Is Jehad Passe’?

IT seems that you have the illusions of Non-Muslims being your friends You have so much to say about Jihad well let me just quote a small verse from Quran. I dont expect to convince you or infact anyone else who has the illusions that adapting to someother code of living will change things:

``.....What reason could you have for not fighting in the Way of Allah - for those men, women and children who are oppressed and say, ``Our Lord, take us out of this city whose inhabitants are wrongdoers! Give us a protector from You! Give us a helper from You!``? (Surat an-Nisa: 75) ....``

Lissen I am not going to ask you or infact anyone else to leave Pakistan and go some where else since you have right of opinon too (unlike some replies who said politely and in quite rude manner to leave UK and go for Afghansiatn, who knows who has been to which places)...

Well you say that I live in a place of security and good life let me just give you a couple of examples how safe and secure this place is:

1. Just after Sept 11 (late sept) there was an Afgan taxi driver who was hit with a broken bottle in his head and that poor man is paralised from neck down (a colateral damage)this happened in Surrey Just outside the town of Woking....

2. With the level of muggings here, Lahore or infact Gadoonamazai looks like a heaven by any standard. (dont tell me what i do know about Pakistan I have lived in the two stated placed for around 14 years).

3. Lately in a town i live in on 24th Dec a girl around 15 years of age was raped by a group of 14 year old boys... the disgraceful act was captured on CCTV (this is no isolated incident)but no charges were made despite a case being filed etc

look these are not isolated events if someone thinks life is quite rosey here then think again these things happen here too and that too at an alarming rate.

about you asking/requiring an apology towards hindus and other non muslims dont you remember when Allah says in quran and that too quite categorically that Jews and Christian will never be your friends and well wishers (i will Inshallah get the correct and exact translation as well) so why shouldi treat them as I do a Muslim. They have to be treated as ordinary Humans and nothing more ...

If you think that Muslims in India are very happy with their current status well I am not sure if I can agree with you on this.. does the Hindu-Muslim riots after the Babari Mosque ring any bells to you??? oh and one more point just to elaborate, I had hired a driver back in Middle East while I was on a project there for navigation purpose, he happened to be from Hayderabad India. I asked him how is his life there and he gave a very honest answer, they were just a few words but let me quote them to you ``If I am living with Muslims I feel secure than in Hayderabad`` then I asked him why dont you move over to Pakistan and he said ``then my relatives will be persecuted as traitors`` now thats quite a motivation isent it.

``....My comments: In Afghanistan, people clearly rejoiced being freed from the evil rule of the taliban. If this is ``extremely wrong`` to you, I suggest you leave your cozy home in UK and go to Kabul and tell the Afghans that. I think you will find yourself in for some rough treatment...``

It seems to me that your thought process some how or the other is restricted to Afghanistan I am talking about Muslims throughout the world. Why is it thatyou fail to recognise that hundreds of innocent people died when US airforce leveled a hospital in Herat, the General appearing live in the press confrence said `` We appear to have hit an old folks home by mistake`` now you tell me how many old folks homes do you have in Pakistan it is certainly absured to think of them there in Afghanistan. How many of the deaths in afghanistan had gone unreported by world media I guess we will never know ...

Regarding the manner you contradicted the Hadith well I have nothing to say to you it seems that you have seen it out of perspective and I will hopefully get the complete source of the Hadith in the coming days Ishallah...

Lissen If Idol worshipers were so good towards islam and muslims why on earth did they persicute muslims with wars etc.?

I am not the kind of person who says kill all in the name of Religion but I would certainly stand for some one who has been targeted because he/she is a Muslim and wants to live in a muslim home land (if the majority wants to do so)if some one says why not move to a Muslim country then our whole struggle for Pakistan was flawed..

I donot like to get into arguments with you or anyone else since as saighph quoted a verse

`` for you is your religion and for me is mine``

and we will only find out who is right on the day of Judgment and on that day no one will have any excuse then.

Re OmarAkram (#68):

You state … “Ahmeadis are not Muslims thats my opinon since there concept of their leader is 180 degree against the concept and belief of Finality of the Prophet …”

The concept of finality of prophethood has no Quranic basis. It is based upon incorrect interpretation of “khattam-un-Nabiyeen” verse, while other Quranic verses hinting at coming of later messengers are ignored.

The concept of “finality of prophethood” is derived mainly from ahadith where the Prophet (pbuh) reportedly stated that he is the last prophet. The supporters of this concept ignore other ahadith where coming of other prophets is hinted at by the dear Prophet (pbuh) himself.

