In Search of the Moderate Muslim

urstruly #153

...chicanery ! bin laden`s disciples try to confuse us with convoluted silly arguments while they plot their next move ....and shame on us if we fall for it - again

pakiessei #98 ``We, the christians of Pakistan, fully condemn the terrorist attack carried out against our brethren, and we hold India responsible for this heinous attack.``

Unless you have proof, you are jumping to conclusions. The thing to do is take protective measures for the future and to find the perpetrators and bring them to justice. Thus, e.g. I understand there was a policeman on duty protecting the church but he too was killed by the terrorists. This means there ought to be policemen, and they should be properly armed and ready to prevent a similar attack again. And perhaps a donation drive could be started for the family members of those victims who may suffer economic hardship due to the attack.

Just holding India responsible isnt going to do it.

Ras Siddiqui #116 Thanks for posting the Janoon interview. I am so glad that people in Pakistan have the courage to stand up for what is right. And bravo Salman Ahmad for speaking out clearly against the barbarism of 9/11.

I am not sure though if the concert took place on October 9 as planned. Do you or anyone else on chowk know anything about this concert?

Ten thousand turn out to mourn 17 Christians slain on Sunday.

WorldNews.com, Mon 29 Oct 2001

Memorial services are taking place in Pakistan for 17 Christians and a guard who were killed on Sunday after unidentified gunmen burst into a church and opened fire on worshippers. Huge crowds gathered all morning in the church compound.

Memorial services are taking place in Pakistan for 17 Christians and a guard who were killed on Sunday after unidentified gunmen burst into a church and opened fire on worshippers.

About 2000 grieving friends and relatives yesterday gathered outside St Dominic`s Catholic Church in Behawalpur, a city in Pakistan`s southern Punjam province.

Huge crowds gathered all morning in the church compound to mourn the dead.

They included local bishops along with Christians and Muslims from Behawalpur and surrounding areas.`` (www.pakistandaily.com)

This is largest number of Christians ever killed in Pakistan. Contrary to popular belief, Christians and Hindus are very rarely targeted in attacks like this, in Pakistan. Such attacks are usually between Shias and Sunnis.

Urstruly #153
Cutting off hands of thieves and stoning adulteresses to death is local culture, Arabic culture or pure fundamental Islam?

Shammi # 134

Sometimes rationalists like yourself make me envious of their rational skills:

You say:

``I read your post, understood only some parts of it``.

And yet in the rest of your post you delivered your verdict.

Sadna 142

Are you asking me or telling me?

Ras Siddiqui

“And on another note the $OB`s responsible for

the killing of Christians in Bahawalpur, a Punjabi saying ``Taim, Taim Di Gal Hai``. Your

days are numbered in Pakistan”

….amen to that….

..speaking of pakistani christians, on a different, yet positive note…

from sunday’s dawn:

Anyone logging on to the international music homepage, mp3.com will find that Voice of Freedom (previously known as The Speech) has been selected as the “promo song” of the week.

Incorporating the words and original 1948 recording of Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah, Voice of Freedom carries a message directly relevant to our troubled world, post Sept. 11.

Beginning with the Quaid’s voice, the song has been sung by 13-year-old British Pakistani, Sarah Francis.

The song has become so popular around the world that, in three weeks alone, it has shot from 73,668 place to the 52 ranking in the pop and rock charts, just behind Madonna, currently at number 41. In the pop charts alone, Voice of Freedom currently stands at number 29, below Madonna at number 24.

There has been so much praise for the song that Sarah’s manager has already been approached with requests for live performances in Holland, Switzerland and in the USA. Sarah’s voice has already shocked the world by her 44 semi-tone range. This song expresses 32 semi-tones. The Guinness Book of World Records is already considering Sarah for two new world records. The song and the lyrics can be found on the net at www.mp3.com/sarah_francis

Rsaxena:

“But if you insist that I submit something, would you be kind enough to take over my pretzel stand for two days? That will give me the time to write an article for Chowk.”

…..tsk…tsk….no lame-o excuses, please ….

