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shankar #68: My computer business is basically me and my part-time Indian partner/accountant. My grandfather, from pre-partition days, once told me (with due apologies to our good friend Harpeet :-)), ``jeeri sohni, ooh sikhni; jeera jhalla, ooh sikh; jeera hushyar, ooh hindu; jeera laraka, ooh musla......

The whole thing is a lot longer and rhymes. But I have followed his advice. So my South Indian Hindu partner (whose last name I still cannot pronounce) makes all the major high level business decisions (which contract to sign, etc.). I make the sale, and execute on our plan, as a consultant, with start-up companies. The recent dot com crash has effected us adversely, so I have a lot of time to spend on Chowk, now.

I have very little knowledge of my own on China, apart from their food. I have never been there, although I am aware of the military joint programs going on between China and Pakistan. All of them are very promising, and I cannot see why these joint ventures would not role over to the private sector soon. I have, however, followed the views of world level Pakistani economists/businessmen like Shahid Burki, Razzaq Dawood, Shaukut Aziz, Moeen Qureshi, Safi Qureshi etc., and have just repeated them here.

In twenty-five years, China will only be ahead of the US in one area. And that is the total size of its economy. The reason Japan was unable to achieve this was because it has half the population of the USA. China has four times the population, and thus needs to only have 1/4th the per-capita income. Which it will have. It already has 1/8th.

In all other social areas like law, domestic human rights, environment protection, technology, freedom, living standards etc., the USA and the West will remain ahead. The US will be one of the top five best countries to live in the world. And China maybe in the thirties, somewhere. But all Pakistan is concerned with is the amount of goods Pakistan can export to China. And the amount of technology and economic joint projects Pakistan can import from China. Pakistanis do not need to start copying the Chinese society, they just need to start selling to the Chinese.

The reason China has been able to create a boom is because it has slowly transformed its economic system from a socialist one to a capatilist one. Unlike the Soviets, who attempted the transformation too quickly and abruptly. Slowly, the Chinese society is evolving into a more open one also. The wealthier the Chinese get, the easier this will be. I have a Chinese friend who was one of the student protestors in Tianeman square. He says, he now thanks God the protestors did not achieve much success in Tianeman. He is quite happy with a slow transformation, rather than a quick one.

I heard Mooen Qureshi of World Bank once state that he had met all the major leaderships in the world. And he found the Chinese leadership to be, by far, the most shrewd.

I think China sees the potential of Pakistan far more clearly than Pakistanis see it themselves. That is why China has gone out of its way to keep close relations with Pakistan, even though China currently does not gain anything major from Pakistan. In a sense, this must be very frustrating for China, since Pakistan keeps screwing up its vast potential, again and again.

However, I think now China seems have developed faith in Musharraf, and more importantly, in his bright economic team, and seems to be willing to make big-time investments in Pakistan, now. The second biggest part of the Pakistani budget (defence) is already very deeply intertwined with China.

I think every major decision made in Pakistan (nuclear explosion, current support in Afghan conflict, etc.) is made after detailed advice and consultations from the Chinese leadership. I wouldn`t be surprised if Musharraf is on the phone right now, discussing the current Indo-Pak crisis with the Chinese leadership.

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anNy,

#70

That was an absolutely , hilariously, intelligently intelligent post:)))!

Boy, we oughta get you mad more often!

sac, zafar,

tsk tsk tsk...boy, she gave you guys a mouthful. Serves you right for getting her stressed out ``at that time of the month``. Believe me, I know; I`ve been married to someone for 20 years who sounds like anNy:))

After making those sexist remarks, I`d better run because I see anNy at the cyber-horizon charging at me, swishing her pigtail like Bhimsen swishes his gadha!

re: saminashah #69

as new yorkers who love this city, we both can at least thank him for his handling of 9-11, which as you correctly claim was simply what he was supposed to do as mayor...but how many politicians do we know who do what they are supposed to do, let alone exceed our expectations?...

imagine what india or pakistan might have become if either had a rudy leading it...actually, maybe you shouldn`t answer that :)

dang, uncle shammi`s whipping uncle romair

What CNN(Certainly Not News)---would never tell you.

