Is Jehad Passe’?
Aqil Shah December 21, 2001
#33 Posted by OmarAkram on December 23, 2001 12:31:38 am
Its strage and a bit depressing to see all these ``so called muslims`` from Pakistan to express their conclusions etc about the very concept of Jehad in Islam. Like many others they have disillusion of their own religion.I am not going to explain the intrinsics of the concept of Jehad in Islam. The word has been abused by muslims so much that the confused generations are now turning against their own religion. They fail to realise that its not Allah or Islam who needs us instead its us who are desperatly in need of Allah and Islam!
Its fairly easy for some to say get over the problem in Kashmir but for me who comes from generations of displaced Muslims from the Indian Kashmir and what my grand parents told me its quite difficult to think even of accepting the Hindus can ever be our ``friends`` and dont tell me that I have no first hand experience I have been living all my life with some of them here in Europe and I for one know who true and sincere they are to me or towards Muslims.
One last thing dont forget Jehad will die out with the ``progressive`` or ``secular`` Pakistan or Islam. Islam and its tennants will and are protected by Allah and He will do so. and please do not forget if you did not have this piece of land called Pakistan then you might as well be working in some field or factory owned by a Hindu. so respect this country and stand for what it stands for and read more about ur religion... Allah will not ask you what you studied in Digital Sinal Processing class but rather what did u read in Numaz. Just give it a thought.
Its fairly easy for some to say get over the problem in Kashmir but for me who comes from generations of displaced Muslims from the Indian Kashmir and what my grand parents told me its quite difficult to think even of accepting the Hindus can ever be our ``friends`` and dont tell me that I have no first hand experience I have been living all my life with some of them here in Europe and I for one know who true and sincere they are to me or towards Muslims.
One last thing dont forget Jehad will die out with the ``progressive`` or ``secular`` Pakistan or Islam. Islam and its tennants will and are protected by Allah and He will do so. and please do not forget if you did not have this piece of land called Pakistan then you might as well be working in some field or factory owned by a Hindu. so respect this country and stand for what it stands for and read more about ur religion... Allah will not ask you what you studied in Digital Sinal Processing class but rather what did u read in Numaz. Just give it a thought.
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#34 Posted by Assad_K on December 23, 2001 2:37:21 am
Sometimes I wonder.. with their perspective of all the troubles of the subcontinent laid squaresly at the feet of Pakistan, writers like Aqil seem to automatically exonerate India and Indian policy of any of the misunderstanding and conflict, and make it seem that while Pakistan is suqarely anti-India, the same feeling is not reciprocated. Aqil, do you read Indian papers or 90% of Indian interactors on chowk at all? Heck, just going through the random selection in Yahoo News proves to be quite.. enlightening.
Of course, this post will immediately be read as rabid, unflinching support of jehadis, the Taleban, al-Qaeda and the wanton slaugher of civilians.
Of course, this post will immediately be read as rabid, unflinching support of jehadis, the Taleban, al-Qaeda and the wanton slaugher of civilians.
#35 Posted by semipreciousme on December 23, 2001 2:37:21 am
Romair
“I am waiting for the day when a Pakistani writes an article in which he blames himself, his ethnicity, his social views, his organization etc. for the faults of Pakistan”
….right on….it’s getting pretty tiring hearing people whining on and on about the faults of the gov’t without the least bit of cursory introspection….how many of us have actually tried to make things better ourselves?….taught someone to read?….not used rishwat/safarish to get smt done and to avoid the hassle?…picked litter off the street?…fed a street person?….volunteered at the local shelter, sos village etc?…small things, yes….but rome wasn’t built in one day…
#36 Posted by Mateen on December 23, 2001 2:43:12 am
Dear Mr. Aqil Shah,
Assalam o Alaekum.
[Are you the same PML(N)person from Peshawer? If so your article fits the personna you represent, and you may disregard the remaining portion of my inter-act!]
Believe in the `paradigm` shift because it is for real and in our national interest. Must we always be looking for the `hidden` reasons always? Why is `intent` always suspect?
I do understand your concern: after all it is not an everyday occurrence for Pakistani leaders to be considering their national interests first and foremost!
Regards.
Mateen
Assalam o Alaekum.
[Are you the same PML(N)person from Peshawer? If so your article fits the personna you represent, and you may disregard the remaining portion of my inter-act!]
Believe in the `paradigm` shift because it is for real and in our national interest. Must we always be looking for the `hidden` reasons always? Why is `intent` always suspect?
