Top Ten South Asian Pieces of Music

One day Anjanibai malpekar suddenly lost her voice.
Then she went to excelent doctors but she did not get her excellent voice. Then her well-wisher Mr.Kothare and Mr.Vinayakrao mulgaonkar went to the greate saint sadguru Shree Narayana Maharaj bet, kedgaon dist. pune. And they told above thing to Shree Narayana Maharaj.Then Shree Narayana Maharaj gave some prasad and said, give this to Anjanibai Malpekar.Then both well-wisher came to Anjanibai malpekar.They gave this prasad to Anjanibai Malpekar. And what a Surprise, She get her original voice again. And
Then Anjanibai malpekar went to bet. And take a darshan.
Today I have all the details about This.

AJ,
Im surprised there`s no mention of the legends of Pakistan when you speak about the greatest pieces of music. No Noor Jehan, Iqbal Bano, or Nayyara Noor? That`s really sad, but more disappointing actually. There were many other singers/musicians who gave more to desi music than some you mentioned.
but a nice job overall...
Z

Music must have soul :Kishori Amonkar

By: Narendra Kusnur

December 24,2001

Vocalist Kishori Amonkar is impressed with the packaging of her latest album Sampradaya, specially the accompanying booklet. For her, it`s a very special album because it pays tribute to her mother and guru Mogubai Kurdikar, who passed away in February.

The album, recorded at a concert in London last year, has been released by Sony Nad Navras. It contains the morning raags Alhaiya Bilawal and Jeevanpuri, besides a 15-minute composition in Bhairavi.

The singer will be performing at Juhu`s Iskcon Auditorium tomorrow morning (25.12.2001). Three days before the concert, she talks about her music, her mother and her latest project. Excerpts:

In what specific areas did your mother affect your musical thought?

She taught me how to look at this art, and she told me I was not in the field of entertainment. Rather, she told me this is the art where one can find divinity. I look at this art as a path towards peace.

Though you use the Jaipur-Atrauli gharana as your base, what made you imbibe features of other schools?

I have only widened the premises of the Jaipur gharana. As I continued learning, I realised that this art is emotive. Each raag has a feeling, and I tried to bring this out. To bring more soul into my singing, I introduced new elements. Music has to have soul, because that is the real feeling. I also believe in the universality of music. That`s why I would think beyond one gharana. But my base remains the Jaipur gharana.

Your style is characterised by the use of various kinds of taans like bol-taans and akaar-taans. But what do you feel about the practise of singing sargams, which many other musicians follow?

Indian classical music is not a show of technique. It strictly deals with the world of notes. While singing, one should know what notes one is singing without naming them. Does that answer your question?

A lot of classical music has become gimmicky of late. What`s the reason for that?

Many musicians are thinking of technique more than purpose. And to show their technique, they resort to gimmicks. But a certain mood has to be conveyed in each raag, and by getting gimmicky, one can`t convey that mood.

What factors do you keep in mind while choosing a raag for a concert?

It usually takes me 15 or 20 days to get into focus before a concert. But I have to be in the correct frame of mind. The raag is chosen on the basis of the mood I want to portray, because it`s a challenge to express that mood.

At some concerts, you also render raags like Kukubh Bilawal, Hansakankani and Bhinna Shadja, which many contemporary singers don`t present...

They are known raags, and I don`t know why others aren`t singing them too often. I like them because they are very aesthetic.

Why have you been increasingly using a violin in your concerts?

The person who plays the violin (Milind Raikar) is learning from me and is well-versed with my style. Since he knows what I want, I am happy using it.

Finally, there`s been a lot of talk about how to promote classical music among the younger generation. What are your views on this subject?

I wonder why we have reached a stage where we should promote something beautiful, divine and which gives you peace.

Music, poetry and literature reflect a personal taste and goes back to early stages of a person`s life. However, I could not escape noticing that the selection is tilted towards sad and spiritual songs. In the subcontinent, there has been a long era of tragic songs and tragedy films.

Later on it changed and gave way to violence. The violence was shown as a reaction to injustice. Slowly it is fading away giving in to romantic films.

If you like to survive and come out of natural disaster then you need upbeat songs that can encourage and motivate to come out of the situation. I believe that Jazaba Junoon sung by Junoon is one of the songs that inspires courage. Similarly there are many such songs. The question is whether one wants to come out or stay there.

semipreciousme #209 ``a while back there was a group of flamenco dancers flown in from spain to lahore....man, they had the whole place moving in no time!``

Did I tell you about the cute, slim belly dancers from Turkey that once came to a military camp near Murree as part of a ``Turkish Cultural Exchange Group`` and had the chaps sit in shock as they jumped half-naked on the stage?

stuka...check out `laal meri` by junoon..the beginning is mind blowing.tell me if u like it as much

Reply semipreciousme, scout

The flamenco/kathak connection (relationship) is actually quite phenomenal. Flamenco is the only music form outside of South Asia that I`ve heard of that has a thaal system. Re: Carmen Amaya - if you run across any of her stuff, give it a listen. I`m sure you`d enjoy it.

scout

``Zafar #203,

unfortunately not, though i think Flamenco is one of the most beautiful dance and rhythm combinations in the world besides Kathak.``

......also very infectious.......a while back there was a group of flamenco dancers flown in from spain to lahore....man, they had the whole place moving in no time!

Zafar #203,

unfortunately not, though i think Flamenco is one of the most beautiful dance and rhythm combinations in the world besides Kathak.

http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/

http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/

A.J.Nabi sahib,

If you are in Tajikistan you must be fluent in Farsi as well.

Please look for Cds & tapes by Nashanaas.He is an Afghani who has sung in Urdu,Farsi,and pushto.

Somesay,and I tend to agree,that after Saigal & Begum Akhtar no greater voice has obliged Ghazal as much.

Ahmed Zahir is very good as well.

WASSALAAM.

Every other Punjabi song I hear from Pakistan is written buy S.M. Sadiq and every other Bhangra song in the market is written by Shamsher Sandhu.

Sameer, any words on SM Sadiq, who is this guy?

Shamsher Sandhu is curretnly one of the Editors of second largest Punjabi daily, Punjabi Tribune. He started as a Bollywood reporter telling spicy stories of stars and also used to write short stories. Now he produces music videos and audio on his own. It is rumoured that other writers give him their lyrics which are sung under his name which is entirely possible. Many singers in the past have bought songs and brought them to the market as their own.

Digression to Scout and RSaxena

Are you two Spanish speakers familiar with the singing of Carmen Amaya? Dead and lamented now...but something that appeals to the desi ear (at least to mine), flamenco of course (like so much else, ahem) having its roots in India...

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AnNy

Thanks so much for telling me about that website. Its got some great stuff. I didn`t however find Hassan Jahangir there. He`s not even listed when I scroll down for the artists.

Had a great time listening to Nazia Hassan though. Brought back a flood of memories..

