most america Pakis forget culture and i agree Pakistan is contined of mughal empire after UK after Raj like Turki is like turki empire (Khilafat) kind of Nizam E Mustafa.I am not went college but read lot stuf on web site while sitting insead of watching bad stuf study about Mughal empire and Impire king Aurangzeb.

Before him things were going to dogs and time was wested in dance song etc instead of preparation for war. He banned all stuf there was point as this things make you week really. It does not much matter by singing finally who has better arms wins is the point. Basic singing and cinema is not very importent.

second pt is please write about paki movies and knowlage ppl about it.Pakistan was created negative of hindu india.Reema is as sexy or more than india Chhap stupid actress but Madhuri contols why due this stupid mental of people. Labor mazdoor people just want sex, dance,songs. Hindu wants to steal mazdoors mony by giving him what he wants. And thats problem. I saw iran movie good, it was dubbed, they are better looks than all hindus and actress good looking but no sexcitemet so mazdoor is not going to pay mony. We need to have little excite in our actress like Madhuri.Anyway.One way to kill india Chhap movie is to have usa type movie, more sex , fighting excite etc. Cinema is imp as there is lot of mony to make.

It is sorry what arab thinks about but / no better than hindu thing. Language can transform to arab, Turki, Irani culture. We we not be free till we donot take turki, irani or arab language.These songs are like cancer slowly spreading and eating body from inside. We need strong Dava inthis matter. Good day everybody and good nights to expaks in foren countri.

I am slowly thinking of it training as future and mony in that business but one institue asaks 52,000 rs its conected to usa organization for one year trainer ( IT cliams many have got jobs in states). What IT people advise me about that. Is it sufficient to in get job in STATES? good day ever6ybody.Thank for advice . Plz give tell opinion about IT training.

I guess there never can be any bad music - just attribute it to peoples tastes¤t moods. I dont have any favorites but currently am hooked to Meri Duniya from Vaastav, Pachelbel & Shujaat Hussain Khan (in no particular order). His Snowy Mountains with Kayhan Kalhor is THE most uplifting music I have ever heard - but then havent heard much looking at the various lists here : ). I went to their concert last year - v v good. Although I do have to mention this - nothing can beat the theme from The Good, Bad & the Ugly - always peps me up when I am heading home at 4AM dead after working on some manhoos deadlines. I highly recomend it !!

So little time and so much to listen to !!!

aicha

..fantastic range of great music by all!

And I am glad that Ataullah Isakhelvi was also mentioned...he has some fantastic songs in Punjabi and Saraiki and Pothohari languages! My favourite is probably his immortal, ``vay bol saanwal...`` :)

As for Ahmad Madani sahib--i agree with some of his sentiments but not all. We should not forget that our identity is Islam first and foremost but culturally and linguistically we have as much Indian culture in us as Arabi and Turko-Persian and it would be foolish to try to get rid of it. Islam does not demand us all to be Arabs culturally as well! Yes those things in our culture which have crept in from Hindu influence such as jehez, not allowing widowed women to marry again (or making it hard at least) so much so that it has become a stigma, some weddding ceremonies, the festival of basant and other obvious un-islamic practises, these unislamic practises should be eliminated but as long as nothing contradicts shar`iat we should keep it and be proud of it even if it is of hindu origin.

Having said that, I am amazed that given the brilliance of contemporary, post-revolution Iranian cinema, and the high quality of some Arab cinema, that our film industry has not tried to learn from our Persian brethren rather than aping and producing poor clones of Bollywood which is increasingly anti-Muslim and anti-Pakistani. And honestly which director in India today has an output of films which can even touch that of Mohsen Makhalmaf or his daughter Samira? And these films feature none of the vulgarity of most indo/pakistani films either proving that a great movie can be made without songs and dances and women in see-thru` wet saris/shalwar kameezes!

I think we can learn a LOT from post-revolutionary Iran and we should. Of course as the natural successor state to the Mughal Empire we also have a long tradition of Persian cultural influence amongst our educated classes which needs to be revived along with the Arabic language. Arabic, Persian, Urdu should be the lingua france of Pakistan and not English as it is today.

Relating these remarks to our current topic of music then certainly we should continue with Hindustani musical traditions (which have a heavy influence of classical Persian music anyway --the dastgah raag system was added by Hazrat Amir Khusro to traditional Indian ragas) but also re-learn and re-introduce more Arabic and Persian styles to our music as well. A good example of this in practise was the increasing use of Arabic and Persian lyrics to qawwalies by the Sabri Brothers in particular (Arabic) and Aziz Mian (whose qawwalies became increasingly Persianised!). NFAK too has many Arabo=Persian qawwalies. Other qawwals are continuing the trend....

* * * * *

In fact I think I might write a short article on the Pakistani film industry and hope that Chowk publishes it! Also perhaps one on post-revolutionary Iran as a model for Pakistan`s future...especially Iran`s political system which is a real Islamic model but one in which people elect their leader...

I`ve been out of touch for a couple of weeks but so glad to see that there has ensued a non-political, who is right who is wrong string here on Chowk.

Of course, Nusrat could not be forgotten nor Esakhelvi; (My favorite Esakhelvi moment is on an old cassette picked up somewhere in the bazaars of Punjab in which a member of the audience shoots off his pistol or rifle and Esakhelvi has to threaten to end the concert unless the man gets his feelings under control!)

And Tina Sani and Munni Begum and Bhimsen Joshi and....any list is a list of the moment. Ask me to name my latest top ten and you`ll find 6 are different than this list...but thanks for all your feedback and look forward to hearing some of your selections!

As far as Shah of chicago goes...I`m in the dark too. It is up to the Editor`s not me to post!

Cheers and namaskar and khuda hafez for now.

Re:SameerJB#93

In classical music, the performer has to be really good, in order to bring out the beauty of the genre. A well performed piece of classical music can transport you to another world. In other forms of music, a mediocre singer may be acceptable, but not in classical music.

A few years back, Pandit Jasraj of the Mewati gharana was performing in Lahore. After his performance, one of the listeners went up to him and told him, ``Aaj aapne mujhe Allah ka ahsaas karva diya``. Such is the unique nature of classical music!! My personal favorites in classical music are Ustad Abdul Karim Khan and D.V. Paluskar. Both of these stalwarts had the sweetest, most melodius voices that I have ever heard. If you have seen the movie Baiju Bawra, D.V. Paluskar sings for Baiju in the climactic scene during the competition with Tansen, in the classical based song, ``Aaj gavat man mero``.

Ustad Amir Khan and Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan were two other gems in classical vocal music. It is said that Naushad tried several times unsuccessfully to rope in Bade Ghulam Ali Khan to sing for Tansen in the movie Mughal-e-Azam, since classical musicians avoided movies in those days. Bade Ghulami Ali got fed up by the persistent requests and demanded an outlandish Rs 25000 for one song to get rid of Naushad and K. Asif. They immediately agreed and paid him the amount. As a result, much to our delight, Bade Ghulam Ali sang that masterful romantic composition in Mughal-e-Azam. I would recommend that you give a try to these artists. You may find it a very rewarding experience.

You folks have covered quite a bit of ground. Titans of all kinds find their rightful places here - masterful quwaals, classical singers of eternal charm, sufi groups electrifying their audiences, the evergreen geniuses of Hindi/Urdu film music, and of course, my favorite, the one and only beautiful Nazia Hassan (she gets both my votes for Tussaud`s).

To this long and glittering list I would like to add the names of two more legends. One of them is S. D. Burman. Here was a man who tranformed Indian movie music with his phenomenal sense of melody and effect. Every time I hear songs like roop tera mastana, na tum hame jaano, arrey uaar meri tum bhi ho gazab, phoolon ke rang se, ek ladki bheegi bhaagi see, I am tranported into a world where only sachinda can take one. However, I brought up his name not for his well-known role as a music director but for that one beautifully timbered, uniquely sonorous song he himself sang - wahan kaun hai tera, mussafir, jaayega kahan. That song, from the opening sequence of the movie Guide, remains among my all-time favorites. It isnt the usual run-of-the-mill kind of song, and I am curious to know if anyone else was as enraptured by it as I was.

The second person I wish to mention is luckily still with us. He is the cultural icon of Assam - Bhupen Hazarika, lovingly known as Bhupenda. Many years ago I first heard his songs when I was in Calcutta. Although I didnt understand a word of Assamese, I was pulled in by the sheer magic of his rich baritone voice. I went on to learn that this exceptional singer/musician/poet/lyricist is also a superb human being. His bistirna dupare (can anybody translate that?) is sheer joy! And recently, his MTV video Ganga is an incredible piece of work. The cultural allusions, the infinite humanity, the passionate voice, the elegant tune - all create an effect that is rare indeed.

Anyways, this has been a delightful discussion. Now I know I need to expand my music collection.

P.S.: Someone mentioned John Lennon. Now, he is the only God in MY dictionary :)

From The Times of India today:

Pak pop queen may be immortalised at Tussaud`s


LONDON: Late pop queen Nazia Hassan may be immortalised in wax as efforts are on to have her statue at London`s famous Madame Tussaud`s gallery.

At a special prayer meeting to mark Hassan`s first death anniversary on Wednesday night, Yasmin Sheikh, MBE, said she would immediately launch a move to have a wax model of Hassan, who shot to fame with her Aap jaisa koi meri zindagi mein aaye number.

Sheikh said it was in appreciation of her contribution to music, in particular her ability to successfully blend the beats and rhythms of east and west.

Wax statues of Amitabh Bachchan, Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi and Benazir Bhutto are among those on display at the museum.

A senior official of the Nehru Centre, the cultural wing of the Indian High Commission and envoys of Pakistan and Bangladesh were among those who paid tributes to the singer on her death anniversary.

Divya Mathur, senior programming officer at the Nehru Centre, paid her tributes in Urdu and read out a message from the director of the centre and cultural minister at the Indian High Commission Girish Karnad.

Acting High Commissioner for Pakistan Attiya Mehmood said the occasion should not be one of sorrow or gloom, but one in which the extraordinary achievements of a person who accomplished so much in such a short space of time are celebrated.
( PTI )

Dear Sirs (Owner of Chowk): I am tired of all stuf you put this journel. All kafir hindus influance on all people.

I want to bring notice we are race of midleeast and Arab country and turk and iranian and central asians white people and not dark race india chhap people.Let no blood mixing to godown muslim race is thec point of this letter. Have middle east arab music for change.

All pakistanis like india hinduchhap bogas cinema sons is tragedy. Why not enjoy arb and irani and turk culture and their movies and songs that is the point sir. Sometimes i suspense you are hindu lover than arab lover or turk lover. Its all bhankas and Bakwass hindi songs.

I given example later below. All muslims think.

I’m working as an Engineer in Qatar Airways and stationed at Doha, Qatar. I’m an engineering graduate of

P.A.F. Academy Risalpur and belong to a family having military background. I would like to highlight a very

critical issue and want my feelings to be communicated to the higher ups in Pakistan Army.

Here in Middle East, Indians have a lot of influence on the print and electronic media. No chance of maligning

Pakistan is ever wasted in this region. As a matter of fact, Pakistan is considered as a bully by most of our

Arab brothers. I’m often asked questions by my Arab friends that why Pakistan is harbouring terrorism in

Kashmir. They believe Kashmir to be part of India and support the Indian viewpoint. They also refuse the

ideology of Pakistan saying that we (the Muslims of Pakistan) are no different than the Hindus of India and,

therefore, the creation of Pakistan was not justified (for my Arab friends).

Sir, this should be an eye opener for us. The people I’m talking about are not common people who can get

deceived by Indian propaganda. They are intellectuals and professionals with vast experience in their

respective fields. Our Embassy in Qatar never bothers to promote the Pakistani side of the story. No efforts

are ever made to tackle Indian propaganda. Yet we are hiring and promoting officials who have callous and

indifferent attitude towards safeguarding Pakistan’s interests.