There has been much anti-Ahmadiyya propaganda conducted by the mullahs in Pakistan. This is confirmed once again by a Pakistani friend who recently moved to the USA with family (San Jose, in northern California) and is taking deep interest in Ahmadi-Islam. He is surprised to discover that Ahmadi-Muslims are nothing like what the mullah in Paksitan described.

As an Ahmadi-Muslim I would like to point out that Ahmadis believe in the kalima, in Quran as the final and perfect word of Allah, in the status of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) as “khattam-un-Nabiyeen”, in other prophets and scriptures, in angels, in the day of judgment, and in all other articles of faith. They pray like other Muslims, recite Quran, pay zakat, fast during Ramadan, offer Haj, and more.

Declaring Ahmadis as non-Muslims has no basis in Islam. It stems from the corrupt mullahs acting like “thaekaedars” of Islam, forcing their interpretation of Islam on others, while declaring as “kaffirs” those disagree with them.

Asad

sigalph,

bada gora saab, jaan ki amaan ho to kuch arz karooN?

Why do you insist on deporting any desi who does not agree with you 100%? Not just from the US but from Britain too!

If push comes to shove (e.g. during an orifice search at the airport), do you think your chowk posts will save you?

Humsab # 72

Great article. Can you please provide some link or reference to the article that tells us more about the author?

Regards.

OmarAkram #68 I second the point made by Sigalph to your post. In addition, here are a few comments:

You write ``First an apology of taking you as a NON-Muslim, I must say that your posting did sound as something from a HINDU. I am sorry for that and an unconditional appology for that brother.``

My comments: This sentence indicates a deep-seated bigotry against Hindus. This bigotry has no basis in the Quran. It is based, rather on the backwardness of our people. Please try to use your mind and realize the stupidity behind your assumption that all muslims are your brothers and sisters and all non-muslims are not. And have the decency to treat all people with respect and affection, not just muslims. The Quran itself comes down very strongly against the concept of the Chosen People, and emphasizes that there is nothing special in being a muslim - we will all be judged by our deeds. So, your apology should be directed to all people on chowk, and to God Himself, for drawing this nasty and stupid distinction between hindus and muslims.

You write ``Ahmeadis are not Muslims thats my opinon since there concept of their leader is 180 degree against the concept and belief of Finality of the Prophet, for me what Jesh-i-Mohammed has said against Sheia sect of Islam is extreemly idotic and stupid and completely against Islam I or infact anyone else I know follows.``

My comments: What business is it of yours what Ahmedis or Shias think?

You write ``What kind of Muslim are we that our brothers and sisters are being butchered in Palestine, Kashmire, but dont feel any pain for them ``

My comments: Why do you think that you feel the pain of the suffering muslims in Palestine and Kashmir more than others? The issue is: how do you bring peace to these people? You bring peace not by more violence but by working towards peace for everybody. Millions of muslims live peacefully in parts of India outside Kashmir. If the violence were to end in Kashmir tomorrow, there is no reason to believe that muslims in Kashmir would also find peace. Same for Palestine. And also remember that the poor people who are suffering are not just muslims but of all religions - pain and suffering are not the monopoly of the muslims.

You write ``Hadith that a muslims ummah is like a human body if there is trouble in any part the whole body feels it,... ``

My comments: Read the Quran. Where does it tell you that it is supplemented by Hadith? Where does it tell you that the Prophet is anything more than a Messenger of God? In fact, it clearly states the opposite.

You write ``What was done on Sept 11 in the name of Islam was wrong but what is done to us after that is extreemly wrong as well.``

My comments: In Afghanistan, people clearly rejoiced being freed from the evil rule of the taliban. If this is ``extremely wrong`` to you, I suggest you leave your cozy home in UK and go to Kabul and tell the Afghans that. I think you will find yourself in for some rough treatment.

You write ``when i see the Hindus here in UK i am quite sure that they dont have any good intentions towards us as a hindu towards a muslim.``

Comment: Be brave. Treat people as people, not as hindus and muslims. Overcome your prejudices. You will live a better life that way, and you will be living according to the Quranic instruction (completely ignored by so many of us) to be not just tolerant but affectionate to people of other faiths.

Yahuda,

Since you seem to have overlooked my last post...are you familliar with Havdallah? I just did a research paper that encorporated this ceremony...any thoughts?

Another interesting piece of unreported news; two firebombings in Staten Island during this monthes; one of an Arab owned grocery, the other of a Pakistani deli. No-one was hurt thankfully, but sure makes you think.

#57

I am guessing that you live in the U.S..

