Explaining it to an American Friend

Pakistan was moderate innocent country, I am the Pope.

PM

Excellent piece. The picture is unclear, the players in this drama have yet to reveal themselves and their intentions.

A ``war`` against ``terrorism``? A ``New`` war?! ``Terrorism``?

Thomas is as frustrated as we are - and equally, if not more so, in the dark.

Speaking for myself, I still am unable to come to grips with the act - I don`t know how to frame it, how to understand it and how to understand the response ``New`` war.

[It is indeed disgusting that Pakistan have supported -- even nurtured! -- the Taliban with such short-sighted goals as guerrilla-warfare in Kashmir (a disputed territory between Pak and India, which India occupies)]

I suppose Pakistan doesn`t ``occupy`` its part of Kashmir but has given them independence.

[and keeping the Shiites (the Taliban`s opponents and a different sect of Muslims from mainstream Pakis) from coming to power in Afghanistan?]

Is that all you guys were doing? Sheesh, and here I was, thinking that they were killing the Shias in Pakistan itself. All because I read that old rascally knave Ardeshir Cowasjee who said that 53 out of 56 doctors killed recently in Pakistan were Shias.

[Only, bin Laden at least has grievances with the West, however skewed his judgement may be.]

Like, the infidel Americans should get out of the Holy Land called Saudi Arabia.

When we horrible Hindoos excluded the Untouchables from our temples, that is casteism gone horribly wrong. But when YOU guys exclude others from an entire country, you are protecting the holiness of your religious sites. How wonderfully logical!

Really, this article is something worthy of YLH, Sarwari having already crapped on the Chowk.

chowkstaff:

What did you folks do with the intro?

gowardhan/harimau,

could you leave one Chowk board without your hateful excrements?

PM,

interesting correspondence you shared with us.

thanks

Taleban are the biggest friggin liars on this bioshpere. Remember how they lied to Pakistan about Riaz Basra and other terrorists wanted by Pakistan?

For the sake of Pakistan and all muslims, I hope the biosphere is cleansed of Taleban.

digression from article:

hullo Mr.PM!

i think ure terribly nice :0)

love,

anNy

Patrick,

I appreciate and sincerely identify with the sentiments that begot this response from you to your American friend. But, the exigencies of prompt reply might have been the cause of the various loopholes of logic and reason in this letter of yours.

``You know it well enough... first it was the Communisits who were the devil incarnate, then the pedophiles, now it`s the turn of the `Taliban`! having a name for the enemy on whom we can pour all scorn is really one of the most convenient, if not wisest, ways to handle conflict.``

When making out the case I do not understand how you got the word paedophile into this. Unlike Communists and the Taliban, who are representatives of a diametrically opposite ideology, ( This is the best meaning of the terms)

paedophilia cannot qualify as an ideology can it?

Do I misunderstand you? Or do you mean to say that when a mob wants to stone somebody...you just label the man a Taliban/Commie or Paedophile...

``It is indeed disgusting that Pakistan have supported -- even nurtured! -- the Taliban with such short-sighted goals as guerrilla-warfare in Kashmir (a disputed territory between Pak and India, which India occupies) and keeping the Shiites (the Taliban`s opponents and a different sect of Muslims from mainstream Pakis) from coming to power in Afghanistan. But Thomas, the United States has had an equally strong, if indirect, hand in creating the present day religious extremists both in Pakistan and Afghanistan...``

I`ll leave the no attempt to be ``correct`` on Kashmir for other more patriotic than me...but thought I`ll remind you the consensus in a foreign news wire`s newsroom on how to describe the situation without taking sides...`` India and Pakistan each hold part of Kashmir, and lay claim to the other half...``

``I might also add that the Talibani leadership in Afghanistan as well as all religious parties in Pakistan condemned the terrorist attacks unequivocally.``

If I am not wrong Patrick, and I am likely to be because I have been caught in a storm of reports from all kinds of interests including the prime western, Indian and Pakistani...besides an occassional IRNA...while the deaths have been condoned and the attacks condemned...i am not too sure of the ``unequivocally`` part. Most of these reactions have ended up questioning or directly attributing the attacks to being the fallout of the US foreign policy. And seeking introspection from the US...and in cases even veiled threats that similar things are in store ``if they don`t introspect.``

``Thomas, in my humble opinion, the Taliban may be many things (misogynists, bigots and fanatics) but they are not liars.``

What worth Patrick of a truthful misogynist, bigot and fanatic. By label they are already peddlers of their brand of truth is it not? Like Thomas...

``The US holds all the moral aces at the moment, and look like they`re going to play them out ruthlessly...``

Ahh...the ruthless playing out of moral aces is what the Taliban are doing..are they not? And, I think there is no such thing as a moral ace...it is merely that the victim`s ``defensive overcompensation`` is relatively easier to understand and forgive...because the first stone was cast by somebody else.

