In Search of the Moderate Muslim

Re: Eklayva

best to stay out of America`s redneck belt...stick to the Northeast or California and you`ll be fine...the rest of the country is good for producing food, but that`s about it...

tahmedsaab:

``And the truth is that worshippers in a church were killed in Pakistan. Everything else is speculation. And speculation simply detracts from the crime itself. We should be less concerned about Pakistan`s image and more concerned about the realities in Pakistan themselves``

that needed to be reproduced..the christian population is very scared..or atleast the ones i am acquainted with...some of them are passing it off with a `ohooo..bad bad...you guys are killing us now..kitnee buree baat hae..sab kuRantae mar gaye tau` etc etc...but every single one of them is freaked as almost all of them go to church regularly and have at one time or the other been threatened..i personally felt so ashamed the day after the attack when i met these friends..its so horrid, even the idiots themselves must have knows what they were doing would have them burn in the darkest corners of hell till eternity

RSaxena # 334

Could it be that I have travelled over a wider geographical area in the U.S., not just in the East Coast but also the Mid Eastern States and the South? Saxena, the New York / New Jersey area as well as a great deal of the West Coast has been pretty much colonized by Desis. That is not the case with a great many other places in the U.S. Additionally, some areas have recently seen an influx of South Asians, mostly Indians, on H1 visas. In these areas too things are changing positively.

More History as taught to the elites of Pakistan

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/dmag/dmag13.htm

The Bihar carnage of 1946

By Syed Raziuddin Sher

In the last week of October and the first week of November, 1946, there erupted horrendous communal riots in Bihar, encompassing primarily the districts of Mongair, Patna, Gaya and Arah. The riots were one sided in which mobs of Hindus - armed with wooden rods, spears and daggers - wantonly attacked the localities where Muslims inhabited in insignificant concentrations, and where they could attack without the fear of being interrupted by police forces.

The resistance of the Muslims persisted till the last bullet was fired from the rare gun or two, owned by some zamindar of the settlement under attack. And then ensued the brutal killings of the fear-stricken Muslims. No one was spared - babies, young, old and sick were all slaughtered. Infants were snatched from their mother`s arms and killed in front of them. Many Muslims females, in order to save themselves from being defiled by Hindus, opted to drown in the wells or hang themselves with their own dupatta. Many wells in each village were filled with the bodies of the slain Muslims, thrown there by the attackers, and the rest of the dead lay scattered where they had fallen trying to defend themselves. The massacre was followed with pillage of the villages.

The butchery of the Muslims continued for nearly two weeks. Among the villages that were made the target of the attack, Tilhara, in the subdivision of Bihar Sharif, was one. The 119 Muslims households there consisted of those of cultivators and land holders. The Hindu mob, armed with sticks and spears, laid siege of the village on November 3, 1946. During the siege, a large number of the Muslim inhabitants flocked in the two largest houses, situated close to each other. On the roof of the larger house, Zafar Imam, a zamindar in his late thirties, positioned himself with a loaded double-barrel gun. The very sight of the gun made the Hindu attackers somewhat fearful and initially kept them at bay. The mob then turned towards other houses and attacked those that could not offer much resistance.

By the third day of the siege, the meagre stock of the cartridges ran out and most of the strong Muslim men were killed. There now ensued a ghastly massacre of the Muslims.

On the morning of November 5, 1946, the 10th of Zil-Hajj according to the Islamic calender, when Muslims all over the world were fulfilling the Sunnat of Prophet Ibrahim and offering the sacrifice of an animal, the Muslims of Tilhara were themselves being slaughtered in the final frenzy the Hindus` attack.There were very few survivors - just a few wounded ones who were left for dead by the attackers, and some who had fainted, at the sight of the massacre of their near and dear ones, and were covered under the pile of dead bodies.

During the attack, the in-charge of nearby police station, remained knowingly unconcerned about the violence that was taking place within his jurisdiction. His prejudicial mind restrained him from taking action against the Hindu mob. The bureaucratic machinery under the Bihar provincial government had the knowledge of that attack, but did not resort to quick action which could have foiled the attack. Every top Congress leader of Bihar, including Rajendra Prasad who become the president of the independent India, had been swayed by the frenzy of prejudiced against the Muslims and did nothing to control the situation.

Among the other Muslim settlements and villages that were scared by this communal violence, Nager Nausa was one. The village was attacked by a large mob of Hindus and it remained under siege for a few days - largely because the Muslims there put up resistance by firing the few guns they possessed and by throwing bricks from the roofs of their houses, which had been collected in view of the imminent mob attack as a precautionary measure. No police personals of the nearby police station came to the rescue of the beleaguered village.

The stage had been reached when the ammunition of the Muslims had run out and they were about to be slaughtered by the attackers. Luckily, a party consisting of Pundit Jawaharlal Nehru, Sardar Abdur Rab Nishtar, accompanied by soldiers of the Frontier Force Regiment happened to pass through the area. They stopped near the attackers. Nehru descended from his official jeep and ordered the mob to disperse. When the mob did not pay heed to his command, he ordered the solders to fire on the mob. As a result of the firing, more than a dozen Hindu attackers fell dead, and fear-stricken, the mob dispersed.

At the time, Nehru was the prime minister of the newly-formed interim government of India and Sardar Abdur Rab Nishtar, representing All India Muslim League in the coalition interim government, was the minister of communication. They had rushed to Bihar from Delhi on hearing the news of the carnage. Though Nagar Nausa was saved by the timely intervention of Nehru, he earned the outrage of the Hindus of Bihari. Later on, when Nehru went to address the students of the Patna University as the prime minister of the interim government of India, the outraged Hindu students expressed their anger by rude hooting and by presenting him a garland of old shoes.

The most affected district of the frenzical carnage was the district of Mongair. The revenges and ghastly killings were perpetrated on many Muslims villages of that district, the account thereof are immensely heart-rending. The Hindus who constituted the attacking mob were folks of adjoining villages. They were absolutely illiterate tillers who knew nothing about the political trends of the country. Their minds were poisoned against the Muslims by the literate and semi-literate activists of the Congress and other Hindu fundamentalist political parties. They were incited for these attacks by the fiery speeches of the activists in the name of Hindu religion. They were made drunk with palm vine and the intoxicated were directed to attack the Muslim population of specified villages. They were made undismayed by the assurance of the non-intervention of the police force of the nearby stations. Most of the attacked villages had mixed population of Muslim and Hindus.