Secondly, I have been reading a lot about the Kargil issue. Indians have made it look like their military victory.

You surf the net and you will find the e-world full of Indian version of the story. Somewhere they list the names

of Pakistani officers and men killed by their gallant troops, on another site you will see the statistics of

Pakistani troops killed in this battle, elsewhere they will narrate stories of valour displayed by their soldiers in

routing the entrenched enemy (who had strategic advantage by occupying high peaks). I have hardly come

across any web-site, which can truly match the Indian sites. I have yet to find a page on the internet, which

tells our side of the story.

Being a Pakistani, I have a question for our Army higher ups in general and General Pervez Musharraf in

particular — Why are we afraid of telling the world what happened in Kargil? Did our troops fail (like the

Indians claim) or were our men unable to match the so-called “Courage and Valour of Indians”? I’m sure that

Pakistani troops have displayed unmatched courage and supreme sacrifice, which is not being disclosed to the

nation. This is a real pity for the nation who is made to believe that they suffered a debacle (greater than 1971)

when in fact brave sons of that nation re-wrote the history of Salahuddin Ayubi.

Please do not let the sacrifice of people like Captain Sher and Havaldar Lalak Jan go in vain. I’m sure there

were many more of them but nobody ever told us about them. Is there anyone who will tell the truth?

Muhammed Aamir Nawaid

Development Engineer - Qatar Airways

Graduate - College of Aeronautical Engineering

PAF Academy Risalpur, G-30 Engineering Course

Ph: +974 4 631037

Email: aamirnawaid@hotmail.com

Sir the point is we should go away from hindus to roots- our turki , arab roots.Hindustan out of mind out of site. Ban tv of India, open free arab and turki , iran channels flood pakistan. Hows the idea? I like this fustclas idea.

Lady complained Amina Shah- no body (muslim arabs , turki or central asian , pure iranian type)in usa asks to marry or date her and paki girls.Fist she is Sindhi and write too much against islam and is too hindu type thinking.They should first behave as Muslima then complan ok not before.

So before complan think what is wrong us. We are forgeting roots. Currents oppose to reach original race of islam.Instead of Urdu go arabic or iranian - parsee language. Urdu is too mixed too much hindi type (hindi is from world hindu late be clear mind) we should Arabic. Then no problam by any ethinic group correct. Yes sir you are correct any way.

My best music from our real race people- arab- iran-turki

1.Mohammad Abdel Wahab--- El Karnak (Lexor temple)

2.Farid EL Atrash------EL Rabih (spring season)

3. Abdel Halim Hafez----Kariat EL Fengan( Seeing future in emptied turkisk coffee cup and kept upside down)

fist theree by Arabic race singer

4.Ahmed Zaher-----Chon Darakt Farvaden (tree of luck)--- Irani race singer song

5. Farhad Darya--- Mazager Sho lili (afternoon)--Pushtu- from singer of Afghan race

I very sad when your reder ignore all muslim singers of middle east from where our fore fathers came.

I know some central muslim asia song but i do not appsiate that race as they think we are hindus or worse than that, they hipocrite men and woman drink Sharab, take nasha,think better as their skin is white like butter

Anyway point is lets get to roots stop hindu songs and movies is point.

What arb brother think no wrong. We worship hindus singing, shadi just hindu style what about following arabic or irani type for change. o bdy like that addicted to drugs of hindu songs and movies. If arab or any C.Asian or turki read this jonural he will feel pakistani is obsessed with hindus. How many real people from arabstan read, they tired of all hindus and pais all kafr style stuf. All lafadabagi i think. Any way my thoughts, need to go make check beds proper or not done by peons. Any way muslims give think to my piont and that is point of wrting this coment and all troubles. ay way good day

...the title of this article reminds me of the only stupid thing Rushdie has done in his career- title his anthology with elizabeth West `The Vintage book of *Indian * Writing` and putting in just a token non-IndoAnglian piece!...i think the uproar that followed it within and outside india has done more damage to his reputation than anybody`s fatwa...and this title uses the more expansive `south asian` and indulges in similar glibness..

..there exists such tremendous variety within india itself, not to speak of south asia, that such titles are better avoided...

..on another note i have always wondered why it was kishore (or rafi or mukesh etc.) who got most of the credit...i always found the lyrics of their better songs to be more inspiring than the singing (which is definitely good, but as the popularity of the several clones show, not essential)...

.. a different take on musical experiences, in no particular order:-

1/ the chorus of red-border sareed/`panjaabi` clad girls/ boys sing Rabindrasangeet under Santiniketan`s famed amrakunju mango-groves, with no accompanying music :` ami cheenigo cheeni tomake ogo bideshini`

2/ yesudas` `Ramakadha`, while *watching * the national-award winning malayalam movie `Bharatham`

3/ the folk-rock scene in bengali reflecting the chaos of calcutta and urban living, which i think is unique in india- nachiketa, anjan dutta and the more intellectual dylanesque Suman

4/ Bhupinder`s lonely singing in several of Amol palekar movies

5/ sitting backstage hearing amjad ali khan`s fluid sarod, when you`ve just finished a reefer of his..

6/ MS Subbalakshmi chanting mesmerisingly across the ship`s PA system, as you stand a bit sleepy on the deck feeling the salty early morning breeze over your ears...

7/..the solemnity of Silent Night in malayalam, when its that time of the year..

8/ Silk Route`s `boondein`, which gives `the feel of mountains, valleys and open spaces`(as they explain their name)- inspite of the slight pop-ishness, when you sip your weekend beer..

9/ jagjit singh`s Woh kaagaz ki kashti evoking sentiments the author mentions, and many others that his several other songs do

10/ john lennon- the only guy who rocked-`s `Imagine`, which should be made the world anthem...

Romair, let me add few more to your list.

- Galliyan Lahore dian (Shaukat Ali)

- ki hoyea je tooN kuRi Dilli shehar di main vi jatt Ludhianay da

- Chandigarh rehan waliye, asin paindoo nai dillaN de maaRhay.

- Ambarsariya mundeya ve kachiaN kalliaN na torh

MannyD: scholar and me? jaan diyO baadshaO. maiN pakka paindoo je. I have many famous Punjabi poems transcribed into roman over time and when someone asks I just pull that from my folder and cut and paste:-). Here is one from Shiv Batalvi for you.

lokiN poojan Rabb, mein tera biRhaRa(birhoN)...

saanu sau makkeyaN da hajj, ve tera biRhaRa...

lok kehan mein suraj banniya,

lok kehan mein roshan hoiya,

saanu kehi la giya ugg...ve tera biRhaRa...

na iss vich kisey tan(body) di mitti,

na iss vich kisey mann(mind) da kooRha,

asaN(we) chaaRh chhattaiya chhajj.....ve tera biRhaRa...

jad peeRhaN(pains) mere paireN(feet) paiyeaN,

sidak(sabber) mere de sadkey gaiyeaN,

taaN vekhan ayea jag...ve tera biRhaRa...

asaN jaN ishaqoN rutba paiyea,

lok vadhaiyeaN devan ayea,

saadey roiyea gall nooN lagg...ve tera biRhara...

mainu taN kujh akal na kai,

duniya mainu dassan aie,

saanu takhat bitha giya ajj...ve tera biRhaRa...

lokiN poojan Rabb, mein tera biRhaRa....

saanu sau makkeyaN da hajj ve tera biRhaRa...

ajnabi:

...may i?...this may interest some here...a write up on inimitable zohra sehgal...we have seen her in dil se, masala, bhaji on the beach and mumerous other movies...

________________________________________________


The art and adventures of Zohra Segal

By Kaleem Omar

I have finally managed to get hold of a copy of famed Indian dancer and actress Zohra Segal`s fascinating memoirs, `Stages: The Art and Adventures of Zohra Segal`, courtesy of Khawar Mumtaz, aka Rani, a specialist in women`s studies and international relations who heads the Shirkatgah office in Lahore and who is herself the author of several scholarly books, including a seminal work on Muslim women in politics in South Asia, which she co-authored with Farida Shaheed.

Rani, who lives in Lahore and spends much of her time travelling around the world attending conferences on women`s issues, is married to my first cousin Kamil Khan Mumtaz, one of Pakistan`s leading architects and the author of two works on Pakistani architecture: `Architecture in Pakistan` (published by Concept Media/Mimar in 1987) and `Modernity and Tradition` (published by Oxford University Press in 1999).

Kamil`s father, the late Zakaullah Khan (the son of Mumtazullah Khan, who belonged to a Pathan family that had settled in Rampur) was married to my aunt Khadija Omar, a painter, sculptor and one of the first Pakistani women to set up a boutique to make children`s clothes. Khadija, who lived in Karachi for many years before moving to Lahore in the late 1970s, died a decade ago. She was one of my late father Shaukat Omar`s five sisters. Khadija`s first husband, Zakaullah Khan, who was educated at the Aligarh University and later in London, was an engineer by profession and Zohra Segal`s elder brother.

Born on April 29, 1909, Zakaullah Khan was exactly three years older than Zohra. Next in line after Zakaullah in the Mumtazullah Khan brood was Hajrah (born on December 22, 1910), followed by Zohra (born on April 27, 1912), Ikramullah Khan (born on April 3, 1915), Uzra (born on May 22, 1917) (who was later to become well-known in her own right as the television actress, Uzra Butt), Amina (born on August 1, 1919), and Sabra (born on November 26, 1920).

This family connection between Zohra Segal`s family and my father`s family was one of the reasons why I was so keen to get hold of a copy of her memoirs ever since they were first published in India in 1997, but there was also another reason. This reason had to do with the fact that the book`s co-author is an American lady named Joan L. Erdman, whom I had met in Chicago on a trip to America in 1989.

Joan Erdman worked at a research institute in Chicago, and it was in her capacity as a scholar that I had gone to see her (our meeting was arranged by the United States Information Service), without having the slightest idea that she knew Zohra Segal. During my meeting with Ms Erdman, we chatted about this, that and the other. Then, at one point in the conversation, she asked me where I was from. I told her I was a Pakistani, but that my father`s family had lived in Aligarh before partition. `You mean, you`re from that Omar family,` she said, and proceeded to tell me all about them.

Well, you could have bowled me over with the proverbial feather! I mean, it`s not every day that you come across a total stranger in Chicago, an American you`ve never heard of, who then proceeds to tell you all about your family antecedents. `How on earth do you know all this?` I spluttered, astonishment writ large on my face. Ms Erdman chuckled, hugely amused at my amazement. `Well, it`s like this,` she drawled. `Do you know Zohra Segal?` `Yes, of course I do,` I replied. `She is my Uncle Zakaullah`s sister, and a famous dancer, and a movie, television and stage actress. But how do you know her?`

`I`m helping her write her memoirs,` Ms Erdman said. This revelation led to more expressions of astonishment on my part, because that was the first I`d heard that Zohra Segal was writing her memoirs.

Ms Erdman then explained that in 1983, in connection with her own research on famed dancer-choreographer Uday Shankar and the new tradition her created in Indian modern dance, she had met Zohra`s elder sister Hajrah, and then Zohra herself, in New Delhi. The occasion was the first Uday Ustav, a festival organised by sitar maestro Ravi Shankar (Uday Shankar`s brother) and other family members in honour of their elder brother who had died in 1977.

Zohra was asked to conduct dance workshops for troupe members in various Shankar groups and present a recitation at the festivities, which Ms Erdman said she did to great compliments and praise. Showing her slightly ribald sense of humour over lunch a few days later, Zohra offered Ms Erdman her manuscript to read and Ms Erdman accepted, `largely`, she says, `to learn about her role in the Uday Shankar India Culture Centre at Almora` (a town in UP in the foothills of the Himalayas), which Ms Erdman suspected was crucial to the centre`s organisation and syllabus.