I do understand your concern: after all it is not an everyday occurrence for Pakistani leaders to be considering their national interests first and foremost!
Regards.
Mateen
#37 Posted by ferozk on December 23, 2001 10:09:35 am
Re: Shammi
The reason that I want the Indian evidence against Pakistan published is to discredit and disabuse the romantic notion of these organizations work, held within Pakistan, in Kashmir. It is not to convince me; if you would have read my articles on Chowk over the last two years, you would have realized what I believed in.
On the other hand, if you want war and are willing to wage a war on Pakistan, then please do not let the trival matter of an evidence bother you. Pakistan has a multitude of internal demons, which will have to tamed and Pakistan has no choice, but to deal with its problems with or without India making it difficult for Pakistan.
As to the Chinese Muslim extermists, it would be interesting to see, whether a link can be established between them and the Chinese Muslims. All Pakistan needs to do is establish a causal link and tackle the LeT and HuM for their connections in fermenting unrest in China. Most Pakistanis would accept that reasoning, because of their attitude that Pakistani-Chinese friendship needs to be preserved. Musharraf may opt to deal with these groups under the above mentioned pretext, because remember China also occupies Kashmir and if the intention of these groups is to liberate Kashmir, then the Chinese Kashmir could also be considered as a focus of their efforts and that implies creating unrest in Chinese occupied Kashmir.
Musharraf cannot tackle these groups directly without risking a popular opinion and he will try to deal with them via a political detour and minimize the popular reaction in Pakistan. Bush when he announced that these groups were being put on the terrorist list, mentioned they were ``stateless`` and undermining Musharraf`s government. Why did he say that? Pakistan`s cooperation in the anti-terror coalition did not end with Afghanistan and again, Bush has been reported as saying that he keeps a scorecard on each nation and how they are performing in this war against terror.
Pakistan will have no choice, but to act in this matter and it is not a question of if, but rather when. The only problem is that the ``when`` needs to be defined and marked out in a sense that it maintains Musharraf`s power in Pakistan, does not undermine the United States interests in the region and helps India in its struggles against these groups. It will be a delicate balancing act.
Yes, I would agree that the next round against terrorism will be Kashmir and Pakistan. It has to be, because the menace of terror has to be removed from Pakistan and the polarization of Pakistani politics along religious lines has to be ended. In my personal opinion, Musharraf will move against the LeT and HuM, because they pose a threat to his own stability. If on the other hand, he is removed from power then all bets are off as to who will replace him. Hence, he needs to move carefully in order to tackle these groups and the United States, in the short term, cannot push him too far.
The first step in the process, was the replacement of the ISI chief, but replacing the head of the ISI does not mean much untill the whole ISI is purged. That will take time, but it will be done, because now Musharraf has no option, but to continue taming the extermist tiger - he cannot afford to get down without finishing the job. The war against the extermists in Pakistan started, when Pakistan agreed to American demands in the aftermath of September 11, 2001. The rout of the Taliban demoralized the religious element in Pakistan and made them vunerable in the arena of public opinion for the first time. Most Pakistanis were shocked at the way the Taliban folded and seemed to prefer secular matters over religious ones - life over death.
The same thing needs to done and the Pakistanis shown the true nature of these organizations who are doing more damage to the Kashmiri right of self-determination than India and Pakistan combined.
I have no idea how this will all end; I can only hope for the best!
Ciao
The reason that I want the Indian evidence against Pakistan published is to discredit and disabuse the romantic notion of these organizations work, held within Pakistan, in Kashmir. It is not to convince me; if you would have read my articles on Chowk over the last two years, you would have realized what I believed in.
On the other hand, if you want war and are willing to wage a war on Pakistan, then please do not let the trival matter of an evidence bother you. Pakistan has a multitude of internal demons, which will have to tamed and Pakistan has no choice, but to deal with its problems with or without India making it difficult for Pakistan.
As to the Chinese Muslim extermists, it would be interesting to see, whether a link can be established between them and the Chinese Muslims. All Pakistan needs to do is establish a causal link and tackle the LeT and HuM for their connections in fermenting unrest in China. Most Pakistanis would accept that reasoning, because of their attitude that Pakistani-Chinese friendship needs to be preserved. Musharraf may opt to deal with these groups under the above mentioned pretext, because remember China also occupies Kashmir and if the intention of these groups is to liberate Kashmir, then the Chinese Kashmir could also be considered as a focus of their efforts and that implies creating unrest in Chinese occupied Kashmir.