Urstruly,

I have no issues with the ideas you have laid out. If some Muslims find it easier to be better human beings by making the distinctions you suggest, all power to them. What people think they are doing isn`t half as important as what they actually do.

And that is what raises big questions in my mind. Are you sure the distinction you have made between distinction and separation will be maintained beyond a small group of people and over time? Will the groups you mentioned -Deobandis and Wahabis (I don`t treat them as bogeymen) - maintain that distinction? If they don`t then what will be the mechanism to differentiate between the Islamic and the non Islamic aspects of one`s life?

It seems to me, for example, that there are some significant gaps between your views and thamed321`s views; Asif`s and ylh`s views; scout`s and fatimah`s views; or zafar`s and Hobbyty`s views. Do you think their differences will go away if they read the Quran more often?

The fact that ``let`s-all-return-to-pristine-religion`` sort of fundamentalism is fueled by some of the relatively ``modernized`` members of a group is not unusual. You would expect that. For instance, I am not sure how you will categorize people like Sir Syed Ahmed, Rahmat Ali, Iqbal, and Jinnah, but they were all well-educated individuals. The same was true for Raja Rammohan Roy, Vivekananda, Aurobindo, and Vir Savarkar. Just like Islamic fundamentalism, Hindu fundamentalism draws a large part of its support and sustenance from expatriates.

``This is largest number of Christians ever killed in Pakistan. Contrary to popular belief, Christians and Hindus are very rarely targeted in attacks like this, in Pakistan. Such attacks are usually between Shias and Sunnis.``

In pakistan pillion riding is banned, the badies apparently come as pillions. They cannot afford a spare motorcycle. Most of the time the killing takes place in mosques/churches/temples, the badies are smart, and places of worship ensures no collateral damage, which is a total no no under jihadic protocol.

stuka 138:

Hello Mr. Bush,`` a heavily accented voice says.

``This is Santa Singh down in Chandigadh, Punjab. I am ringing to inform you that I am officially declaring war on you!``

``Well, Santa Singh,`` Bush replies, ``This indeed is important news! Tell me, how big is your army?``

``At this moment in time,`` says Santa Singh after a moments calculation, ``There is myself, my cousin Banta Singh, my next door neighbor Gurjinder and the entire Kabbadi team from the Village. That makes 8!``

Bush sighs and says, ``I must tell you Santa Singh that I have 1 million men in my army waiting to move on my word.``

``OK,`` says Santa Singh. ``I`ll have to ring you back!``

Sure enough, the next day Santa Singh calls back.

``Right Mr. Bush, the war is still on! We have managed to acquire some equipment!``

``What equipment would that be, Santa Singh?`` Bush asks.

``Well, we have 2 combine harvesters, a bulldozer and Gill`s tractor from the farm.``

Once more Bush sighs and says, ``I must tell you Santa Singh that I have 50,000 tanks, 2000 minelayers,10,000 armored cars and my army has

increased to 1 and a half million since we last spoke.``

``I`ll be dogged!`` says Santa Singh. ``I`ll have to ring you back!``

Sure enough, Santa Singh calls again the next day.

``Right Mr. Bush, the war is still on! We have managed to get ourselves airborne! We`ve gotten out old Govind`s crop sprayer with a couple of

rifles in the cockpit and the Hockey team has joined us as well!``

Once more Bush sighs and says ``I must tell you Santa Singh that I have 4000 bombers and 8000 high maneuverability attack planes and my

military installations are surrounded by laser guided surface to air missiles and since we last spoke, my army has increased to 2 million.``

``Oh cripes,`` says Santa Singh. ``I`ll have to ring you back.``

Santa Singh calls again the next day. ``Okay Mr.Bush, I am sorry to tell you that we have had to call off the war.``

``I`m very happy to hear that,`` says Bush. ``Why the sudden change of heart?``



``Well,`` says Santa Singh, ``We`ve all had a chat and to be sure, there`s no way we can cope with 2 million prisoners of war.``

harimou/shah,

thank you!

When hindu/muslim bigots join hands to deride me, it warms the cockles of my heart.