__________________________________________________

TORA BORA (Institute for Islamic Studies and Research): During the last week, the Hamza Al-Ghamidi unit in the Tora Bora region has shot down four American warplanes and killed approximately 140 US Special Forces soldiers in a series of daily, multiple ambushes. Having withdrawn from parts of Tora Bora about ten days ago, the Mujahideen split up into small units in order to engage US Paratroopers that had dropped in the region in order to search its caves. Due to the cowardly nature of the American troops, they dropped `Hummvee` jeeps and armoured vehicles with the soldiers. In a series of well-planned, multiple daily ambushes, the Hamza Al-Ghamidi unit attacked several bases and units of the Crusaders, killing approximately 140 of them. For the hypocrites and those with diseased hearts, such a figure is difficult to expect. However, in comparison with Mujahideen ambushes in Chechnya, a figure of 20 soldiers killed per day in multiple attacks, is actually quite small. It should be larger, but where it has not been possible to determine enemy dead, a lower figure has been given. The question arises, do the Mujahideen go round and count each dead body to arrive at these figures? The answer is that some dead bodies are clearly left behind and counted, whilst others are estimated from the number of destroyed vehicles. For example, if a Hummvee jeep with a normal capactiy of eight troops is destroyed and burnt to the shell, one can be confident that all eight troops on board were killed. As for the four warplanes, they were shot down using ordinary Anti-Aircraft weapons.

This report refutes the false claims by the World`s media that the war is over in North East Afghanistan. Rather, it is proof that the promised guerilla war by the Mujahideen has begun and time will tell who was lying and who was speaking the truth.

There are no Chechen Mujahideen in Tora Bora, as has been repeatedly claimed by the Crusader media, that there are 200 of them. At no stage during the fighting in Tora Bora have there been any Chechen Mujahideen. These claims are made by the media in cheap attempts to `incriminate` the Chechens as terrorists linked to Usama Bin Ladin, whom it is worthy to fight and kill.

Re: Romair

``...Musharraf has also stated he will not support the state of East Turkmenastan (in China)...Pakistan has accepted the third option of independent Kashmir (from another board)...``

Romair, do you think that the world runs according to what Musharraf (or you) want or don`t want? Even if it is blatantly hypocritical and contradictory? Anyway, you are not fooling any of us here.

Re: Romair

``...China is building a port in Gwadar...``

Did you not hear that all plans are on hold now? The Chinese are not yet certain how much Muhsarraf has cozied up to the Americans, and are unlikely to make an investment in a quasi-military project that might end up advancing US interests rather than Chinese...

Re: Romair

``...They (Pak-Americans) can either crawl back into the mouseholes and live scared....``

That is quite a retreat from your earlier exhortations to Chowkies to wear the Pakistani flag!

``...I think the country of choice for Pakistani immigrants and students will be China...``

Did you know that the Chinese are considered to be quite zenophobic? Besides, why not learn the lesson that the Japanese Amercians learned it WWII -- that loyalty and patriotism will stand them in good stead despite the indignity of internment?

Also, you need to read this book on China:

Coming Collapse of China by Gordon G. Chang (Random House)

Amazon.com review: From 1978 through the mid-1990s, China had the fastest-growing economy in the world, and it appeared poised to dominate Asia, and beyond, in the near future. But after focusing on facts rather than theory and looking at the conditions behind the spectacular numbers, Gordon Chang presents the People`s Republic as a study in wasted potential: ``Peer beneath the surface, and there is a weak China, one that is in long-term decline and even on the verge of collapse. The symptoms of decay are to be seen everywhere.`` For a nation that has always taken a long view of history, time is quickly running out. Chang believes China has about five years to get its economy in order before it suffers a crippling financial collapse--a timeline he seriously doubts can be met.

READ!----in the name of justice & fairplay.

In case anyone is under any delusion that by becoming a culture-clone of ``americanism``,they better brace themselves.Some stupids think that because they were born or brought up in America makes them `different` than their parents(from a higher culture & civilisation) are in for a rude shock.Remember the veneer of civility gets peeled of even when this vulgar society has their tummies full.It is not unheard of for them to become cannibals to prove darwin right(they are the only ones in history who did this during the two wars).