Musharraf cannot tackle these groups directly without risking a popular opinion and he will try to deal with them via a political detour and minimize the popular reaction in Pakistan. Bush when he announced that these groups were being put on the terrorist list, mentioned they were ``stateless`` and undermining Musharraf`s government. Why did he say that? Pakistan`s cooperation in the anti-terror coalition did not end with Afghanistan and again, Bush has been reported as saying that he keeps a scorecard on each nation and how they are performing in this war against terror.
Pakistan will have no choice, but to act in this matter and it is not a question of if, but rather when. The only problem is that the ``when`` needs to be defined and marked out in a sense that it maintains Musharraf`s power in Pakistan, does not undermine the United States interests in the region and helps India in its struggles against these groups. It will be a delicate balancing act.
Yes, I would agree that the next round against terrorism will be Kashmir and Pakistan. It has to be, because the menace of terror has to be removed from Pakistan and the polarization of Pakistani politics along religious lines has to be ended. In my personal opinion, Musharraf will move against the LeT and HuM, because they pose a threat to his own stability. If on the other hand, he is removed from power then all bets are off as to who will replace him. Hence, he needs to move carefully in order to tackle these groups and the United States, in the short term, cannot push him too far.
The first step in the process, was the replacement of the ISI chief, but replacing the head of the ISI does not mean much untill the whole ISI is purged. That will take time, but it will be done, because now Musharraf has no option, but to continue taming the extermist tiger - he cannot afford to get down without finishing the job. The war against the extermists in Pakistan started, when Pakistan agreed to American demands in the aftermath of September 11, 2001. The rout of the Taliban demoralized the religious element in Pakistan and made them vunerable in the arena of public opinion for the first time. Most Pakistanis were shocked at the way the Taliban folded and seemed to prefer secular matters over religious ones - life over death.
The same thing needs to done and the Pakistanis shown the true nature of these organizations who are doing more damage to the Kashmiri right of self-determination than India and Pakistan combined.
I have no idea how this will all end; I can only hope for the best!
Ciao
#38 Posted by ali1 on December 23, 2001 11:01:58 am
Aqil Shah, your views are very similar to Arun Shourie`s. Some sentences seem to have been picked up directly from his recent articles.
This I found funny:
[For one, the India-bashing on PTV clearly belies Islamabad`s purported reversal of its jihad policy]
Have you seen Zee tv, Star Tv or Door darshan lately? In a warlike atmosphere, it is appropriate and neccessary to ``bash`` the enemy and PTV is doing a fair job. What do you recommend it should do? Broadcast Bagpipe`s poetry?
This I found funny:
[For one, the India-bashing on PTV clearly belies Islamabad`s purported reversal of its jihad policy]
Have you seen Zee tv, Star Tv or Door darshan lately? In a warlike atmosphere, it is appropriate and neccessary to ``bash`` the enemy and PTV is doing a fair job. What do you recommend it should do? Broadcast Bagpipe`s poetry?
#39 Posted by jay on December 23, 2001 11:01:58 am
Aqil,
``Aqil, do you read Indian papers or 90% of Indian interactors on chowk at all? Heck, just going through the random selection in Yahoo News proves to be quite.. enlightening.``
The above is an advice to you from one of the chowk posters. No aqil dont read those, rather look at the government actions in pakistan. Actions of the collectve, institutionalised hatred is the key, not the posts of insignificance on the chowk and yahoo.
Hatred in pakistan is institutionalised against people of other religion, identifying a hindu is acurriculum requirement, and that is where it all starts. Then comes the blasphemy laws, a hindu has been arrested for making fun of a muslims beard. Then read the what is on the pass port. Then read all those non-articles honouring the abdus salam, and please, aqil, please do not look for abdus salam institute for theoretical physics in pakistan.
Make a call to the kemalist musheraff and ask him will he allow a conference in honour of abdus salam.
Now reread the post of assad-k and tell him, I like facts, manifest hatred, institutionalised hatred, the culmination and frution of an ideology that created pakistan.
regards
jay
``Aqil, do you read Indian papers or 90% of Indian interactors on chowk at all? Heck, just going through the random selection in Yahoo News proves to be quite.. enlightening.``
The above is an advice to you from one of the chowk posters. No aqil dont read those, rather look at the government actions in pakistan. Actions of the collectve, institutionalised hatred is the key, not the posts of insignificance on the chowk and yahoo.