Pl keep up the good work; it makes my day!

Veeresh (#38):

My surname is Versey, so it causes greater confusion than Malik. As for Farzana, I manage the berry pulao at Parsi restaurants…I happen to like matthri and lassi…

[Farzana, seriously, call yourself Saraswati Muddaliar Ramalingam or something for six months, and see if it feels different?]

Aiyyo, no one would believe it. But in the best phillum tradition I did call myself Sunita and went to Pydhonie and, boy, it does feel different. All the smoke billowing out of razed structures and yet those darned Mussalmans insisted on giving me doodh ka sherbet with Rooh Afza.

[forget Behram Pada and Antop Hill for a while, Farzana, and come walk the inner

lanes of Dharavi and Kamatipura with me and tell me if your religion or mmatters?]

Walk with you there? I have spent months in these places. In Ka,mathipura as a trustee of a crèche working with children of commercial sex workers and in Dharavi at the tanneries when I was researching on child labour. My religion may not matter to them and their religion may not matter to each other, but the drummer boys and girls will use them for precisely that. You might think that sex and poverty are the great levelers, but the extent of regional divide here is to be seen to be believed.

macgupta (#37):

[Toleration is not a virtue, coexistence is; the enemies of coexistence need not be

tolerated. Tolerant societies have the problem of figuring out how to tolerate those who want to destroy the society. Coexistent societies do not face this paradox….I see Ms. Versey`s article demanding coexistence and not simply tolerance. ( The existing tolerance has a nasty condescension to it as well.)]

Arun, that is indeed what I am saying, the only problem is that I used the hammer instead of the chisel to drive home the point. But then I am not a sculptor creating a showpiece.

Jay (#42):

[There is a fine print detail, all the hijackers as far as it is known came from one religios background.. and you will get full marks, that 0.1 for guessing that religion. Let me give you a clue, leaders of that religion from kashmir refused to have any meeting with the indian goverment, while they insisted and secured a meeting with the miltary dictator of a neighbouring islamic country.]

Let me return the compliment – you too are such a simple soul. For, leaders from Kashmir are IN the government. If you are referring to the Hurriyat (thereby assuming they rule Kashmir), then there is a small error here: they did not refuse to meet the Indian government, our govt. refused to meet them, or be present at the tea party at the Pak High Commission where they met Prez Musharraf.

As for “politically correct” politicians insisting it was an act of terrorists, I do not understand whether you have a problem with political correctness in this context. Are you implying the politicians belonging to a certain religion who made these comments are merely being politically correct and not genuine?

Faruk (#50):

Maulana Azad was a liberal, but what did he get for it? He is still referred to as a “Muslim scholar” and was completely sidelined post-partition. And the latter-day interpreters of Islam, by making the Book an issue, seriously damage the ground realities. Which is why I cannot call Dr. Zakaria a liberal. That is the problem with anyone who seeks power of any kind. As you said, “About the Imam and Shabana. They are politicians looking for a constituency that’s it.” That should be it, but the spill-over effect is frightening.

[“ Why can Muslims not be political, social, ideological creatures in the country of their birth? “

When in the 54 yrs since independence has this right ever been challenged? When?]

Not on paper, but in the lives of some it is a constant struggle. Do you think that those who are perceived as having a ‘distinctly Islamic’ identity are not looked at with suspicion? How easy is it for their children to get into government schools, except perhaps those run by Muslim Trusts? And if you live in Mumbai, let me give you one more example. A new building is coming up in a nice locality. The owners of a well-known chain of department stores booked a few flats, paid the deposit to the builder. At some stage when they discovered that many of the residents were Muslim, they took the money back. And it was done blatantly, no other excuses offered. And the Muslims who will live there are well-to-do, educated and cosmopolitan (at least 3 doctors, who have Hindu relatives by marriage). We are talking 54 years after independence.

This therefore also acts as a threat to the cultural identity. To answer your query: “are you trying to say we have a different culture because of our faith”, unfortunately we become what we are perceived to be. And in small ways faith imbues one’s culture, even if one gives up the faith. Even if food constitutes a part of culture (for me it does!), then you will notice the disparities; people often do not touch water in the houses of people from certain communities. It happens, whether you and I like it or not.