__________________________________________________

Trading off good family,culture,civilisation to bow before Mammon & Dajjal?

Peeling off the layers of your religion & culture & standing naked before these barbarians in pin-striped suits would achieve you nothing.Writing/speaking four-letter words is the

only progress you have made.Pretending to be ``modern`` will never redeem you-----you are worse than the blacks(born & bred here) only that by your snivelling & sucking up you do not realise how much you are despised.

Better learn to love your neighborhood mullah---you never know when you might need him.

__________________________________________________

RACIAL PROFILING AT DUKE UNIVERSITY

The following letter was sent by Duke University Professor Mike Reedy to a Pakistani Medical Student seeking admission to the Duke University Medical School. Emphasis added by myself.

From: Mike Reedy

To: ``Imran Bhaila`` , Hussain Khawaja , omer ashraf

CC: Harold Erickson

Subject: Re: SUMMER ELECTIVES

Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 13:57:23 -0500

yours is among three such message from 2d year med students in your school I have had in the last 10 days. Just in case you are legitimate, you should know my immediate reaction, and the true nature of your disadvantage.

Your ethnicity and your age (student age = idealistic) are so similar to those of the jihad-minded terrorists from the schools that nurtured the Taliban and Al-Quaeda that it is not worth our trouble to try to determine if you are a well-disguised terrorist or a real learning-motivated medical student. You may well be innocent, but some of your neighbors are as potentially lethal as anthrax or HIV, and must be protected against. As long as there are zealots whose idea of reasonable dialogue and persuasive rhetoric is suicide bombing, we seem to have no efficient choice but to react with suspicion, which must motivate us to extreme avoidance or to kill-or-be-killed defensive activism aimed at extermination. The problem of such global terrorism, motivated by a delusion of holy sanction for the killing of ``infidels``, presently comes mainly from your world and culture. You must solve it internally, or face rejection and suspicion such as mine from outside. If you and your fellows do not root out such unreason from your own ranks, you leave it be solved by unsympathetic military violence from outsiders. I believe it can only be finally solved by your internal action, and I pray you can find better and less violent solutions than we outsiders must use. You will then stand forth as true heroes and peace-bringers to all of humanity, rather than as members of a culture suspected for fostering, tolerating and covertly sympathizing with the deluded and doomed pseudo-heroism of future-hating jihad-minded suicide bombers. War-makers are no longer the heroes humanity needs.

Mike Reedy

Professor

__________________________________________________

In 1985, authorized by William Casey, the CIA planted a car bomb near a mosque in Beirut to kill Sheik Mohammed Hossein Fadlallah, a muslim cleric. The bomb missed the Sheik but killed 80 people, including children.

According to Victor Ostrovsky, a defector from Israel`s secret service, Mossad, Israel decided to mount a false flag operation designed to further discredit Libya, and provoke the US to attack an Arab nation. A transmitter loaded with pre-recorded messages was planted in Tripoli, Libya, by a Mossad team. The `Trojan Horse` beamed out fake messages about Libyan-authorized bombings and planned attacks that were immediately intercepted by US electronic monitoring. Convinced by this disinformation that Libya was behind the 1986 bombing of a Berlin disco in which a US soldier died, President Ronald Reagan ordered massive air attacks on Libya, including an obvious- and illegal (under US law) attempt to assassinate Qadaffi himself. Some 100 Libyan civilians were killed, including Qadaffi`s two year old daughter. Libyan officials had no idea why they were attacked.

Now, my question for Professor Reedy is if it is worth his trouble to determine if medical school applicants from the USA of Israel are serious students, or if intends to just dismiss them out of hand as potential bombers not worthy of his consideration.

Mr. Reedy cannot have it both ways. If the students of Pakistan are tainted by the actions of Al-Quaeda, then the students of the United States must be equally tainted by the actions of the CIA and the students of Israel equally tainted by the actions of the Mossad.

Conversely, if Professor Reedy is willing to accept American students despite the crimes of the CIA, and if he is willing to accept students from Israel despite the crimes of the Mossad, then he has no reason not to accept students from Pakistan despite the crimes of Al-Quaeda.