Hatred in pakistan is institutionalised against people of other religion, identifying a hindu is acurriculum requirement, and that is where it all starts. Then comes the blasphemy laws, a hindu has been arrested for making fun of a muslims beard. Then read the what is on the pass port. Then read all those non-articles honouring the abdus salam, and please, aqil, please do not look for abdus salam institute for theoretical physics in pakistan.
Make a call to the kemalist musheraff and ask him will he allow a conference in honour of abdus salam.
Now reread the post of assad-k and tell him, I like facts, manifest hatred, institutionalised hatred, the culmination and frution of an ideology that created pakistan.
regards
jay
#40 Posted by shammi on December 23, 2001 11:01:58 am
``We regret the very arrogant and knee-jerk response of the Indian government...We (Pakistan and Afghanistan) are neighbors and need to live as good friends`` Musharraf said.
How much better it would have been if Musharraf had chosen to balance Indian `arrogance` with a few unkind words for the LeT and JeM. Unfortunately for him, global public opinion is not going to let a dictator call a democracy arrogant, while turning a blind eye on terrorists. Musharraf`s prescription for Pak-Afghan relations is strangely not being applied to Indo-Pak relations. Sigh. India, meanwhile, is not taking the hints that Musharraf is giving. A sampler from the Indian press:
``India`s graduated approach, through a measured exercize of options, seeks to penalize Pakistan not through immediate application of force but through controlled non-military retribution in the form of gradual, modulated steps up the punishment ladder, analysts said. Such is the degree of hostility towards Pakistan that no party barring the Left Front has come out to advocate moderation. ``
``Foreign Secretary S.K. Singh, who has been an envoy to Pakistan, said Vajpayee was opposed to the idea of hot pursuit of militants inside Pakistan. But, he added: ``He has other options in mind. For instance, ending the Indus Valley Water Treaty and starving Sindh and Punjab, scaling down of the mission,`` Singh said. The Indus Water Treaty of 1960 governs the distribution of water from the Indus river and its tributaries between India and Pakistan.
``And when Pakistan has digested this, we can stop over flights. We don`t need their airspace, they need ours,`` Singh was quoted by the newspaper today online daily as saying``
How much better it would have been if Musharraf had chosen to balance Indian `arrogance` with a few unkind words for the LeT and JeM. Unfortunately for him, global public opinion is not going to let a dictator call a democracy arrogant, while turning a blind eye on terrorists. Musharraf`s prescription for Pak-Afghan relations is strangely not being applied to Indo-Pak relations. Sigh. India, meanwhile, is not taking the hints that Musharraf is giving. A sampler from the Indian press:
``India`s graduated approach, through a measured exercize of options, seeks to penalize Pakistan not through immediate application of force but through controlled non-military retribution in the form of gradual, modulated steps up the punishment ladder, analysts said. Such is the degree of hostility towards Pakistan that no party barring the Left Front has come out to advocate moderation. ``
``Foreign Secretary S.K. Singh, who has been an envoy to Pakistan, said Vajpayee was opposed to the idea of hot pursuit of militants inside Pakistan. But, he added: ``He has other options in mind. For instance, ending the Indus Valley Water Treaty and starving Sindh and Punjab, scaling down of the mission,`` Singh said. The Indus Water Treaty of 1960 governs the distribution of water from the Indus river and its tributaries between India and Pakistan.
``And when Pakistan has digested this, we can stop over flights. We don`t need their airspace, they need ours,`` Singh was quoted by the newspaper today online daily as saying``
#41 Posted by shammi on December 23, 2001 11:01:58 am
Re: NASAH
``You are right in suggesting that instead of the 52 years of this knee jerk failed policy of India baiting -- why not try for a change -- the opposite friendship with India -- where almost half of Pakistani relatives live``
Laaton ke bhoot, baaton se nahin mantey. Musharraf has recently stated that Pakistan and Afghanistan need to live like good neighbors -- as friends. Strangely, this wisdom is not applied to Indo-Pak relations. Could the comprehensive defeat of Pakistan`s Afghanistan policy have something to do with Musharraf`s new-found wisdom?
