Implications for India

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Sridhar, Sadna and et-al:

some observations:

1. There was a newsweek article feb 19,2001

article written by martha brant and roy gutman.

on page 35,they had indicated that obl-taliban-assoc had been trying to get nuclear materials but the authors questioned whether they have the know-how to put together a bomb.

Now, in TFT current edition, 0928/100401, under

nuggets from urdu press, it is reported that

taliban invited a whole bunch of folks from Pakistan for afghani independence day in aug 2001 and this included a famous nuclear scientist from pakistan. if one puts two and two they can guess what i am implying.

2. similarly, in rawa.org they had put a whole bunch of pictures which showed afghani indepence day being celebrated in kabul or kandahar(i am not sure) and all the maulanas and mullahs from various madrassas in pakistan and various intelligence from isi were seated to watch the ``parade`. by the way, afghani independence year is 1911 and since they are much more older than than the existance of pakistan, afgans have never recognized the durand line which separates

both pak/afghanistan regardless who ruled kabul.

kabul has been claiming NWFP as its own. once you are in nwfp then next door india.

3. what happens if obl hid somewhere in nwfp in friendly taliban territory? that would be a tactitical advantage for obl since it would put US in a quandary. my guess is obl is somewhere in nwfp(similar afghan terrain).

4. i personally think india ought to join with pakistan to establish a ``union of south asia``(USA)to further economic activity in that region. this will be a win-win for everyone.

Thanks.

PS: when all said and done, when the rubber meets the road, i wonder what the proportion of student/tourist visas would be for muslim countries, including pakistan? that will be a test. one thing that popped in this tragedy is that the hijackers had so many ``aliases``. if islam allows so many aliases, then US immigration would treating this very carefully in the future.

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RE Nasah and Rsridhar

Exactly. May I add that we have an adequate supply of popcorn as we watch the drama unfold. But on a more serious note, there should be stepped up vigilance on the borders just in case this spills over.

I have to agree with Sridhar in that India should not see every global crisis vis avis Pakistan.

I reckon that el mushy might try to ratch up the violence in Kashmir to keep India on the edge, but that is a dicey proposition for him. But that said, it would be interesting just to see the reaction on the other side if the Americans do land in the land of the pure and set up a base or two there.

Ras

In the `global fight against terrorism`, India should keep silent? Pakistanis and others should keep funding jihadi activities against India from US soil using US dollars, and India should keep silent?

Whats up?

Some great advice for India from one of its best!

http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/260901/detide01.asp

Ras

Re:Reply #: 119

mohajir

Indian politicians have shown that,when confronted by a global tragedy, they can only think of Pakistan. India is not ready to play a global role. I also feel it does not deserve a seat in the security council simply because it does not think global. GOI seems to be bothered about the fallout of this problem vis-a-vis Pakistan. I thought the best thing India can do is to stay out of this mess but am amused to find the politicians bemoaning the fact that they are being neglected (by USA).

Sridhar

sadna 122:

The problem is what happens when organs of the state are let loose to terrorize their own citizens.

This is a problem Kashmiri civillians, average Indian/Pakistani citizens, people of color in big cities in USA face (granted in varying degrees).

Veeresh 131

[Can you imagine, Arab houseboys and housemaids?]

La HuLa Bila Kuwat! You are insulting hobbyty and nakbandi, insulting Islam. You are part of a worldwide conspiracy to destroy Islam. I am sending a peaceful self-purifying Jehadi with a few guns to murder you.

If you want to see our peaceful self puring jehadis in purifying act, visit this newspaper run by world wide Jewish conspiracy

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/international/23NETW.html

Peace be with you while you are purified.

nasah #132
``India doesn`t have to do a thing -- except lay back, relax and watch Moohhsruff deal with his Rosemary babies``.

nasah, lets hope so. It sounds a little too good to be true though, I think India should keep fighting tooth and nail at every step:). There is apparently a list of terrorist organisations to be released tomorrow whose assets will be sought to be frozen, lets see which those are.

``I personally think the Indian government is not being aggressive enough in putting pressure on these irresponsible countries to protect its citizens from future attacks in Kashmir and other parts of India.``(Sadna)

Dear Sadna:

India doesn`t have to do a thing -- except lay back, relax and watch Moohhsruff deal with his Rosemary babies.

Implications for India?

1) Dubai & Kuala Lumpur as via media for trade and financial business now slowly being strangled and then shut down. No more planes and ships from these and 22 other countries allowed to trade major nation/s. Shades of how Beirut was ``done in`` during the `70s.