Among the Muslims killed, majority were elderly males, females and children because a good number of the young Muslims males of ordinary means were in Patna and Calcutta to earn a living. In some villages, where there was the likelihood of an attack, the Muslims, in order to save their lives, escaped to the nearby towns where there were considerable Muslim population. In the wake of communal riots, every town of the affected districts provided refugee to the destitute. Thus, problems arose of providing food and beddings to the refugees.

The carnage in Bihar was not an isolated or incidental instance of communal riot, but an organized massacre on a vast scale, encompassing some of the most cultured centres of the Muslims. The news of the killings of the Bihari Muslims were prominently printed on the front page of every Urdu and English newspaper, particularly those that belonged to Muslims. Such news sparked off not only serious consternation and apprehension in the minds of the Muslims of the other parts of India, but also generated compassion of the aggrieved Muslims of Bihar.

Mr M.A. Jinnah was then the leader of the Muslim League in the central assembly of India. He protested most vehemently in the assembly against the massacre of the Muslims of Bihar. The tentative figure of casualties of the Bihari Muslims was within the range of ten thousand to 30 thousand. Soon, Muslim leaders, all over India, began to denounce the killings of the Bihari Muslims and accused the Congress government of Bihar for displaying utter apathy and negligence in controlling the communal situation from turning bad to worst.

Muslims volunteers arrived first at Patna, then at the affected areas, to render their services in the relieve works. At that time, Muslim League was at the helm of the provincial government in United Bengal, by virtue of being the majority party in the elections of March 1946. The provincial chief minister was H.S. Suhrawardy, who most zealously managed to rush volunteers with enormous relief goods to Bihar. In addition to relief goods, guns and cartridges were smuggled to bolster the safety of the Muslims of Bihar. Among the places where relief goods were supplied, the town of Bihar Sharif was one where a large number of refugees had been accommodated at the Grunning Soghra Secondary School of the Muslims.

Political significance of the Bihar carnage:

The immediate significance was that it sounded death knell to the Gandhian concept of one-nation theory, expounded by the Congress party of India. The riots of Bihar proved conclusively that Muslims of India were a separate nation from that of the Hindus - the two-nation theory of Jinnah was vindicated as a reality.

The Bihar riots had a positive influence in winning the referendum that was help in July 1947. The general provincial elections of March 1946, held all over India had to decide whether the All India Muslim League was the sole representative organization of the Muslims of Subcontinent or not. The Congress claimed that they represented all the communities of India, including Muslims.

There were held, in October 1945, the elections of the central assembly in which the Muslim League won all the 30 seats reserved for Muslims. The elections of the provincial assemblies were held in March 1946, the Muslim League won all the Muslims seats of the provincial assembly except that of the N.W.F.P. There, out of the 50 Muslim seats, the League had won only 17 seats. In consequence, the Congress, by virtue of winning majority of the Muslim seats and of gaining cooperation of the Hindu members of the provincial assembly, had formed the provincial government.

Dr Khan Saheb, the brother of Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan, due to being the leader of the majority party Congress, had formed the provincial government and had obviously become the chief minister. His brother, Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan, remained the acknowledged leader of the provincial Congress party. He was well known as a staunch follower of Gandhi, so much so that he was generally called Frontier`s Gandhi.

He was a sincere man of strong principles and firm conviction. He had a strong hold in NWFP. However, he opposed the Muslim League and what the party stood for. But it was a strange fact that after a year of the elections of 1946, the political atmosphere in NWFP markedly changed in favour of the provincial Muslim League, resulting in winning the referendum. Due to this victory by the League, NWFP became part of Pakistan and not India.

There needs to be mentioned an incident that influenced Muslim League`s victory in the referendum of NWFP. Syed Imamuddin, of Bihar, was a very zealous Muslim Leaguer. Prior to the referendum in NWFP, he went there with a few friends. With him, he had taken the blood-stained dresses and shoes of the slain Muslims. He had collected these item by visiting the devastated villages. Fortunately for him, he and Khan Abdul Qayyum Khan, the leader of the minority party of the Muslim League in the assembly of NWFP, had become friends when they were studying in London.

Khan Abdul Qayyum Khan welcomed him and made arrangements for public meetings in different places of NWFP.

At the each meeting, Syed Imamuddin made fiery speeches, narrating the heart-rending accounts of the Bihar riots. When the blood-stained articles were displayed to the audience, sympathy for the martyred souls were evoked and an overall empathy for the Muslim League silently crept into the hearts of the Pakhtoons.

According to a couplet of Iqbal: The sacrifices of the thousands of slain Bihari Muslims heralded the emergence of a bright dawn, in the shape of Pakistan`s creation.

Reasons of the eruption of the riots:

In March 24, 1946 the British government sent the Cabinet Mission to India. It met the Indian leaders at Simla but their talks miserably failed. The Cabinet Mission then decided to put forward its own plan for the transfer of power.

The main features of the Cabinet Plan was the formation of a union of India, embracing both British India and states comprising three groups. The constitution of the union and the groups were to contain a provision whereby any province could, by majority vote of its legislative assembly, call for a reconsideration of the terms of the constitution after the initial period of 10 years` interval thereafter.

The Cabinet Mission plan had preserved the unity of India, which was the cherished goal of the Congress. The Muslim majority provinces could form their own groups and have their own government therein. In early June, a meeting of the Muslim League council was held. Mr Jinnah admitted that there could be no further solution of the minority problem than that presented in the plan. He told the council that it was the maximum he could secure. On June 16, 1946, the Muslims, through a resolution, accepted the plan. The Congress also accepted the plan on June 25, but had reservations about interpreting the grouping provision. On July 10, Nehru took over the presidentship of the Congress from Maulana Abul Kalam Azad and held a press conference in Bombay. He said emphatically that the Congress had agreed only to participate in the constitution assembly and regarded itself free to modify the Cabinet Plan.

