Here Are the Muslim Feminist Voices, Mr. Rushdie!

SaminaShah 343

Hello Samina:

It`s nice to be talking to you again. I do take your point about Art being a ``community``. By extension, artist, then are a class - a subset, component of the larger society - which is a contruct of socialization, interpersonal and group transactions based upon and refering to, rights and obligations. My series of posts were to invite discussion of the ``unrestrained self`` and of intellectual trends associated with it. I have been justing that ``restraint`` is the same as morality (``ought``) - and that restraint is also the basis for ``rights`` in society.

I am in agreement with you that we should not seek to silence voices with whom we or any other person disagrees or finds objectionable - which is not the same as challenging these views.

Yet, in my opinion, to better understand that we (individually and in groups) exercise ``rights` towards and upon each other - we must be conscious that rights are the same as obligations. If ``rights`` secure a freedom or privelage, the ``obligations`` ground such ``rights`` in responsibility towards the individual and the larger society.

Afterall, your objections to the individual(s) whom you refer to as 12 head - arise from the fact that you see a ``right`` (to freely air an opinion) not reciprocated in obligation (to respect your right to you opinion even if one does not agree it and so uncivil a manner as to be percieved as harassment)

There is a continuous tension between rights and obligations when the concept of ``rights`` is not understood - that is, when obligations are over looked. On the other hand, ``freedom`` is found in ``responsiibility`` is to be understood to mean the acknowledgement and practice of restraint uphold ``rights``. It is to this that I was referring to. In my earlier posts I have asked if Mr. Rushdie can have rights (obligations to)that he will not acknowledge other have. Art work that is by intention meant to offend - begs the question what is the purpose of art? And it is in this relation, I have sought to further the discusion around Aestheticism and other political movements associated with it, in our circle at Chowk.

Yes, some people may be offended, others not - does this means that artists have rights that other in society do not enjoy (is there such a thing as the right to offend? How about the right to be in ``bad taste``?) Are the class. artists, not bound by obligation (rights) towards the rest of us? Can an ``Ought`` be derived from an ``Is``?

Art for Art`s sake, as Mr. Dr. Poonawalla has called for, seems to me, to be a seemingly, entirely uncritical, unreasoned, acceptance of propositions to the effect of ``it is art that is sacred, not religion, it is the artist,not the prophet, who sees beyond, it is the artist,not the clergy who advise the moral course - If these be ``rights``, what are their obligations towards those who would see this as usurpation and a corruption of ``art``? ``Art for art`s sake``, to my way of thinking, is part of the trend of the unleashing of the ``self``, - that has gained strength over the last 250 years and now mercifully is dimishinging. Who ever decides, the underlying issue remains one of reason and the unrestrained self, of rights/obligations, and we return to the circle with the conclusion the ``restraint`` forms the basis of civility and that societal order, we call, morality.



2 asides - please do your part in ceasing to be confrontational with whoever is/are 12 head -

and to all Chowkies who appreciate Parahtahs - a product called ``Malaysian Parata`` can now be purchased at your favorite grocer - Incredibly good-How good? So good! Passindeh accompanied by an salad of sliced red onions, slided cucumber, cilantro and Thai basil, with a sprinkling of lime juice - Optional

re: Umer Murtaza # 394

Umer, emotions are easy to arouse and immaturity is difficult to control. That is why a majority of holy warriors are emotionally enslaved immature ``kids.``

Umer Murtuza #395,

a sincerest welcome back (whoever you may be).

poonawala #388,

Why is it such a bad thing for a journalist to be as positively nationalistic as Ras Siddiqui?

In the two years that I`ve been interacting here, I`ve never seen him use his nationalism to put others down. I think that`s a very nobel stance on a mudslinging forum such as this one, don`t you think?

Let me ask you a question. If an Indian journalist decides to tell the world about a great Indian band (like Junoon is for Pakistan), is he being unfairly nationalistic or just presenting a positive aspect of his country to the world?

Umer,

Bindrawala used ``The Golden Temple`` as his terrorist. The kunt hid behind religion kill and extort and had to be taken out by force. Indian Gov shouldn`t have waited as long as it did to take the kunt out....the longer youu give terrirsts the more people end up suffering.

re # 388

I am confident that doctor sahib being rather new to this forum does not quite realize the esteem in which Ras sahib is held by almost all of us here. In either event it is not healthy for the younger ones like us to be seeing such spats between otherwise respectable people.

Shima

Yes, you too have picked up on Ras Siddiqui`s lack of objectivity.

As a Medical man, I try to see things from a broader human perspective. I believe that journalists are supposed to do the same.

I am sure Ras Siddiqi is a talented man, but perhaps overly swayed by the the propoganda of his country. You are right, lets give Ras Siddiqi the benefit of the doubt and hope that his future posts are more catholic and less parochial.