Beware the General across the border

Wilson John

Let us not underestimate Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf. After finding himself cornered within his country by jihadi Generals and militant mullahs and from outside by the rampaging forces of the Northern Alliance and the United States, Musharraf ran to Beijing for shelter. That`s what he did when he engineered the Kargil War. He was sitting pretty when his troops intruded into the Indian territory. This time around too, the Chinese welcomed him, shook hands with him, heard him out, put arms around his shoulders and told him not to worry. The Chinese are his good friends; they have so much at stake in Pakistan. So when India and the United States began making loud noises about terror groups and involvement of his country, Musharraf, with the Chinese at his side, decided to act tough and ordered freezing of bank accounts and assets of Lashkar-e-Toiba, told Lashkar chief Prof Hafiz Mohammad Sayeed to shut shop on his own. He made similar requests to Jaish-e-Mohammad chief Maulana Azhar Masood. Maybe the Americans would be willing to accept his actions as bona fide; we should not make that mistake. Musharraf is too clever a General to go on his knees and even if he feigns to do so, it is just another strategic retreat.

It is important to understand Musharraf the man to make sense of his quicksilver swings. He is a Mohajir from Azamgarh, Uttar Pradesh but had settled down in Gujranwala in Punjab. He got commissioned in the Pakistan Army in 1964 and was just one of the officers who waited for their promotion boards till General Zia-ul Haq spotted him. General Zia never hid his liking for devout officers and in Musharraf he found a pious Deobandi. Leaders of Jamaat-e-Islami, a fundamentalist political party, made it known to the General that they too preferred Musharraf. Musharraf proved to be a right choice for both of them. The first task he was assigned by General Zia was to train mujahideens recruited by various religious organisations to fight the Soviet troops in Afghanistan. It was during those days that Musharraf first met a Saudi civil engineer who was keen to help the cause of jihad with money and muscle. The Central Intelligence Agency had brought this contractor to construct bunkers for the mujahideens. The contractor, with whom Musharraf had close working relationship, is today known as the most wanted man in the world, Osama bin Laden. It was at this juncture that Musharraf developed two other key links that would stand him in good stead-the CIA and the narcotics syndicate operating in the North West Frontier Province.





The only reason why I am re-visiting the history of Musharraf is to understand the factors that shaped his psyche. For instance, his close ties with General Zia ul Haq. It was General Zia who planned Operation Topac, a long-term plan to dismember India through both covert and overt operations. Musharraf was part of this plan. One of the elements of Operation Topac was to annex the Siachen area that somehow remained unmarked when the Line of Control was being re-drawn after the 1971 war. For his Siachen plan, General Zia raised a Special Services Group headquartered at Khapalu in the Siachen area in 1987. Musharraf was then a Brigadier and was asked to command the unit. The same year, an acolyte eager to please his master, Brigadier Musharraf attacked an Indian post in Siachen that was promptly repulsed. Within a year, Brigadier Musharraf got another critical assignment from General Zia. This time, his mission was to suppress a revolt in Gilgit. The Shias, a majority community in the area, had risen in revolt against their continued neglect at the hands of the rulers in Islamabad. Musharraf sought out bin Laden for his mission. Laden was by then known to be an effective leader of mujahideens. It is said several hundred Shias were massacred in the operation. After the revolt was brutally suppressed, Musharraf, on the orders of Zia, began settling Punjabis and Pakhtoons in Gilgit and Baltistan to reduce the Kashmiri Shias to a minority. The Kashmiris who swear by Musharraf today would do well to read about his exploits in Gilgit and Baltistan.

One stellar quality in Musharraf, as the world by now must have realised, is rank opportunism. He is not the typical officer and a gentleman as the Britons trained their officers to be. He is an officer and a politician, always looking for the first opportunity to network with those who can propel him further. While in Gilgit and Baltistan, Musharraf became close to Lt.General Javed Nasir, who was then the Director General of the Inter Services Intelligence and Justice Mohmmad Rafique Tarar, both of whom played a key role in his becoming the Chief of Army Staff. Nasir was an adviser on intelligence matters to Prime Minister Nawaz Sharief and Tarar was the President. Another factor that linked the three together was their religious belief-they were Deobandis and had a good standing with fundamentalist parties and terrorist groups like Harkat ul Mujahideen, earlier known as Harkat ul Ansar. One of the splinter groups of Harkat is today known as Jaish-e-Mohmmad. Another reason for Sharief to choose Musharraf superceding two of his seniors, Lt.Gen. Ali Kuli Khan, the Chief of General Staff, and Lt. Gen. Khalid Nawaz, the Quarter Master General, was his hatred for Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM), a Mohajir rebel group. Musharraf, acting on the orders of Sharief, set up special courts to try MQM activists, Shias by caste, as terrorists. This anti-Shia operation helped Musharraf in more ways than one, the most crucial being the wide appreciation and support he got from the rabidly anti-Shia terrorist groups that were funded by the ISI via Jamaat-e-Islami, a religious fundamentalist party that has immense clout across the country.