Professor should be ashamed of himself, and he has disgraced Duke University.

The President of Duke University can be reached at president@duke.edu

Warning: Post being written under severe stress

Zafarsaab, sac, username:

WHAT, explain to me, is wrong with being a bimbo? haan? Why should all of us need to be smart and intellectual and understand what the bloody english patient is all about or why kahlil gibran did what he did when what they (note pls they not we) really want to do is slip into some very comfy politically incorrect pj`s (I don`t care if that made no sense) and watch temptation island and GIGGLE and eat fried chicken all the while and then b!tch about how silly it is and how they have no values and how the waist is starting to expand more than it should and so bloody what if having a nice waxing lady makes them happier than any man or ugly diamond can and if they don`t know jackshit about pc…ANSWERMEPLEASE…you gentlemen ned to understand that just like being smart is a good thing, being stupid is also a good thing…why, I love all the bimbos around me more than life itself…I hope fervently my best bud marries his bimbo girlfriend…so stupid them both, there will be eternal happiness in the house and beautiful nieces and nephews…bimbo`s are idiots (male bimbos and female bimbos) who wish no harm upon others...that they are nice looking is a positive factor…they beautify the environment…they are often kind and great amusement...how many smart men and women out there do all of this aik saath? what i am trying to say is that miss haq is a beautiful speciment of bimbohood…she is a gift to us from above…she revels in her fake lenses, enjoys her stupidness, laughs heartily at herself, is so full of what she apparently views as a great catch its ego bloating for readers, is so catty she makes even the b!tchiest of us feel like angels…and on top of that, she sometimes is tummy hurting funny…if our shandy can be a smart and funny girl friday then why, I ask you can ms. Haq not be a stupid as hell and funny girl friday? And just for the record, she isnt as stupid as she pretends to be…nobody can be that stupid…my point being that if intelligent and smart people are a good thing for society and given respect than so should bimbo`s be…they look good and spread love..they have as much right to be respected, loved citizens of earth as all you smarties

and username u got something against alto riding, dupatta oarhing females? i happen to do both quite often and theres no mehroomi in my eyes thank you very much..and pls chill about my sisters in altohood for they don`t read girl friday..i am an exception…bhaimerae, what complex could that idiot possibly give ANYBODY? let her be



Mr.sac:

Ref: `...how about a narrative relating those trials and tribulations at Freddys, Zouq and the rest of the playgrounds of the rich and the pretentious?…`

im sticking my tongue out at you as I write this…very funny

huNh

Rsax,

I appreciate your happiness over El Duce`s Man 0` The Year honor. Its amazing what happens when a mayor just does his/her job rather than indulging in some questionable and divisive tactics... Hmmm...what voodoo did Rudy do so well? He brought down crime in NYC; but, yeah, there was that little matter of an out of control police force, including the the ``special`` unit that gunned down the innocent African immigrant Amadou Diallo, and shot him 41 times. He cares for our kids which is why he has attempted to discredit the Teacher`s union in trying to organize for better working conditions, classrooms, supplies, and benefits...There are his spineless spates of grandstanding with Arab leaders he doesn`t ``like``, and his illustrious career as an art critic who hired his divorce lawyer to be on a committee that evaluated ``decent`` art; wait there`s more...How about his flimflamming on stepping down from his mayoral position as per New York City state law? Such coyness is rarely seen outside a girls junior high school... There was his competent handling of the WTC crisis and indeed, he proved himself to be able to perform his duties as any Mayor would. But does anyone remember the tantrums, the ugliness about issues of contention such as the Occupied Territories? My litmus test for integrity insists that all humans are equal; El Duce thinks some humans are more human than others... But the piece de resistance was his endorsement of Mike Moneybags Bloomberg, a candidate who could bail New York City out of debt from his own personal coffers. And why not, right?

Still think New Yorker Jimmy Breslin nailed it when he summed up Rudy with this pithy phrase; `` a small man looking for a balcony``. Apparently the balcony has been supplied...and by chance and not through outstanding leadership, either.