And yes, thanks for the comments.

Mahesh (#60):

[I forgot to ask you a couple of questions in my previous posts]

I thought so :)

[1) Why do you think Hindus will only consider a Muslim liberal if he/she sports a bindi?]

I took this from a comment about how so-and-so is a liberal, unlike a Muslim, she even wears a bindi…I admit it was a flippant remark for me to use, for when I wear a bindi, they ask me to open an ashram! Ok, even this is flip…see, if you manage to adopt something different from the confines of what you are, you are seen as a rebel; the difference here is that liberalism has become the new establishment, entirely corruptible.

[2) Do you consider the concept of thinking all religions are equal is a cliche worthy of derision?]

I was making a dig at professional liberals. Personally, I believe all religions are equal – equally bad. (Though things like Scientology have their virtues; some call it Tom Cruise.)

Eklavya (#66):

[One thing the readers must have noticed about this author is that she writes passionately.]

Forgot my name?! I am trying to follow the IDEAL….to be honest, I even practise it. But when one is on a forum and emphasizing certain things, they do not always sound palatable.

PS: I am glad you mentioned Asgharali Engineer in another post. I admire the man immensely. Had interviewed him. It was published. Chowk has it, but for some reason they prefer using my opinion pieces. I want his voice to be heard here.

hamidm (#69):

[and that, ms. versey, is the danger in being a ``cultural`` muslim ......... there is only one kind of muslim and the rest, according to god and gabriel and urstruly, are either apostates or heretics or plain old infidels .......... take your pick and get ready to face the wrath of the most merciful and benevolent ..........]

Since god and Gabriel are not accessible at the moment, I shall have to depend on urstruly, who has called me various things, but I forget. However, I make sure that little things keep me in fine fettle, besides green tiles in the bathroom (it works – feels like Sita doing the clean-up job in the forests during her banwaas). And what do you know, the little shelf that carries tooth-paste etc has ‘786’ written on it and the sticker has refused to unpeel after all these years. I think there must be some superior power at work (reportedly the smuggler-turned-legit-foreign-goods seller) who has ensured that my stock of deodorants is never exhausted. Just for that I do feel like saying allah ka shuk’r hai.

PS: In India we rarely hear Allah Hafiz….but when an unannounced visitor goes over to a house where the family is eating their humble meal of dry kebabs and greasy roghan zosh, he/she is greeted with, “Bolo Bismillah”. And here the hand of god plays a wonderful trick. The apostate/heretics that we are, we plonk down and dig spoons into the holy mess. Allah ka shuk’r hai…

scout (#76):

[You`re a talented lady, don`t give any credence to the developmentally delayed who hurl personal insults to you on an anonymous board.]

Oh, that was sweet! And no, I do not give them credence, I merely give them an opportunity to further delay their development.

Layman (#100):

That was very generous. Life is indeed full of eye-openers. You mentioned there were several things you did not agree with. Would you like to share them?

Shirin Ahmed (#106):

When you are featured and you are a writer you become a ‘featured writer’ :) Sirf ek gilaa hai: “yaarab na woh samjhe hai, na samjhenge meri baat”…lagta hai “mujhko zubaan aur” ki talaash mein jaana padhega, doosra koi raasta nazar nahin aata!

Jagdeep (#112):

Since you started out on the right note (by agreeing with me!), I think I should address your later doubts.

[But as I read on I get the feeling that either you are totally confused or the whole article is an exercise to pour your heart out against one or two individuals.]

Not totally confused, but a bit. That is the state of the ideology – I think romair made a few interesting points about it in his initial posts. As for pouring my heart out against individuals – I had the choice of not naming people and indulging in innuendo, but that does not work for me. And they are the public face of what I am talking against. Since they want to represent a large section of the population, they are answerable to some of us.