To Mr Jinnah, Nehru`s statement was a complete repudiation of all the fundamentals of the Plan. It was to him a glaring example of Congress`s treachery. Mr Jinnah called a meeting of the Muslim League which passed a resolution on July 1946, revoking the League`s acceptance of the Cabinet Plan and asked its members to return the titles conferred by the British government.The Direct Action Day was set by the Muslim League to be August 16, 1946. It was observed, by and large, peacefully everywhere, however, communal riots erupted in Calcutta and about 5,000 people were left dead, as a result. The troubled areas were that of Noakhali and Tripura districts of Bengal. The killings were of the Bengali Hindus by the Bengali Muslims.

This episode was sensationally disseminated by the Hindu Press. The Hindu extremists exploiters were set in motion and they frantically inflamed the passions of the Hindus in Bihar. It was easy to incite the illiterate Hindus in rural Bihar, who were haris and tillers working for Muslim landlords. They were incited to wreak vengeance upon the Muslims, who were decedents of invaders and conquers and who were given the lands that had once belonged to Hindus by the Muslim kings. The Hindu extremists felt that it was now time to take back the usurped lands from them. In the wake of the virulent propaganda against Muslims, the Bihar province came under the grip of the horrifying communal riots which resulted in the massacre of thousands of Muslims.

Bad Cruise #332 From todays NYT ``General Musharraf has ordered compensation payments of 300,000 rupees, about $5,000, to be paid to the families of each of the victims, a large sum in a country where the per capita income is less than $300 a year.

The minister for minorities, S. K. Tressler, a retired army officer who is himself a Christian, has said that every church in the country will have stepped-up security henceforth. ``Special arrangements have been made and we hope that no repeat of this incident is going to be allowed,`` he said.``

This is an example of how to react to this tragedy. Thank God it is happening in real life.

Bad Cruise #332 ``One only hopes that the world media will project the truth only. ``

And the truth is that worshippers in a church were killed in Pakistan. Everything else is speculation. And speculation simply detracts from the crime itself. We should be less concerned about Pakistan`s image and more concerned about the realities in Pakistan themselves.

hamzad afaqui:

``1965 Al Hajj Malik al-Shabazz (Malcolm X) is assassinated in New York . He was one of the most outstanding Muslims in American history as well as a dedicated fighter for justice and equality for African Americans and other oppressed people.``

The timeline is excellent, well detailed and professionally done (doesnt make fun of Muslim groups on the ``fringe`` of Islam).

Muslims were undoubtedly In america long before Columbus. Many American places have Arabic names such as TALLAHASSE and Gibralter.

The Piri Reis Map is a bit of problem for modern day science. The Map looks sloppy yet it EXACTLY shows how the earth would look if one took a pic above the Arctic circle.

There is also a little known connection with the FREEMASONS and the ASSASSINS (stemming from the crusades when the Knights of the Templar befriended the assassins). More than 30% of American Presidents were freemasons, most of whom take their roots from the knights. Many Masonic ceremonies contain Muslim symbolism such the story of Hiram Abiff-who took the sword rather then give up the secrets of masonry.

Drew Ali has more masonic influences then Muslims ones, as does Fard Muhammed who was also a Mason with parents probably from PAKISTAN. He said blacks were from the Tribe of SHABBAZ (ie the Sufi-Lal Qulander)...Hence Malcolm`s name Malik Shabazz...

And the MMM should recieve a mention in this...

This is really what makes US great----not its armament,capital and foreign policy.

I hope all muslims in US would benefit by reading this,

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Islam in the United States -- A Tentative Ascent:

A Conversation with Yvonne Haddad

The Islamic presence in the United States has grown substantially over the past decade or two. With that expansion, however, have come self-assessments from within the Islamic-American community, and speculation on what the future holds. In this 1997 interview, with U.S. Society & Values editors William Peters and Michael J. Bandler, Yvonne Haddad, professor of Islamic history at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, considers the state of Muslims in America today.

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Q: The rise of Islam in the United States can be seen tangibly, every day, with the mosques that have been constructed in the nation`s urban areas. What is the current total?

Haddad: There are twelve hundred fifty mosques and Islamic centers.

Q: How many have been erected in the past ten years?

Haddad: Quite a few. I think that since 1984, the number has doubled.

Q: Then there are the intangibles -- the spirit and resolve and determination of that community to make a life for itself in the United States. But first, I thought we`d discuss the fact that Islam is not completely new to these shores. It didn`t spring up in the last 20 years.

Haddad: No, it did not. Some scholars are exploring the possibility that Muslims even preceded the Plymouth Plantation and the Virginia settlements. We have historical evidence that some of the Moors who were expelled from Spain somehow made their way to the islands of the Caribbean, and from there to the southern part of the United States. There`s a book on the Melungeons who came to North America prior to the 1600s. So there are some Muslims now who are looking at this history and seeing themselves as part of the founding of America. It`s sort of the Spanish version of the founding of America. We also know that a substantial number of the African Americans who were brought as slaves to the United States were Muslim, and were converted to Christianity. Some continued to practice Islam until the early part of this century. They lived on the outer banks of Georgia, on the periphery. So there are different ways of looking at the history. Generally speaking, we talk about steady emigration in the 1870s and 1880s when the Muslims from Lebanon and Syria came to the United States.

Q: Were these people able to live their lives as Muslims?

Haddad: They did continue their lives as Muslims. One of the things that is interesting about Islam is that it`s a portable religion. Any place can be a place of worship. It`s just that the establishment of community, and perpetuation of the faith is something that became prominent only at the beginning of the 1930s, during the Depression. We see a great deal of institutionalization among the immigrants. We ended up with about 52 mosques by the end of World War II. The United States, from the 1920s through the end of the Second World War, had no immigration to speak of. That`s when you had the homogenization of America. Then, in the 1960s, the doors opened again, leading to a massive new immigration from all over the world -- reminiscent of the waves of Eastern Europeans who came at the turn of the 20th century.

Q: You mentioned a figure of 52 mosques.