`What I found`, writes Ms Erdman in her foreword to Zohra Segal`s memoirs, a life which deserved attention for a number of good reasons. First, Zohra had made, in 1930, the crucial decision to pursue a career rather than get married. In its time this decision was a heresy for a properly raised girl of her aristocratic birth. Yet she managed to gain family support for her plans and avoided marriage until she herself made the choice and commitment.

And what a career she chose! Based on carefree triumphs in school plays (she completed her studies in 1929), she decided to be an actress, but veered off into dance on her way to Europe. To be a dancer and female in the 1930s in India meant to subject oneself to denunciation as licentious, immoral and impure. No doubt, I thought, this courageous decision had some background in Zohra`s family, upbringing and schooling, as well as in her determination, seen in retrospect, to do as she pleased. Was there a model for rebellion in her family?

Secondly, Zohra`s career is impressively successful, albeit with oscillations between privilege and hardship along the way. Her mother died when she was young, and she was educated at Queen Mary`s College in Lahore (in those days a school for the daughters of aristocrats). Never having studied German, she decided to study dance in Dresden (a city in eastern Germany that was flattened by Allied bombers during World War II) at Mary Wigman`s studio. She married one of her students who was younger than her, and their first school in Lahore failed due to political turmoil during its early years. Her husband, loving and empathetic, never fully found his own artistic career and committed suicide, leaving her with two young children to raise ( one of her daughters is the famed Indian Odissi dancer Kiran Segal). She came alone to England to study acting, and stayed to struggle to support herself and her children there.

Twice she tried to establish herself in Delhi and through circumstances not of her making, was unable to do so. Finding suitable and affordable places to live in London proved difficult, and when she finally accomplished this, her children had left, so she returned to India to be with the next generation in her homeland. Yet, throughout, Zohra has had a successful and wonderful career, and today (she is now nearly 90) maintains a spirit which can only be called `youthful`.

Thirdly, says Ms Erdman, `Zohra extended the frontiers for proper women in the 1930s and became a model for her male and female relatives and students. By managing to establish a successful household and a productive career, her life has become an inspiration for Indian women, even today, who find it difficult to break the bonds of service and subservience, but also to live as professional women dedicated to a career and artistic fulfillment. Beyond India, Zohra`s story is a model and a challenge for women in the performing arts`.

Finally, says Ms Erdman, `Zohra`s wit, humour, intelligence, cosmopolitanism and occasional delightfully shocking lewdness, which mark her as an artist, an actress and a worldly woman, come from a lifetime of experiences and circumstances. Often in tension with each other yet kept in balance, these events endow her with a depth and emotional capacity that infuse her voice at every turn. Ever resourceful, in her late 70s she discovered she had more acting offers than before retirement`.

Audiences around the world have seen her as Lady Chatterjee in the 1980s television production of Paul Scott`s novel `Jewel in the Crown`, in Merchant-Ivory`s film `The Courtesan`, in the British television soap opera series `Parosi` and `Tandoori Nights`, in a Channel 4 production of famed Urdu writer Saadat Hassan Manto`s story, `Toba Tek Singh`, called `Partition`, in Srivinas Krishna`s `Masal`, or in `Bhaji on the Beach`.

Her roles are not those of leading ladies or famous stars; they are well honed, professionally sculpted portrayals which make what is known the world over as a `fine actor`. As Joan Erdman notes, `There are few awards for an Indian actress who looks Chinese, playing in English-language dramas, but whatever is out there, Zohra deserves`.

As there are many posters here who undoubtedly have good collections and wonderful memories(and good taste :)), may I ask whether anyone has information on how to get hold of more of DV Paluskar`s bhajans?

HMV India has been marketing a some of them in 2 cassettes, but I remember I have heard many more, notably `Hari-hari chuDiyaa`n`

The same with Juthika Roy with Hindi geets and bhajans. Whats on the market currently are just a few wellknown ones. The ones I am looking for are `boli re madhuban me muraliyaa`, another is `paschim se poorab aake megh gaye ghoom ke`

Thanks.

PS: If anyone from AIR archives or HMV India is here, please guys blow off the dust and PUBLISH!

Re: dost-mittar #88

‘ The next filmi qawaali that became popular was sung by a real qawaal in the film Azaad. It was ``Marna bhi mohabbat mein kisi kaam na aaya``. ‘

Glad you thought of this particular qawaali. The ‘real qawaal’ you refer to was none other than Chitalkar. He also used the pseudonym “C. Ramchandra”, as a music director. Apart from the qawaali, Chitlkar also provided the male voice in the famous romantic duet with Lata in Azaad - “Kitna haseeN hai mausam”. He sang several other songs in C. Ramchandra movies, and also acted the middle aged male lead in a regional whodunnit, based on a famous (fictional, Bombay based) detective character of the fifties. As to C. Ramchandra movies, who can forget Anarkali, every single song of which is unforgettable..

Regards,

Ten best songs related to cities, that I have heard (I am not too upto date on the various Indian songs relating to cities):

Mera sohna shehar kasur (Noor Jehan/Kasur)

An evening in Paris (Rafi/Paris)

Yeh hay Bambai (Rafi/Mumbai)

Bambai Nagaria (Lucky Ali/Mumbai)

Balo Battian (Ataullah Niazi/various punjab cities)

Lhore Lhore aay (Tariq Tafu/Lahore)

Rasha Pekhawarta (Mehjabeen Qazalbash/Peshawar)

Sanwali saloni si mehbooba (Vital Signs/Multan)

Kuriyan Lahore Diyan (Abrar/Lahore)

Mundiya Sialkotia (Noor Jehan/Sialkot)

i agree with all those who say junoon`s over rated..their first few albums were good.really good..but now theyre churning out fazool third rate music anyone can..theres nothing new in their last album...but *sigh * `neend atee nahin` still breaks my heart into itty bitty little pieces..so what if its pink bubble gum music at its peak..?:)..billo kikzazz..even daler mehendi`s but his egos way too inflated...

aisha your list was nice...i love that song too..`mujhae tumn nazar sae`..and how come no on mentioned that song with shabana azmi `tumn itna jo muskura rahae ho`? maybe i missed it since i just barely skimmed the replies...and as for he/she who put up an angraezi list...u forgot `anNys song` by jonn denver? have u no taste chiiiiiild?????????

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temporal: Thanks for mentioning S. B. John, Surraiya Multanikar and Iqbal Bano. The songs you mentioned were indeed superb. I need to buy CDs of Pakistani oldies. Another good one, I remember, was Salim Raza. I jhave made note of Rekha Surya and would look for her CDs once they come out.

Sarwar: ``Deewana banana hey to deewana bana dey`` was one of Begum Akhtar`s best rendition, particularly when she repeats ``ae dekhney walo mujhey hans hans key na dekho`` and her voice cracks repeatedly in this line.

Soysauce: I am still a child of classical music. My interest in music has definitely shifted to Punjabi with age, in USA. I had no interest in Punjabi music, culture or Punjabiat while growing up in Pakistan-a product of indoctrination throgh education and media blitz in Pakistan. My interest in classical music is three years old only and I am trying to learn through reading about classical music and different ragas. My interest in movie songs and Junoon shunoon is probably over for good.

dost-mittar: Thanks for pointing out my errors in my previous post. I have been writing thes posts based on memory only and some of the songs I have not listened to in more than ten years. Yes, it is Zaban and not dua or dawa; it is Nerendar Chanchal and not Chanchal Singh. [Pakistan/ India maiN, kuch bhee na zubaN se kaam liya but USA is different. At Chowk, aahaiN bhi bhareeN, Shikwey bhi kiye aur khobb zubaaN se kaam liya-two years at chowk and counting]

Truth: Could you write more about your experience at Rehmat NFAK concert in NY. I think he NFAK`s nephew and grromed to be gaddi nasheen of NFAK.

Sarwari 73?

I just found your list to be totally amazing... it is so amazingly similar to mine (the real one not the one I put up here) ... :) lol

-YLH

Ref Dulla Bhatti #68:

Thanks for the post. It is indeed a beautiful poem. I wonder if you have a book that you looked up in or just have a great memory. Anyway you are a scholar and a gentleman.

ManeshG,

Thank you for the info. I absolutely love the voice and the lyrics.

Aisha :)

Kabuliwala, that is a movie?

Ref Dulla Bhatti #68:

Thanks for the post. It is indeed a beautiful poem. I wonder if you have a book that you looked up in or just have a great memory. Anyway you are a scholar and a gentleman.

SameerJB: Thanks for the info on A.K. Niazi. Seems like he has lived quite a life. Interestingly, it is very difficult to find any real audio sites on the Internet with his songs. I haven`t seen him much on television either. This shows that the educated Pakistani community hasn`t really picked up on him. On the other hand, the bus drivers and truck drivers seem to love him. It is also interesting that he includes the name of his tiny village in his own name. I heard him sing, ``balo battian`` and have been hooked ever since.

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The true top 10 list of South Asian Songs:

1) Saqinama : Junoon

2) Jazba : Junoon

3) Maula : Vital Signs

4) Azaadi: Junoon

5) Yehi Zameen: Vital Signs

6) tu bhee Pakistan hai: Shehki

7) Sohni Dharti Allah Rakhay

8) Is Parcham Kay Sai talay: Nayaara Nur

9) Pyar Bina: Junoon

10)Khudi: Junoon

-YLH

Ajnabi: ooooooooooh I am an expatriate, ooooh my rear orifice hurts sooooooooooo much, and I am sooooooooo nostalgic... ooooooooooh peace out dude.

Sameer,

I find myself getting more and more into classical music as i get older. Even tho i cannot tell one rAgA from another, i find the music soothing and transcendent. As a corollary, i have been finding (starting in my late 20s) filmi music to be increasingly banal and boring. Again, i put this down to the fact of my getting older. What`s been your experience?

dostmittar,

it`s the voice, my man! The japanese women were taught to speak a certain way (high voice, trailing sentences) that was considered feminine. Similarly, in the subcontinent (and most of asia) feminine singing voice is high. Not something that i find attractive.

On a related note, i hate the western violin with its high pitch. I like what we have done with a borrowed instrument.

i heard rahmat nusrat fateh ali khan a few days ago in nyc. awesome.

By the sheer number of weeks it was on the top of the charts, I propose the following for honorary mention in the `South Asian` list.

Habibi, ya nour el ain

Ya Saakin Khayali

Aaasheq bakali sneen

Wala ghayrak fibali

.....

...

Dost-mitter ji your answer(#65) to Romair`s question would have been acceptable only if you were a female;)

I am outaaaaaaaaa

Sarwari,

``Aye mere pyare watan`` is from Kabuliwalah. It was sung by Manna Dey.

mohajir #67:

Sorry to quibble, but technically Bhimsen Joshi is from Karnataka, as he is from Dharwad. Also from Dharwad are Gangubai Hangal and the late Mallikarjun Mansur.

ajnabi:

...not fair...where are the rest of the installments of the novel?...


sameer:

...and then there are geets and ghazals that come to ‘personify’ the singer...it becomes their signature...

....there was one singer...s.b. john...and his immortal rendition of ‘tu jo naheeN tou kuch bhee nahiN...yeh maana kay mehfil haseeN hay jawaaN hay’...

...likewise...suraiyya multanikar would for ever be associated with ‘baRRay bay murawaat haiN yeh hus’n walay...’ just as iqbal bano with `sitaro tum tou sou jao paraishaaN raat sari hay...`

...for the rendition of khayal and dadra in the mould of late begum akhtar there is her star pupil rekha surya...don’t know if you have heard her.. or of her...she is out of delhi and comes to north america regularly in the summers for private concerts...has a set of fours cds ready for release in nov/dec...she has a very ‘pukhta’ voice...and she tells me the cigarettes you mentioned in your post were no regular cigarettes;)...

rgds,

t

Stuka #57: I am not quite sure whether Ataullah Niazi sang that song or not. I will have to check my collection.

