Here Are the Muslim Feminist Voices, Mr. Rushdie!

re: prude #112

i didn`t see any post from me addressed to you...what were you responding to?...lady, keep your fangs out of my business...

...and i didn`t give you permission to ask me questions, so don`t.

samina,

Words cannot (or to be more specific, SHOULD not) hurt. You are undoubtedly an intelligent person. Also, you believe in what you say--to the point where I will venture a guess; you are involved in activism for what you believe in.

No matter where you go in this world; you will find people who are offended by what you stand for. There will be people who will heckle you & call you all kinds of obscene names.

What did Christ, Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Gandhi have in common?!---they were all assassinated! The moral of the story is--that if a person is loved by millions, & is ``larger than life``; that person will be HATED by a few who want him/her dead! If it was theoritically possible to assassinate God, there would be a list of volunteers a mile long!

Fortunately, in cyberspace, its not possible for anyone to inflict PHYSICAL VIOLENCE on you. Therefore, its important to have at least some anonymity, when you come here.

It was a shame that Zahra left Chowk in disgust. Many of us, who benefitted from her input, now stand to lose. More importantly, I think she did herself a disservice by being run out by the 12 headed monster.

Ultimately, the 12 headed monster`s ``excuse`` is RIGHT--ie, if someone else behaves in a way thats offensive to me, why should`nt I be allowed to behave like a ``jerk``? Thats the point URstruly was trying to make when he was trashing Hinduism & Christianity. I must say he DOES have a point. I was surprised that he left in a huff because he could`nt stand how ``women on this forum were treated!``. Seems to me, though, Urstuly has cooled down a bit & making some comments from ``behind thre curtain``:).

Hey URstruly, come on back, yaar! This penis worshipper missed you:)

Holding the Editors of Chowk culpable is unfair to them. Its NOT possible to be a ``manners`` or a ``moral`` police--nobody has the wisdom of Solomon. What is ``moral`` for me, maybe highly ``immoral`` & ``shameless`` to someone else. So who gets to decide this very difficult question?

We are all adults here. Our self esteem & faith SHOULD NOT crumble when someone else insults us. It means we hold on to our ``truths`` so fiercely & sensitively that those truths itself become brittle when a detractor throws rotten eggs at them.

It would be a whole different ball game if we were children. Kids are impressionable & their values & self esteem is in the process of being moulded. So words WILL hurt them. Therefore, I firmly believe kids should not come to Chowk. Also, that is the responsibility of PARENTS--not Chowk editors (cos it isnt possible to figure out the true age of interactors).

The bottom line, saminaji, is that I`m sincerely hoping that you wont act like Zahra & leave Chowk. Most of us, who like your input, will be poorer without it. More importantly, you will be doing yourself a disservice if you leave in disgust.

If every activist gave up their cause at the first sight of a heckler, there would have been no Lincoln or MLK to enrich human destiny.

Peace

Fewer women on corporate boards: Survey







ONDON: The number of women serving on the boards of Britain`s top companies has fallen for the third year in a row, according to research released on Sunday.

Only 57 of the 100 top companies quoted on the London Stock Exchange currently have female directors, compared with 58 last year and 64 in 1999, according to a survey by the Center for Developing Women Business Leaders at Cranfield School of Management in central England.

Women hold just 2 per cent of executive and non-executive directorships on the boards of FTSE 100 companies - 75 places out of 1,166.

Among the 43 FTSE 100 with all-male boardrooms are BP - formerly British Petroleum - British American Tobacco and Rolls-Royce. Food and fashion retailer Marks & Spencer has the highest proportion of female board members - three of 12.

``British boardrooms are one of the last remaining no-go areas for women,`` said Solicitor General Harriet Harman.

``We lag far behind the US, where business recognizes the value of diversity and reflects on their boards the importance of women employees and women consumers. The boards of British business should be a meritocracy - not just `chairman`s chums`,`` she added.

The survey suggests a link between women in the boardroom and corporate success - 17 of the 20 top performing FTSE 100 firms had female directors, compared with only 10 of the bottom 20.