2) Diplomats from Pakistan and Afghanistan being re-settled in Amritsar. The Wagah/Attari border has become almost an open border for everybody other than us Indians and Pakistanis. Check out the ``temporary CD plate`` vehicles on both sides of our borders lately.

3) A generation of Arabs in Saudia and Kuwait will now have to work for their living. Will they come to India and Pakistan to work for us, once the dollars flow in? Can you imagine, Arab houseboys and housemaids?

4) Dubai InterNet City and Kuala Lumpur Knowledge Mile are still not getting populated. The new companies coming to India on the other hand keep growing.

5) Met a production manager from Whirlpool on the plane last night, his order book for exports of production from India has tripled. Reason? Expected high demand.

6) Spoke with a shippie batchmate on his way to UK to try to figure out how to get hold of more Indian and Pakistani seafarers for flag of convienience ships, shades of Gulf East back again? Most East European and Far East nationality seafarers not acceptable in USA and other major trading nations.

What is our future? If our governments could just listen to the economies moving, it is boom time. Bombay-Delhi route on Indian Airlines now reporting full planes, but hotels going empty. Share market crashing but liquidity of actual money sloshing about.

For anybody but the blind, this is boomtime in India and Pakistan.

Gentlemen,

Perhaps we can come up with other analogies for international relations besides the ubiquitous `female country being soiled by another country` trope? Mehrbani se?...such clever minds at work, do put some effort into it.. Its really getting annoying.

regards

kafir k khan #122
``Why is Indian government keen to give when nothing is asked from them ?``

Good question and here is my opinion.

Till Sept 11, regarding activities of Pakistani/Afghani jihadi organisations and religious parties
1. if Americans/Britishers were killed, it was terrorism
2. if Pakistanis were killed, it was strategic depth
3. if Indians were killed, it was freedom fighting and a principled stand for self-determination

The US and Pakistan were playing this triple game till Sept 11. Now some light has dawned, everyone is scrambling to save their life from the fallling masonry of collapsing contradictions.

So now a double game is being attempted by Pakistan, while we are yet to see which way US will play it.
Namely where Pakistani/Afghan jihadi organisations and support for them is concerned:
1. If Americans/Britishers/Pakistanis( some of them) are targetted, it is terrorism
2. if Indians are targetted, it is freedom fighting and in Pakistan`s national interest

Why are definations important, specially US-made ones? Well, Bush spoke of attacking terrorists and those who harbor terrorists. What does this statement mean to India?

When Delhi Red Fort was attacked by Pakistanis from the Pakistani organisation Lashkar-e-Toiba, Lashkar-e-Toiba remained freedom fighters, they didnot make the transition to terrorists in the US lexicon. Why does it matter? Well, until Lashkar-e-Toiba is designated a terrorist organisation by the US, they are still able to collect funds and do their business in the US. So as far as India is concerned, after the Delhi Red Fort was attacked, US was one of the primary countries which continued to harbor and abet those terrorists.

Could India do anything about it? No.
Can India declare war like Bush does, on those who harbor terrorists and play double games like the US and Pakistan? I donot think so.

So merely providing help and information to the US or refraining from attacking Pakistan while Pakistan(and the US) change their game from a triple one to a double one, hoping that `the truth if revealed will ultimately prevail` is a good start but its not enough.

I personally think the Indian government is not being aggressive enough in putting pressure on these irresponsible countries to protect its citizens from future attacks in Kashmir and other parts of India.

RE: kafir k khan

{{Bajpai has no ``IJJAT``. He is taking his dhoti off and telling USA - ``AAP Le Lijiye`` when USA does not want it. Advani says``Hamne offer kar diya hai, moka milte hi America Lelega. Jaswant Singh goes a step forward,``I am going to USA next week and will convince them the need of unstinted Lelo}}

Those 2 buffoons ABV and Advani may not get it, but don`t underestimate Jaswant. This is the guy who held off a barking and angry Strobe Talbott after the 1998 tests in 12 rounds of ``talks`` ... apparently now he is Strobe`s buddy. Pretty shrewd fellow.

kafir kk: you are such a funny man...all these sexual jokes about South Asian leaders...ha!ha!...thank God you chose to get your a-- out of Pakistan...ha!ha!...just do us a favor and stay out...ha!ha!...and watch it...your cab almost ran up a phone pole...ha!ha!...you are sooooooo funny my man.