I don`t think he killed anyone. Singers generally aren`t the killing type. I do remember hearing the story of his girlfriend/fiancee leaving him. Most of his songs are tragic and talk about being dumped by a girl. Due to this he is known as, ``dard ka safeer.`` Some of his famous hits are:

Balo Battian, Chan kittha guzari gaye raat, Bol Sanwal, Ishq mein hum tumhein kiya batain, tu bhi kissi ka payar na paye khuda karay, etc.

Mianwali`s punjabi, and hence Niazi`s singing style, is different and easily distinguishable, from regular Punjabi. They use the word, ``wat`` a lot. Esa Khel (A. Niazi`s hometown) is a very small village next to Mianwali. In the year that I spent in Mianwali, there were two striking features about the city: 1) I never saw a single female outside, other than at the bus stand catching a bus. 2) Everyone`s last name was Niazi (including the famous cricketer Imran Khan Niazi, whose family hails from that area also).

Romair,

``Speaking of Abrar, he is now a philanthrapist, attempting to build a hospital.``

....yes, him and a couple of other singers donate half (or so) of their concert proceeds to build basic health facilities and tropical diseases hospitals in far flung areas

``someone told me he used to be a teacher in Aitchison College, before he sang Billo day ghar.``

....he used to teach geography there before he hit it big w/billo day ghar

and speaking of attaullah esa khelvi (or however u spell it), i think he used to be a truck driver himself before he became famous with his songs......has anyone heard ``kameez teri kali``?

btw, i don`t think anyone`s mentioned nayyara noor...

Still pervade our musical ethos

Saeed Malik

Almost three years ago on August 16th Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, the world renowned Pakistani musician died in a London hospital, when he was proceeding to a tour of the United States. His death cast a pall of gloom was cast on music buffs, not only in Pakistan and India, but also in many countries of the world, which he toured frequently to demonstrate his melodic prowess. The Faisalabad-born Pakistani maestro stormed the world of entertainment and showbiz soon after his voice had been used by British Composer/Singer Peter Gabriel for background effects in his film. After the release of the film and especially after the release from Birmingham of the first album of his songs, Nusrat`s fame skyrocketed. He became a sought after musician in many countries including UK, Germany, France, the United States, Canada and Australia.

The State University of Washington, Seattle, in the United States invited him to teach qawwali music for one academic year to students of music. It was during that year that the late maestro from Pakistan toured several different areas in the United States and Canada, where he regaled large audiences with absorbing melodies. He is among a handful of Pakistani melodists who introduced Pakistani music in the countries of the West. But he alone succeeded in putting Pakistan on the music map of the world.

This scribe remembers his marathon performance at the Museum of Civilization in Ottawa, Canada, in the year 1992, when he mesmerized a standing-room-only audience for several hours. So popular was music, especially modernised qawwalis in Western countries that music buffs fell over each other in seeking admission to the concert halls, where the late Khan Sahib was scheduled to perform.

As a medium of emotional communication, music is more expressive than poetry. Poetry symbolises words, ideas and sentiments, but there are certain feelings and moods, which even words cannot convey. It is here that music steps in. The roots of music, therefore, lie deep in the sub-conscious minds of the humans, and spring from vast hinterlands of different continents. Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan`s music appealed to the sensibilities of the listeners from all over the world as it did not have to rely much on words of a language.

The late Nusrat Khan was a highly gifted practitioner of music the world has produced so far. He made original contributions, not only to the genre of qawwali, but also enriched other vocal varieties by blending sub-continental melodies with African swinging beats and Western harmony, creating effervescent sonic enchantment for millions of music lovers across the continents.

A trendsetter and highly creative artiste, Ustad Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan was one of the frontline musicians of the world, whose mission was to evolve an accepted mode of melodic expression which could have equal appeal to the sensibilities of the people living in all the continents. To a considerable he succeeded in evolving and practicing a genre, which the people enjoyed in different countries of the world.

No wonder the citizen of Paris bestowed upon him the highest civic award for creating a kind of music, which had much sonic appeal for the French people. He also won a UNESCO Award of Excellence and several from different cultural organisations from Australia, which he visited frequently, especially during the 1992 World Crick Cup championship. His bag of awards also included IMC-UNESCO award at Cologne, Germany and Fukuoka (Japan) Asian Cultural Prize, in addition the coveted Pride of Performance Medal in Pakistan.

A number of prestigious and world-renowned newspapers and magazines, including American TIME magazine, editorially commented on the talent and skill of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan following his death on August 16, 1998. Rich tributes to the virtuosity and superb musical sense and eloquent vocal expressions of Pakistani melodist were paid by international cultural organisations, who praised his services for the evolution of World Music.

So far the impact of Nusrat Khan`s music on Pakistani music buffs remains the same despite the passage of three years after his death. Any repeat telecast of his performance by PTV recreates the special aura of Nusrat music creating deep nostalgia about the maestro.

Here`s my list:- ( In no perticular order)

Bol- Tina Sani (Faiz Ahmed Faiz)

Mujhey tum Nazar Sey - Mehdi Hassan

Aaah ko Chahiyey - Jagjit Singh (Mirza Ghalib)

Rooney ka to Aalam Ayesa tha - Pankaj Udas

Hum key Therey Ajanbi - Nayara Noor (Faiz Ahmed Faiz)

Dashat-e-Tanhai mey- Iqbal Banoo

Yey kisney kaha tum Kooch karo - Ustan Amanat Ali khan

Kiya hey Pyar jisey humney zindagi ki terha - Jagjit Singh

Aye watan key Sajeeley Javaano - Noor Jahan

Indian Movie Fav.

Mera Kuch Saaman - Film: Ijazat

Kahania Sunati hey - Film: Rajput

Aye mere Pyarey watan -Unknown film to me

Chaltey Chaltey- Film: Pakeeza

Junoon is untouched by all, above and beyond...All its songs are great!

Pakistani non-ghazal songs:

AaNkho ko Aankhoney- Junaid Jamshed

Inteha-e-Shauq - Hadiqa Kiyani

Zara maan ko dekh- Unknown singer to me

Ajnabi- Ali Haider

Mey Bhi Khareedar hun- Sajjad Ali

Aansoo- Ali Azmat

Hoga- Awaz

English:

Bitter Sweet Symphoney

Open Road- Gary Barlow

We are the world

This used to be my playground- Madonna

Everything I do- Bryan Adams

Children of the night- Richard Marx

:) Aisha: The one who loves music

Mannyd: I think ``ussi kandgaN da mocha morhya`` is actually ``asi kandhaN tu munh cha morhya-nikki jai gal tu ??? kar chorhya`` meanig that I became angry due to your minor tease (or pretending to be indifferent towards me) and turned my face away from your wall.

dost-mittar: I mistakenly wrote Surjit instead of Surinder. My apologies. No I was not talking about Mughal-e-Azam qawwali in one of my previous posts, it was actually a pre-Kashmir problem qawwali by Noor Jehan-Zohrabai-Shamshad Begum from movie Zeenat. Did you get it? It was, ``aahaiN na bhareeN, shikwey na kiye, kuch bhi na dawa se kaam liya``.

Romair and Stuka: Yes, we are talking about same Ata Ullah Khan who sang, ``yaar ne hee loot liya ghar yaar ka``. It was after T-Series releasing many of his songs in much better quality than in Pakistan that he became somewhat known in India during late eighties and early nineties. In Pakistan, he has been well-known since late seventies. Actually some of his best folk songs are from his early years. He brought into attention some of the local Punjabi folk songs (from western part of Pakistani Punjab) which were rather unknown to even majhi Punjabi speaking central and east Punjabis. We have never heard folk songs like, kameez teri kali, sohney phullaN wali or ``tehnde (tuhade in majhi Punjabi) khoo te mahiya...........bedard dhola`` and a whole set of different couplets from Mianwali tappeys.

He was the first one in Pakistan to very successfully sang Urdu ghazals mixed with Punjabi folk and Punjabi Sufi poetry with the help of only tabla and harmonium. One could not claim if those songs were in Urdu or Punjabi. One of his 30 minute song released by T-Series was a beautiful mixture of the above mentioned literature. It was awesome and covered the whole one side of the cassette. It was famous ghazal, na haram maiN, na kaleesa maiN, na but-khaney maiN-chain milta he to saqi terey maikhaney maiN. Another of his beautiful urdu/ punjabi mixed song was, ``woh bahar ka zamana, woh haseeN guloN ke saye``. This song reminds me of another beautiful ghazal by Chanchal Singh, ?kabhi gham se dil lagaya, kabhi ashk bhi bahaye``. Incidently, Chanchal Singh was in a great position to sing Urdu/ Punjabi mixed songs after the success of ``beshak masjid mandir torho, Bukkey Shah yeh kehta`` from movie Bobby but he did not follow up on that success and soon moved to religious singing.

The story of Ata Ullah`s early infatuation with his cousin in his home village is more of a myth than reality. The fact is that he was engaged to marry her according to the decision of elders but her father reneged on the elders promise because Ata Ullah was very poor and unsuccessful during his early years. He was a waiter, a truck driver and worked at low paying job before becoming known as a singer. He married, I believe more than once and has happy married life with children.

The question as to why he did not achieve the kind of success as other famous singers, although enjoyed as much or even more fame for the last twenty years is perhaps due to a number of factors. It may have to do with poor managers, poor marketing and thus not getting the backing of the best recording studios, best musicians, and so on. He was releasing poor quality recording on cassettes when rest of the artists were heading to London or India for CD releases and better recording studios. He was even lax when recording for releasing songs. One can find a lot more obvious mistakes in his songs, sometimes forgetting the line or words in a line. He had to compete in an era dominated by NFAK and moreover he did not get the backing from famous personalities like Pathana Khan was backed by Ghulam Mustafa Khar and at earlier stages NFAK was popularized by Imran Khan and Peter Gabriel. All Ata Ullah needed was a Bally Sagoo or backing from British Oriental Star or Indian T-Series.

Despite all that, his fame is unmatched at mass level, as Romair has rightly pointed out. Around 1990, I had a collection of about 30 cassettes of his songs but over the years lost them because of more interest in CDs and more recent Punjabi music.

It was A. S. Kang who started the current Punjabi trend out of London and Kulwant Singh Bhamra and Sardar Gil of Apna Sangeet took it to zenith. Punjabi music has never been the same since then. Now it is moving, it is dynamic with so many singers and attracting large crowds. Abrar and Shazia represent this latest trend in Punjabi music where folk is mixed with practically everything and no longer limited to a singer sitting with harmonium and one or two tabla players in the back. However, the small town and village culture is still easy going with respect to music and it is Ata Ullah Khan style that touches their soul much more easily than modern innovative Punjabi music. Ata Ullah Khan still rules the truck drivers, Pakistani dhabas, small teas houses and festive gathering-between rivers Jhelum and Indus.

A sonf in a particular accent of Punjabi touches chords with the people who speak in that accent. At local level, Mansoor Malangi is very popular in and around Jhang and Pathane Khan among the Saraiki speaking people.

Re: Saigol: He was a Punjabi speaking (perhaps from Jammu) and employed in Indian railways, before becoming singer. His standard line, after recording every song was, ``gana hee te gaya hey, koi sher te naheeN marya`` when appreciated by the director or producer. He died one day before Inida/ Pakistan gained independence. He would only sing after having few or many drinks. Begum Akhtar would only sing after smoking several cigarettes and chewing paan. Bare Ghulam Ali Khan would like to sing only after being treated with 1-2 kilos of sweete-jalebis, laddos, barfi etc.