(

Italian envoy in Riyadh converts to Islam



RIYADH,November 26 (PNS):The Italian ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Torquato

Cardeilli, has converted to Islam, the Italian embassy here announced

Sunday.

http://www.paknews.org/main.php?id=4&date1=2001-11-26

Muslim Leaders Salute Will Smith Muslim leaders across America are saluting `Will Smith` [The Fresh

Prince] for embracing their religion after completing the Muhammad

Ali biopic. Smith was introduced to the religion while learning about

the legendary boxer`s life - Islam is Ali`s religion of choice.

Friends close to Smith claim the megastar is now embracing the

religion in his own life and is eager to learn more about it.

About conversion: http://us.imdb.com/WN?20011109#9

About his tv/music/movie career: http://us.imdb.com/Name?Smith,+Will

re: sigalph # 118

Precisely. One of the coolest comments was made an Afghani shopkeeper in Kabul after those Talib weirdos were routed from there - that people (men and women) should be free to keep their beards or to shave them off, without anyone else ramming that decision down their throats.

Aamir may not want to see beautiful women in advertisements, but I sure as hell do.

Hamzad,

``His Eminence Maulana Mohammed Abdul Aleem Siddiqui, al-Qaderi, the eminent Muslim divine``

How do you square such servile obeisance to human divinity with Islam`s basic message that all human beings are equal? Won`t it be wiser to use the word ``cleric`` in place of the more ambiguous ``divine?``

khamkhwa #117 wah! wah! Hajjan Fatimah aur Dallay Bapu aur Lalla Bhardwaj or Begum bijli aur...: ab tak yeh kayee sur or aik jism thhay! Aap naiN in ko alehda jism bhee day diyaa. Like an operation to separate Siamese twins, only much better. Khamkhwa sahib, you have performed a medical miracle!!

Once again, every Muslim`s convenient satan : Salman Rushdie is to blame. This time for ignoring the voices of the Muslim women! It is all his fault that Islam orders Muslim men to beat, abuse, rape, molest, imprison, veil and reduce their women to a subhuman state. Yes, forget the fact that it is the Mullahs who order the lashing of women who are found in the company of men. Forget the fact that it is the Mullahs who order the stoning of women in Afghan football stadiums. Forget the fact that it is the Muslim households who perform the honor killings of over 300 Muslim women who marched to protest against the veil. Forget the fact that it is our Pakistani Islamist outfits who shoot 12 year old girls in the legs for wearing jeans. No - we the brave women of Islam protest and yet we are ignored by Salman Rushdie!

Here is what Salman Rushdie said about the dissenting voices within Islam in the same NY Times article :

``But I wanted then to ask a question that is no less important now: Suppose we say that the ills of our societies are not primarily America`s fault, that we are to blame for our own failings? How would we understand them then? Might we not, by accepting our own responsibility for our problems, begin to learn to solve them for ourselves?

Many Muslims, as well as secularist analysts with roots in the Muslim world, are beginning to ask such questions now. In recent weeks Muslim voices have everywhere been raised against the obscurantist hijacking of their religion. Yesterday`s hotheads (among them Yusuf Islam, a k a Cat Stevens) are improbably repackaging themselves as today`s pussycats.

An Iraqi writer quotes an earlier Iraqi satirist: ``The disease that is in us, is from us.`` A British Muslim writes, ``Islam has become its own enemy.`` A Lebanese friend, returning from Beirut, tells me that in the aftermath of the attacks on Sept. 11, public criticism of Islamism has become much more outspoken. Many commentators have spoken of the need for a Reformation in the Muslim world.

I`m reminded of the way noncommunist socialists used to distance themselves from the tyrannical socialism of the Soviets; nevertheless, the first stirrings of this counterproject are of great significance. If Islam is to be reconciled with modernity, these voices must be encouraged until they swell into a roar. Many of them speak of another Islam, their personal, private faith.

The restoration of religion to the sphere of the personal, its depoliticization, is the nettle that all Muslim societies must grasp in order to become modern. The only aspect of modernity interesting to the terrorists is technology, which they see as a weapon that can be turned on its makers. If terrorism is to be defeated, the world of Islam must take on board the secularist-humanist principles on which the modern is based, and without which Muslim countries` freedom will remain a distant dream.``

The whole article was published on November 2, 2001 titled Yes, This Is About Islam By SALMAN RUSHDIE in the New York Times and can be obtained by doing a search at www.nytimes.com.