``P.S. Thomas, you also mention your disgust at the sight of Palestinians dancing in the streets. I felt similarly. But on later observation, I found that this was only possible as long as they were able to perceive the events as an attack on an abstraction called America...perhaps symbolized for them very well in the tall, proud structures that were the WTC. The instant it was perceived as a human tragedy-- as a cataclysmic event of human suffering, all rejoicing ceased.``

This is the most perceptive statement in your article. I agree entirely with this dissection. It is this distancing of people from people...till symbols overtake... that is a major cause of concern. I see those three or four year olds with toy assault rifles being ridden like mascots ahead of extremist rallies in Pakistan... and gleefully clicked and disseminated across the globe as the ``real pakistan`` by the Reuters, CNN and the like...and I look closely at a similar child who is next to that boy with the toy gun...now the proud father of the mascot...

PS: Would love to read Thomas` response to your detailed mail.

Harish

PM,

Another pathetic attempt to look the other way, not to confront reality. Islam is the religion of peace, but why is it so misunderstood, it is always the mullah, the wrong interpretations. If a book is so prone to misinterpretations, revise the book, or at least add some modern commentry. Well well there is trouble,, fatwas are flying.

Some where the muslims have to accept that a muslim coutry attacked is not an attack on their religion. It is time the muslims accept the difference between islam and muslims.

It is pathetic to see the pakistanis accpting the notion of islamic brother hood and kalifayaet spanning the globe. No one wants to tell the fellow muslims that what is happening in paleastine is a political problem, not religious. Well, what did I learn, yeah k for kafir, all are kafirs...the wretched children of TNT..

Dear Patrick Masih

I wish Gen. Musharraf and our leaders had as good analytical skills as you have.

Your friend Tom is high fidelity representation of American mind set today - hysteric, confused and ready to lurch at anything. Simplistic solution - bomb them out - presto.

Regardless of his faith every human condemns the diabolical carnage at WTC - and firmly believes that all responsible for such a crime be brought to justice. However, the way FBI and Security Agencies have linked the crime to Ben laden or Taleban has raised some serious doubts:

a) The ``Arabic Flight Manuals`` story.

b) 7 out of 16 Saudi ``hijackers`` found alive.

c) Dale Moore ELINT intercept ``target is hit`` - a piece of fiction authored by a retard.

On one hand, the world`s best security network could not get a hint on a plan that must have been preparation for months or years - and on other hand they ``crack`` it within 11 hours! thats balooney.

In cases where the roots cannot be traced, the first suspicion falls on benefactors - in this case ISRAEL. However, Bush administration has already declared a War on Taleban and Afghanistan.

Pakistan has agreed to serve as a PIMP; for little or no commission; in line with our past glorious traditions.

Bombing Afghanistan - let US try it to its hearts content. The Russians tried it for 9 long years.

In fact most Afghans would love to see a full scale US involvement, a la Vietnam; Dick Cheney`s words are a music to their ears. They think its good for the economy. They dont care for OBL or Taleban. They all complain that the last time around, those darn Russians were too poor !

AND - dont forget that a section of Pakistan`s population (3-5-10% whatever) is as ``rabid`` in their feelings as Taleban.

Probably you and I come form the ``yuppies calss`` - we have little if any at stake in Pakistan anyways. Yet it hurts to see our homeland turning into South Vietnam (model 2001), Islamabad as Tan Son Nhut, Pakistan Army as ARVN and Gen. Musharraf as Air Vice Marshall Cao Ky.

Re: harimau

Well-said.

PM
I can only say this.
I wish Pakistanis has been as determined to reexamine their foreign policy for its `fairness` toward humanity(even Pakistani and Afghan humanity) as you are determined to urge the US to do.

I wish Pakistanis were as determined to exact revenge and as enraged, shocked and saddened as the US for their own citizens` lives lost to jihad and sectarian violence in recent time as they were by the loss of American lives. I am sure these lost Pakistani lives numbered much much more than 5500. And those responsible for both the foreign policy and for not addressing its cost on Pakistan are inside the military headquarters and government, its not a hit from the outside like a plane hitting the Pentagon.

``If wishes were horses..``

Oops, sorry.
I wish Pakistanis had been as determined to reexamine their foreign policy for its `fairness` toward humanity(even Pakistani and Afghan humanity) as you are determined to urge the US to do.

I wish Pakistanis were as determined to exact revenge and as enraged, shocked and saddened at their own citizens` lives lost to jihad and sectarian violence in recent times as they were by the loss of American lives. I am sure these lost Pakistani lives numbered much much more than 5500. And those responsible for both the foreign policy and for not addressing its cost on Pakistan are sitting inside the military headquarters and government, its not a hit from the outside like a plane hitting the Pentagon.

``If wishes were horses..``

P Masih!

Overly simplistic but good try.

Thrasher

Save it! You`ll get your chance for blood. Idiots such as you play into the hands of those terrorists who planned and executed the TT and Pentagon missions.

Here`s what you have failed to comprehend: they`ll keep coming; 4 here, 10 there.

While your rank may well have been deserved, most persons will agree that the solution to terrorism cannot be more terrorism. But it is too early for Americans to think clearly - they want blood and they will get it. But remember, the loss of virginity has consequences. Everything has consequences, best we think of these to help us shape responses.