Haddad: Nineteen fifty two saw the creation of the Federation of Islamic Associations of the United States and Canada. Fifty-two mosques joined, with predominantly Lebanese and Syrian populations. There were a few groups of Muslims from the Balkans. Not included in that count was about a hundred African American mosques.

Q: So you`re talking about the growth from 150 to 1250 over less than a half-century.

Haddad: Right.

Q: In those early days, were there contacts between the different communities?

Haddad: Most of them were chain migration Muslims. They came out of the same villages in Lebanon. You had people who settled in North Dakota. Then, during the First World War, some were drafted and went to Europe and died, and others came back, but didn`t go back to North Dakota, where they had homesteaded, but went into the automobile factories in Detroit [Michigan], for example, or started businesses in Ohio.

Q: Was that the genesis of the strong Muslim presence in the Detroit area?

Haddad: It was the Ford Rouge Factory. It employed Muslims as well as African Americans from the South. The company paid five dollars a day, and took in anybody who could put up with the heat and horrible working conditions. Most of the people who came from the Middle East didn`t know any English. It was good pay.

Q: Were there any tensions with American society, based on religion?

Haddad: It was more racist than religious. There were two court cases at the time. The question was whether Arabs were considered fit citizens for the United States, because at that time citizenship was defined either by being Caucasian or Negroid, and the Arabs didn`t fit either profile.

Q: Let`s focus on the tremendous growth that has taken place in recent years. First, pinpoint the reasons for it.

Haddad: The most important factor is the change in the U.S. immigration laws around 1965, in which people were given visas based on their ability to contribute to society, rather than chain migration, which is through relatives. What you had after 1965 was the inflow of doctors and engineers -- the brain drain, the professional class -- Pakistanis and Bangladeshis and Arabs. That is what established Islam in a very solid way as a religion in America. They soon set up mosques, because they could not relate to the more assimilationist mosques that were established by the Federation of Islamic Associations. They thought of them as being too Americanized, too Christianized.

Q: So there was a very definite distinction between the old-line mosques and the new ones.

Haddad:Correct.

Q: What were the older ones like?

Haddad: First of all, the immigrants who came in that earlier wave were uneducated, mostly young single men. We even have records of people on a train going to Washington State, passing through Chicago. The group included more than 50 people who were between the ages of 9 and 11. It was child labor, headed for the mines or orchards, or the railroads. These kids didn`t even know where they came from. They didn`t know English. But eventually, they married Americans, settled, and tried to invent an identity, and developed a bare minimum of religion, with the food and music and marriage customs as culture.

Q: So the worship wasn`t the focal point. It was almost incidental.

Haddad: That`s right. These mosques were social clubs. But then, once they got married, they began to worry about bringing up children. We have a record of the Quincy [Massachusetts] mosque. Eleven families banded together and said, we need a mosque, a building, a place where we can gather so our children can grow up as Muslims and marry each other. They built the mosque. But, according to a survey, not one of the children, male or female, married Muslims. And all the marriages ended in divorce. It`s an incredible statistic.

Q: That`s the way it was. And obviously, change was needed.

Haddad: Right. When the post-1965 immigrants came, they looked at what had been going on, and decided that wasn`t what they wanted. The identity and consciousness of the new immigrants are different. They are the product of the nation- states that arose after the Second World War. They are educated. They have a national identity, whether as Pakistanis, Lebanese, or Syrians. They have been taught a particular history, a background, as well as the history of Islam, its culture and contribution to world civilization. So they came already formed with a particular perspective on life. They looked at the earlier immigrants who did not share their identity, and decided to establish their own institutions.

Q: So you`ve identified two distinctive schools. Then there is the black Muslim.

Haddad: Absolutely. From 1933 to 1975, they were growing up parallel and separate. The African American experience really developed in the industrial cities in the North as a reaction to racism. When African Americans left the Southern cotton fields at the beginning of the twentieth century, they expected the North would be more open, and it wasn`t. So gradually, Islam was rediscovered as an identity that would ground them in their original African identity -- since Africa had at least three Islamic kingdoms (Mali, Songhai and Ghana) that had made great contributions to African civilizations. African Americans started changing their names as a rejection of slave identity.

Q: Today, in the Islamic community, as one response to the voids of the past, there is a whole network of schools.

Haddad: There are over a hundred day schools, and over a thousand Sunday or weekend schools.

Q: And are there community organizations?

Haddad: Yes, besides the 1,250 mosques or Islamic centers, we have addresses for organizations, publishers, radio stations - - about 1,200 institutions.

Q: Is there a religious training program for leaders?

Haddad: There is a new one established this year near Herndon, Virginia. It is run by the International Institute of Islamic Thought. It gives an M.A. in Imamate Studies, preparing Imams for religious leadership, and an M.A. in Islamic Studies. It is going to serve as a seminary, to prepare leaders who have lived and are trained in America. Up to now the leadership has been imported. And that isn`t working too well.

Q: That must have created some stresses.

Haddad: At first it didn`t, but it did as the immigrants acclimatized to life in America. And the imported leaders couldn`t communicate with the children.

Q: I`m sure that even the youngsters who go to day schools are Americanized in many ways.

Haddad: They are. They live in two cultures, straddling them.

Q: Let`s talk about living in two cultures -- whether it`s even possible to do so. How successfully is it accomplished?

Haddad: It`s a very interesting question. I`ve been looking at it for some time. On one level, they`ve been able to do that very successfully. On another level, given the heightened Islamophobia in America, it`s become very uncomfortable. In one of the surveys we did in the 1980s, we asked people whether they believed America discriminated against Muslims. Of a sample of 365 people, 100 percent said yes. Then, when we asked whether any had personally experienced discrimination, none had. So it is in the air. The press contributes to the paranoia, and we cannot ignore it. Muslims feel comfortable, they`ve been invited to churches and synagogues, and have participated in interfaith dialogue. They know we`re not out to get them. And yet, they get up in the morning and read press reports about terrorists and they panic. There is this fear that at any moment, you`ll have a mob marching, trying to bomb a mosque. It has happened. There have been three or four bombings, perhaps two cases of arson, and some desecration of mosques, since 1989. No one has been killed, but these religious sites have been attacked and this is very frightening. Usually these incidents follow, or are linked to, some high-visibility terrorist act overseas.