If you want the entire article you can email me also at ibn_al_rawandi @ hotmail . com (watch the spaces in the email address)

tAhmad--116

Prem----129

You quoted from my post:

[``His Eminence Maulana Mohammed Abdul Aleem Siddiqui, al-Qaderi, the eminent Muslim divine``]

Please note these are not my words.This was copied ditto from the 1935 write-up of the interview.I just cut & pasted it.

However I agree with you that such kind of veneration is as much uncalled for as todays` profanity for the elderly & the learned.

re: 12-head giving birth to 13th, khamawka

...wow, you have an incredible gift for pissing off even more people than i can....

Tahmed and Prem

You both a poitn in suggesting that all stand equal before God, in Islam. However, in the temporal sense, Islam is a organized religion and within most traditions, does accord titles for scholarship. ``his emminence``, referes only to the esteem in which the scholar is held.

Also, you are correct that Islam enjoins it`s adherents to establish a direct relationship with God, by reading His message in the Koran, and by developing faith in Him. This does not conflict with the fact that there exist rules of hermenutics. It is in this regard that the statement about personal interpretation as a path to hell, may be viewed as valid. Yet, this does not mean that we should not be mindful that such statements have also been used by conservative Ulema to restrict interpretation for personal or political gain or the perpetuation of interpretations without the benefit of evolving knowledge. Such restrictions have had the effect of turning what is in essence human understanding (Islamic knowledge)into being regarded as Islam itself. Islam and Islamic knowledge can by definition never be the same; Islam is Devine revelation, whereas Islamic knowledge is the human endeavor to seek to understand Revelation. Devine Revelation remains a constant (by definition) whereas human understanding of Devine Revelation is continuously evolving, as our presuppositions and the knowledge of our times, is evoling.

No salaries, no medicine, no food for patients, no heat for winter.

Shortages Hit Kabul Kids` Hospital

By MORT ROSENBLUM, AP Special Correspondent

KABUL, Afghanistan (news - web sites) (AP) - Dr. Mustafa Zmarai heaves a sigh when visitors to Indira Gandhi Hospital ask his worst problems. Slowly, he intones: no salaries, no medicine, no food for patients, no heat for winter.

``Let us say,`` he sums up, ``we have nothing.``

This is a critical condition for a 300-bed children`s hospital in a country shattered by 25 years of war, where polio and tuberculosis run rampant and even simple dysentery kills in large numbers.

The situation is bad enough in Kabul, which has 60 percent of the nation`s hospital beds. It is far worse in the rugged back country. Half of all Afghans have no access to any medical care at all.

Zmarai`s 70 doctors have handled their latest crisis: 40 children injured by American bombing before Taliban forces fled from Kabul. Seven died, but the others survived. Only Mohammed Salem, legless at age 10, is still in the hospital.

At Indira Gandhi, surgeons and sweepers alike earn the equivalent of $20 a month - in principle. No one has been paid since July.

Other doctors say this creates yet another problem. Desperate staff members sell scarce drugs, charge families for basic services and sneak out to do other jobs.

``How can you blame them at those levels of pay?`` asked Wilhelm Kemmer, a doctor with the German aid agency Hammer Forum who works at the hospital. ``Their first thought is the survival of their own families.``

Francois Calas, head of the French Doctors Without Borders (news - web sites) mission in Kabul, said such problems are endemic at most of the city`s 16 hospitals. ``We distribute our drugs and then find them in the bazaar,`` he said.

Calas and other foreign doctors say medical supplies and equipment are siphoned to the streets with mafia-like efficiency.

Although northern alliance authorities have delegated some doctors to look after health issues, there is still no functioning Ministry of Health, Calas added.

Even in normal times, Afghans frequent the myriad pharmacies in Kabul to buy whatever they can afford and think they need. Antibiotics are sold one by one, without instructions or expiration dates.

Long-term treatment of infectious diseases, such as tuberculosis, is a particular problem, Kemmer said.

``You can give someone antibiotics, but you can`t know if they take them,`` he said. ``Many sell them. It`s obvious. They decide between feeding their family today or treating some vague disease they don`t understand.``

Aid workers say the fragile hospital system all but collapsed when foreigners evacuated after the Sept. 11 terror attacks.

Some Afghan doctors stayed away from their hospital jobs to work in their own clinics. Sick people were afraid of going to hospitals for fear of the U.S. bombing campaign against the Taliban and Osama bin Laden (news - web sites)`s al-Qaida network, which is blamed for the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon (news - web sites).