Thanks again

Stuka

P.S. If you do fiND Hassan Jahangir on the site, can you gimme a pointer on hew to get to his stuff..

mannyd #193: There may be many sites where you can listen to punjabi new and old music. I am not much active in listening to music on internet. I think www.sadapunjab.com, www.punjabi.net and www.apnaorg.com have some decent collection of punjabi music. I only listen to internet music when I feel like listening to Rafi or Shamshad Begum`s old Punjabi songs. Sada Punjab had pretty good line-up but recently they are reconctructing their site and it might be a while before they have all the songs. Try www.punjabi.net.

Once I was just curious to know if Mukesh sung some Punjabi songs and if they are available somewhere on the internet but could not find any!

Ref: Neptune # 196

: Tantralogician # 197

Thanks a lot gentlemen. Quite an artist, our poor Nawab. I think Google is the best thing since sliced bread. Thanks again.

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Ref: Neptune # 196

: Tantralogician # 197

Thanks a lot gentlemen. Quite an artist, our poor Nawab. I think Google is the best thing since sliced bread. Thanks again.

Reply to #195

Mannyd writes: ``If you find time, can you shed some light on Wajid Ali Shah please?``

Go to this site and do a search on the keyword ``wajid ali shah``

http://groups.google.com/

tantralogician

Mannyd #194

[If you find time, can you shed some light on Wajid Ali Shah please? Was he the same guy in Prem Chand`s ``Shatranj Ke Khilari`` or somehow related to him?]

Yes indeed one and the same. He was a most curious character who spent his time in the pursuit of arts and women rather than statecraft. However, the art world is thankful for that. He was an accomplished singer, a trained Kathak dancer and a well-known actor. He composed plays as well as shows based on `raas-leela`. He was also the composer of the first opera based on Indian music `Indrasabha`. And of course he has enough songs, thumris and the like to his name to make his name immortal.

Check out this site:

http://www.dhadkan.com/cgi-bin/dhadkan/profiles.cgi?artistID=1238&jnd=C

REF TA321 # 181:

Welcome back TA Sahib.

`` A set of 15 CDs of Lata Mangeshkar. For Rs. 90 each. Great quality. I understand even this is a small fraction of the over 3,000 songs that the Great Lata ...``

A great deal, but what is this talk about Great Lata? First Gandhi, now Lata. If you are not careful about your adjectives, you will become a marked man for the young patriotic platoon faster than you can sing `Ichhak Dana Beechak Dana`.))

Ref Neptune # 60:

Thanks for the info Neptune.

```Babul Mora` is a classic, composed by Wajid Ali Shah, Nawab of Oudh. In your music classes, it is shown as what a Bhairavi thumri should be like. For the last 130 years or so...``

If you find time, can you shed some light on Wajid Ali Shah please? Was he the same guy in Prem Chand`s ``Shatranj Ke Khilari`` or somehow related to him?

In another post you mentioned Mukesh sang ``Dil Jalata Hai``. Agreeed. Some of my other favorite Mukesh songs are: Jiyenge Magar Muskura na sakenge, DO Zulami Naina Hum Pur Zulam, Mujh Ko iss Raat Ki.

Lata should have retired after Pakeezah. She is a mere shadow of her former self, but then she performed ``Jiya Jale`` in Dil Se and still won some kind of award. My all time favourite:

`Mere Sainyaa jee Uterenge Paar Ho` from Uran Khatola. The tune is based on some Raga.

REF TA321 # 181:

Welcome back TA Sahib.

`` A set of 15 CDs of Lata Mangeshkar. For Rs. 90 each. Great quality. I understand even this is a small fraction of the over 3,000 songs that the Great Lata ...``

A great deal, but what is this talk about Great Lata? First Gandhi, now Lata. If you are not careful about your adjectives, you will become a marked man for the young patriotic platoon faster than you can sing `Ichhak Dana Beechak Dana`.))

Ref Neptune # 60:

Thanks for the info Neptune.

```Babul Mora` is a classic, composed by Wajid Ali Shah, Nawab of Oudh. In your music classes, it is shown as what a Bhairavi thumri should be like. For the last 130 years or so...``

If you find time, can you shed some light on Wajid Ali Shah please? Was he the same guy in Prem Chand`s ``Shatranj Ke Khilari`` or somehow related to him?

In another post you mentioned Mukesh sang ``Dil Jalata Hai``. Agreeed. Some of my other favorite Mukesh songs are: Jiyenge Magar Muskura na sakenge, DO Zulami Naina Hum Pur Zulam, Mujh Ko iss Raat Ki.

Lata should have retired after Pakeezah. She is a mere shadow of her former self, but then she performed ``Jiya Jale`` in Dil Se and still won some kind of award. My all time favourite:

`Mere Sainyaa jee Uterenge Paar Ho` from Uran Khatola. The tune is based on some Raga.

tahmed321, ``Couldnt you have downloaded it from Napster? ``

I wish. I don`t have a DSL connection, otherwise I`d have been downloading songs twenty four seven.

Reply #: 190 tahmed321

[``while I am happy just to get CDs for Rs. 90 each from Sadar bazar Rawalpindi...``]

Welcome back to the neighborhood Mr. Rogers!! We eagerly await you ``muffassil roznaamcha`` aka details of you Pindi Yatra. Did you get to see the havoc caused by the floods first hand? Some of my relatives who had businesses in the low lying areas... most large businesses are in the low lying areas... literally lost their shirts.

Rs. 90/- is too much, you could have gotten them for Rs. 65/- at Raja Bazar, and enjoyed Fav-vara chowk`s famous qulfi falooda with the change.

scout #186 Couldnt you have downloaded it from Napster? Although I suppose Napster is no longer available for that purpose - I dont really know since the experts on Napster are my kids while I am happy just to get CDs for Rs. 90 each from Sadar bazar Rawalpindi...

stuka:

``Bhai, everyone here is way too culture for me.``

haina :(

``Hmmm, let me muddy the water here a bit.

Anyone remember Hassan Jahangir of Hawa Hawa fame?``

LOL..ure saying u havent heard `Shadee na karna yaron`? lol...please hear it at pakistanimusic.com and do tell us what u think

Temporal # 172,

Reporting back ..... wow, that is quite a collection .Visited just a couple of them yet ... what i saw and read was beautiful, with a good selection .I know now, how my weekend would be spent :)

Thank you ....

lots of love,

sa:)

Aamir - ``Nothing wrong .Thats what all superstitious say``

: ) you got me there f&s! But really it is more to keep my mothers heart than anything else (dil rakhte rakhte have grown very attached to it). Think we have cluttered up this board enuff - time to move back to music??

aicha

tahmed321 ji #181,

showoff :)

well i bought a fiona apple CD for a buck at a thrift shop some time ago, and it`s absolutely great.

Re: nasah, #169

Thank you for making a plea for the heinous crime committed by the Pakistan Judicial System (if one calls it a ``Judicial`` system) against an innocent person. In my opinion, the ``judge`` who passed the sentenced should be hanged, not the accused Dr. Younis Shaikh.