Q: Certainly there has been, particularly among some of the strongly ecumenical Christian groups, a sense that they have a mission to reach out, and correct the errors of the past.

Haddad: Absolutely. The National Council of Churches has come out with statements about Christian relations with Muslims. At least eight denominations have come out in support of Christian and Muslim rights in Jerusalem. These same denominations have presented statements about how to treat our neighbors, how to get churches to reach out to the Muslim community.

Q: So there`s some counterbalance to the extreme actions.

Haddad: From some of the churches, yes. I agree. Many have taken a stand that neighbors should work with each other, that congregations should be taught how to relate with Muslims as Americans, as full citizens, as participants in building the future of America.

Q: Today, do you think a good Muslim can practice his or her religion in this country comfortably?

Haddad: Well, the practice of religion is to pray five times a day, to perform ablutions before the prayers, to fast the month of Ramadan, to give alms, to go on the hajj once in a lifetime. Fasting is not as easy as fasting in a Muslim country, where the workday is shortened.

Q: Yet the United States has religious leave and other laws.

Haddad: Well, they haven`t accommodated Muslims yet. The only place where this has been tested is in the prison system. African American Muslims have sued certain prison systems and have acquired the right, for example, to get halal food -- Islamically slaughtered food -- and the right, while fasting, to eat not at times designated by the prison authorities but at the times that the religion allows them to eat.

The five daily prayers happen to be concentrated in the afternoon and evening. You do the first one in the morning before you leave the house, and have a noon break for the second. You can postpone the mid-afternoon one in some cases. They don`t take that much time -- five to ten minutes. The only thing is that you need a clean space to be able to perform ablutions. That`s the toughest thing. Performing ablutions in a public bathroom, the lack of a private space, is hard.

Q: Because we`re considering Islam in America as an evolutionary situation, would you say that it is easier today for Muslims to effectively practice their religion in this country as opposed to 50 years ago?

Haddad: It`s easier in that there are Muslim mosques throughout the 50 states, and you can find a community where you can worship. When we first moved into Hartford [Connecticut] in 1970, we knew there was a Muslim person. He used to go to the Maronite church to seek community. At that time, there was no mosque. He died, and was buried in a Christian cemetery. Now there is a Muslim section of the cemetery. And Muslims are able to make arrangements with funeral homes that will allow them to wash the bodies according to Islamic practice and prescriptions and perform the prayers. So it is becoming easier for Muslims to live in the United States. It is more comfortable; there`s no question about it. They are organized better, and they are beginning to ask for their rights under American law.

Q: Let`s discuss the current state of political activism among Muslims in the United States today -- both in terms of specific causes and also some of the more broad-based kinds of issues where they might join with other groups.

Haddad: Political action is very hard to pinpoint, basically because it`s not well-organized. There`s no consensus on issues. Since the early 1970s, there have been several Arab- American political action groups -- the Arab-American Anti- Discrimination Committee, the National Association of Arab Americans -- but those included both Muslims and Christians. They came into existence after the Arab-Israeli War of 1967. These are not necessarily Islamic. They will work for Arab- American causes, like discrimination. For Muslims, at the moment, the cause is [U.S.] anti-terrorism legislation that attempts to create profiles. There is a fear that it could target Muslims and Arabs, or people who look like Arabs, when they go to an airport.

Q: But that`s not an Islamic religious issue.

Haddad: No. Then you have different groups, like the United Muslims of America, or the Muslim Alliance, that have defined themselves as political action groups, that try to invite candidates for office to speak to them. They have not been very successful, for a variety of reasons. We do have a record, for example, of public officials who returned Arab American Christian money because they said it was tainted.

Q: That was 10 or more years ago.

Haddad: Right. But it is a fear that they are being disenfranchised. This changed, though, with Jesse Jackson running for office. When he ran for president in 1988, there were 50 Arab Americans and Muslim Americans who were part of his delegation to the Democratic National Convention. And [candidate Michael] Dukakis acknowledged them when he addressed the assemblage as ``Christians, Jews and Muslims.`` President Reagan once met the Pope in Florida, and welcomed him in the name of Americans, their churches, synagogues and mosques. And President Clinton, several times, has sent congratulations at the time of Ramadan. And Mrs. Clinton invited Muslims for an Iftar dinner [the meal that breaks the Ramadan Fast] at the White House. So there is a feeling that people are beginning to notice Muslims as part of America.

During the last election, there was an effort to bring five Muslim political action committees together, trying to create a voting bloc. Knowing the Jewish vote was going to go for [President] Clinton, Muslims wondered, could they go for Dole? They couldn`t do that. About fifty percent voted for the Democratic party, and fifty for the Republicans. So they`re totally divided, and have independent opinions. Also, since they`re mostly recent immigrants, they have their own particular interests. The issue of Jerusalem is universal for all Muslims, regardless of where they`re from. But when you talk about Kashmir, for example, you`ll see that Indian and Pakistani Muslims will focus on that. You have the issue of the Moro revolution in the Philippines -- everybody will give some sort of lip service to it, but that`s about it. They all rallied in support the Muslims of Bosnia.

Q: You`ve been citing foreign policy issues, for the most part. Where do Muslims in the United States come down on critical domestic issues?

Haddad: Nowhere. They have not been able to organize or make an impact. First of all, the people running for office don`t want to be associated with Muslims. There`s this fear of being tarred. I agree that there are issues that they could share with other groups. One example of cooperation I can cite is the statement about abortion issued by the American Muslim Council in Washington in collaboration with the Catholic Bishop of Maryland.

Q: What was the substance of that?

Haddad: They were jointly against abortions, at the time of the United Nations Beijing Conference. It`s not that they were against women`s rights, but they felt that the way these rights were defined was against the religious teachings of Catholicism and Islam. There also was one court case where Muslims and Jews collaborated, that had to do with freedom of worship. Generally, though, even where there may be a confluence of interests, there is no cooperation.

Q: So what else can you say about this newly vibrant community?