``You are right in suggesting that instead of the 52 years of this knee jerk failed policy of India baiting -- why not try for a change -- the opposite friendship with India -- where almost half of Pakistani relatives live``
Laaton ke bhoot, baaton se nahin mantey. Musharraf has recently stated that Pakistan and Afghanistan need to live like good neighbors -- as friends. Strangely, this wisdom is not applied to Indo-Pak relations. Could the comprehensive defeat of Pakistan`s Afghanistan policy have something to do with Musharraf`s new-found wisdom?
#42 Posted by harimau on December 23, 2001 3:35:10 pm
Ref OmarAkram #: 28
[Allah will not ask you what you studied in Digital Sinal Processing class but rather what did u read in Numaz. Just give it a thought.]
Good thinking. Time to shut down Ghulam Ishaq Khan Institute of Technology and start a few madrassahs. While you are at it, shut down the medical schools also.
Allah is also likely to ask you whether you killed any infidels or not, whether you kept your women chaste and pure under the burqa and a whole lot of other uncomfortable questions which directly relate to the Koran. So, get yards of cloth and make sure you employ only female tailors for the clothes for your female relatives.
[Allah will not ask you what you studied in Digital Sinal Processing class but rather what did u read in Numaz. Just give it a thought.]
Good thinking. Time to shut down Ghulam Ishaq Khan Institute of Technology and start a few madrassahs. While you are at it, shut down the medical schools also.
Allah is also likely to ask you whether you killed any infidels or not, whether you kept your women chaste and pure under the burqa and a whole lot of other uncomfortable questions which directly relate to the Koran. So, get yards of cloth and make sure you employ only female tailors for the clothes for your female relatives.
#43 Posted by rsaxena on December 23, 2001 3:35:10 pm
re: the retard who wrote this
{Allah will not ask you what you studied in Digital Sinal Processing class but rather what did u read in Numaz. Just give it a thought.}
where does this Q&A session with allah take place?...what is the best way to get there?...do indian troops give you an express trip as you sneak into indian territory as a jehadi terrorist?
{Allah will not ask you what you studied in Digital Sinal Processing class but rather what did u read in Numaz. Just give it a thought.}
where does this Q&A session with allah take place?...what is the best way to get there?...do indian troops give you an express trip as you sneak into indian territory as a jehadi terrorist?
#44 Posted by soysauce on December 23, 2001 3:35:10 pm
#36 shammi
Singh`s idea to ``starve`` punjab & sindh is dangerous, goes against civilizational norms and would rightly array foreign powers against india. Blockade sea lanes if you must, restrict over flights - these are luxuries. But water rights are not. Hope india does not go down THAT road. It would also be declaring war on the citizens of pakistan..
Singh`s idea to ``starve`` punjab & sindh is dangerous, goes against civilizational norms and would rightly array foreign powers against india. Blockade sea lanes if you must, restrict over flights - these are luxuries. But water rights are not. Hope india does not go down THAT road. It would also be declaring war on the citizens of pakistan..
#45 Posted by sigalph235 on December 24, 2001 2:41:34 am
re omarakram
``Allah will not ask you what you studied in Digital Sinal Processing class but rather what did u read in Numaz. Just give it a thought.``
Did Allah give you an advance copy of the test questions?
Jihad, jihad, jihad. The only jihad that needs to happen is the one against terror, terrorists, and terror sponsors. Listen carefully to what President Bush has repeatedly said: there will be no respite until the last thug is brought to justice (or justice brought to him).
We are truly in the advent of a new duality that replaces the old US-USSR split. This time it is the pluralist, progressive, modernists versus the retrograde apologists of middle aged barbarity. And as before, the free world shall win. Not the least because `without victory there is no hope for civilization`(Churchill).
``Allah will not ask you what you studied in Digital Sinal Processing class but rather what did u read in Numaz. Just give it a thought.``
Did Allah give you an advance copy of the test questions?
Jihad, jihad, jihad. The only jihad that needs to happen is the one against terror, terrorists, and terror sponsors. Listen carefully to what President Bush has repeatedly said: there will be no respite until the last thug is brought to justice (or justice brought to him).
We are truly in the advent of a new duality that replaces the old US-USSR split. This time it is the pluralist, progressive, modernists versus the retrograde apologists of middle aged barbarity. And as before, the free world shall win. Not the least because `without victory there is no hope for civilization`(Churchill).