Dr. Ali Akbar Poonawala.

re: umer

``One of the components of Islam, which I fiercely admire, is the need to seek justice and its sense of brother/sisterhood. Majority of my friends are non Muslims who I find screw around, get drunk or take drugs when a dilemma hits them.``

...i`d rather angry people get drunk and take drugs than fly planes into buildings and attempt to become shaheeds at shopping malls....

re: rage

``Yeah so that you can get them back when she dies ``

nah, your mother already gave me her diamonds ... i don`t need anymore

RE: Reply # 388 Poonawala

Dear Sir,
I have no problem debating any topic
on the intellectual front with anyone, but to do so please establish some credibility here on CHOWK first.
I am proud of my humanitarian projections that
transcend borders. I take pride in being of Pakistani Origin but do not deny that it was once
a part of the other and larger work of British handiwork called India. I am proud to be South Asian but I am not Indian even though I would much rather spend an evening chatting with a person from India then someone from the Middle East.
We Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshi`s can connect very easily, and I enjoy that very much
both here on CHOWK and in the United States in general. We share similar food (although I prefer
``our`` Pakistani style) and we share some commonality of languge.
``Indian Culture`` is not monolithic either. Everyone in South Asia has to have room to breathe intellectually. The same goes for Art Forms.
But when you write things like:

``Ras Siddiqui respresents an ugly nationalism grafted on to the world of art...he can only appreciate what emantes from his own country. The point is not whether Junoon is good or not (they are not, it is mediocre music that wont survive even another few years), the point is that it is sad to see a ``journalist`` so deeply engaged in unthinking nationalism.
Unfortunately, 50 years on, Pakistan is still seeking its soul, its rationale for existence. The division of India along religious lines has led to 50 years of tragedy for the Muslims of Pakistan and Bangladesh....the former nation is on the verge of economic and social collapse and the latter, is an international aid workers paradise. The human costs are terrible indeed.``

Forget about your mistaken generalizations about
my reasons for liking Junoon for now, but there is nothing wrong with a country seeking its soul.
I believe that India is doing the same and is currently dealing with numerous civil problems and Liberation Movements within itself. So please, no arrogance on Pakistan, the Two Nation Theory or Jinnah.
We intellectuals from South Asia need to develop more healthy avenues of discourse. We need to promote peace in South Asia and your comments do not help. We need to solve problems and not come out swinging against the reality of the TNT.

Rest later.

Ras Siddiqui

Farzana:

``Ahem, the idea to get you to laugh was a sort of challenge thrown my way...``

You`re last post was hilarious, in an innocent kinda way.

``And, yes, solicitous enquiries are being made about whether you are crossing swords with me or not.``

If i was crossing swords with anyone, there would be no inquiries, LOL.

``And, just wondering, has the relevant person been sent to Israel??``

You`re off by a few thousand miles, though the land IS known to house a few ``kaffirs.``

Oh and I`ve just rememebred...

Asalaam-u-alaikum Tahmed321 sahib. Dear sir, how do you do?

Umer Murtaza

PS...

A BIG SHOUT to Anny, Scout, Yasser Patrick M, Farangi_K, Urstruly, KRashid, Zahra, Zehra, Drs/Mrs Shirin Ahmed/ Fuzair/ Fairdinkum/ Ras/ Umair Khan/ err hmm, who else...oh yes, Farzana Versey, Shandana Minhas, Slinky or something, Shankar, Bilal Ahmad, Sadna or was it Sadhna, RSaxena, Asif N, how could I forget HamidM, SameerBJ err hmm, err...and everyone else who I don`t know but soon will.

(I apologise If I`ve missed out someone)

God, it`s been a mighty long time...

Umer Murtaza

Howdy y’all,

My dear Dr Khan, I would have loved to have added my input into the article but it’s a tad bit too late. Everything I wanted to say is already there.

Harpreet (howdy mate) spoke of the whinnies causing nothing but trouble. It’s sad but the mind of the youth is so malleable. This chap you spoke of is Omar Bakri and yes, he gets disability benefit or dole or something. I remember seeing him once in a Mosque speaking to young lads. I was there for the Maghrib prayer and decided to join the circle just to learn a thing or two. I was 14 or something, my mind was nascent; I quiet enjoyed whatever he had said then.

One of the components of Islam, which I fiercely admire, is the need to seek justice and its sense of brother/sisterhood. Majority of my friends are non Muslims who I find screw around, get drunk or take drugs when a dilemma hits them. A Muslim (though you wouldn’t think this if you saw the ones in universities) cannot afford those ‘luxuries.’ I also come into that category and have had to come face on with my problems. Over time I have found ways to channel my frustration into more positive/ less destructive pathways.

In a world when great injustice is being done upon the Muslim people, be it our governments, be it the outsiders, be it the people who are God’s supposed middlemen, A Muslim feels the rebellion sense to correct this. Never have I seem someone of another faith become so charged up. This force is at its purest when one is young. Unfortunately one is also stupid at young age and it proves to be a recipe for disaster.

The young are led into political parties, where their energy, so precious, is contaminated and wasted. They’re not evil, they’re just naïve.

If there’s one thing I could do, I would get each and everyone of them out of these political parties and ask them to walk their own personal journeys and come to their own conclusions.

You may probably understand parts of this. One of my Sikh mates told me of Pindravala and how he also targeted the young for the Khalistani movement etc and how damaging the whole scenario turned out for the Golden Temple (He says that one can still see the bullet marks on the gold) during Indhira Ghandi’s reign. I don’t know the full story though so feel free to educate me.

Take care

Umer Murtaza

Rsaxena,

Check this guy out. Once an Indian, always an Indian!

“if you must buy diamonds for women, buy em for your mother”

Yeah so that you can get them back when she dies or is accidentally burned by the in laws.

Farzana,

I am aware of this phenomena of ``Laugh, honey! Don`t you know how to take a joke?`` Some of this comes from interactors who are otherwise quite bright. Guess we can`t have everything; let em have their opinions...hopefully they`ll be able to cope when it comes right back them...or be a little more sensitized

regards