Haddad: The thing is that it becomes more vibrant the more it feels persecuted. We ran a survey in the 1980s and found out that only five to ten percent of the community is interested in organized religion. Most people of Islamic background will have nothing to do with the mosques, even though they see themselves as Muslims and identify themselves as Muslims.

Q: Is that still true today?

Haddad: I think it gets higher in periods when you have a perception of persecution.

Q: What does Muslim education accomplish, in the day schools and weekend schools? Do these institutions expand and build a base?

Haddad: They hope it will. Some Christians attend these schools. They`re good schools, sometimes operating in ghetto areas. But there aren`t that many schools -- what is a hundred across the whole United States? And only a few go through high school. The Sunday schools are producing a very interesting group of students. I`m starting to get them in my college classes, and they all come knowing what Islam is, because they were raised in this consciousness. They`re a very interesting parallel to my Jewish students. They have a specific, particular knowledge but not necessarily grounded in the historical facts of Judaism or Islam, their thoughts and institutions. Sometimes I say something about Judaism, and my students jump. There was one student who would challenge me all the time. I told him to go check with his rabbi. He came back, and told me, ``the rabbi said you`re right.`` And the same happens with the Muslim students.

Q: How do you view things as they are going to evolve into the next century? Are you sanguine about the growth and enrichment of Islam in the United States?

Haddad: I believe that the issue of Islamophobia in some quarters of the United States is serious. One of the leaders told me, ``our biggest enemy in America would be tolerance.`` We know, for example, that in Chicago we had two or three mosques. Then the Salman Rushdie affair developed, bringing fears among the Muslim immigrants that their children would become Salman Rushdies, denying their faith and being integrated into the system -- in a sense adopting the language of the enemy of Islam and using it against Islam. So what happened was that more than 60 Sunday schools sprang up, and each one became a mosque. It was a wakeup call for the community. Then there was the World Trade Center bombing, and people began going to mosques. Others were hiding. They were claiming, `I`m not Pakistani -- I`m Hindu,` or `I`m not Egyptian -- I`m Greek,` just to get rid of the bias and the stereotype.

I really personally believe, having been doing research on the Islamic community for over twenty years, that if they felt comfortable, they would probably integrate much more easily and would have an easier life. But the last few years, since the fall of the Soviet empire, there are certain people who feel we need an enemy.

Muslims are eager to be part of this country. They don`t want to be discriminated against. They want their children to be able to live here. They would like Islam to be recognized as a positive force for justice and peace in the world.

Q: If there is more recognition of Islam, as you said, by various U.S. presidents, or greetings to Muslims during the Ramadan season that appear on local television stations, isn`t this an acknowledgment of some forward movement?

Haddad: I think that goes a long way towards making them feel at home in the United States. There are developments coming through. If you look at the mosque movement itself, you will see a great deal of Americanization within it. Remember that in most of the countries Muslims came from -- especially in the early parts of the century -- people did not go to the mosques. Now there is a mosque movement worldwide. And what we have in America is that women, too, are going. Female space has been created -- sometimes in the basement, sometimes in a separate room, sometimes side-by-side or in the back or on a higher level from the men. Basically, we`re seeing the kind of innovations that are making the mosques American.

Q: If we try to sum up the Islamic community in the United States, putting the religion aside, how would you assess it?

Haddad: I think they will feel comfortable. Increasingly, they are learning how to operate within the system. Their children are American and they know it. They may know that they are also Pakistani, or Lebanese, or Syrian, or Palestinian, but at the same time, they are Americans, and they can operate better within the American system than they can in Pakistan, for instance. Some of them have never been to Pakistan -- it`s a place their parents talk about. And they know that that`s what they`re supposed to be, but they don`t know what it is. And I think it`s the coming generation that is going to define what Islam is going to be in America. If we look at the history of the development of religion in America, it would be parallel to churches. We`re beginning to have more pot-luck dinners. There is one mosque in New York with a woman president -- which is unheard of. She`s a medical doctor, of Pakistani extraction. So why not?

In a sense, then, the mosque is not going to be a transplant -- something that is foreign and brought here. It is going to be an indigenous experience of religiosity in America.



This site is produced and maintained by the U.S. Department of State`s Office of International Information Programs (usinfo.state.gov). Links to other Internet sites should not be construed as an endorsement of the views contained therein.

re: Bhardwaj # 331

Man, it`s difficult to know who you are and what you stand for. Sometimes you post virulently anti Hindu, anti India stuff and now you have posted an opinion piece by some defender of RSS.

Let me tell you why I do not and will not support RSS (and other such organizations), inspite of all the social work they do, and their attempts to ``reform Hinduism.`` When I refer to RSS, I refer to RSS`s overall philosophy and the general attitude of RSS followers. There are always significant exceptions.

1. RSS emphasizes and tries to maintain a wall between the followers of different religious faiths in India. They are our ``purifiers.`` Purifiers may have had some use thousands of years ago, but in today`s world, I consider religious purifiers downright misguided and dangerous. In particular, they consider Muslims to be dirty, and beat up on Islam as the source of all that is evil in Hinduism.

2. RSS consciously constructs an enemy image of Muslims. They use Indian history and the unequal rights available to Hindus in Pakistan as excuses to depict all Muslims as hostile to Hinduism. That is, they create a siege mentality among Hindus.

3. RSS wants does not view Indian culture as essentially a composite culture in which every community has left its own mark.

4. This may not be RSS doctrine but I have heard from more RSS members than one that Muslim men are lecherous, sexual perverts.

I do not contest that all Indians should feel confident about the loyalties of all other Indians, but I strongly object to the targetting of any specific communities. This is a debate that must be carried out at the national level, not by the religious spokespeople of one community against any other community.

If RSS turns into a purely social religious organization, stops painting all Muslims and Christians with broad unfavorable brushes, quits using Muslims or Christians as bugbears to unify Hindus by appealing to Hindus` base resentments and fears, and does not poke its nose into political affairs, it will have all my support.

