A Time for Renewal

rsridhar # 608

``If this is what Shahi Imam wants to do he should move to Pakistan, where i am sure he will have a big following.``

Hey keep your nuts in India,we have enough of our

own.Only recently we have been able to identify

and point out your other nuts with MPS(multiple

personality syndrome) and you are welcome to them:)))

Regards.

Eklavya # 607

Oooops! The confusion arose from my poor grasp of English grammar rather than my ignorance.``

From MY poor grasp of English grammer.....you are

a naughty person..LOL

BTW have you guys on chowk noted the subtle change

in the writing skill/s of Bapu,Bhardwaj,Bijli,

Shah,Studebaker,Faiza,Fatimah,Deepika et al as well as the acceptance of their Indian roots post 9/11.Previously they were staunch wannabe Pakis.I

always knew that Pakis couldn`t be THAT stupid:)))

Regards.

SemiPreciousMe:

Glad to read your rambling! It seems that you really know how to enjoy the changing colors. :) Good to know that! Interestingly, fall has a very different significance here in the US. Back home, it`s not the most uplifting time of the year. I guess probably, because we are very bahar-oriented.

I remember watching the changing colors of the tall trees that stood very gracefully on both sides of the main road in Lahore Cantt. Once you take a left turn from the Lahore airport and go to the first traffic light and then make a right -that`s it. That`s the place: giving a greenhouse kind of effect. I guess one of the army`s local head`s residence is on the right side. That area has beautiful trees. And the Pat`Jhar` season brings a lot of dry leaves there. The leaves in that area do not get a chance to turn into coppery shades. They simply go from green to dark golden and then into shades of brown. I grew up in that area. Every time I go home, I have to pass by that spot just to inhale the smell in the air and pass by the old but strong trees. Some of the trees, after attaining a certain height, just criss-cross each other at the top, forming a mehrab-like-structure. Amazingly pretty! That`s not it. Then, the trees start whispering in each others` ears and unanimously announce the festivity in the air :) Most of the trees are very old and tall; and mashallah strong and beautiful.

With that, I wish you a very ``Happy Fall`` wherever you are on the face of earth. Just appreciate the colors and their beauty. It can be very moving :)

Take Care.

Re: TAhmed

``Imran Khan is a handsome man,``

Aren`t you a married man?

Re: semipreciousme

``as for south american women, here i agree (it is possible!) with saxena…venezuelan/brazialian women are striking…and their men aren’t too bad either ;)``

saying ``venezuelan/brazilian`` melds them together inaccurately...there is a visible difference between the two..the former take the cake by far, at least as far as the women go

``..aplenty in lhr : ) but sadly lacking in the persona dept….what bout middle eastern guys?…and iranians?…``

oyeee...lacking? WOMAN they have more bharam and class than any other group of males...whatre u saying! but then im biased..i have this thing for very jhanglee punjabi men :)

middle eastern? have never met creepier more ghanda men...this friend is from yemen and she has a huge group of friends from all over the middle east..lebenon and god knows what all places..they freak me out..once i made the supreme mistake of dropping in on a party with all those clowns...bolted out after 10 minutes...very mehla people..iranians now, are HOT..whydyou think i go to iran every year ;) laikin sirf daikhnae tak..they open their mouths and u feel like going howling at lifes unfairness to your mama

Faiza #636 Imran Khan is a handsome man, was captain of the Pakistan cricket team, started a cancer hospital, and married a rich and beautiful woman. Good for him. Here is the bad news: First, Imran Khan`s ability to think logically and rationally, leave alone his ability to envision a positive future, is very limited. Second, he represents no one - he failed to win any seats in local elections to date. Third, his views on just vs. unjust war are no better informed than that of the captain of the Multan Kabaddi team (and the latter can hold his breath longer).

You are better off using your own judgement than listening to him. The Indian paper that interviewed him probably thought this would catch it`s readers` interest (since Imran Khan is handsome, married into ...you know the drill). However, it is does not come close to providing either a balanced assessment of the war in Afghanistan.

The Americans military is again messing up their campaign in Afghanistan.

To send American commandos into Afghanistan -- in high fluting Hollywood style -- without decapitating FIRST the Taliban troops on the ground -- in Mazare Sharif -- in Herat -- and 20 miles from Kabul -- will prove to be the MOTHER of all follies for the US military effort.

It`s inviting -- a disaster like Somalia -- waiting to happen any moment.

Bush has a one track agenda -- all this military might -- to capture Osama bin Laden.

But the Americans military strategists don`t realize -- that they CANNOT get OSAMA unless they first get MULLA OMAR and his Talibani field troops.

Musharraf was RIGHT when he suggested to the Americans -- that the way to kill or capture the SON-IN-LAW -- is to FIRST capture or kill the FATHE-IN-LAW.