It was therefore no surprise that first thing Musharraf did on throwing Sharief out (incidentally he was once again out of the country, this time he was teeing in Colombo) was to let the fundamentalists have a free run of the country, drawing support from them to stabilise his hold over Islamabad. He openly courted them, allowing them to open offices in respectable commercial and residential complexes; letting them recruit men for terrorist training, arming them with modern weapons to kill civilians and security men in Kashmir. Within two years, Musharraf is turning once again, this time against the very forces that created him and made him the Emperor. It is not exactly easy to trust him when he makes a sound and fury about banning terror groups operating in his country. He is a man with a thousand faces. A few months down the line, after he has lulled the Americans and the Western world into believing in his anti-terrorism charade, he is quite capable of bringing together the vanquished Al Qaida, the Taliban and the terror groups that pull his strings and create another invisible network of terror. Till then, I am sure he has already told Jaish and Lashkar leaders to lie low, change nomenclature, shift office and cooperate with him for achieving their common interest-inflict a thousand cuts on India. Beware. India needs to keep a close watch on this General who has a history of switching sides and using religion for military goals.

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http://www.telegraphindia.com/



TROOP BUILD-UP ON BANGLA BORDER



FROM OUR CORRESPONDENT



Sheikhpara (Murshidabad), Dec. 25:

Tension is rising along the border in the Raninagar police station area following a massive mobilisation by Bangladesh Rifles since last night.

The troops concentration began after a miscreant, who crossed over from Bangladesh, was shot dead by Border Security Force jawans yesterday. Residents fear a retaliation any moment.

Domkal sub-divisional police officer Ajay Thakur said Rapid Action Force and State Armed Police personnel have been deployed to assist the border troops.

BSF assistant commandant Rajinder Singh said a gang of miscreants from Rajshahi in Bangladesh had crossed over into Indian territory yesterday to smuggle sand from the chars of Padma at Harurdanga village under Raninagar police station yesterday. “The miscreants, who had come in four boats, were challenged by our patrol party. Our boys, who were in a small boat, were outnumbered by the Bangladeshi criminals who tried to snatch the boat,” Singh said. The BSF jawans then opened fire, killing one miscreant on the spot.

He was identified as Mehmuddin Sheikh, 26, of Rajshahi district. Another intruder, who is Sheikh’s brother, was arrested. Two others, who suffered injuries, managed to escape across the border to Bangladesh.

The administration is concerned over the mobilisation of forces along the border in Bangladesh after the incident, said Raninagar II block development officer Pankaj Mukherjee. “We are taking no chances. We have beefed up security along the border. Raids from the other side of the border have become a regular feature these days,” he added.

re omarakram

You live in the UK and promote jehad against the infidel! It is the same infidel, in the person of Her Majesty`s Geovernment, that provides you with safety and security. Why don`t you put your money where your mouth is and head over to conduct that jehad of nafs in some forlorn Islamic country like Maurtania or Niger?

I belive in the pluralist, secular, representative systems that civilization stands for. Always have. Anything else is anathema. Specially the stuff you guys espouse because it means, ultimately, a religious theocracy ruled by turbaned zealots. And we will resist that kind of cancer till the very end.

Yes, I too have a grandparent who, bless her soul, was a Kashmiri.So what? That hardly means that I have to support every terrorist in every corner of the world. What Muslims suffer today is brought upon themselves by the abject refusal of their leadership to play by the rules of the modern world.

Chechnya and Kashmir would have been free sometimes ago had they not imported the personnel and tactics of terrorists. And for Palestinians, well they perfected the tactics and definition of terrorism and hijacking. None of that means that innocent Palestinians should suffer but then it`s a tough world.

RE: sigalph235 and Tahmed

First an apology of taking you as a NON-Muslim, I must say that your posting did sound as something from a HINDU. I am sorry for that and an unconditional appology for that brother.

I am sorry that you think that no one knows what Allah will ask on the day of Judgment. You have graciously pointed out the fact that ``for you is your religion and mine for me`` it was also stated in Al-Kafiroon I did not say I know all the questions but I am as sure as hell that I do know what is expected of me as a muslim on that day (for instance question about Salat will be among the first)and NO ONE ON THAT DAY, CAN CLAIM THAT ``Allah I was ignorant of this and NO ONE WILL BE GIVEN A SECOND CHANCE``.