Things are slowly coming back to normal - to a situation that doctors say is not nearly good enough.

Indira Gandhi Hospital, named for India`s assassinated prime minister, receives basic support from the Indian government, with help from Hammer Forum, Save the Children in the United States, the French agency Action Against Hunger and the International Red Cross.

Kemmer said the donor assistance helps doctors meet their most urgent needs. But, he added, little real improvement can be expected until better wages are paid to hard-pressed staff.

``We do what we can,`` Zmarai said. ``I can get by because I have a private practice when I am not here, but what about the others? When winter comes, it will get worse.``

At best, Indira Gandhi is a no-frills hospital. Its information office is a box of nailed-together pasteboard with no one in it. Green paint flakes off the walls. Visitors and patients roam aimlessly in the halls.

``Conditions are quite bad,`` acknowledged Sanjoy Shivpura, one of three Indians who along with Kemmer are the only foreigners on the staff.

At least the Taliban are gone, Zmarai said.

During their five years of rule, Taliban authorities prohibited men and women from working together. ``We had to do everything separately,`` Zmarai said. ``It made our work nearly impossible.``

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20011126/wl/attacks_critical_condition_2.html

Hamazad Afuqui or whatever:

I am shocked by your comments:



You say:

`These second or third generation APWAS who were `liberated` by Raana Liaquat Ali Khan (the christain who pursued her agenda to westernise the brains by baring the bodies).Now this High-Noon of the feminine vs feminazi variety at the Not-really-OK Corral(named Pakistan) is still continuing.`

My Answer:

Begum Raana Liaqat Ali Khan, Pakistan`s former First Lady and ex-Governor of one province, was one of the most enlightened and educated women, greatly admired by the Quaid-e-Azam as the model for young women everywhere. She was a brilliant woman and a Hindu if I am not mistaken. Kindly dont make stupid comments like that about people who have given so much to Pakistan. Please stop making stupid comments like these. Is there no end to Shamelessness of the fundamentalists like yourself? What was this agenda that she pursued?



You say:

`The other side was led by the respectable & serene,shareef & khandaani Mohtramaa Fatimah Jinnah---feminine,professional(dentist),clean character,graceful with dress & doppatta, sincere & equally adept at urdu,gujrati & english.`

My answer:

Ah.. how sad is this pitting Fatima Jinnah against Raana ? Fatima Jinnah was Khandani alright, just like Raana Liaqat Ali Khan was, and yes she was a professional, and of clean character (though thats none of anyone`s business) but I doubt that she spoke Urdu. Fatima Jinnah was Pakistan`s feminist.. and lets not make any mistakes about that.



You say:

`It is not a pleasant thought but sad to say that since then the ``secularist & humanist`` scum has been wreaking havoc in Pakistan but retains the mask of Islam over its face---just in case the tide turns.`

My Answer:

Maybe you have been living in some Pakistan where I havent.. but the `secularist humanist scum` has been sidelined by the fanatics and fundoos like yourself.. which has made Pakistan schizo ... you made our Poor old Pakistan, an `Islamic` republic and yet it is us, `the secularist scum` which is wreaking havoc in Pakistan?



You say:

`Such women just cannot move an inch without a goraa/goree support group.Most of such kind have a very first hand experience of being abused & rejected as a woman-----but wrongly accuse the eastern culture & men for it.They will soon see the ``fruits`` of westernism in their children & grand-children---but by then such stuff would be normal & ``everybody does it`` & ``we must move with the times``.`

My answer:

Inshallah they will see the fruits of westernism, when their children will become more humane and educated... so that Pakistan will progress and go on the road of progress. As for scum of your variety... all of you will be executed on the streets of Pakistan, and your beards cut off and thrown into the ganda naala of Lahore!

Please leave Pakistan alone!

-YLH

Tibor..

What is there in what Mr. Hamazad says which remotely resembles what I say? Or is it that you just want to paint me with the same brush?

Have some shame.

re aamir

``IF YOU WANT MY VIEW ,LIFE FOR WOMAN IN USA IS MUCH DIFFICULT THAN MIDDLE CLASS WOMAN IN Bangladesh,India or Pakistan``

I have seen many women in the long lines in front of American missions in those countries. Surprisingly, I haven`t seen too many poor, suffering, American women lining up to immigrate to the subcontinent.