#46 Posted by sigalph235 on December 24, 2001 2:41:34 am
re ahmad madani
``Jinnah Sahib has asked pakistan for liberation of kashmir``
Jinnah sahib had also asked you guys to create a modern parliamentary democracy where `religion ceases to be a matter for the state(8/11/47). Funny you remembered only the Kashmir part. But well as it may. So, I can assume that you will start fulfilling your oath to Jinnah sahib by promptly relinquishing the Pakistani-held part of Kashmir?
``E.Pak. was scrafise for K.``
No, the erstwhile East Pakistan decided through her elected representatives to give the boot to the Punjabi Army. There was no Kashmir involved here.
``... do not forget it. Without K. Pakistan is nothing. ``
If your education in reflected in the spelling and grammar of this post, I am afraid even with Kashmir it won`t change much.
``...like lead without pretty eyes. it is bindig thing. Sindhis,punjabis....``
You forget the other binding thing-PIA!
``it defends against indian tank thrust in pak. ``
No, it runs the secretariats, wapda, PIA, hubco, cricket boards, and welfare trusts. Occasionally it also butchers Bengalis and Baluchis so that medals can be earned the hard way. When actually faced with real opposition, it meekly surrenders 90,000 men without much fight. Sadly that is what happens when the corrosion of power and civilian comforts gets to a professional army. The Pakistan Army of 1947 and 1948 was more than a match for India`s. Fifty years of indulging in politics has left it a pale and bloated shadow of its former glory.
``Jinnah Sahib has asked pakistan for liberation of kashmir``
Jinnah sahib had also asked you guys to create a modern parliamentary democracy where `religion ceases to be a matter for the state(8/11/47). Funny you remembered only the Kashmir part. But well as it may. So, I can assume that you will start fulfilling your oath to Jinnah sahib by promptly relinquishing the Pakistani-held part of Kashmir?
``E.Pak. was scrafise for K.``
No, the erstwhile East Pakistan decided through her elected representatives to give the boot to the Punjabi Army. There was no Kashmir involved here.
``... do not forget it. Without K. Pakistan is nothing. ``
If your education in reflected in the spelling and grammar of this post, I am afraid even with Kashmir it won`t change much.
``...like lead without pretty eyes. it is bindig thing. Sindhis,punjabis....``
You forget the other binding thing-PIA!
``it defends against indian tank thrust in pak. ``
No, it runs the secretariats, wapda, PIA, hubco, cricket boards, and welfare trusts. Occasionally it also butchers Bengalis and Baluchis so that medals can be earned the hard way. When actually faced with real opposition, it meekly surrenders 90,000 men without much fight. Sadly that is what happens when the corrosion of power and civilian comforts gets to a professional army. The Pakistan Army of 1947 and 1948 was more than a match for India`s. Fifty years of indulging in politics has left it a pale and bloated shadow of its former glory.
#47 Posted by Lajwanti on December 24, 2001 2:41:34 am
Take THAT HINDIAN HOGEMONISTS!!!!!! esp Harimiaowmiaowmiaow1
http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/dec2001-weekly/nos-23-12-2001/lit.htm#4
Separating Urdu from Sanskrit
Pakistani intellectuals have been looking for the roots of their separate identity in the remote past for the last two decades. They are not satisfied with the two-nation theory propounded by Allama Iqbal, according to which religion was the basis of nationhood and accordingly the Hindus and Muslims of the Indian sub-continent were separate nations.
They go deeper. They want to show that Pakistan and its culture has its roots in the prehistoric eras.They believe that the Indus and the Gangetic valleys have always been home to separate civilizations. Being the heir to the Indus valley civilization, Pakistan is a geographic entity whose roots go back to time immemorial.
Many intellectuals have taken pains to substantiate this theory. Professor Qudrat Ullah Fatmi, to my knowledge, was the first to write a book on it. Aenul Haq Faridkoti and Prof. Mohammad Asif followed him. However, Aitazaz Ashan`s book titled Sindh Saga carries the best and long drawn out exposition of this concept. Now Khalid Hasan Qadiri has joined this group of theoreticians. In one of his articles published in the current issue of the monthly Al-Ma `arif of Lahore under the title of `Rough notes on Urdu` he has come up with the claim that the Urdu language has nothing to do with Sanskrit and that its roots are far deeper than this language of the gods and goddesses.
Hitherto, the generally held belief has been that Urdu came into being as a result of social contacts between the Muslims who came to India during the middle ages and the native population. So the language was taken to be a cross-breed of Turko-Persian-Arabic vocables with the local dialects. This is, in a nutshell, the view held by such eminent linguists as G.A. Griesson and Sir Charles Lyall, to mention only two. This theory presupposed that these dialects themselves were based upon, or rather were a by-product of Sanskrit.