All Pakistanis with a shred of civility and decency should hang their heads in shame for this crime committed in the name of religion and justice. Where`s the Chowk article discussing this? Where are the Chowk Interactors crying on this injustice?

Bhai, everyone here is way too culture for me. Hmmm, let me muddy the water here a bit.

Anyone remember Hassan Jahangir of Hawa Hawa fame?

What happened to him? Was he the Rick Springfield of Pakistan? That despicable species ``the 80s Pop Star``

This is what I found in a small shop in Rawalpindi Sadar on my recent trip to Pakistan: A set of 15 CDs of Lata Mangeshkar. For Rs. 90 each. Great quality. I understand even this is a small fraction of the over 3,000 songs that the Great Lata has recorded, but (as the shopkeeper assured me) the 15 CDs are among her finest songs and that there were no duplicates. More important, on these CDs I came across songs I had not heard in decades.

Aamir - Thankyou for pointing out the subtleties. Now, is a person indeed bankrupt if s/he has only work to look fwd to, is a person known only by the company he keeps, is the health of a household really determined by the amt of garbage thrown out? Cant say for sure !!

Re the rest - sounds good to me and only one, more for sentimental reasons tahn any other.

aicha

re: narain # 176

Would you have some more details on this set? What is it called, and how can someone in the U. S. of A. get it?

Thanks, Guruvar.

Temporal # 172,

Thank you ! magar yeh tou apney aik pooorey din ka nuskha likh diya ![LOL] will get back with the post mortem findings !

Roman English versions will be greatly appreciated if anyone can post them please!

love,

sa:)

Aamir

Me neither, but job satisfaction is extremely rare and if ever you do find it - being a workaholic isnt so bad. Am glad we are on the same wavelength here mugar I cant let sleepign dogs lie - so ag my better judgement - all this mutual agreement is actually getting a bit disagreeable - what gives ??

aicha

ref: Nasah #121

``Unfortunately there is such a paucity of music teaching tapes and CDs from the subcontinent.``

Actually there is a very nice 14 CD set brought out by the Pondicherry Ashram, which is a must for any student of Indian classical music. They outline the philosophy, techniques and tools of music. They also have a section where they highlight the major ragas: their character, timing, characteristic movements and then demonstrate this by a famous rendition.

-narain

Wow! A discussion on classical music, my passion, and I missed it.

Regarding new stars on the Classical music horizon, here`s my pick.

1. Ulhas Kashalkar: he`s from Bombay, and his technique and voice are both excellent. There is a recording of Raga Basant by him in the ``Tarana`` series brought out by music India, which I think is one of the most beautiful renditions I have heard recently.

2. Rahid Khan: grandson of Ustad Nisar Hussain Khan Sahib of the Rampur-Saheswan Gharana. He has a mellifluous voice and complete mastery which is rare in young singers. I have a CD called ``evening Serenity`` where he has sung a great ``saraswati``.

3. Arati Ankelikar-Tikekar: among the best up and coming women singers. Her voice is great and she sings with such effortlessness that its a pleasure to hear her. Raag Rang brought out a cassette where she sings ``salag warali`` a rare morning raag. Its a treat to hear.

4. Shruti Sadolikar: again her voice has something so sombre and grand, and her singing is so flawless that she ranks among my favorites.

I don`t know why, but almost all of the best new talent seems to be coming from Bombay. That city has all the other centres completely eclipsed.

And oh, somebody was asking about that grand and stately form, Dhrupad. The Dagar brothers are of course closely associated with it. But I think the hnour of making it more accessible and appealing rests with the Gundecha brothers. They are relatively young, and sound like it too, But they have made Dhrupad much more listenable. They have an excellent recording called ``traditions`` out. One of my favorites in it is the Kabir Bhajan in raag Charukeshi.

-narain

re: nasah # 161

Thank you for asking. I am doing just fine now...I can walk with fair degree of comfort, and have joined work. Ofcourse, it will be a while before I recover my full strength but I am getting there quickly. With such a wonderful group of people wishing me well, how could I not? :)

Best regards,

EK

Shirin Ahmed #162:

...now you will have to cancel the next few appointments...do some good homework on these sites and come back to us with your findings:)


Nita Awatramani’s labour of love
http://www.urdupoetry.com


http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/1442/poet_indx.html

http://www.mindspring.com/

RSaxena

``Dr. Younis Shaikh, a teacher at a medical college in Islamabad and founder and president of Enlightenment, the Pakistani-based International Humanist and Ethical Union member organization, was sentenced to death for blasphemy by a court in Pakistan on August 18. He has one week to appeal this sentence. (See the New York Times International section Aug. 20, 2001).

Dr. Shaikh was arrested on October 4, 2000, by Islamabad police for allegedly saying that the Prophet Mohammed did not become Muslim until the age of 40 (which was when he received his first revelation) and that his parents were non-Muslims (as they died before Islam was proposed by the Prophet). According to the report in the NYT, ``The Movement for the Finality of the Prophet, well known for pursuing blasphemers, filed a criminal complaint and sent a mob to the college and the local police station, threatening to set them on fire.``

Hundreds of people have been convicted of blasphemy in Pakistan, among them moderate Muslims, Christians and members of other religious minorities. The law they are prosecuted under is extremely ill defined. Frequently, people don`t know beforehand that they are committing an offence. While we do not know if Dr. Shaikh will face execution in the short time allowed for his appeal or whether he will languish in jail, we do know that we must mobilize immediately to bring this travesty to the attention of the world community.

YOUR HELP is urgently needed to bring political pressure to bear on Pakistan to stop the death sentence from being carried out. Protests are being planned in London and Oslo.

PLEASE ACT NOW:

1. If you live in the U.S., please contact the U.S. State Department by calling Sec. Colin Powell at (202) 647-4000 or email him at secretary@state.gov.

2. Contact the President of the United States by calling (202) 456-1414 or email him at president@whitehouse.gov.

3. Contact your U.S. Senators and ask them to contact the State Department to bring pressure to bear.

4. Contact Ambassador Dr. Maleeha Lodhi at the Embassy of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in Washington, D.C. at (202) 939-6200 or email her at parepwashington@erols.com.

If you live outside the U.S., please contact the appropriate government agency to call this matter to their attention or see www.iheu.org for further information.``

Aamir - ``Although that was my highest record ,sort of bragging rights``

thought as much - but everyone is entitled to do so - a bit!

``No im no where overworked or tired ever by work alone``

You are v lucky to feel that way. But I guess not everyone can count on that happening. I have always felt in the eventuality of ones personal life tanking - they should have work to fall

back on.