It`s a sad commentary on the war effort of the Americans -- that 3 weeks in the bombings -- and not a single city has fallen to the Taliban opposition -- yet.

Talibans are able to bring reinforcements in Mazare-Sharif -- able to hang the leaders of rising resistance inside the city -- push the Northern Alliance troops back -- and recapture the airport -- despite our total air superiority over Afghanistan -- some ``air superiority``.

Even a god forsaken place like Taaluuqan has not fallen -- while we are killing the civilians in Kabul.

With all our feel-good military might in Afghanistan on 24 hour display on TV -- can’t we even take the ground troops of Talibans in support of Northern Alliance

Just think of it -- what a boost to morale of the anti Taliban population of the cities would have been -- if far flung cities like Herat and Mazare-Sharif would have to the Allied opposition.

Even that one track god dammed agenda of ONLY capturing Osams bin Laden -- would have realized sooner -- with no ``loss of American lives``.

hamidm #617 ``i will look it up in the kiran - i have three copies and maulana maudoodis tafseer as well ``

Aha!! we have found your problem - you have been confused by your elders or whoever into thinking maudoodi can explain islam and that is why you are condemned to a life of self-loathing.

I have never read a book by maudoodi and never will. I dont consider it worth my time (and I say that despite the fact that I find time to spend on chowk), since I have never found a maudoodiite who has been able to explain the logic behind the basic position of maudoodi, namely the merger of church and state. The logical flaw in maudoodism of course is that there is no concept of a church in Islam to begin with, and the concept of a priesthood (intercessors) is explicitly condemned in the Quran. If you want to ridicule maudoodism, more power to you. But dont do it in a way that makes you look more ridiculous than then mullahs.

For those who missed Oprah`s show, a review by a Canadian historian:

``OPRAH’S CRASH COURSE program ``Islam 101``, which aired on October 5, still has me reeling.

In Oprah’s interview with Queen Rania of Jordan, the Queen affirmed that Islam ``doesn`t impose anything`` on people.



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Professor Akbar Ahmed, meanwhile, who is a former Pakistani Ambassador to Great Britain and is now the Chair of Islamic Studies at American University in Washington D.C., stated that the terrorist attacks are, ``Not Islam, because Islam clearly says that the killing of one innocent life is like killing all of humanity. It is just not allowed in Islam.``

On another part of the show, the statement was made that, ``Muslims do not think that there is a non-Islamic world out there that we have to conquer. That is not the concept in Islam. Our job is to get to know one another, and the more we do that the better off we are.``

Oprah did not challenge any of these remarks.

So, um, Islam ``doesn’t impose anything`` on people? I can’t help from wondering: what would happen to a woman in a country like Iran or Afghanistan who, let’s say, just felt like taking her veil or burqa off – and did so? What would happen to a Muslim in one of these countries who just decided to make it public knowledge that he/she didn’t feel like being a Muslim anymore?

This isn’t really a brain-stormer.

The teachings of Islam are not just ethical guidelines; they are binding laws with severe punishments attached to them – especially under Islamic states. These punishments range from public whipping to chopping off of body parts to beheading.

Let’s not overlook the foundation of this reality: in the Qur’an, Surah 9:12 instructs that a Muslim apostate must be killed.

In other words, Queen Rania is right: Islam doesn’t impose anything on anyone; the little catch is that everyone living under an Islamic state just better follow the rules, that’s all.

According to the Qur’an, there shouldn`t be another religion besides Islam in an Islamic country (let alone anywhere else in the world). That’s why Surah 3:85 states that: ``If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him.`` That’s why Surah 2:193 instructs that there should be no separation between Church and State. And that’s why Surah 4:59 teaches that there should be no opposition party either.

Sounds like a really fun place to live doesn’t it?

I am fascinated by the statement made on Oprah that, ``Our [the Muslims’] job is to get to know one another [people of other faiths], and the more we do that the better off we are.``

Is this why the Qur’an tells its faithful (i.e. Surah 5:54) that Muslims must not take Jews or Christians for friends?

I am even more intrigued with the statement that, ``Muslims do not think that there is a non-Islamic world out there that we have to conquer.``

Is this why the Qur’an instructs Muslims to attack and kill non-Muslims as a means of achieving world hegemony under Islam? Is that why Surah 9:5 tells the faithful: ``When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters [non-Muslims] wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.``

Islam views the world as divided between the House of Peace (Dar es Salaam), which is Islamic, and the House of War (Dar el-Harb), which is non-Islamic. World peace, according to Islam, is achieved only when the world is subjected to Dar es Salaam.

I guess it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out why Muslims have a little bit of a problem creating a democracy, let alone living peacefully with non-Muslims.