Romair,

Very nice post(s) re China. Yes, all indications are that at the present rate of growth China will be a superpower in the next few decades.

Will it overtake the US?--I`m not sure about that.

I`m not a expert..BUT:)

1) The US is the biggest investor in China. So if China thrives economically, those investments will be goldmines. After all, the Americans havent invested there for philanthropic purposes.

2) China lacks legal institutions to safeguard business disputes, like the US does. If the economic success is due to the capitalistic twist that China has been experimenting with in the past 2 decades, it better set up a system FAST.

3)Lack of transparency & corruption is rife in China. Its not a uniquely Chinese problem. But in a country where there is going to be a rapid rise & a quickly increasing gap between the haves & have nots, it will create a lot of resentment. As numerous as the haves are, the have nots are in the majority. The US has a lot of checks & balances that temper social resentment--the Chinese havent.

4)In the 80s everybody was saying that Japan`s economy would dominate the world by the year 2000. The Japanese seemed unstoppable. What happened?

5) I think theres going to be an explosion in China--sooner, rather than later. The Tiannamen Square incident was squashed. You are a great proponent of the theory--``you cant suppress the aspirations of people with authoritarian force forever``.



Yes, youre right! As standards of living are rising in China, that time bomb is ticking louder. When a man`s belly is full & he has a roof over his head, he starts thinking about esoteric concepts like freedom & democracy. Authoritarian regimes are used to power--they dont give it up without a fight.

But you a very right in that Pakistan should look at China increasingly for support. The US has been unreliable. The Arabs are crazy, to say the least. Despite my above criticisms of China, I agree, they have earned my admiration & respect. They have single handedly transformed their country to a great economic & military power. If India could have achieved only 20% of what China has achieved in the last 30 yrs, I would have been proud.

Lastly, on a personal note, I`m very jealous of optimists like you:) You have a way of looking at the bright side of everything. Whats more, you have a way of analysing things that make a lot of sense (even when I dont agree with them:)). I`m sure you are extremely successful in your computer business. Optimists DESERVE success. Heck, even when they fail, they interpret is a success! More power to you!

THANK GOD, OSAMA IS A ..

Pak president mushy has announced that osama is dead. It is the same person who said that indian plane hijackers vanished at the pak afghan border. He also wanted indians to identify who hijacked the a/c so that he could arrest them.

Now it is the turn of osama to vanish, sorry to die. The good part is he is not a hindu in which case mushy could have claimed that he was cremated and ashes spread on his beloved tora boro mountains. That would have well and truly foxed the yanks.

Sorry mushy, your game is up. There are times when it is better, not to be a hindu, at least for the americans. Osama, DNA exterts are looking for you. Mushy come up with the body.

sac Reply #: 64

``How about a narrative relating those trials and tribulations at Freddys, Zouq and the rest of the playgrounds of the rich and the pretentious? Or would that be too much to take for the burqa-clad virgins in the backseat of the Alto?``

Well, the sort of time I`ve wasted at such places, I should really be doing weekly features on them for TFT. But I think you missed the point of my previous post altogether. The thing is all of us --- including the not-so-rich-and-pretentious --- can afford to dine out in classy restaurants, celebrate basant at falaani haweli, attend falaan`s keg party... to be identified as a part of that ultra mod social circle (take the glamor out and I bet, not even half as many would be seen ``enjoying`` at the same places). And those who can`t FINANCIALLY afford, most probably don`t read TFT and the like anywayz. The problem arises when you CAN afford, but are socially not allowed to have such a lifestyle. The ``burqa-clad virgins in the backseat of the Alto`` WANT TO and CAN very well be the a$$ shaking hotties on the dance floors of GOR but the sort of social barriers we have don`t allow them to do so. I`m so not into the feminist crap of nowadays and the sort of sh1t these NGOs promote but I do think it`s high time we, as a nation, make up our minds on this... EITHER we can preach Islam to our girls and expect them to be idols of morality that we want them to be OR we can let the Aaminah-Haqish lifestyle, with a bf here and and a coupla ex-bfs there, damagh gharabofy them and let them do whatever the hell they want to do! Cuz it`s certainly not working out the way it is right now.