If Jehad both against oneself(the Nafs) and against the infedels is questinable, who will use any excuse to exterminate Islam regardless of what ever the sect you follow then what The companions of the Prophet did in the wars under the leadership of the Prophet, is that wrong too.....

Ahmeadis are not Muslims thats my opinon since there concept of their leader is 180 degree against the concept and belief of Finality of the Prophet, for me what Jesh-i-Mohammed has said against Sheia sect of Islam is extreemly idotic and stupid and completely against Islam I or infact anyone else I know follows.

``...Okay. Do you have Mullah Omar`s number so I can ask him for his intellectual take on the Qayamah? Seriously, I don`t think that Mullah Omar or you were there when Allah was revealing the mysteries of Qayamah. To think otherwise, ie to claim to decipher the mind of God, is blasphemy to say the least....``

What do you know who might be where on the day of Judgment (i dont like Mullah Omar my self) but that does not give me any right to pass any judgment about any muslim (I am sorry again and may Allah forgive me for taking you as an Infidel),

DID i say I am deciphering ``the mind`` of Allah. DOnt you know what is said in the Surrah Al-Waqiah (section 27 of Quran) or in fact AL-Qariah (the clamity section-30) does it still leaves a doubt in your mind what will happen to me or you that day. I am not sure if I can make it to Jannah with the present state of my ``account``, if you are sure that with your credentials or Aamal right now you will make it then best of luck to you.

What kind of Muslim are we that our brothers and sisters are being butchered in Palestine, Kashmire, but dont feel any pain for them since its a Hadith that a muslims ummah is like a human body if there is trouble in any part the whole body feels it,...

but it seems that some of us feel quite amused at the fact that some where in afghanistan or palestine or even kashmire a muslim bites the dust and we donot feel ANYTHING for them and are happy to put them under ``co-lateral damage`` and siding with the very people who are doing so.

What was done on Sept 11 in the name of Islam was wrong but what is done to us after that is extreemly wrong as well.

It seems to me that you and some others have misunderstood what I said. I am not saying that you are right or wrong but what my grandparents told me as what happened to them in Kashmir back in 40s and when i see the Hindus here in UK i am quite sure that they dont have any good intentions towards us as a hindu towards a muslim.

If they want to live in peace then they have all the right to but they should not opress my brothers and sisters in their land as well and let them have the right of decision as well.

tahmed 60

Tahmed, why are you using such archiac words like stool to describe pakistan as being suspended in between. The modern word is sh//it and pakistan is held between two piles of it, TNT and the military.

``Perhaps we should clear the baggage off the table. And try not to fall between two stools while doing so.

Baggage=Dispute over Kashmir.

Two stools=Means nothing. I just threw this in for literary affect. :-)

PS: On the two stools, I could have made up some BS about traditional Indian vs. Mideast culture, but I wont since that is not the issue - the issue is how do we adapt to the emerging Global Culture that is replacing traditional cultures anyway. And that completely turns the tables on the metaphor of the table. I better get off the table now.``

RE: #57

One of my rare greetings reserved for people like you. ``P--- off``.

Ras

re jaish-e-mohammad 57

Somebody give this dude a bourbon and coke. He obviously has nothing to do than read extensively the literature spewed by his arch-enemies, the SHias, from their caves at Qom. In a way it is good: the Sunni nuts declaring war on the Shia nuts and hopefully getting rid of each other; that leaves the rest of us to re-establish civilization in Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia etc.

But seriously, tahmed sahib is right: this is the mirror image of a mind full of hatred and eager for their version of jehad. Nonetheless, they will find it quite a non-starter now to start the grand jehad-e-Hind. India`s much admired patience is running out(it should have ten years ago) and she will strike back like an elephant aroused from slumber. Hopefully India can make an example for generations to come by hanging these culprits in straight line from Kashmir to Kanyakumari.

Jaish-e-Mohammad #57 In this post you call shias and ahmedis kafirs. If you understood the basic message of the Quran, you would know that in passing such judgement, you are arrogating for yourself a judgement that is reserved by God for Himself on the Judgement Day.

And dont disgrace our religion by starting with ``Bismillahi`r - Rahmani`r - Rahim ``. Coming from mischievous hate-filled subhumans like you, these words mean nothing.

Your previous post spewed venom against journalists and Musharaff. This post spews venom against other sects. If anyone wants to understand the mind of a terrorist, all he has to do is read your posts: the mind is empty of anything but hate.