Shima & MFarooqui & Rsridhar - My father would do the same - tape each episode religiously. Loved it! I believe Gordon Banks is nomore. He passed away in some freak accident. After taht the series

died a natural death. Mrs Bucket (Routledge -i think) is hilarious too!! There were some others taht were superb too - Open all Hours, Mind your language are some taht come to mind (courtesy my father again) - anyone seen those??

aicha

Reply to #165

rozaiba asks: ``Some classical pieces:- Kishori Amonkar What is the name of ‘style’ Kishori Amonkar sings in??``

The school she nominally comes from goes by the name Atrauli-Jaipur, after its founder Alladiya Khan (the world has seen v v few the likes of him) whose family originally came from Atrauli and later settled in Uniyara near Jaipur. However, Kishori Amonkar is no liege to blind tradition

and has developed a style that builds on her Atrauli-Jaipur background (inherited from her recently-deceased mother, Mogubai Kurdikar, among the greatest vocalists of the 20th C) and extends it by injecting `romantic` elements from other

styles.

tantralogician

Aicha, we were in Europe for few years where British sit-coms are quite popular. My most favorite was ``Keeping up Appearances``...Now ``Golden Girls`` will fail thousand times to the acting of Ms. Patricia Rouletge? (I forgot her last name).

You are right about US sit coms, although I like the old ones like Mary Tyler Moore, Dick Van Dyke, and I love Lucy, and Sienfeld would be one of the new ones.

Sridhar: ``Allo Allo`` was classic, based on the second world war backdrop, it was about a French Restauranter who helped the German Resistance by providing assistance to British Army and French civilians. The main character, Rene played by Gordon Banks?(anybody at Chowk) was just superb.

Again, sorry for the digression, but still we are talking about art, isn`t it?

Dost-Mittarji, I knew I was in wrong board about Rajinder Krishan, but you responded to Sadna in that board, so I also started, :) but the point was about Raja Mehendi Ali Khan.......

This has been the most informative discussion I’ve seen on Chowk.

I’ve had a couple of friends in their 40’s who in their younger years lived with classical musicians. Through them I was able to distinguish some differences in sound that would allow me to better appreciate classical music.

I have a childish query. Why is Asad Amanat Ali Khan not considered as good as his chacha Hamid Ali Khan? OK, so Hamid is simply better. But I’ve heard people say that ‘Asad is a fraud’. Does anyone know why? After reading the posts here, I did try out some of the selections including ‘umraan langyaan pabban phar’. I liked Asad’s ‘ghar vapis jab aao gay tum’. Unfortunately, my ears are not tuned yet to distinguish between what is genuine and that which may not be. I don’t see why some are critical of Asad’s skill. However, I can sense that Hamid Ali Khan is better.

Some of my favorite NFK pieces:

- Zayhaal-e-miskeen

- Sanu pul gaee khudai chana saree

- Main nivaan maira murshad ucha

- Man atkaya bay qadraan day naal

Some classical pieces:

- Maee nee main kinoun akhaan (all versions)

- Sohni gharray noun akhdee (Pathanay Khan)

- Lamakaan main ghar banaya yaar nain (Abida Parveen)

- Kishori Amonkar

What is the name of ‘style’ Kishori Amonkar sings in??

- Preetam Madhum (Abida Parveen)

Question about ‘Preetam Madham’: Who wrote the words for these songs? It is in hindi I think. Translation anyone?

Ghazals/fimli songs:

- yeh kaghzi phool jaisay chehray (mehdi hassan)

- mujhay duniya valoo (Mohammed Rafi)



these last two I classify as songs for left-wingers- very inspiring.

- kya aisay kam sukhan say (Runa Laila and lyrics by Ahmed Faraz)

- Mudat huee hay yaar ko (Noor Jehan)

- Mirza Ghalib (Jagjit Singh and Chitra Singh)

Another question:

A song by Abida Parveen : ‘ab yeh aankhain kissi taskeen say tabinda nahin, mainay raftaar say jana hai voh aa-aye ga nahin’.

Who are these lyrics by? Does anyone know which album this ghazal is found in?

PS) Please desist from mocking and underestimating the power of Junoon. Ali is a bad vocalist and the album ‘ishq’ may have been only half-good, but his and Salman Ahmed’s intensity, particularly in concerts, more than make up for everything.

Not ze vun wiz ze leetle svastikas?!!

I cannot believe my eyes! Two more cohorts of the `Allo, `Allo brigade. I have to confess - I was smitten with the same (and recorded each and every episode to boot!) I have to tell you this: My sister is a doctor in England, and she tells me that it was so popular that all the nurses would go around and at the opportune moment, they would tell the doctor or patient: ``Now lizzen vairy carfully - I vill zay zis only vunze ...!``

Aamir

Well it definately is all about - quality of life, quality of your work, the motivation factor, how hyper/laidback one is, shortcuts (that may not be a good idea). However, if you feel you can do justice to the work at hand - after 72 hrs then by all means carry-on killing yourself!! I realise your q was more rhetorical in nature but will add - cant do more than 18-20 hrs at a stretch. No call of duty is worth the effort beyond that - in my humble opinion !!

aicha

Thanks Temporal,

However i knew of urdustan`s site. For the poets , it has a huge list of the Delhi poets , but i could not find their Kalam! I`ll look again.

love,

sa:)

Dear sadna:

You are so right.

``At Partition, people migrated or didnot migrate according to their personal proclivities. We are lucky to be able to enjoy the efforts of those who managed to succeed and flourish, whether on one side of the border or another.``

Thank God -- between India and Pakistan -- at least -- there are no LOCs -- as far music is concerned.

Dear Eklavya:

i wish someone will hammer your sentence -- ``our modern Indian civilization, as it exists today, is the shared product of a collective life in which all communities have participated`` -- on the head of the braindead members of the Hinduva parivar.

Great to see your posts. How are you doing my friend.

Dear zafar:

You`re right dhurpud is not monotonus or dull -- it`s only my impatience -- it does unfold rather too slowly -- and who has got that much time -- (poor excuse for poor taste, I know)-- you`re one lucky man -- got to listen to Dagar brothers on daily basis.

Dear Amit:

Thanks for the web site. What a treasury of Indian classical music!

Lately heard the rendition of that -- ``ka karoon sajni aiye na balam -- by Ajoy Chakarvarty -- what a fluid resonant voice -- captures the pathos of that celeberated thumri! -- goes two three octaves effortlessly -- another star on the horizon of classical music.

shima

I see you have mentioned Allo Allo - where did you see it ?? I ask this because feel American tastes arent that ready or refined for fallen madonnas ... & dickytiquers & ... so you couldnt have ...

Just curious but pls feel free to tell me to mind my own biz.

ps I avoid murky posts because I worry about losing my already tenuous grip on english

aicha

dost_mittar#104
Thanks! I have that one, fortunately.

Aamir

yes and if it wasnt for the loads of chocolate fudge&chai life would indeed have been a misery !

``I thaught i only worked that hard.`` - hmmmm given your presence here - working hard or hardly working??

aicha

Sameer, you are welcome. It is our pleasure to share our common interests with you. You certainly are a good student :). Music and flower are two best creations of God, so they do not have religion, and they are as much yours as mine. I learnt lot about Punjabi music, which I am not very familiar mostly because of language. Thank you for that.