In Uganda, Idi Amin slaughtered 300,000 of his own people, mostly Christians. Why did he do this? Hint: the genocide occurred only after Amin embraced Islam.

At the start of World War I, Muslim Turks massacred over 1.5 million Armenian Christians. Why? Hint: It’s the same reason the Muslim government in Khartoum has killed two million Christians and animists since imposing Islamic law nationwide in Sudan in 1993.

So what Islam are Queen Rania and Professor Ahmed referring to? Is there another Islam I haven’t heard about? Or are Rania and Ahmed basically hinting to us that we shouldn’t take history – or the Qur’an – too seriously?

Don’t get me wrong, I think Oprah’s ``Islam 101`` scored very high points in theatrical quality. It’s just that in the context of integrity, it might have left something to be desired.





Jamie Glazov holds a Ph.D. in History with a specialty...``

``I didnt mean to avoid you ,but if you read Eklvia & RSaxenas reply you would know why i said that :most western democracy have equal rights & tolerence even without EMPHASIS ON SECULARISM WORD ,And as you can read ,SECULARISM,can mean irreligousness too ,which is not good thing for a country whose majority are religous one or the many of the religions.``

Do you have a problem with the word secular or with the fact that India is emphasizing the fact that it is secular?

Are you saying the US doesn`t pride itself in being secular? You are way wrong. Just watch any channel and they will keep harping about individual freedom to the extent that they have now started claiming the terrorists attacked the US because they were jealous of the individual freedom in the US. They might not use the word secularism but they certainly do wear it on their sleeve. They are VERY proud of the fact that all citizens of the US have the same rights irrespective of their viewpoints, color or religion.

So, please don`t beat India for being proud of its secularism.

And why shouldn`t India be proud of it either? Here we have two sister countries one of which is a theocracy and the other has Islam as its state religion. Under such circumstance shouldn`t India pride itself in being secular? Why shouldn`t we wear secularism on our sleeves?

``My problem with Shabana is very simple.Why dont you ask Sri Devi or Kajol about ram janm bhoomi or legality of mandir over mosque ??Why dont you?``

Why should I ask Kajol? Kajol is not a social worker. Just because Shabana Azmi happens to be an actress doesn`t mean her opinion doesn`t count. She has always been at the forefront expressing her opinions. Why not in this case?

``Shabana is no more than an actress entertrainer ,may be good for campaigning to pull crowd but not a credible opinion consultant .

thats it ``

And you think Bukhari is? You think Bukhari is a good guage of Muslim sentiment in India?

For those who missed Oprah`s show, a review by a Canadian historian:

``OPRAH’S CRASH COURSE program ``Islam 101``, which aired on October 5, still has me reeling.

In Oprah’s interview with Queen Rania of Jordan, the Queen affirmed that Islam ``doesn`t impose anything`` on people.



Make Comments

View Comments

Printable Article

Email Article







Professor Akbar Ahmed, meanwhile, who is a former Pakistani Ambassador to Great Britain and is now the Chair of Islamic Studies at American University in Washington D.C., stated that the terrorist attacks are, ``Not Islam, because Islam clearly says that the killing of one innocent life is like killing all of humanity. It is just not allowed in Islam.``

On another part of the show, the statement was made that, ``Muslims do not think that there is a non-Islamic world out there that we have to conquer. That is not the concept in Islam. Our job is to get to know one another, and the more we do that the better off we are.``

Oprah did not challenge any of these remarks.

So, um, Islam ``doesn’t impose anything`` on people? I can’t help from wondering: what would happen to a woman in a country like Iran or Afghanistan who, let’s say, just felt like taking her veil or burqa off – and did so? What would happen to a Muslim in one of these countries who just decided to make it public knowledge that he/she didn’t feel like being a Muslim anymore?

This isn’t really a brain-stormer.

The teachings of Islam are not just ethical guidelines; they are binding laws with severe punishments attached to them – especially under Islamic states. These punishments range from public whipping to chopping off of body parts to beheading.

Let’s not overlook the foundation of this reality: in the Qur’an, Surah 9:12 instructs that a Muslim apostate must be killed.

In other words, Queen Rania is right: Islam doesn’t impose anything on anyone; the little catch is that everyone living under an Islamic state just better follow the rules, that’s all.

According to the Qur’an, there shouldn`t be another religion besides Islam in an Islamic country (let alone anywhere else in the world). That’s why Surah 3:85 states that: ``If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him.`` That’s why Surah 2:193 instructs that there should be no separation between Church and State. And that’s why Surah 4:59 teaches that there should be no opposition party either.

Sounds like a really fun place to live doesn’t it?

I am fascinated by the statement made on Oprah that, ``Our [the Muslims’] job is to get to know one another [people of other faiths], and the more we do that the better off we are.``

Is this why the Qur’an tells its faithful (i.e. Surah 5:54) that Muslims must not take Jews or Christians for friends?

I am even more intrigued with the statement that, ``Muslims do not think that there is a non-Islamic world out there that we have to conquer.``

Is this why the Qur’an instructs Muslims to attack and kill non-Muslims as a means of achieving world hegemony under Islam? Is that why Surah 9:5 tells the faithful: ``When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters [non-Muslims] wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.``

Islam views the world as divided between the House of Peace (Dar es Salaam), which is Islamic, and the House of War (Dar el-Harb), which is non-Islamic. World peace, according to Islam, is achieved only when the world is subjected to Dar es Salaam.

I guess it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out why Muslims have a little bit of a problem creating a democracy, let alone living peacefully with non-Muslims.

In Uganda, Idi Amin slaughtered 300,000 of his own people, mostly Christians. Why did he do this? Hint: the genocide occurred only after Amin embraced Islam.

At the start of World War I, Muslim Turks massacred over 1.5 million Armenian Christians. Why? Hint: It’s the same reason the Muslim government in Khartoum has killed two million Christians and animists since imposing Islamic law nationwide in Sudan in 1993.

So what Islam are Queen Rania and Professor Ahmed referring to? Is there another Islam I haven’t heard about? Or are Rania and Ahmed basically hinting to us that we shouldn’t take history – or the Qur’an – too seriously?

Don’t get me wrong, I think Oprah’s ``Islam 101`` scored very high points in theatrical quality. It’s just that in the context of integrity, it might have left something to be desired.





Jamie Glazov holds a Ph.D. in History with a specialty...``

from reflections board:

anNy

re: halfpunjabihalfkashmiri

...aplenty in lhr : ) but sadly lacking in the persona dept….what bout middle eastern guys?…and iranians?…knew a couple from isb and well….( and i mean you can tell khatami is très cute under that beard)

as for south american women, here i agree (it is possible!) with saxena…venezuelan/brazialian women are striking…and their men aren’t too bad either ;)

Zahra

“Happy Fall to all those who feel and appreciate the change of seasons and colors!”

….mmmm, fall….one of the things i miss most about america…..the metamorphosis of the green of leaves to golden, burnt-orange and auburn…raking a big pile and jumping on it like crazy….the piquancy and tanginess of the air….and not to mention all that apple cider…..sorry, i’m rambling…

also from today’s dawn, an editorial piece on Edhi…. (who is in the guinness book of world records for setting up the largest volunteer ambulance service in the world….if this guy doesn’t deserve the peace prize, i don’t know who does…)

Edhi’s jihad

ABDUL SATTAR EDHI, Pakistan’s best known social worker, was recently in Kandahar to meet Taliban officials. His aim: to seed permission form the Afghan authorities to set up a hospital and an ambulance service in the battered city. As soon as permission was granted, the tireless Edhi and his equally energetic wife Bilquis set to work shifting a number of people injured in the on-going air strikes to Chaman and on to Quetta. Edhi also handed over some 20,000 kgs of wheat for the needy and destitute of the war-ravaged country. The Good Samaritan has already established an ambulance service near the order post of Torkham to shift injured persons from the adjoining areas of Afghanistan to hospitals in Peshawar.

Over the years, the Edhi Foundation ahs reached some of the world’s most dangerous troublespots to provide aid and medical services to victims of wars and natural calamities. The Edhi Foundation has carried out relief work in Bosnia, Iraq, Nepal, Bangladesh, Burma, Uganda and Somalia, working in the most appalling conditions. In most of these cases, it was the inspirational figure of Edhi who led the way, rolling up his sleeves and performing the most daunting of tasks without flinching. In Pakistan, Edhi has gradually built up a remarkable network of services catering to millions of people. His fleet of ambulances reaches the remotest corners of the country. H is shelters for homeless women, runaway children and abandoned babies provide the most desperate and vulnerable sections of society care and support.

Remarkably, he relies solely on donations from private sources to run his organization. This is a person most Pakistanis can truly be proud of, a role model for all who seek to selflessly help humanity, a man who believes in action, not in empty words. Unfortunately, many of those who are currently speaking so passionately for the Afghan people seem to believe that rhetoric alone can end their suffering. In a shameful display of senseless vandalism, at least a dozen Edhi ambulances were recently attacked and burnt by anti-US protesters. Such zealots must realize that Edhi’s boundless compassion for the suffering and his tireless work on their behalf is also a form of jihad.

jay, something you might be interested in:

from today’s dawn:

Death for ‘honour killing’

LAHORE, Oct.20: The Lahore High Court on Friday awarded death penalty in a double-murder case to a man, who was sentenced to seven years jail only by a sessions court for being an ‘honour killer’…..