Regards,

Sameer

Romair:

Mandir dhaah de masjid dhaah de,

te dhaah de jo kujh dhehNda.

par bandeyaN da dil na dhahviN,

sohna Rabb dillaN wich rehnda.

As for as I know this couplet has been wrongly attributed to Bulleh Shah in numerous songs/movies and books. Original poet of this one is Mian Mohammad Bakhash(writer of Saif-ul-Malook)..

Mannyd: lao paahjin tusi khush rahvo:)

Ujj aakhaN Waris Shah nu[Punjabi].

Ajj aakhaN waris shah nu, kitoN kabraN vichoN bol,

Te ajj kitabe ishq da koi agla varka khol.

Ikk roi si dhee Punjab di, tooN likh likh mare vain,

Ajj lakhaN dheeaN rondiaN, tainuN warish shah nu kahen.

Ve dardmandaN dia dardia, Uth takk apana Punjab

Ajj bailey lashaN vichhiaN te lahu di bhari Chinab

Kise ne panjaN paaniaN vich ditti zahar rala

Te ohna paaniaN dharat nu ditta paani la.

Is zarkhez zameen de looN looN phuttia zehar

gitth gitth charhiaN laaliaN foot foot charhia kehar.

Veh vallissi vaa pher, bann bann vaggi ja,

ohne har ik baans di vanjhali, ditti naag bana.

Pehley dang madariaN, mantar gaye guach,

Dooje dang di lagg gayi, janey khaney nun laag.

laagaaN keele lok munh, bus fir dang hi dang,

Palo pali Punjab de, neele pai gaye ang.

GaleoN tutte geet fir, trakaleoN tutti tand,

TrinjanoN tuttiaN saheliaN, charakhare ghookar band.

Sane sej de berian, luddan dittiaN rohR,

Sane daliaN peengh aj, pippalaN ditti toRh.

Jitthe vajdi si phook pyar di, Ve oh vanjhali gayi goach

Ranjhe de sab veer aj, bhul gaye ohdi jach!

Dharti te lahoo vassiya, kabraN paiaN choan,

Preet diaN shahzadiaN, aj vich mazaraN roan.

Aj sabbhe kaidoN ban gaye, husan-ishq de chor,

Aj kitthoN liayiye labbh ke Waris Shah ikk hor.

Aj aakhaN Waris Shah nu, kitoN kabraN vichoN bole,

Te ajj kitabe ishaq da, koi agala varka phol.



Ujj AkhaN Waris Shah nu[English]:

I say to Waris Shah today, speak from your grave

And add a new page to your book of love

Once one daughter of Punjab wept, and you wrote your long saga;

Today thousands weep, calling to you Waris Shah:

(one daughter here refers to Heer)

Arise, o friend of the afflicted; arise and see the state of Punjab,

Corpses strewn on fields, and the Chenaab flowing with much blood.

Someone filled the five rivers with poison,

And this same water now irrigates our soil.

Where was lost the flute, where the songs of love sounded?

And all Ranjha`s brothers forgotten to play the flute.

Blood has rained on the soil, graves are oozing with blood,

The princesses of love cry their hearts out in the graveyards.

Today all the Quaido`ns have become the thieves of love and beauty,

Where can we find another one like Waris Shah?

Waris Shah! I say to you, speak from your grave

And add a new page to your book of love.

#55.

Gangubai Hangal is alive. Classical musical fans lost GaanTapaswini Smt. Moghubai Kurdikar (mother of Kishori Amonkar) this year (Feb, 2001).

Other singers with robust voice are Shobha Gurtu (famous for Khayals), Bhimsen Joshi. Some other classical singers I like are Kishori Amonkar, Malini Rajurkar, Anjanibai Malpekar, Kesarbai Kerkar, Ashwini Bhide, Padma Talwalkar, Prabha Atre. Looks like Maharashtrians have made a big contribution in classical music (vocal) and Bengalis in instrumental music.

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Dost mittar #54: People say no one would have known about nizam-ud-din aulia if it weren`t for amir khusro (i think i am relating them correctly). Someday people may say no one would have known about bulle shah if it wasn`t for abida parveen. I certainly fall into that category.

Bulle Shah was quite the sufi, from what I have read. Infact, if anyone is into Punjabiat, Sufism, philosophy, linking one religion to another etc., then his poetry is a must read. He was born in Bahawalpur in the 1680s, then moved to Kasur. He has written quite a bit about religious hypocrisy etc. He has been called a Vedantic Sufi by Hindu writers, i.e. because they feel his writings refer to religion and God in a very abstract form, thus combining the teachings of different religions.

``Denis Matringe puts forth the argument that many Punjabi Sufi poets make use of themes from Punjabi popular culture, which include Hindu traditions. Bulle Shah makes use of references to God as a yogi as much as he makes use of the Heer-Ranjha story. Mustansir Mir distinguishes between the critical aspect of Bulle Shah’s poetry, in which the poet criticises hypocrisy in religious practice, and the constructive aspect of poetry, which is decidedly Islamic in structure and detail......Robin Rinehart says, “The fact that Bulle Shah’s poetry has remained popular among Punjabis of different religious communities indicates that a serious study of his work may be a means of discovering common threads in the religious traditions of Punjab.” (http://www.tribuneindia.com/20010413/ldh1.htm)

``Your description of ``pabhan pbhaar`` was really poetic, especially from a military man :-).``

Why is it when someone has been in the military at some stage of their life, it is assumed they are in it for life?

``She rocks! or at least makes me rock from th waist up.``

Can I ask who makes you rock from the waist down? :-)

``Now, if only we could agree on Kashmir (sigh!).``

Very true. How about asking Bhulle Shah? See if you can find the second lines to the following two verses (i am not sure 100% if the second verse is by Bulle Shah, though). It will answer your question?

Chal Bulleah, chal uthay challiay, jithay saray annhay

?

and

Dha day masjid, dha day mandir, dha day jay kij dhainda aay

?

dost-mittar #55

[...Late Gangubai Hangal...]

Wallah! Last report was that she was alive and well.... Pls inform .... worried at this end. She is one of the few whom I have had the honour to touch the feet.

I would put Ustads Amir Khan, Bade Ghulam Ali Khan and Faiyaz Khan at the top of my list.

Amir Khan was the most understated phenomenon in Classical music for years to come. I think he reached his peak with his Hamsdhwani and Saraswati Vandana. Now these are numbers which make your hairs stand on end.

Even if he had not sung a single other number, Bade Ghulam Ali Khan would be remembered for his `Aye na balam` number. But the mood he gave to thumris ... even Begum Akhtar could come only that close.

As for Faiyaz Khan, there is a story that when he used to sing Malkaus, `prets` and `jinns` would come and listen. While he himself was extremely embarassed with all these stories, he does not remain the `Aftaab-e-mousiki` for nothing.

I have deliberately not added living singers in this since I don`t believe they have all achieved their best effort till date.

Mannyd #52

Saigal (btw that`s how he spelt his name) was Punjabi, but born in Jammu. But he always called Jullundhur as his home town.

I am not aware of any Punjabi numbers by him, only Hindi and Bengali (since he spent most of his active years in Calcutta).

`Babul Mora` is a classic, composed by Wajid Ali Shah, Nawab of Oudh. In your music classes, it is shown as what a Bhairavi thumri should be like. For the last 130 years or so, this has been sung by various singers, but none has reached the height of Saigal.

PS: If you are in any doubt -- SAIGAL RULES!

I might as well Add my little list in here

1. Yeh Jo Halka Halka Suroor Hai ( complete version ) by Ustad Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan

2. Ranjish He Sahih by Mehdi Hassan

3. Zindagi Bhar Nahin Bhoolay Gey Woh Barsaat Key Raat by Mohammed Rafi

4. Baat Niklay Gey Tau Phir Duur Talak Jaiey Gey by Jagjit Singh

5. Yeh Baatein Jhootey Baatein Hain by Abida Parveen

............

Acerbic Jazbati

Romair

``If you go beyond Sargodha from Lahore, toward Mianwali on any road, the only thing you will hear on the buses and wagons is Attaullah Niazi.``

I think I know the person you talk about. Isn`t he the one who sang ``Acha silla diya tuney mere pyar ka, Yaar ney he loot liya dil Yaar ka``

I first heard this song at the bustop which is right outside Birla Institute of Technology, In Pilani Rajasthan. This song became very popular and the rumor in India was that Attaullah killed his girlfriend and was in prison when he sang Accha Silla. Don`t know if its true or not...

Speaking of Abrar, he is now a philanthrapist, attempting to build a hospital. Check out www.saharaforlife.org

Someone told me he used to be a teacher in Aitchison College, before he sang Billo day ghar. I would say Abrar is the closest thing Pakistan has to Daler Mehndi. Abrar is not in the same league as Daler Mehndi, but Abrar`s punjabi is definitely very creative and more geared toward the common guy on the street.

SameerJB: For some reason Attaullah Niazi never gets the attention he deserves in the educated Pakistani crowd. If you go beyond Sargodha from Lahore, toward Mianwali on any road, the only thing you will hear on the buses and wagons is Attaullah Niazi. He is easily the most listened to singer in Punjab on the bus routes (perhaps Noor Jehan also, with her punjabi stuff).

I heard Ataullah`s girlfriend left him a long time ago, and since then he has been singing sad songs. If one listens to his cassettes closely, one can actually hearing him crying during some of the songs.

Ref DB Ji #45:

``Amrita Pritam has only one poem to her credit that probably every Punjabi remembers because it was not her poem but it was the people`s who were suffering in 1947 and she was only a medium to say it ..ujj aakhan wapis shah nu, kitay kabran wichon bol... ``

I always confused her with Rajkumari Amrit Kaur. Yes I vaguely remember this poem but I wonder if West Punjabis know it that well. If you find time, could you please submit a translation to the chowk or just post it on this thread?

Had to do a double take on `wapis` to realize a typo.

Samir Sahib,

I confess to be one of the unwashed masses weaned on Filmy muzak, but I am reading your and others` posts on classical music with great interest.

By the way, Surinder Kaur has an oldy `Lathe di Chaadar Uteey, Saleti Rang Mahiya`. Did you hear it and can you tell me if it has Pothohari Punjabi in it? What in the world is `` Ussi Kandhan da Mocha Moria``?

How is Gnostic? I hope he shows up here once in a while. He is a walking encyclopedia on classical music.

Dost Mittar Sahib:

Was Sehgal a Kashmiri or a Punjabi? I Never heard any Punjabi song of his before. Did he sing any other Punjabi songs?

Sadhna Ji:

Sehgal`s ``Babul mero`` is a great song from the thirties. I wonder if other singers tried their voices on it since then.

SameerJB:

I`ve heard some of your selection you posted. Will try out the rest.

Stuka:

Please don`t underestimate Junoon. I like Abrar too and always say he has the pulse of the nation on his fingertips. Recently I heard this beautiful `hamd` he wrote and sang during the independence day celebration. the guy writes ace lyrics. If there is anyone I can say is the IDEAL representative for Pakistanis and their desires, it is Abrar. BUT, Junoon is still Junoon. Granted Ali Azmat needs serious practice in vocal skills, but musically the amount of successful experimentation done by Junoon is unmatched by any modern band from the subcontinent.

Ref DB Ji #45:

``Amrita Pritam has only one poem to her credit that probably every Punjabi remembers because it was not her poem but it was the people`s who were suffering in 1947 and she was only a medium to say it ..ujj aakhan wapis shah nu, kitay kabran wichon bol... ``

I always confused her with Rajkumari Amrit Kaur. Yes I vaguely remember this poem but I wonder if West Punjabis know it that well. If you find time, could you please submit a translation to the chowk or just post it on this thread?

Had to do a double take on `wapis` to realize a typo.

Samir Sahib,

I confess to be one of the unwashed masses weaned on Filmy muzak, but I am reading your and others` posts on classical music with great interest.