Khalid Hasan Qadiri want us to understand that the situation is not as simple or straight forward as it seems or is presented. One has to go very far back in history or rather to prehistory, and turnover many strata of periods of time.
Going back in history, he reaches the conclusion that Urdu has its roots in the languages of the Munda tribes who were the inhabitants of the Indus Valley in pre-Dravidian periods. This view is supposed to be based on the latest excavations of Amri, Nal, Roper, Rajasthan and Kathyawar.
In this way we are led to belive that the Urdu language has a very well-defined and clear-cut grammar, absolutely different from Sanskrit in every respect. The very basic philosophy governing the grammatical structure of these two languages is totally different. And by any stretch of imagination one cannot state Urdu to have emanated from the sacred language of the Hindus. Grammatically speaking Urdu owes nothing to Sanskrit. Hence it cannot be grouped with the Aryan language either. It clearly belongs to some non-Aryan group of languages. And this view is supposed to give us us some solace.
http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/dec2001-weekly/nos-23-12-2001/lit.htm#4
Separating Urdu from Sanskrit
Pakistani intellectuals have been looking for the roots of their separate identity in the remote past for the last two decades. They are not satisfied with the two-nation theory propounded by Allama Iqbal, according to which religion was the basis of nationhood and accordingly the Hindus and Muslims of the Indian sub-continent were separate nations.
They go deeper. They want to show that Pakistan and its culture has its roots in the prehistoric eras.They believe that the Indus and the Gangetic valleys have always been home to separate civilizations. Being the heir to the Indus valley civilization, Pakistan is a geographic entity whose roots go back to time immemorial.
Many intellectuals have taken pains to substantiate this theory. Professor Qudrat Ullah Fatmi, to my knowledge, was the first to write a book on it. Aenul Haq Faridkoti and Prof. Mohammad Asif followed him. However, Aitazaz Ashan`s book titled Sindh Saga carries the best and long drawn out exposition of this concept. Now Khalid Hasan Qadiri has joined this group of theoreticians. In one of his articles published in the current issue of the monthly Al-Ma `arif of Lahore under the title of `Rough notes on Urdu` he has come up with the claim that the Urdu language has nothing to do with Sanskrit and that its roots are far deeper than this language of the gods and goddesses.
Hitherto, the generally held belief has been that Urdu came into being as a result of social contacts between the Muslims who came to India during the middle ages and the native population. So the language was taken to be a cross-breed of Turko-Persian-Arabic vocables with the local dialects. This is, in a nutshell, the view held by such eminent linguists as G.A. Griesson and Sir Charles Lyall, to mention only two. This theory presupposed that these dialects themselves were based upon, or rather were a by-product of Sanskrit.
Khalid Hasan Qadiri want us to understand that the situation is not as simple or straight forward as it seems or is presented. One has to go very far back in history or rather to prehistory, and turnover many strata of periods of time.
Going back in history, he reaches the conclusion that Urdu has its roots in the languages of the Munda tribes who were the inhabitants of the Indus Valley in pre-Dravidian periods. This view is supposed to be based on the latest excavations of Amri, Nal, Roper, Rajasthan and Kathyawar.
In this way we are led to belive that the Urdu language has a very well-defined and clear-cut grammar, absolutely different from Sanskrit in every respect. The very basic philosophy governing the grammatical structure of these two languages is totally different. And by any stretch of imagination one cannot state Urdu to have emanated from the sacred language of the Hindus. Grammatically speaking Urdu owes nothing to Sanskrit. Hence it cannot be grouped with the Aryan language either. It clearly belongs to some non-Aryan group of languages. And this view is supposed to give us us some solace.
#48 Posted by tahmed321 on December 24, 2001 2:41:34 am
I think the article is basically on the mark. While the intentions of those responsible for the Delhi attack may not be clear, the affects are very clear: at a time when Pakistan badly needed peace with India while it moved substantial forces to control it`s western borders, and as the movement towards the return of democracy was picking up momentum with the advent of local self-governments, the country now has to gear itself for another military confrontation with India.
Whoever was responsible for this attack did not have the interests of the Pakistani people or any other people in mind - only his own political ambitions.
Whoever was responsible for this attack did not have the interests of the Pakistani people or any other people in mind - only his own political ambitions.
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