Why is it`s next to impossibile to remove Islam from politics in Islamia:

``Where Islam Meets Politics: A Quandary for the U.S.

Graham E. Fuller Los Angeles Times Syndicate

Little could be as daunting as the geopolitics of taking on terrorism in Afghanistan. There is a wealth of conflicting agendas across the region involving Islamic politics, no element of which fully dovetails with U.S. interests.

The Taleban came to power in Afghanistan in 1996 with the mission of restoring law and order - on the basis of a highly conservative interpretation of Islam - in a country racked by civil war since the 1980s Soviet occupation. The Taleban inherited a country full of training camps for Islamic radicals from all around Central Asia and the Arab world, many of whom had helped liberate Afghanistan from the Soviet Union.

While the Taleban had few external designs, it has not wanted to expel these fighters, out of Islamic loyalty and because they have helped the Taleban against the forces of the more moderate previous Afghan Islamist regime.

The single central reality is that Islam acts as the natural vehicle of politics across the Muslim world. In the Muslim world the Koran serves as a source for justice, humanity, good governance and opposition to corruption. Islam provides ideology both for internal struggle against secular authoritarian rule and for Muslim minorities seeking liberation from frequently harsh non-Muslim rule.

Thus Central Asia has produced a welter of Islamist movements, many now radical or violent, in response to what they have seen as radical and violent conditions of dictatorship, oppression of believers, corruption and bad governance:

•Uzbekistan`s neo-Stalinist regime has jailed, tortured, killed or exiled opponents of any stripe, generating an armed Islamist opposition movement; the Uzbek government would love to cooperate against ``terrorism`` because it applies this label to all opposition.

•Chinese oppression of 8 million Uyghur Turkish Muslims in Xinjiang has pushed Uyghurs toward nationalism and Islam; these movements have turned violent. China would love to co-opt Washington`s ``war on terrorism`` to justify crushing Uyghur activity.

•The Chechens have fought for independence from Russia for more than 200 years, traditionally in the name of an Islamic struggle. Russia, too, welcomes a ``war against terrorism`` that justifies crushing the Chechens.

•Muslim Kashmiris invoke Islam as part of their struggle against India.

•In Tajikistan, clan warfare has typically taken on Islamic coloration.

•Iran, too, hates the Taleban because they are so harshly anti-Shiite.

•Afghan camps provide training to Kashmiri guerrillas who constitute Pakistan`s major foothold in Kashmir and a bargaining chip with India in granting Kashmir more autonomy.

These opposition groups, and some from Arab countries, have been using Afghanistan for guerrilla training, many for more than 20 years.

It is not Afghanistan that has generated these movements; regional conditions that have generated the movements that have sought refuge in Afghanistan. Most regional powers - India, Iran, Russia, China, Uzbekistan - would welcome an end to an Afghan regime that provides refuge for their opposition movements. But for the United States, some of these powers are barely acceptable bedfellows.

There are limits to the geopolitical tolerance even of these states for U.S. goals, however. While none will shed tears for the Taleban, most are hostile to any hint of U.S. hegemony in Asia and to American unilateralism. They fear the precedent of U.S. military action on their doorsteps that would strengthen American interventionism around the world.

In the Middle East, most autocratic regimes face political opposition, typically from local Islamist movements, most nonviolent but a few of them violent, as in Algeria and Egypt. Many Muslims see Islamist movements as natural vehicles of struggle, often peaceful, against entrenched regimes that refuse to liberalize - in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Tunisia, to name a few.

Thus if an American ``war against terrorism`` ends up being a war on behalf of entrenched regimes against even peaceful Islamist movements - or ends up strengthening Israeli control over Palestinians - it is likely to engender suspicion about the real U.S. agenda.

The choice is very tough because as these Islamic struggles continue, they tend to become more radicalized. Equitable solutions of the Palestinian and Kashmiri problems are almost a prerequisite for gaining genuine regional acquiescence to U.S. war aims.

Pakistan is in the toughest position of all. With a powerful India to its east, Islamabad needs strategic depth on the west. It helped the Taleban come to power to restore order in Afghanistan via friendly forces. It did not bargain that Afghanistan would become the center of controversy.

While Pakistan has no love for Osama bin Laden, the Taleban is a useful ally. If it is compelled to force the Taleban to turn over Mr. bin Laden, Pakistan would be vulnerable to a backlash from an Islamic population that views Mr. bin Laden as a hero, not only standing up to the Soviet Union but now to ``American imperialism.`` It would be ironic if the United States got Mr. bin Laden and in the process lost Pakistan to hard-line fundamentalists.

Across much of the Middle East and Central Asia, it is very tough to separate terrorism from politics - particularly in the eyes of Muslims. As Washington bids to become involved in the domestic politics of many countries, it is likely to lose friends at the popular level.

The writer, a former vice chairman of the CIA`s National Intelligence Council and political officer at the U.S. Embassy in Kabul from 1975 to 1978, is author of the Rand Corporation study ``Islamic Fundamentalism in Afghanistan.`` He contributed this comment to the Los Angeles Times Syndicate.