I really wish more Indians could join hands with them to fight against the problem of illiteracy, the scourge of caste system, to empower women and provide relief work of all kinds. But unless RSS makes some fundamental changes in its overall philosophy and outlook, it remains out of bounds for me, and I hope for others as well.

dost-mittarji (#327):

[I have seen the number of sympathetic Indian posts to you increasing in number. Some of them are almost begging you to say something positive about what they hold dear and they will become your ``bhagat``.]

Are you sure? In that case, since you are planning a visit to Delhi will you keep an eye out for a nice plot where I can start my ashram? Would love to give them my aashirwad!

When you are in Dilli, do visit the ‘haat’ – it has food stalls from all the States, besides other things of course, and it is quite clean.



About “paan khaaye”…of course I knew you would like it; we have interacted on music. But I did not know the details about SD and Asha…I think ‘Teesri Kasam’ is one of the best examples of new-wave cinema, though Ray gets away with all the kudos. And Waheeda…you know my respect for Imran Khan went up a few notches when he said she was his ideal woman.

What is “vakhri”?

Stuka:

More paan songs?? How about “Yeh duniya, yeh mehfil, mere ‘paan’ ki nahin….” :) Okkkk, I know yeh sahee nahin hai, but aapko kuchch to milna chaahiye, and I could not think of any gems… but if you do like paan (and even if you don’t) try the magai meetha to acclimatize your palate, and then move on to Calcutta thoda meetha with katree supari, gulkand and just a dash of choona. And take my name. They don’t know me, lekin bolne mein kya harj hai?? Btw, Punjabis don’t have an ethnic variety of paan ;)

Regards,

Farzana

Truth (#311):

I did answer your question regarding Dr. Zakaria, but refrained from getting into a further discussion about a clarification of my clarification. A statement was made, and you will appreciate that the context could have been personal. Also, since it was a non-recorded informal chat, I can only let you reach your own conclusions. However, I did not rubbish him at any point. But what is on record is his offer to the Indian government to get Muslims to pay jiziya (protection tax), which I opposed vehemently. He is a man of great learning and it is easier to believe him.

All I can say is that if I had the ability to lie (an art form, indeed), I would have been in a better position than I am now.

Thinker (#322):

Thank you not only for reading the article, but going through a number of the posts – it will give you a good idea of just what I am talking about. As for your kind comments, you are not supposed to say all those things to me :) It goes against the grain here…

Now to the gist of your post…your country is also my country, and as I tell the NRI posters, more my country than yours! But minorityism anywhere in the world does come with many ‘problem areas’ and the worst by far is ignorance of the others. I am not surprised by your example of the US (though many on this Board will not agree). A friend who has lived there all his life (except for the two years after his birth) tells me about how he is seen as a ‘curiosity’ most times, and he feels frustrated that women respond to him precisely for this reason and therefore do not stay long enough. He, an educated lawyer in a huge firm, feels grateful when he is invited to ‘their’ parties. Whenever he mentioned these things to me, I took it lightly, till I visited and understood. I was a tourist, so my experiences were different. Amazingly, he also felt that he had an added problem because he was dark (a Tam-Brahm). This was when I discovered the ghettoes that people of various nationalities form as expatriates, however much they may deny it.

I thought that the only positive aspect of being a minority there is that the ‘Indian’ or ‘Pakistani’ or ‘Sri Lankan’ question wouldn’t be posed, except to `place` you, but now you tell me there is the ‘Hindu’ question. Have those questions been asked by people from Muslim countries (which I think is likely) or by Westerners? Just wondering…

Regards,

Farzana

-----

A digression: I hope from the posts you have been able to extricate the chaff from the wheat. To think that people want you to change your mind about me!! It is a pity that people cannot discuss and debate without resorting to name-calling. But I am happy to note that after my letter to the ‘blighters’, most have got the message. The one who hasn’t has just shown where he comes from and the fact is that even my ‘hate mailers’ have largely ignored him.

Re: Eklayva

``The legendary ignorance of Americans is worse than annoying.``

You seem to be dealing with rednecks or their marginally better cousins. Most of my colleagues are white Americans and I`ve never heard this type of garbage from them....difference is the quality of one`s education.

saminashah:

I think you meant me when you said Freethinker...I don`t know who he/she is.

I think the media and the admin. are definitely doing all they can for this not to blow over... with all the events happening, its not going to blow over too fast anyway, but its in the govt`s interest to do so...and I don`t entirely blame them...they have to do what they have to do...and if they kill some other poeple who don`t like the US while they`re at it, more power to them.

Don`t even start with work and social situations...I live about 20 blocks from Ground Zero...and I used to work in Liberty Plaza...forget social situations, its painful just walking around anywhere in the Financial District...

And just because your skin is a different color than the people around you, they somehow associate you with Sept 11th...its sad.

I don`t necessarily believe the Jewish Media Conspiracy, but I notice things here and there. If you ever watch FOX news, and compare it to any other news show, you can tell there`s some bias there...they say and print pretty inflammatory stuff very often...listen carefully, I guarantee you`ll notice it.

Same goes for the NY times and WSJ...its more subtle, but its there...I promise you.

Eklavya: Re: 329

I couldn`t agree more with everything you said.

It gets even worse after you start working...I was a student the past 4 years, and I got those questions...but in a collegiate environment, its still toned down...now I can feel animosity along with many of those questions...

Asif #323 you write ``when have i insulted anybody?`` I did not say that. This is what I said: ``This man (urstruly) routinely insults hindus, and he is a muslim in your view. And you have this to say.`` And what you had to say was consolation to brother urstruly against the barbarians who do not understand him. You may not be using his insulting way of referring to one group of posters on chowk who happen to be of a religion other than the one he thinks he subscribes to, but you are nevertheless condoning such vicious behavior. And that is not the same as using the insulting manner this man uses, but it is nevertheless just as bad.

Truth is what is believable.Some can take advantage of this weakness!

Christian Massacre



Updated on 2001-10-30 11:40:13



The horrific killing of the innocent Christians in the house of Lord during a Sunday service is the most heinous and condemnable act of terrorism, which no Muslim can even think of. Muslims and Christians have been living happily and cordially side by side ever since the inception of Pakistan. They have been participating in each others` religious functions and festivals quite actively and harmoniously.