By the way, Surinder Kaur has an oldy `Lathe di Chaadar Uteey, Saleti Rang Mahiya`. Did you hear it and can you tell me if it has Pothohari Punjabi in it? What in the world is `` Ussi Kandhan da Mocha Moria``?

How is Gnostic? I hope he shows up here once in a while. He is a walking encyclopedia on classical music.

Dost Mittar Sahib:

Was Sehgal a Kashmiri or a Punjabi? I Never heard any Punjabi song of his before. Did he sing any other Punjabi songs?

Sadhna Ji:

Sehgal`s ``Babul mero`` is a great song from the thirties. I wonder if other singers tried their voices on it since then.

Romair & DullaBhatti: I think you both are right in defining PabhhaN (pb)harr. It is basically perpetual unease, unsettled state, often used when it is caused by the conditions and no fault of your own. The blame goes to poor rain, bad crops, large family, cunning relatives, bewafa mehboob etc. (pb) sound becomes definite B as the accent changes going from east to west in Punjab, definite B for Ata Ullah Khan Isakhelvi.

Stuka: You must be talking about ``GT road te breakaN lagiaN, billo teri tor wekh je``. Another of my favorite from the same album is something like ``haq, haq kar bandya``

Soysauce #36: Veena Sahasrabuddhe is without a doubt, cuurently the queen of classical Indian music. She was introduced to me at chowk by a dear friend of mine, Gnostic. I do not have any of her CD but some of her music, as you pointed out, is available at mp3.com.

The problem with classical music is that most people do not have the background in classical music to really appreciate it. They listen to popular music for entertainment.

DullaBhatti: You are right about what you said in post #45. Oral traditions are more important in Punjabi language and poetry as well. They have passed across the Punjabi plains through word of mouth and with distinct music. A large number of them are folk songs for festive ocassions and often sung in chorus. A chorus represents active participation by common people. On the otherhand classical and ghazal singing was traditionally patronized by elite. The outlet for Urdu or philosophical poetry was mushairas which is not related to seasons or festivals. Poetry was often full time job of poets and for survival they needed patrons. Besides intellectual literary curiosity of the poets, pleasing the patron was most important thing. It was not until socialist poets started writing about common folks experience, like Sahir Ludhianvi, Majrooh Sultanpuri, Faiz etc.

Although you may feel great deal of interesr in poetry and ghazals at chowk but no ghazal record or CD, to the best of my knowledge, has outsold NFAK, qawwalis or folk collection. The ghazal listening phenomenon is very much limited to cities with more than high school education and more than 20-25 years old, in general.

DB #45: I have heard three definitions for this phrase. The first is the one you have given. The second is, ``pain.``

The best one I have heard implies pabbhan (pb)harr meaning someone attempting to look over their outside wall, waiting for his/her beloved to arrive. However, the person cannot see over the wall, so he/she has to stand on his/her toes. Now he/she can see over the wall, but cannot stay on his/her toes forever, because it is too painful. This act of standing on one`s toes in pain, while simulateneously waiting for someone to arrive, who isn`t showing up is called pabbhan (pb)harr (according to some).

Reply Neptune #40

“Na Na Jafor-da, tumi bhishon proletariat. Only anti-rebholution reacshanaries are bourgeois and nonshense.”

Thank you, I am reassured. Now off to read next chapter of Das Kapital. (Ki brilliant, na?)

nasah #41

While i think that women are SUPERIOR to men in every other way ;), when it comes to music, the female voice in the subcontinent tends to be high pitched and grating to me. Mrs. Subbulakshmi was an exception but she doesn`t move me as V.S. does. Samples of Veena`s music are available at mp3.com. Give it a listen if you can. Her bhajans are especially good, even tho i don`t understand a word of what she`s saying.

Neptune # 40

Na Na Jafor-da, tumi bhishon proletariat. Only anti-rebholution reacshanaries are bourgeois and nonshense.

Neptuneda,aapni kono din mithya kotha bolen naa,aami jaani tow:)

Nomoshkaar

Romair: ``PahbbaN bhaar`` signifies the perpetual unrest, continuous suffering, time passing too quickly etc. I think the ``MukhRa``(the repeating lines, ``matla``)and some other stanzas are written by Mazhar Tirzimi.

Stuka: There is a whole bunch of such songs as ``bharti ho jao``...songs about ``chhoTa parivaar sukhi parivaar``, nassbandi, how to prevent maleria, how and why kill mice in fields, polio de teekay lagwana etc:) Some of them used to be quite hillarious.(I remember when in school, school used to get choohay maar dawa that teachers used to give to students and organize them in groups to go through the village and fields and kill mice. Also ``laal dawai`` for the wells)

You remember the one `` BhaNDay kalli kara lo, vekho khaN zara Pandit jee ki ay laal mera?.

Sameer: Lyrics and songs don`t get popular because they say something deep, philosophical or arty but because they say something about common man`s emotions. Thats why some of our greatest poets of recent times don`t have a single poem that common man could remember. e.g Amrita Pritam has only one poem to her credit that probably every Punjabi remembers because it was not her poem but it was the people`s who were suffering in 1947 and she was only a medium to say it ..ujj aakhan wapis shah nu, kitay kabran wichon bol... after that she became too philosophical, un-enjoyable.

I am not into present day dhol Dhamakka and don;t listen to much bhangra music but once in a while I find some very powerfull imaginary in some songs by unknown poets. a line from one such song I heard few weeks ago `` asin chaadraN vashaunday rehge chaahRke, te sajjan gawanDoN murh gaye``...such a simple words but who ever lived in a village could easily relate to the pain in this lyric.

Check out www.teenstation.com

Lot of new desi music, but they also have a decent oldie collection. Some good regional music too.

To all the Punjabi devotees: Since we are on the subject, the third and four words of, ``umran langiya`` (sung by both Asad Amanat and Daler Mehndi) are ``pahbban parrh.`` What are the various meanings of this phrase in Punjabi....

``i don`t normally care for female singers``(Soysauce)

Why not?

Now here is remark to start a battle of sexes on this board like an ``alcohol`` war goinng on on another Chowk board.

Hmmm. Any comments, ladies.

You don`t think they are INFERIOR to men singers, by any means, soysauce -- do you?.

What about Puveen Sultans, Girja devi, Subhh Lakshmi ---prepare to take cover, soysauce.

Semipreciousme:

I didn`t mean to run down Junnon. Just think their image is too designer desi, even though the music is good. Reminds me of the people who speak Punjabi with clipped British accents at the Delhi Golf Club.

SammerJB: There is another song by Abrar, I can`t remember the name but it has something to do with GT Road. Also, talking of Bhaun, my absolute favorite Punjabi song is the one sang by Army recruiters during world war 2....

Bharti ho jao

Baahar khadey rangroot

O Bharti ho jao

This is a complete song and I`ll try and get the lyrics. It used to be sung by recruiting parties, and the lyrics bring out the rustic culture and lifestyle of the era in a beautiful manner.

Zafar #33

Na Na Jafor-da, tumi bhishon proletariat. Only anti-rebholution reacshanaries are bourgeois and nonshense.

A.J. Nabi,

What a lovely article. I too live in the earthquake belt [N.W.Canada ]Hmmmmm the thought of running with one`s favourite possessions at short notice is always there in the back of my mind. However my priorities keep changing with my mood.

If anyone remembers , there was a big threat of a huge flood approaching Karachi , sometime around `84.People were actually vacating parts of the city , filling their cars with gas ,loading it with everything they could , and preparing to fled.I thought everything for me was precious , most of all the fond memories in our newly bought town house soon after we got married .So i tried to narrow my list to a single item . My mind scanned a huge list of things, such as important documents, transcripts , favourite pieces of jewellery, my wedding outfit ,some nice pictures framed of the family, a few of my favourite books, and the list was odder and odder as it grew.. I asked my husband what he was planning to pack and he said `` just us ``. That changed the entire flow of thoughts . I felt ashamed at myself , for clutching onto items which seemed immediately worthless .However i was set in my mind , that i should take at least something .I would have felt a little daft if i had not , so again the thinking process began anew. Finally after going room to room, closet to closet , i picked the thing i would take with me .They were 3 large albums of my wedding photos. The darn photographer never gave out negatives, so in case the flood did come, perhaps his negatives, and my copies could have been swept away. So off they were packed , and i kept them in a plastic bag next to me.

With kids for the longest time it has been their childhood videos .

When my husband and kids dont listen to me , and i am left screaming at them, then it is my cd`s which are brought into a closer focus.

I liked your collection, so i wont bother keeping those .However i see Chandan Daas missing. Some of my favourites of his are

1. dil na miltae to mulaqat adhooree rehtee

2.sub ko dushman bana liya mey ney .

3. Aap ka pyar miley ga to sanwar jaien gey .

Now , let me know where you plan to head, i will follow you ..... shirin x 4 of us ..... we`ll swap cd`s ... how`s that ?

love,

sa:)

Hmm ... interesting debate ...

I`ve been visiting Chowk for quite some time now but this is the first time I feel compelled to participate in a discussion ...

Its interesting that the author has the heart to nominate ten songs as his favourites !! I mean I, for one, would never be able to decide which one to include or which to exclude !!! How can one include `Insha jee utho` by Ustad Amanat Ali Khan and forget about `Honton pay kabhi` by the same singer ... Plus talkin` of Lata or Kishore or Rafi, it would be hard enough selecting their respective best ten songs, rather than selecting one from each singer ...

One more thing in the discussion which kinda disappointed me was that there`s no mention of Tina Sani ... I mean her `Bol kay lab azad hain teray`, `Bahar aai`, `Gar tujhay is ka yaqeen ho`, `Ae Masjid-e-Qartaba`, etc. etc. are my all time favourites !!!

And hey, nobody talks bad of Junoon ... Junoon rocks :)

stuka,

``Also, and yes this is bringing in a populist touch to a hitherto elitist discussion, who can forget Nazia Hassan?``

....not i. who can forget aap jaisa koi? i think her disco deewane still holds the record for the best selling album in south asia

``Currently, I like the guy who sang Billo dey Ghar, Abrar.``

....yeah, he`s pretty big in pakistan, and with an ego to match

``He`s more earthy and son of the soil type than Junoon shunoon``

......here i must disagree:) i quite like junoon shunoon....it was their music which introduced me to sufiyana kalam

One way to rank the worth of a singer is how much one would pay to buy his/her recordings and/or go to his/her concert. Top ten South Asian singers (Urdu/Punjabi; only two languages I understand), still singing, I would pay the most money to see/hear (not in any order):

-Daler Mendhi (the ex-Silicon Valley cab driver parties like no one else. He also sang a version of umran langiyan)

-Lucky Ali (just found out he is Mahmood`s son; his socially conscious songs are a treat; the Dave Mathews of South Asia or vice versa)

-Jagjit Singh (Kaghaz ki kashti and Chodween ki raat are the two best geets ever sung)

-Pankaj Udhas (the best and most entertaining combination of ghazals mixed with geets)

- Ghulam Ali (the most melodious ghazal voice in South Asia; meray shauq da naeen aitebar tainu is the best punjabi ghazal of all time)

- Attaullah Niazi Esa Khelwi (the most popular punjabi (Mianwali style) singer, by far, on the stereos of Pakistani buses; Dard ka safeer (Ambassador of sorrow); actually starts crying while singing; his orchestra`s flute player is the best; Balo Battian is a classic; made a pilgrimage to his village of Esa Khel, next to Mianwali, once to pay respects)

- Asha Bosle (the second best female voice in South Asia, next to Lata. Lata has not crossed over to the new stuff like Asha, however. And Lata`s concerts are quite boring. Asha is more entertaining)

- Janice Miller (An American singer, who doesn`t speak Urdu, but can sing Urdu, Punjabi, Hindi, Saraki etc. songs like an expert)

- Sabri Qawwal (Easily the best traditional qawwali singers of all time. I believe one of the brothers has passed away, however.)

- Abida Parveen (Bhulay Shah is my favorite. And no one sings him like Abida.)

same old, same old...

It`s mostly north ``indian`` and filmi music.

If i ever made a list, Veena Sahasrabuddhe would top it. She has a haunting, beautiful voice and i don`t normally care for female singers (she is the only indian female in my collection).

Stuka #26: I liked your post about no junoon shunoon here. I also like Abrar Ahmed. He is young and hopefully around for many many years. Both of his albums were super hits, Billo and Beh ja saikal te, maiN talliaN wjanda jaun. Shazia Manzoor is another one to keep an eye on. She has already sang some of the famous oldies and some new ones. By the way, Abrar was a student at my Alma mater, Quaid-e-Azam University, Islamabad before hitting big. I do not think he is from Pind Dadan Khan or Bhaun-hehehe

DullaBhatti: You selection is impressive. Nobody has done what Surjit Kaur/ Parkash Kaur did for Punjabi music. The people in the villages still listen to their cassettes more than modern ones. What about Sui we sui and Kala doria kunde naal.....they are great. Another good song is Chan kithaN guzari aei raat ve by Ata-Ullah Khan. What can I say about Hans Raj Hans. He is probably the best Punjabi singer right now.

dost-mittar #29: Let me use my trump card here against all of your selection. It is Munir Niazi`s ghazal-Us bewafa ka shehr hey aur hum haiN dosto. Listen to this, not by Musarrat Nazir but Munawwar Sultana??? It is Us and not US, otherwise F_K will be posting his usual bewafa US and west stuff.

Other gem:

1. Jagjit Singh-Loh-e-mazar thee na koi saugawar tha

2. Ghulam Ali-Mere shauq da naeeN ehtabar tenuN-Ghalib`s punjabi translation by Ghulam???

3. Ustad Amanat Ali Khan-HontuN pe kabhi unke mera naam he aaye-Ada jafri

4. Habib Wali Mohammed-Na kisi kee aankh ka noor huN and aey nigar-e-watan tu salamat rahey

5. Geeta Dutt-Ae dil mujhe bata de tu kiss pe aa gaya hey

6. Surriya-just forgot???

7. Najma-Aadmi ko bhi muyassir naheeN insaN hona-Ghalib

8. Talat Mahmood-Tum ko fursat ho meri jaan to idhar dekh to lo.

Do you remember that famous qawwali by Lata/ Asha and Shamshad Begum? Was it na to karvan kee talash hey?

Shima: Parosan is my all time favorite movie also. I love watching Mahmood playing Tamil music teacher. Yup! ik chatur naar kar ke singhar....By the way his son, Lucky Ali is into singing and doing fine.

Reply Neptune #27

“No RabindraSangeet???!!?? All you bourgeoise!! Shame on you!”

Ki? Ami bourgeoise? Tumi ki SHAMELESS Neptunedada! Now Tagore, yes, Tagore was a bourgeoise (floating up and down the Hooghly in a barge doing hushti nushti ont he way to his baganbari) but the people`s struggle is (as should be obvious) well represented on Chowk...

dost mittar,

among all the greats, it was nice to see your vote for Zakir Hussein!

When I was a young boy the song ``mummi ne meri tujhe chai pe bulayea hai`` sounded the best song...my heart used to start beating like crazy at the imagination of the possibilities on the chai table...(talk about being a paindoo!huh)...but after the ``chai pe bulayea`` incident happened in real life...I think it was a rip off.(I mean the song, not the chai wale hosts:-)).

I love the Punjabi folk tales and Sufi music in general. Everything else I like few days and then forget like it does not even exist. Here is my list without which life won`t be worth living.

1. NFAK: Sultan Bahu and Mian Mohammad Bakhash`s kalam.(30 min each).

2. Pathane Khan: mayeiN ni main kehnu aakhaN, dard wichoRay da haal.

3. Puran Shahkoti: saiyeO ni asiN nainaN de aakhay laggay

4. Alam Lohar: Mirza (Jatta putter moye nai bhulde, bhaweiN hoke marn faqeer...wah that just kills me)

5. Shazia Mansoor: saRkay saRkay jandiye mutiaare ni, kanDa chuba tere pair bankiye naaray ne.

6. Surinder Kaur: aa vas mandRay koll, dhol sipahiaRa...(Ghulam Farid`s kalam)

7. Hans Raj Hans: sanu tere shehar diyaN paiNDeyaN ne kha liya

8. Parkash Kaur: jutti kasoori pairee na poori haye Rabba ve sanu turna piya

9. Assad Amanat Ali: UmmeraN langhiyaN pabhaN bhaar.

10. bol mitti diya baweya (many diff singers)

What about Mehdi Hassan?

Whaat?????

No RabindraSangeet???!!?? All you bourgeoise!! Shame on you!

Whaat?????

No RabindraSangeet???!!?? All you bourgeoise!! Shame on you!

Man people on Chowk have such classy tastes in music. I`m very impressed. I do know the song you refer to by Kishore Kumar, quite by accident ofcourse, and like it a lot.

My fav desi music is anything that involves Amitabh Bacchan. (I can feel the groans going around, but please bear with me). The Gen Xers of South Asia are kids of the 70s and 80s. Amitabh was king. Okay he was not a singer himself, but the songs he got in movies were great.

The one song I know he sang was in Mr Natwarlal. ``Challa ja raha tha....`` But also Silsila, Shaan, Sholay, Kaalia, Amar Akbar Anthony....all great movies with great songs.

Also, and yes this is bringing in a populist touch to a hitherto elitist discussion, who can forget Nazia Hassan? Currently, I like the guy who sang Billo dey Ghar, Abrar. He`s more earthy and son of the soil type than Junoon shunoon. Immitation being the sincerest form of flattery, Abrar should be very flattered from the response across the border from India.

P.S.: This is such a nice topic. A sincere request to all Chowkies (myself included) to please not bring Kashmir, religion, politics in this board. There are many other boards that can be soiled.

South Asian music and no place for Ustaad Karim Khan, Ustaad Nazaakat Ali Khan,Salaamat Ali Khan,

Lalguddi Jayaraman,Amjad Ali Khan,Ustaad AliAkbar

Khan,Pandit Ravi Shankar,Pandit Hari Prasad Chaurasia,Ustaad Amir Khan,Ustaad Umrao Bundu Khan,Ustaad Sultan Khan,Parween Sultana,Roshan Aara Begum,Begum Akhtar,Girija Devi, Farida Khanum and Ustaad Allah Rakha.

Intrestingly,there were a few interactors with

Iqbal Bano and a single interactor for Bhimsen Joshi.Probably,its all a matter of taste and the

taste changes with the passage of time.

Regards.

HN #20

Yes, I too enjoy the songs which has good lyrics to it. But they mostly belong to the melodious variety. For dance, excersice or just simple fun one needs more peppy music and there the lyrics dosn`t matter.

Besides Hindi/ Urdu songs their are some English songs as well with great lyrics like ``You fill up my sense``, ``Love Story``, ``Evergreen Tree`` and so may more.

But one must agree that even great lyrics with bad music just does not appeal.

Mona

AJ NABI, is that really your name or is it just a moniker (ajnabi?)

I am confused you keep narrating your experiences in Peshawar and Rawalpindi and then you are nostalgic about your childhood in INDIA?

Anyway, are you going to put these songs up on some web-site to be downloaded? Maybe, on morpheus so all of us can share your tastes.

IMO, appreciation of music is like enjoying a flower garden or a sumptuous feast, in that the wide variety available enhances the special beauty of a few.

For instance, apart from the large variety available in Hindustani and Carnatic classical music, Begum Akhtar is just wonderful in `Woh jo hum me tum me qaraar thaa` and DV Paluskar in his bhajans, and Saigal in his `Baabul moraa naihar chooto`, and Yesudas in his Ayappa devotionals, etc but items like traditional folk music and `boondo`n se baathe`n` have their place too.

So I suggest you run with your whole collection :).

Hmmm....must go see if I can find some of those, since the ones I knew I liked.

But you left out MS Subulakshmi! Have you heard her? Her traditional carnatic style stuff is absolutely wonderful (do not accept her attempts at hindi bhajans, where her light unfortunately does not shine as it should).

Sameer, like any other matter you show extreme patience in music too. Well, I kind of like the songs which last for five minutes or so. While I also like Malika Pukhraj`s `` Abhi to main jawan hoo`` I like all the light oldies from Hindi movies along with the heavy ones. Some of them would be ``Ek chatur nar bare hoshiaar`` (Manna Dey and Kishore Kumar) from Parosan, ``Meri pyari Bindu, Meri Sinduri Bindu`` by KK from the same film, ``Hum Kale Haito Kya Hua Dilbale Hai`` by Rafi in Gumnam, ``Hum jindegi ki sath nivata chala gaya``, ``Dil ka bhamar kare pukar`` of Rafi.



Can go on forever, this is the most favorite topic of mine. While I work, musicIndia on-line is always at the back playing..... How I wish we exchanged gazal, not golis. Remember the song of Rafi set at Kashmir? ``Ai Phulo ki Rani, Baharo Ki malika, tera muskarana gazab ho gya``......Now the films are shot at New Zealand, Switzerland, Alaska... Does not feel the same.

A pleasant collection. I liked the piece very much too. Can I add to Ras` concern for The Shah of Chicago.

Some of the pieces are so difficult to get hold of. Your Kishore song...have not heard of that. Can you give some more details...of that song.

Little to add on music though. Wonder if Sameer and others here can give me some explanation of this particular concern of mine. As far as film music is concerned...i have felt that i relate to the lyrics more than the music. That might be the reason why i have not enjoyed a lot of western music.

Any insights...similar-dissimmilar experiences...

aj nabi,

whatever happened to the shah of chicago?

Ras Siddiqui,

``Anyway for a quick input here:

1) ``Mujh Say Pehli Si Mohabbat``: Madam Noor Jahan

2) ``Allah Hoo``: Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan``

........now that`s music to my ears:)

dost-mittar #14: Here are some gems which come to my mind, not in any particular order:

1. Pathana Khan-AsaN talub sayeeN de naam dee

2. Alam Lohar-Ley tuN wekh jadola bar da-Mirza SahibaaN

3. ReshmaN-Heer aakhdi jogya jhoot bolaiN-Heer

4. Bare Ghulam Ali Khan-SayyaN gaye Pardes-Dadra

6. Noor Jehan-Mujh se pehli si mohabbat-Faiz

7. Mehdi Hassan-Dekh to dil ke jaaN se-Mir

8. Malika Pukhraj-Abhi to maiN jawan hoon-Hafeez

9. Shamshad Begum-Bare mushkil se dil kee beqarari

10.Lata-Bachpan kee mohabbat ko dil se na juda karna

11. Kishore Kumar-chingari koi bharhke and pal pal dil ke pass

12. Manna Dey-Yeh hichkee sharab kee naheeN hey dosto

13. Pradeep Kumar-Pinjrey ke panchee rey

14. Dilshad Akhtar-Dil wich wasna aeN, rehnaN haiN akhian tuN dur wey

15. Malkit Singh-Jugni

16. Nusrat F. A. Khan-Rabba lakh lakh shukr manawaN, je kadi mera yaar mil jaye

Top Ten South Asian pieces of music - that`s just top ten in Hindi/Urdu guys. There are at least twenty other South Asian languages from which to pick the top ten.

Its a bit like Don Bradman picking seven Aussies in his dream team.

hmmm where I live we dont have earthquakes but constant annoying fire-alarms. So next time I am instructed to ``head to the nearest exit, donot use elevators ...`` and walk down X # of floors will listen to these !! Well someone`s attempting to cook(??) AGAIN so got to go ! thks -

The write up is so cute.. I agree with most of your choice, except that my list would *have * to include Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan. What are your thoughts on him?

I do not understand why Mr. KumarGandharva is called `bad boy`of Indian classical music. Can anybody explain the remark of writer. I have heard his music on musicindialine.com and one of the most spiritual music and very touching. Sure he is not a singer travelling on beaten path. He is unique in his interpretation of notes and mastery of vocal cords. He is one of few singers of Indian classical who can be sweet without all support of background music.

Due to Internet I am able to listen to many new very good classical musicians. I do enjoy Rashid Khan and Ulhas Kashalkar of young Indian Musicians. In Pakistan Indian classical music (Hindustani) is dead practically. I feel good that Indians have kept alive classical music and progressing. I was told indian classical music was on `oxygen` for some times after freedom of 47. (Due to loss of support from princely states). I tried to get CDs -Mr. K Gandharva`s songs on cd or casset but could not. (In Karachi we have all hindi film music ,here I think mostly old well to do people of old India enjoy classical music- vanishing tribe, not consumer base for pirating) .

I will be grateful if somebody can give E-address to buy Mr. K.Gandharva`s music CD. My children in USA can send me.

Lastly how old is above singer, his picture appears to be in early 50s. Does he sings `filmy` music?

Good day everybody.

1. KL Sehgal-- Dil julta hai to julne dey

2. Punkuj Malik-–yeh raaten yeh muasum yeh huNsna hasana

3. Kishore Kumar--Jug mug jug mug karta nikla chand gagun ka piyara

4. Talat Mahmood--yeh hawa yeh raat yeh chandnee teri ek ada pey nisaar hai

5. Mohammad Rafi-–zindagi bhur nahi bhule gee ye barsaat ki raat

6. Noor Jahan--Mujh se pahli si muhabbat mere



7. Bade Ghulam Ali--Ka karoon sajni aye na baalum

8. Jagjeet Singh--Sarakti jai hai sur se niqaab ahista ahista

9. Mehdi Hasan-- Gulon mein rung bharey

10. Nusrut Fateh Ali Khan--Must qalandar must must

How can you NOT have Ustad Bismillah Khan`s shehnai recitals on this list?

HOW ABOUT TOP TEN BREAK UP VILAYTI SONGS

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



http://aolsvc.aol.music.getmusic.com/features/breakupclips

1. ``All or Nothing`` by O-Town

2. ``Unbreak My Heart`` by Toni Braxton

3. ``Gone`` by *NSYNC

4. ``I Will Survive`` by Gloria Gaynor

5. ``Don`t Speak`` by No Doubt

6. ``Fallin``` by Alicia Keys

7. ``Survivor`` by Destiny`s Child

8. ``Bye Bye Bye`` by *NSYNC

9. ``All Cried Out`` by Allure

10. ``Hit `Em Up Style (Oops!)`` by Blu Cantrell

A.J.

What happened to the rest of your novel?

Anyway for a quick input here:


1) ``Mujh Say Pehli Si Mohabbat``: Madam Noor Jahan

2) ``Allah Hoo``: Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan

3) ``Hum Dekhain Gay``: Iqbal Bano

4) ``Chalte Chalte``: Lata

5) ``Tum Na Janay Kis Jahan mein Kho Gayay``: Lata

6) ``Chandni Raatain``: Madam Noor Jahan

7) ``Ranjish hi Sahi``: Mehdi Hassan

8) ``Chupkay Chupkay`` or ``Awaargi`` Ghulam Ali

9) ``Jub Say Tu Nay``: Abida Parveen.

10) ``Mirza Ghalib`` soundtrack songs: Jagjit Singh

Ras

`90-`00:

1) Jab kisi ki taraf dil jukhney lagay

2) Gali may aaj chand nikla--Zakhm

3) Ek din aap youn ham ko mil jain gay--Yes Boss

4) Meri sanson may basa hai tera hi ek naam--Aur pyar ho gaya

5) Chitti na koi sandes, janey woh kon sa des--DUSHMAN

6) Chanda re, chanda re, kabhi to zamin par a-SAPNAY

7) Tadap tadap kay is dil sey aah nikal ti rahi-HDDCS

8) Mast--Mast

9) Aye ho meri zindagi may tum--Raja Hindustani

OLDIES:

Khilona jan kar tum to mera dil tor jatey ho

*Zindagi deney waley sun, teri duniya say dil bhar gaya *

Koi jab tumhara ridey tor day, tarapta hua jab tumhey chor day

Dushman na karey dost nay woh kaam kiya hai

Honthon say choolo tum , mera geet amar kardo

O sathi re, terey bina bhi kya jeena

the list goes on...to part 2 (which i`ll prob. post later)....phew......

Ok sorry i dont know too many of the good songs from the 90`s and this year but i will tell you what kind of cd i would make or buy with all the hits

Love songs- Amitabh ji`s

Kabhi kabhi

o sathi re- from muqadar ka siqandar

are janey kaise kab kahan- from shakti

Dance songs- Amitabh ji`s

Rang Barse- Silsila

Mach gaya shor- Khud Daar

other ones i cant remember at this time

Marriage- Amitabh ji`s

Khabhi khabhi

the one he sings for his sister in Aaj ka arjun

Sadness- Amitabh ji`s

Dekh saktha houn- Majboor *a really good one

Manzilen apni jagah hain- sharabi

Meet na milan re man ka- abhiman

Tum bhi chalo hum bhi chaleyn-Zanjeer

Funny- Amitabh ji`s

eer bir phatte-Aby baby

Padosan apni murghi ko rakhna sambhal-jadugar

Mere angene mein- laawaris

hehehe

There is a song from Amitabh ji`s movies for every emotion

i know this wasn`t quite what you had asked for but this is what came in my head for the best of the best cd all of His work

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adaab!

great choices on the whole--but what?! no Mehdi Hassan or Ghulam Ali in what is predominantly a ghazal collection?

And to the list of great film sound-tracks (Pakeezah and Umrao Jaan are my favourites alongside)--what? no Mughal-e-Azam?! :-)

And I cannot help and notice the absence of Ustad Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan sahib (Allah Bakhshay)!

But apart from these slips--a very nice choice!

Oh! And though I dont know that piece of classical music you picked--how can you omit Ustad Nikhil Bannerjee`s awesome and moving rendition of Raag Bhimpalasi on the sitar?

My all-time favourite piece of classical music!

:-)

Of course if I had to pick another album I would pick one of naats by Syed FaseeHuddin Suharvardi too--probably his rendition in his amazing voice of Ala Hazrat`s kalam.

(If I was making a choice of albums this would be my first one)

Good idea for a change. Your selection is pretty good though I must admit that I have never heard of Kishore Kumar`s, Tamil one and first Bhajan. Is there any website one can listen to these rare songs?

Your choice seems mostly of fatalistic songs. Try some folk songs about union and not the sad songs about seperation.

My choice will always include Noor Jehan`s Awaz de kahaN hey and Malika Pukhraj`s Abhi to maiN jawan huN. What I really dislike is the the short 3-4 minute duration of movie songs. A good melody or tune must last for about 10 minutes to really enjoy it. That is why, a good non-movie song, ghazal or classical rendition is much better than a good movie song. Whenever I hear Awaz de kahaN hey, I always felt that Tanveer Naqvi or whoever wrote that song and the director of the movie should have added couple of more stanza to the song. I enjoy long songs like mere mahboob tujhe meri mohabbat kee kasam or akhyoN key jharokey se maiN ney dekha jo sanwrey, tum dur nazar aaye etc.

I look forward to a good exchange of opinion about music and songs on this thread.

AJ Nabi:

This was a really enjoyable piece. I will definately grab some of the selections you selected in the list.

You should put this selection outside your home so when you run out during the earthquake, you could rattle yourself with beautiful music as you wait for the aftershocks to recede. Plus your surviving neighbors can be acquainted with the beauty of South Asian music.

More on BHENDI BAZAR GHARANA

The founders of this Gharana (School of Hindustani Classical Music) were the three brothers viz. Ustad Chhaju Khan, Najir Khan and Khadim Hussain Khan, all of whom were trained by their father, Ustad Dilawar Khan. All three brothers settled in Mumbai in the area known as Bhendi Bazar and hence the name of this Gharana. The three stalwarts of this school of music were Gana – tapasvini Smt. Anjanibai Malpekar (teacher of Kishori Amonkar) , Shri Pandurang Amberkar Amanali Khan (son of Ustad Chhaju Khan) and Amir Khan. Shri Pandurang Amberkar was a disciple of Ustad Aman Ali Khan Saheb.

The Bhendi Bazar Gharana is known for its special compositions called Bandish. Ustad Chhaju Khan Saheb composed many exquisite ‘Bandish’ under the pseudo-name ‘Amar’. Following the footsteps of his father, Aman Ali Khan Saheb also composed a number of ‘Bandish’ under the same pseudo-name. The name ‘Amar’ therefore, has become the hallmark of the ‘Gharana’. One finds a delightful mixture of ‘Shabda’, ‘Sur’ and ‘Laya’ (Words, Notes & Tempo) in these compositions.

The prominent characteristics of this school is ‘Alapi’ enriched with Ghamak, Soot, and Meend. This requires a tremendous breath control, a systematic presentation of the ‘Bandish’ and its embellished improvisation according to structure of of the ‘Raga’. The entire rendering of the ‘Raga’ is based on the system called ‘Merukhanda’. ‘Merakhanda Gayaki’ is a system of various permutation and combinations of a given set of notes. This style brings out brings out the beauty and melody of the ‘Raga’ in an elaborate and aesthetically rich manner.

Another feature of this school is the blending of the Karnataka Music with the Hindustani Music. Amanali Khan Saheb had made a special study of the Karnataki Music and introduced some of the Karnataka ‘Ragas’ like Hansdhwani and ‘Pratap Warali’ in the Hindustani Music. He also made a very clever use of beautiful ‘Sargama’ of the Karnataka Music.

Has anyone heard recordings of Gaan Tapaswini Anjanibai Malpekar. She is from the Bhendi Bazar Gharana and was the Guru if noted singer Kishori Amonkar (Her mother Moghubai Kurdikar was her guru too). Here is the profile of Anjanibai Malpekar.

Gaan Tapaswini Anjanibai Malpekar

Background

Anjanibai Malpekar was born on April 22,1883. She started learning under the strict guidance of Ustad Nazir Khan of Moradabad Uttar Pradesh, since the young age of eight. Her Ustad, along with his brothers Haji Vilayat Hussain Khan and Khadim Hussain Khan shifted to the Bhendi Bazar area of Mumbai and consequently, their style came to be known after this area.

Style

Anjanibai Malpekar represented the Bhendi Bazar Gharana, which stressed on Khayal singing. The basic feature of this style was its dance oriented structure and singing of the sargam as part of the Khayal. The representatives of this Gharana also borrowed rare and beautiful Ragas such as Hamsdhwani and others, from the Carnatic repertoire. The Khayal rendition, in Madhyalaya or Drut Madhyalaya in this Gharana was aesthetic and marked by delicacy. Besides Khayal, Anjanibai also mastered light classical and light music.

Achievements

Anjanibai’s first performance was at Muzaffarabad Hall, in Central Bombay in 1899. This was followed by performances all over the country. She won a number of awards and her fame spread far and wide. It is said that Pandit Vishnu Narayan Bhatkhande took her help in writing sargams for complicated taans.

Anjanibai had to face a number of difficult situations in the course of her musical career. She lost her voice quite suddenly, which she regained through the blessings of a saint. No sooner had she recovered, that she lost her Ustad, her husband, mother and her spiritual guru in quick succession. This series of personal tragedies made Anjanibai give up performing altogether. However, she continued to guide students and musicians till the end of her days. Anjanibai died on 7th August 1974.

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