Truth (#119):

[Farzana: Could you please clarify whether Rafiq Zakaria was classifying you as a sinner or whether he was observing that, under Sharia, you would be classified a sinner.]

Undoubtedly the latter. Now whether he believes the shariat himself or not is a different thing– if he doesn’t and he is quoting it, then it is far worse.

NotAMulklah (#120):

Excuse me, but I have yet to meet common Muslims who are trying to adhere to “7th century ideals of a far far away land”; some fools do, but not all are fools. And those who assume that such a thing happens in India are the greater fools.

[So how about a ``cliche``. Who are you?]

Will a “kafir Muslim” do? Or do you have copyright over it?

Regards,

Farzana

To the blighters…

If some of you think you are important enough in my life to shake me, make me or break me, you are mistaken. All your smart bombs are missing me by a few miles. There is indeed place for discourse and disagreement, but this one category has contributed zilch. Unlike you, I do not go on every board to drop turd if I have not been able to ingest the meal in the first place. If my harangue is tiresome, then what’s so refreshing about the interacts? The sexual jibes would not even work in a locker-room, but then it depends on your level of desperation. Ah, yes, there is a new pun on my name – and since this is the one remarkable thing this person has contributed to Chowk, I shall not rob him of his moment of glory. May I, in the new tradition being adopted on these boards, say I am glad I provoked you to write a couple of great posts? On a more serious note, I realise that some of you can conveniently throw around terms like ‘I am angry’, ‘I was pissed off’, ‘my frustrations’, but I am not permitted to vent the same anger and frustrations for what are valid issues according to me. I am writing about an important aspect of my country.

Then there are the regulars who not only have to visit every board of mine, but make references to me on other Boards as well. “The Farzana Versey School of Thought”, indeed. And after all this I am not supposed to feel narcissistic? Come now, if you had some sense you would have ignored me, but you don’t.

And for the one who talks about my sour grapes, well, considering I have problems with Advani, Ashok Singhal, Javed Akhtar, Imam Bukhari, why has this accusation not been made wrt to them? For a woman you are playing that same male game – a woman must be envious of another. I happen to admire many of them – feisty, famous and most important of all genuine. There is great potential for sour grapes here and I could start a winery. But not with Azmi’s help. For, her PRO needs to call me, I do not have to call her.

As for the one and only one who wants to sponsor my trip to Kabul, I am now ready. Please send me my ticket AND a permit (it is tough getting one of those, I believe) at the Chowk address. Waiting in anticipation…

And for those who have nothing to say, don’t. Really, you are not on camera or on test. And, please do not fire the gun from other people’s shoulders. It is silly to twist what dost-mittar, veeresh, eklavya have said to suit yourself. For they are not here to score points. I KNOW that. As for Tahmed, he simply said he did not understand. Besides, since his choice was between reading the article again and going out to ‘get a life’, I am sure he chose the latter. After all, you live only once whereas an article can always be surfed in cyber heaven or hell.

Solitude (#122):

Welcome back. I see you haven’t changed at all, and familiarity is always so comforting. I am a bit surprised though that people hibernate to warmer climes, so how is it that you have returned with your frozen ideas? Or do you suffer from the Oliver Twist dilemma that even if you were to ask for more the uncles and aunts Fagin of Chowk would deny you that broth and you would have to subsist by thawing cold cuts? Why am I not replying to the content of your post? Because you are not telling me anything that I do not already know.

I do hope that during your absence you were having fun. Does not seem so, going by your limited idea of enjoyment. If the “antidote” had worked, YOU would not be sounding so hysterical. Anyway, thanks for having arrived and registered your presence. You will find quite a few like you. Even if you imagine that being solitude you are a lone ranger fighting the battles of delusion (while creating your own), the rest are doing the same. So, you can guide the herd to the green green grass of Rome and all you Neros can fiddle as much as you want, crack up at your own orgiastic jokes and, in the celebratory mood, your comrades too might want to stuff some cake into you – provided of course the said portions it is designated for are not otherwise occupied.

Ooh, where are my manners? Thanks for the “civility” and your enviable ability to “co-exist”.

Regards,

Farzana