Shirin Ahmed #149:

[...Does anyone know of some good Desi poetry sites ? preferably in the Roman style ?...]

...try this one...the site is a little slow and probably needs some promotion...check out the bait baazi (antraakshri) there...

http://www.urdustan.com

__________________________________


(ajnabi: apologize for using your board)

SameerJB:

...need some help with trans-creation this minor poem in punjabi...if it is ok...we can move to the speaker’s corner...keep the words simple...

...urdu suggestions also welcome...


LET ME BE

Leave me alone
need no peak
no valley
need no help
to confront
reflection.

why do gods
know this not
would be less
melancholy
less happy
more content
if they just
let me be.


...just a suggestion...

[...MENU CHUDDH DEY

chuddh dey yaar
menu ki karna
choti tey ...?]


love & rgds,

t

PS: TO CHOWK EDITORS

What happened to the rest of Shah of Chicago? Even ajnabi is musing!

tantralogician
Why mix politics and music? If you want to share information on specifics to give proper perspective thats one thing, you donot seem to be doing that. What do you or music gain anyway with heated tempers ?

At Partition, people migrated or didnot migrate according to their personal proclivities. We are lucky to be able to enjoy the efforts of those who managed to succeed and flourish, whether on one side of the border or another.

For instance, the lyricist Qamar Jalalabadi and his family(Hindus) apparently migrated from Afghanistan, at Partition. His homeland and former countrymen lost him and his talents, and they are the poorer for it. We enjoy Mehdi Hassan, though he migrated from from India. We enjoy Naushad, though he didnot migrate from India.

And btw, I think you mention the so-called `Hindu` characteristic of `accretion` essentially to get yourself on a spurious upper ground here. Accretion works both ways, brother. Have you considered, what did the Europeans contribute to the development of Indian music, literature or any of the arts? Was there a similar symbiosis and sythesis of culture, religion, talents and skills in the arts leading to new styles , new creations and vigor? Did they even bother to patronize the Indian arts officially?

The irony is you are likely to have migrated out of India and will kick up a big fuss if the contributions of your own culture from the subcontinent to your adopted homeland were ever looked down for being `late arrivals`. And what if such a labelling is done after tens of generations of your descendents have lived, sweated and died in their homeland, Mr logician?

re: tantralogician # 146

Tantra,

Your knowledge of music is most impressive. My involvement with classical music, on the other hand, has been limited to helping local SPIC-MACAY chapters organize a couple of concerts. So no arguments there.

I do, however, have some concerns.

1. It seems difficult to believe that in a thousand years Muslims have made only some incidental contributions to the development of Indian classical music. This view becomes all the more untenable when you consider the fact that at least in the present times many of our best musicians have been muslims. You would agree that a vast majority of Muslims in India/Pakistan had Hindu ancestors. Doesnt seem reasonable to think that they would lose their ability to make original contributions to classical music once they became Muslims.

2. I agree that Indian music is a product of Indian civilization. But Indian civilization is not Hindu or Muslim or Christian. And continuous growth, development and adaptaion by learning and by accretion is an INDIAN trait, not a Hindu trait. Thus our modern Indian civilization, as it exists today, is the shared product of a collective life in which all communities have participated. Do we not do injustice to this stupendous achievement by making exclusive claims on parts of it? What value do such claims add even if they could be substantiated?

3. In any case, I find the whole discussion regarding religious identities of people in non-religious fields at best superfluous (at worst, it can be downright disgusting and harmful). I dont see how a person can be a better physicist, athlete, singer or sitar player just because he or she was born a Hindu or a Muslim. So any pride of any kind associated with Hindu achievements or Muslim achievements seems out of place to me. I have often criticized our Pakistani friends for giving in to such kind of thinking, and I truly dont feel comfortable seeing Indians - whether they be Hindus or Muslims or anybody else - going that route.

Or, am I completely misreading you?

Regards,

EK

Thanks dost-mittar, Neptune, Truth, Shima, Eklavya and Amit for sharing your thought with me despite making so many mistakes, though all innocent ones. It makes me doubly grateful for forgiving my mistakes and and responding in the most delighted and respectful ways. Can you imagine YLH or F_K calling raga darbari to raga sohni, crediting a song to S. D. Berman instead of Sachdeva?, calling Chanchal Singh to Nirender Chanchal, writing dawa instead of zaban and so on? I must be taking this thread lightly and not thinking before writing.

I visited both the URLs Neptune and Amit mentioned and both are great. I will be visiting those sites often in the future. I have absolutely no opinion about Dharupad and Khayal and plan to put some effort of my own to learn the difference between them. All I can say, which I might have said tens of times on chowk, is that whenever we talk about Islam, it is religion only and when we say Musalmaan, it does not mean culturally non-Indian. Hinduism term on the other hand is used both for religion as well as culture. In this sense, Islam and Hinduism are two distinct religions whereas a Musalmaan and Hinduism do not always mean that wide gulf in terms of culture. It is impossible to define clear boundaries between the cultures of Indian Hindus and Muslims, particularly when they are involved in a profession definitely desi in origin and propagation through centuries. Certain professions are more Islamic than Hindu and Muslim tailors tending to the needs of Muslim women (burqa) and butchers (meat sellers) might have certain distinct Islamic culture but not in classical music. How can a Pakistani Muslim take pride in certain musicians of Muslim origin when the Islamic Pakistan practically forced out most well-known Muslim musician, Bare Ghulam Ali Khan. He migrated to India after 1947 against his wishes to stay in Lahore. Had it not been for Noor Jehan and Khursheed Anwer, Pakistani music industry would have truly been barren-siberia. Mehdi Hasan, coming from well known gharana from Rajhistan, had to work odd jobs for several years before finally becoming known. Khayyam, Shamshad Begum and M. Rafi (all three from east Punjab) chose not to migrate to Pakistan in addition to a pucca lahori Surriya Jamal Sheikh. Should Musalmaans hate them because they stayed back and hate Bare Ghulam Ali Khan for dumping Pakistan for India? Absolutely not. Similarly Hindus should not hate Noor Jehan or Khursheed Anwer or Bundoo Khan for migating to Pakistan. Because, music is a discipline of culture and Hindu-Muslim titles are really meaningless. A good piece of music is a good piece of music any way you look at it and that is it.

Does anyone know of some good Desi poetry sites ? preferably in the Roman style ?

sa:)

Re:Eklavya#136

I totally agree with you that classical music is the joint heritage of both hindus and muslims in the subcontinent. The reason it is so beautiful is that it has been nurtured and improved by everyone. Any attempt to give it a sectrian label is absolutely foolish. While, hindus invented the fundamentals of classical music, muslims took it to another level by developing new forms, inventing new instruments, providing royal patronage and most importantly, giving us some of the greatest performers of classical music.

In India we have had a renaissance in classical music. Organizations like SPIC-MACAY and Gandharva Mahavidyalaya have contributed tremendously to spread awareness of classical music among common folks. I have heard that present generation Pakistanis don`t value classical music very much, which is truly a tragedy.

Re:SameerJB#113

Actually the Bade Ghulam Ali song in Mugal-e-Azam (Prem Jogan Ban Ke) is in Raag Sohni rather than Darbari. The seduction scene of Dilip Kumar and Madhubala was shot earlier. Khan saheb wanted to view the scene while singing for it. Hence his voice modulation is timed closely with the actual movements on the screen. It is truly a masterpiece.

An interesting thing about classical music is that different raags remind you of various seasons, emotions and even time of day. Raag Darbari is a beautiful raag that was actually created by Tansen. When you hear it, you can feel the regal atmosphere for which it is intended. Bade Ghulam Ali has some excellent recordings in Darbari. By the way, if you are interested in classical music, try out the website www.musicindiaonline.com for some indian classical audio clips of various ustads.

Reply Nasah #134

Nasah

You made a very reasonable response to a perhaps less than reasonable (but how is it tantric?) dummy spit.

But:

“Dhurpud is of course well developed - but it’s slow, monotonous, and dull -- without much improvisations –“

Admittedly Dhrupad is much less easy to listen to than Khayal because there are no words to “hang” your attention on. It is also much slower in the way it unfolds a raga. But it is truly lovely if one actually gives it one’s full attention – not monotonous or dull at all! Give it another listen and another chance.

(Hmmm….Khayal is the “muzak” version of Dhrupad…possible discussion topic?)

“ and by the way -- the ONLY exponents of Dhurpud in its true form in India --unfortunately for you -- are still the one and ONLY Dagar brothers -- the much Hindutva hated -- inevitable Muslims”

Blast from the past! I have wonderful memories of the Dagar brothers performances in Delhi.

They also lived on the top floor of a house I used to walk past every day on my way to and from the school bus stop – and quite often I could hear them practicing. I had no idea what a privilege that was, otherwise I would have stopped and listened more often than I did. (But what can I say – frivolous from early childhood, that’s me.)

“ – looks like you can’t escape the Moosulmans – anyway.”

But who would want to, since we are all so charming and lovely, no?

Best regards,

Zafar

Reply to #134

nasah writes:

``Dhurpud is of course well developed - but it’s slow, monotonous, and dull -- without much improvisations -- ``

It may be, to the casual, uncultivated ear but not to those who understand and know. There are Dhrupad lovers aplenty who have no training in or formal knowledge of music. Khayal has its own set of technique and aesthetic and Dhrupad has its own way. To elevate one at the expense of the other is silly not to mention a reflection of the protagonists musical development, the lack of it to be sure.

nasah:

``and by the way -- the ONLY exponents of Dhurpud in its true form in India --unfortunately for you -- are still the one and ONLY Dagar brothers -- the much Hindutva hated -- inevitable Muslims - looks like you can’t escape the Moosulmans - anyway.``

I doubt the Hindutva fellows would hate Dagars. The Dagars sing praises of Shambho-Mahadeva almost everyday through their Dhrupads. But more to the point, your assertions that the Dagars are the ``ONLY`` exponents of ``true`` Dhrupad (whatever

that means) is plain wrong. The Mallicks and the Tewaris of Darbhanga (Bihar) are the other major families around, their descendents very much active even today. There is also the Talwandi branch dhrupadiyas (some of them in Pakistan, by the way). Please study a little before you peck away at your keyboard.

Reply to #135

Eklayva writes:

``I am no musicologist but it seems to me that the Indian classical music is one of the grandest, noblest, and proudest achievements of Hindu Muslim

commingling.``

This is an oft-repeated sweet-nothing. I would say, it is a product of Indian civilization. That some of the practitioners in recent times have been Muslims is incidental. Indian music is a long history of accretion (a veru Hindu characteristic) building upon tradition, imbibing an idea here and there from elsewhere and so on. The topic is too large to be covered in a few sound bytes.

Reply to #143

wadera writes:

``Tantralogician, (in post #131) you really must READ before going off like a blunderbuss in a Yosemite cartoon. Here is what I said: ``He came to Pakistan, his land of dreams, and lived in LaluKhet til he died.`` Where does this say anything about his lack of love for Delhi?``

But you mentioned the Pakistan as the ``land of his dreams`` as if that is something he dreamt of and aspired for. Do a search on Google groups (http://groups.google.com) and type in the keywords ``Bundu`` and ``Dhar``.

Reply to #144

Zafar Al-Talib writes:

``As opposed to living like Muslims? How? What’s the difference? I don`t think that there is one.``

Point taken, Zafar. I ought to have worded my sentence better.

Wassalaam,

tantralogician

tantralogician:Tantric

Excuse meeeeeeeee.

Isn`t it OBVIOUS that “Indian” ragas are HINDU`S creations. Did I mean Dhurpad -- before the Muslims -- was developed by the Christians? What insecurity!

When I used the term Muslims polishing Dhurpud into Kheyal -- I was implying the term ``Muslim`` in relation to supposed influence of the Arab and Iranian musical system on Indian music -- suggested by another interactor.

Dhurpud is of course well developed - but it’s slow, monotonous, and dull -- without much improvisations -- and by the way -- the ONLY exponents of Dhurpud in its true form in India --unfortunately for you -- are still the one and ONLY Dagar brothers -- the much Hindutva hated -- inevitable Muslims – looks like you can’t escape the Moosulmans – anyway.

cheers

Reply Tantralogician #132

Reply to #121

“…most of the great Indian ustads have never found it a problem acknowledging their Hindu roots and the Hindu antecedents of their music. In fact, several of them, eg. Alladiya Khan, Alladdin Khan etc, lived much like Hindus.”

As opposed to living like Muslims? How? What’s the difference? I don`t think that there is one.

“Which is not surprising since the gharanedar musicians typically came from a lineage where at the top of the line you would find a Hindu convert.”

Um…that’s true of most South Asian Muslims, actually.

“Someone also mentioned that it is hard to find classical music courses in India and Pakistan. It is eminently possible that that situation obtains in Pakistan, the cultural and moral Siberia of our times.”

Mashallah, Tantralogician, you have a wonderful way with words.

Zafar

PS Your assumption that all South Asian Muslims who say something you don’t agree with are espousing a Pakistani viewpoint does your argument no favours.

Tantralogician, (in post #131) you really must READ before going off like a blunderbuss in a Yosemite cartoon. Here is what I said:

``He came to Pakistan, his land of dreams, and lived in LaluKhet til he died.``

Where does this say anything about his lack of love for Delhi? I talked with him and he expressed a deep love for Delhi. He also expressed his hopes and dreams for Pakistan. It is a tragedy that we in Pakistan did not value him as we should have, and in fact there are many other musicians/artistes TODAY, that we in Pakistan do not value. I consider these treatments criminal. Ustad Bundoo Khan lived a poor man in the slums of LaluKhet. He had to feel bitterness at his treatment, yet he only expressed love for Pakistan. So don`t go giving me any crap about fantasies/schmantasies. I am angry enough at the way we treat our artistes. Besides, this is a MUSIC forum. Keep it this way. I want to hear about MUSIC, not another mudslinging match. I really have no patience for it.

Asif Naqshabandi:

I agree with you on the quality of Iranian movie. IMO, however, Iranian movies do not really portray an Islamic ethos. The movies are about day to day lives of ordinary people, and yes, these Iranian movie directors tend to find poetry in everyday situations. I haven`t seen an Iranian movie which is religious, at least not any which have become popular,

Re: Reply #: 127

shima,

I agree with what you said about Madani though i have not seen the sitcom that you mentioned. The only British things we get to watch in USA have to do with the royalty. Quite a lot about Diana. Also, sometimes back, they were showing this British comedy ``Are you being served``. I thought it was hilarious.

Sridhar

Re:Reply #: 124

ahmed Madani,

Just call me Sridhar. I am older than you but in USA everyone calls everyone else by his/her first name.

I do not know much about IT. Someone from Pakistan on Chowk can help you with names of training institutes in Pak. Correspondence course for IT does not sound like a good idea to me. Anyway, good luck to you. Do not worry about your English. There are lots of people in USA who do not know any english and are still surviving here.

Sridhar

re: #124

No wisecracks, ok? :)

#130,#131,#132

TANTROLIGICIAN

Is your nick inspired logic from this smut?

TANTRIC RITUAL

from fireplug.net/

Madhuri`s posters burnt by BJP cadre protesting Lajja

Press Trust of India

ANOTHER DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LEADER PAKISTAN & FOLLOWER INDIA:WHATEVER PAKISTAN MAY DO ,INDIA WILL BE LATE COMMER AS ``ME TOO`` shortly there AFTER,proving imitation is the best form of flattery .May the persistence of Pakistani continue to be proven right by none other than the hegemonous neighbour ---BIG BUT DUMBO

Madhuri`s posters burnt by BJP cadre protesting

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Lajja

* * * * * * *

Bhopal, September 3: A group of BJP workers on Monday burnt an effigy of Bollywood film-maker Rajkumar Santoshi and posters of film actress Madhuri Dixit to express their protest against what they described as ``objectionable dialogues`` against Hindu gods and goddesses in Santoshi`s latest movie Lajja.

Police said the BJP workers led by Rameshwar Sharma, leader of the party in the Bhopal municipal corporation, were trying to move towards Raaz Talkies, where Lajja is being screened, when they were stopped in view of prohibitory orders in force because of the monsoon session of the Madhya Pradesh Assembly.

According to BJP workers, Madhuri`s posters were burnt because the ``objectionable dialogues`` against Hindu gods and goddesses were uttered by her in the movie. ``Lajja`` is also being screened at the local Sangam cinema hall, but no demonstration was held there.

This is the second time this year that a demonstration against a Hindi film has been staged in the city. On July 19, activists of the Youth Congress had staged a violent demonstration against Hindi blockbuster Gadar.

Shima,

How could I have missed Ore Majhi! A real gem of a song.

And thank you for that translation. Aren`t those words powerful enough to move a stone?

Now, you are really making me homesick, Shima.

Tantralogician,

I am no musicologist but it seems to me that the Indian classical music is one of the grandest, noblest, and proudest achievements of Hindu Muslim commingling. I know there is an effort by some Hindus to claim everything for Hinduism, and an effort by some Muslims to claim everything for Islam, but is it easy to tell in this fine and perfect blend where one part ends and the other begins? Are such excercise even useful?

BTW, I have never known nasah as a proponent of Pakistani history. He is among the straight shooters.

Shima,

How could I have missed Ore Majhi! A real gem of a song.

And thank you for that translation. Aren`t those words powerful enough to move a stone?

Now, you are really making me homesick, Shima.

Tantralogician,

I am no musicologist but it seems to me that the Indian classical music is one of the grandest, noblest, and proudest achievements of Hindu Muslim commingling. I know there is an effort by some Hindus to claim everything for Hinduism, and an effort by some Muslims to claim everything for Islam, but is it easy to tell in this fine and perfect blend where one part ends and the other begins? Are such excercise even useful?

BTW, I have never known nasah as a proponent of Pakistani history. He is among the straight shooters.

Sridhar,

Reading Madani`s posts can be lot of fun. He sounds like that English Lieutenant from the British sit-com ``Alo Alo``.

Sorry for the digression folks. Keep up posting the music of sub-continent.

Ekalvya, add one more of SD in the list, ``Ore Majhi, mere majhi, mere sajan hai us par, main ispar`` of Bandini. By the way, sajan can be interpreted as God in Bengali Bowl geet.

Here is the meaning of the first two lines of Bhupen Hazarika`s Bistirna Dupere. This is a song about the deprived masses of India.

`` O Ganga, why you are still flowing quietly after hearing the cries of vast number of deprived people on both sides of your banks?

Upon witnessing the degradation of morality and humanity, why are you still flowing lazily and shamelessly?

O how helpless I am expressing those powerful words? The writer is Sadashib Banerjee.

Both Salil Chowdhury and Hazarika had composed many songs on this theme, and they are all very good. In fact Calcutta Youth Coir under the direction of Ruma Guhathakurta (Kishore Kumar`s first wife and Amit Kumar`s mother)had also recorded Bistirno Dupare. One of the nicest songs of Calcutta Youth Coir which has a tremendous appeal to the united world is:

``Tomar amaar thikana, Padma Meghna Jamuna

Mekong Bhalga ghure, Gangar tir dhare peyechi chalar nishana``.

Don`t forget to include Roshan and Khaiyam in your list Eklavaya and Sameer,

``Rahe na rahe hum, meheka karenge, banke kali banke sabab....

``Justojoo jiski thi usko to na paya hamne, is bahanepe magar dekh li duniya hamne``

Sayonara or is it cionara?

Mr. Asif Nagshbundi

I read yourleter. Thank u very much.

About ``basant`` festaval. my thinking. is it be banned in punjab also.This year sindh banned all that hindu festival by govt. order. But sorry your punjab no ban but selebrate same stuf. Its wrong as punjab is captan of pakistan correct.They called spring festaval but every PPL though as Basant festival. Its shikh hindu thing. we chased all hindu and shikhs type out punjab why now selebrate and fly kite stupid stuf?.its stupid to do things to make your enemy happy.

Reply to #121

nasah writes:``These Indian classical ragas are eternal -- nothing compares to it -- in the Iranian or the Arab music system -- yet the Muslims turned -- that Dhurpud gem -- into an exquisitely cut polished diamond -- Kheyal -- its most popular form for the past several centuries.``

I agree only partially. Yes, the Indian ragas are eternal, the product of the highest musical thought and imagination.

No, these fantasies about Muslims coming in and polishing things won`t wash. It is curious that while you are quick to rush in to take credit for ``Muslims`` you don`t find it necessary to associate ``Hindus`` with the idea of raga.

Dhrupad was (still is) a highly developed form. To say that it was polished into a diamond (khayal) is to betray one`s ignorance of BOTH the forms. The faith of the practitioners is quite incidental to much of this development. Further, khayal has not been around ``several centuries.`` The beginnings are placed more like in the 18th C. This ``several centuries`` is another myth calculated to elevate Amir Khusro by ascribing to him all manner of fictitious musical inventions (solely with the goal of trumpeting ``muslim`` contribution). These chauvinists, of course, never find it convenient to mention Khusro`s own estimation of the music of India exiting in his times!

Finally, most of the great Indian ustads have never found it a problem acknowledging their Hindu roots and the Hindu antecedents of their music. In fact, several of them, eg. Alladiya Khan, Alladdin Khan etc, lived much like Hindus. Which is not surprising since the gharanedar musicians typically came from a lineage where at the top of the line you would find a Hindu convert.

Bottom line: Paki version of history won`t wash.

Someone also mentioned that it is hard to find classical music courses in India and Pakistan. It is eminently possible that that situation obtains in Pakistan, the cultural and moral Siberia of our times. But in India, not only is it easy to learn music, one can flourish doing so.

tantralogician

Reply to #118

Wadera writes:``...It was said that when Ustad Bundoo Khan played, his Sa-Rangi became a Sau-Rangi! He came to Pakistan, his land of dreams, and lived in LaluKhet til he died...``

I don`t know where you fellows get your fantasies from. It broke Bundu Khan`s heart to leave his beloved Delhi. He went to Pakistan only after he had no choice. Despite his family having left earlier he stayed behind in Delhi and it was a wrenching decision for him to ultimately leave. Furthermore, Bundu Khan had NO interest in the political happenings. When he once heard that one Jinnah is scheduled to come to the Delhi radio station he is said to have said ``No problem, I will give him Sarangi accompaniment.`` So much for the ``beloved Pakistan`` myth. In Pakistan he was a lost man, neglected and unappreciated, and the emotional stress wrought by the move may have hastened his death. For more on Bundu Khan, read Sheila Dhar`s ``Here is Someone I`d Like you to Meet.`` One chapter is devoted to Bundu, among the most moving accounts one can find on anyone.

tantralogician

Reply to #118

Wadera writes:``...It was said that when Ustad Bundoo Khan played, his Sa-Rangi became a Sau-Rangi! He came to Pakistan, his land of dreams, and lived in LaluKhet til he died...``

I don`t know where you fellows get your fantasies from. It broke Bundu Khan`s heart to leave his beloved Delhi. He went to Pakistan only after he had no choice. Despite his family having left earlier he stayed behind in Delhi and it was a wrenching decision for him to ultimately leave. Furthermore, Bundu Khan had NO interest in the political happenings. When he once heard that one Jinnah is scheduled to come to the Delhi radio station he is said to have said ``No problem, I will give him Sarangi accompaniment.`` So much for the ``beloved Pakistan`` myth. In Pakistan he was a lost man, neglected and unappreciated, and the emotional stress wrought by the move may have hastened his death. For more on Bundu Khan, read Sheila Dhar`s ``Here is Someone I`d Like you to Meet.`` One chapter is devoted to Bundu, among the most moving accounts one can find on anyone.

tantralogician

SameerJB #93:

Regarding your request for more info on Rahmat Fateh Ali Khan concert recently held in NYC. I am a casual music listener so cannot give you any great musical details. He played at a bar called the Village Underground in Greenwich Village and the troupe included his father (who I presume is Nusrats brother) and his kid brother (Wahadat? looked 14 or 15) who was on stage for the first time. Rahmat has a very powerful voice - he comes across as a modest low key person but maybe thats surmising too much from watching a person on a stage. Songs he played included numbers from his new album, Jhoole Lal, Dum-a-dum mast qalandhar etc. and when pressed for an encore he ended with ``Kina Sona Rab Ne Banaye``. Rahmats voice is awesome and he can go up and down the scale with ease. The audience consisted largely of subcontinentals, smoking thankfully wasnt allowed, and there was the obligatory blonde in the audience who would get up and start dancing to the music. Then there were some other guys who would show up on the stage and start dropping dollar bills one by one on the troupe. The close circuit TV operator was intent on using all his special effects. The audience was relatively small about 150-200 people but not bad for a weekday. The whole audience, myself included, was swaying with the music. It was a great evening.

nasah #121

`Dil jalta hai` is actually by Mukesh and not Saigal. The first few years of his career Mukesh consciously copied the singing style of Saigal (because of his popularity I guess). He was convinced (by Anil Biswas? Naushad? don`t remember) later to stick to his own characteristic style.

On the ragas, Darbari and Malkauns both sound sombre with haunting movements, but are quite different as far as ragas go. Darbari belongs to the Asavari thaat while Malkauns is from the Bhairavi thaat.

SameerJB

[Now what is raag darbari and how one can identify it by just listening to any piece in that raga?]

Each raga has a specific set of notes and characteristic movements which are common to any piece set in that raga, and can be used to identify it.

There are quite a few sites on classical music, but check out this one http://www.itcsra.com

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Re:Reply #: 122

Asif Naqshbandi,

Agree with your post. Quality is a must. In this respect i know that a lot of very good Pak plays were made many years ago and i know that these were freely available in Bombay at the time.

Joint production of some interesting historical movies is a very good idea. There are some incredibly talented people on both sides of the border and a mega-project like this would launch their careers. As far as i know, no one has so far made a movie on the Mughal emperor Akbar. Other topics like Heer-Ranjha or Soni-Mahiwal are also of interest to people on both sides. The big question is, will the politicians agree on this. I doubt it. We are having tough time playing cricket. Talking about a joint production of a movie seems far-fetched right now.

Sridhar

Dear SameerJB:

re:#113

``Bare Ghulam Ali Khan is worth lot more than that. I Think that is in raag darbari. Now what is raag darbari and how one can identify it by just listening to any piece in that raga?``

Indeed, he is priceless. Khan Sahib was a rare gem.

That classic thumri by Bade Gulam Ali Khan -- ka karooN sajni aye na balam`` -- is in raag BhairveeN.

Another classic - a gazal by KL Sehgal(?) -- dil jultaa hai to julne de, asooN na baha feryad na ker -- is in rag Darbari -- one of the most popular and enchanting raagas -- rather close to Maalkous.

No other way to identify except to learn the scales -- and listen time after time with the constant reminder that this is such and such raag -- or take a course in Indian classical music -- something not easily available here -- or in India or Pakistan.

Unfortunately there is such a paucity of music teaching tapes and CDs from the subcontinent.

These India