Laudable role of our Christian brethren in the nation building activities - be it the politics or sports, armed forces or beauruecracy, trade commerce or industry, science or arts is second to none. They excel meritoriously in the fields of education, health care and hospitals. Infact most of the prime educational institutions and hospitals in the country owe their existence to the Christian missionaries. And let me add here also that not a single Muslim till date has been converted to Christianity by any of such great institutions. That alone speaks for their noble spirit of tolerance and respect for the Muslims` beliefs and faith. Having said that, let`s examine the real cause of this great tragedy. The very timing and nature of the crime smacks of foreign hidden hand to it. It is just not a sheer coincidence that it all happened during the visit of the German Chancellor to Pakistan. The enemy has very cleverly chosen an opportune time to get the maximum coverage of the incident and damage the image of Pakistan to project it as a terrorist state to the entire world. Just like the massacre of thirty six Sikhs in the Indian Held Kashmir at the time of President Clinton`s visit to India, for which the Indians unsuccessfully tried to blame the Kashmiri Freedom Fighters but later on it was established beyond any shadow of doubt that the murders were actually perpetrated by the Indian Army itself, the Bahawalpur mayhem has also been timed when the entire world media men are flocked into Pakistan.

They are bound to cover the German Chancellor`s visit in full, and what more better time could there be to guarantee the negative publicity for Pakistan. One of the German constitutional amendments allows political asylum to any one seeking it. Essentially it was incorporated to help the East German defectees but for obvious reasons application of such an amendment could not be kept confined to only one country. Nationals of most third world countries - Turkish, Iranians, Pakistanis, Indians and others made the best use of it by feigning and faking political victimization in their respective countries. Quite a few Christians from Pakistan also made use of this back door method in search of better economic prospects, particularly after a court in Sheikhupura, quite some time back, had acquitted two Christians accused of blasphemy and the German government itself had offered them the asylum - thanks to Human Rights Commission and others like it. As such the Christian episode is sort of known to the German people and hence a ready and attentive audience for the anti Muslim terrorist propaganda.

One only hopes that the world media will project the truth only. Sincerely,

Farzana Nov-3-01 4:52:39 EST Reply #: 322

Thinker

Farzana,

Do you think Hindutva is anti secularism,?

Why you are against RSS & Shiv SEna which are patriotic .

These are the main complaint of Patriotic Hindu ,about anti nationalism of Muslims in India & there extra territorial loyalties.

Why do you think ,Muslims should consider themselves Indianfirst & anything else after that ?

To sum up, is the RSS fascist? The question is itself loaded. Once a group has been smeared with the label it is very difficult and very time consuming to challenge the label. Any argument to show that the smear is false is countered with one more little detail drawn from one other little source that is supposed to show why indeed the label is correct or apt. It is foolhardy therefore, as some of the RSS leaders told me, to challenge their opponents. The RSS has invited the likes of N. Ram, Khushwant Singh, Kuldip Nayar, and others to come talk with them, and come debate issues. The RSS is not shy of communicating with its opponents. What it has realized, however, is that these are bad faith interlocutors. The likes of Ram, Khushwant Singh, and Kuldip Nayar are amongst the most chameleon-like politicos of India, and most probably the least in touch with the ordinary citizen (as Victor Banerjee eloquently points out).

But is there nothing wrong with the RSS? I did not say so. In fact, in one of my earlier pieces for Sulekha I pointed out that the Hindutva agenda of the parivar is flawed pragmatically and politically.

To say that ``Sanatana Dharma`` is Indian, and that it should be the only philosophical guide for India`s destiny will simply have no takers amongst a variety of Indians -- Muslims, Christians, Dalits, modern-day secularists, and postmodernist poseurs. To say that Sanatana Dharma is the most postmodern of postmodernisms (as I have said in another piece on Sulekha) will itself bring forth a barrage of vitriol from the usual suspects. To say that the Supreme Court weighed in on the concept of Hindutva and proclaimed that ``Considering the terms Hinduism or Hindutva per se as depicting hostility, enmity or intolerance towards other religious faiths or professing communalism, proceeds from an improper appreciation and perception of the true meaning of these expressions emerging from detailed discussion in earlier authorities of the Court``(22) does not make a whit of a difference as can be seen from the number of books and articles condemning the court verdict(23).

Pragmatically therefore, it is best for the RSS to

simply say that Sanatana Dharma embodies the best in human thought and aspirations, and leave it at that. To demand that Muslims or Christians should revere Rama or think of India as their pitrubhoomi and punyabhoomi is both foolhardy and stupid (Some of the RSS leaders that I met said that they are not demanding anything but rather suggesting that the minorities consider these as good faith proposals, and noting that Hindu political as well as religious leaders have constantly invoked the names of Allah and Jesus along with a Rama or a Narayana).

There are enough laws on the books to convict a person who indulges in anti-national activities. None of those laws demand that ``minorities`` subscribe to any particular religious, political, or social ideology.

All that one can demand from Indian citizens is what the U.S. demands of its citizens: that they will uphold the Constitution of the United States, that they don`t owe allegiance to any foreign power or potentate, and that they be ready to take up arms on behalf of the country. Yes,

if the RSS finds Muslim leaders calling for allegiance to Khilafat I suggest that they take those leaders to court.

If the RSS finds leaders of SIMI (``Students Islamic Movement of India``. Interesting acronym, isn`t it?!) saying that Kashmir is not an integral part of India(24), take them to court.

Be vigilant about anti-national activities of any Indian citizen or group. Demand an uniform civil law. Demand that Article 370 be scrapped. Demand that the billions that the government spends on sending millions of Indian Muslims to the Haj be scrapped. All those activities are both legal and pragmatic, and that is as much as one can do and propose. Till the RSS and its affiliates realize this, and that their approach to Hindutva is blinkered and totally ineffective they will continue to lend themselves as ``whipping boys`` for the perpetual malcontents in India. Not only that, but their good work, in times of crises, and every day will be ignored.

Postscript: For those who think that the RSS and its affiliates are the ones creating needless conflict in India, and that they are out to marginalize or demonize the ``minorities``, here is something for you to chew on: