Reaction

Happy New Years Everybody! (except for 12 head)

re: 12-head retard AAmir

{{You know i dont lie when i say i have 1801.q. I am far from numb skull.If you want credibility ,you will be judged by your evaluation of me & i have already been certified scholar .Why dont you stop listening to wrong ppl. who are jelous of my confidence & mistake my arguments for arrogence.}}

thanks for the first good laugh in the new year

The standard of chowk --- both in terms of articles and interactions --- has gone down drastically in recent days :-(

bleh...i get pulled aside at the airports for additional frisking every now and then...big friggin deal...got a stare from some honky on the flight the other day...big friggin deal...i`d rather they search me as much as they want than have another terrorist incident...

self serving indeed!

F. Zehra Rizvi,

I am glad that you expressed yourself here. We
sometimes need to take that thin layer of formality off to approach what we really feel.

What pi$$i$ me off most of all is the hypocrisy
behind all of this new found love for freedom and democracy in Afghanistan. What really gets my goat is that over the long years when I was opposing dictatorship in Pakistan (remember those
lovely Zia years anyobody?), I continuosly got reminded that Jihad was GOOD and that such groups
based in Pakistan, supported by Uncle Sam were
``Freedom Fighters`` for the free world.
Today these same people have the audacity to question my commitment to democracy and freedom
and not to mention loyalty to the United States?

More Later

Ras

While I understand the feelings of those who faced racial discrimination after 9/11, I feel that sometimes we Muslims over-react. I live in a white neighborhood, I am one of the only two ‘desis’ in my office and generally most of my neighbors and colleagues have been very supportive. They understand that most of the Muslims living in North America are not responsible for or involved in the terror attacks of Sept. 11.

Since the attacks I have spoken at a church group and a university on terrorism and Muslims and found the audience willing to go beyond common prejudices. Some of them even made serious attempts to understand the issues involved and read the books and articles I had suggested.

As a journalist working for a mainstream American news agency, I wrote at least 50 articles on the issues concerned with or emanating from the Sept. 11 attacks, often talking to Muslim clerics both in and outside the United States.

Not even once my editors edited out the portions they did not like, not even those based on interviews with Maulana Fazlur Rahman and Samiul Huq.

While these two scholars advocated attacking Americans and other Western nationals living in the Islamic world if bin Laden is killed, more sober scholars like Prof. Anis Ahmad of the Islamic University, Islamabad, tried to explain why there was so much anger and frustration against the West among the Muslims.

All such observations and comments were published as they said and I wrote. Here is a comment I received from my Managing Editor on a piece about Kabul: “..., I can never forgive you for writing this. I thought as a hardened journalist, I was incapable of crying but you made me cry.”

And what will you say about Robert Fisk’s comments after he was attacked by a group of Afghans near Chaman? He wrote, “I understand why I was attacked and sympathize with those who attacked me. I would have done the same, if Afghan planes were bombing my cities.”

Don’t we Muslims over-react a little? How would have Muslims reacted if the 9/11 had happened in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia?

Best. Darkhorse

Darkhorse # 4

``Don’t we Muslims over-react a little? How would have Muslims reacted if the 9/11 had happened in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia?``

Yes, desis do overreact. If the planes would have hit Mecca (as sacred to Saudi Arabia as Wall Street is to USA in a way), I do not believe many whites would have lived to complain Saudi misbehavior.

In my company in New York, twelve people have been fired so far for making indecent remarks (verbally or e-mails) about Arabs and/or Muslims. I am sure that other firms are also trying their best to make sure that no employee has to suffer indignities due to criminal acts of their co-religionists.

This, however, does not mean that New Yorkers are not seething with anger against jihadis and Muslim fundamentalist education. You can see it in the coverage on Fox, MSNBC or CNN and 90% approval rating for Bush. Pakistan is under microscope for questions like - can it control Talibans, Osama (if he is there), fundamentalists? The bull crap that worked for India, ``moral and political support only``, will not work with the uncle. US wants this cancer out NOW. We can not take ANY chances with these bxstexds. Our employees, once politically correct mask is out and they are out of company premises, openly talk about nuking the criminal monsters, in as many countries as needed, to fix the problem once for all.

The self flagellation simply will not stop. there is no hiding from this - we can have a ``good attitude``, ``accentuate the postive`` etc. here`s the way it is: ``With us or against us`` - there is no gradation or degree, no room to negotiate the entry of reason.

These are the first shots, anybody who thinks we have heard the last of these events and players, and that long term consequences (even if unintended) will not result is deluding him or herself.

This is a good reality check. Somehow people find it difficult to believe how easy it is for America to turn back to its ``old`` ways - coloured`s coudn`t even drink from the same fountain as whites only 40 years ago...

Truthfully, we must try to understand things from thier perspective. Everyone generalizes and we may have acted like them if it happened to US...

I especially enjoyed the REALISTIC language (and the blatant HYPOCRISY of Chowks ``editors`` - what else is new...)

TERRIBLE AMERICANS,

It is pathetic to see a pakistani complaing about over reaction by the americans. If you have any guts write about the spontaneous distruction of temples in pakistan when babri was dismantled.

Talk about what the pakistan gvt has done about it while in india even after a decade we are taking about it.

Just go back to pakistan and relive and record thae reaction of the pakistanis, followers of islam, the religion of peace.

PILLOW TALK, AN INTERVIEW WITH MUSHERAFF,

PT, Is it true that OBL is in pakistan

M, Yes, he is in pakistan

PT, Is he a honoured guest as in afgh, or is he going to be tried as a war criminal.

M, He is no guest, but we are going to use him to destroy our enemy.

PT, That means al quida will fight in kashmir.

M, No not at all, we are going to send him to kashmir.

PT, How will that help.

M, As soon as he is in kashmir, we will inform the americans. We will position him near indian military positions and the US bombs will destroy them.

PT, That appear to be a good idea.

M, Yes, we have asked Laskers to move OBl to various catonments in india and keep informing the americans. That will be the end of india the terrible hindoos as my friend hamid used to say.

PT, A devastated india and afghanistan, that will be in line with their new friendship.

One of those `Letters to the Ed` which most definitely fall on deaf ears. Just thought I`ll post it here to, if nothing else, take it outta my system :-P

Dear Editor (The Friday Times)

I`m absolutely dumbfounded, shocked, horrified etc at this utter waste of time, money and server space called ``Girl Friday``. Would you mind letting the public know WHAT in the world is on your mind that you insist on publishing this absolute crap, week after week after week. I`m so not able to understand what purpose, if any, is printing of this bull serving and what do you want the reader to get out of this non sense?!? Your neo-liberal crap on other pages of the site is enough for one to pull hair outta his/her head, then why this BS? WHY?

Regards

zehra

I have believed ever since i read your work some 3 years ago that you are possibly the finest female-asian-writer living.



this piece was incoherent and distorted for `real`- it had none of the skillfully deliberate and planned disturbing symbolism of your other pieces. I wont comment on the content since it does things to my mind which are all too familiar and make me angry and sad and so many other things i dont have the energy to deal with anymore.

I hope you and your amme soon feel peace in this world gone mad.

I dunno b/c i am not in the same boat .But those neophyte arrogantly calling themselves AMERICAN teen Paki ,Indian,Chinese,Korean...dont forget that they are afterall hyphenated Paki -American ,Indian -American ,Chinese -American ...etc.NO MATTER HOW MISSGUIDEDLY ASHAMED THEY MAY FEEL ABOUT THERE HERITAGE THROUGH THE PRISM OF AMERICANA.

A good and overdue look at the side of the picture no one seems to have mentioned, so far, i.e. what the hell is going to happen to Muslims in the USA who look Middle Eastern, if another terrorist attack occurs here.

The situation isn`t this bad in California. Probably because it is geographically distant, or because nearly the whole, ``Middle Eastern looking`` community is in very strong positions. For example, my reaction to anyone who would make any kind of a comment towards me or my religion, would be a simple, ``fu * * off.`` One should not live one`s life in any kind of fear of anyone. However, it seems like the situation in the Northeast coast is different. I have heard this from others in that area, as well. People actually seem to be living in fear.

In a sense, one can only blame the Americans to a certain extent. People of Middle Eastern descent are blowing up their property, and sooner or later there was bound to be a backlash. At least, the Americans have attempted to be civilized within their own borders, even if this civility is decreasing by the day.

However, the first backlash should be against their own State Dept. But Americans are too naive, either deliberately or unintentionally, to realize what their State Dept. does, outside their own borders. I was in the military when the Afghan war was going on. During a few month long training course in the US, I remember watching a video, alongwith a large group of US soldiers, of the Afghan Mujahideen fighting the Soviets. After the video, everyone got up and gave a standing ovation to the Mujahideen. Every Muslim from all over the world was recruited by the CIA, to create an, ``Islamic force,`` (not a military force, mind you, but specifically an Islamic force) to fight the Godless Soviet empire. Just ask Zbignew Brezinski. So, at least some percentage of the blame for the deaths of the WTC tragedy is on the hands of the US State Dept.

If there is one more terrorist attack in the US, then the Middle Easterners in the USA need to re-prioritize their priorities. There will definitely be more, ``anti-terrorism`` laws, etc. What other option is there for the US govt? These will effect all people who look like Arabs (including Pakistanis and Indians), and all countries that have significant Muslim populations (including Pakistan and India). The group worst effected by this will be the children. I guess they will get the taste of what African-American children feel like.

My gut feeling is soon there will be a sharp move of Pakistani immigrants from the USA to Canada (specially if there is one more terrorist attack in the US, or if the US attacks one more country). This is actually a good thing. Within fifteen to twenty years, I think the country of choice for Pakistani immigrants and students will be China. Due to this, I think Pakistan should completely throw in its lot with China, right now. Pakistan needs to become China`s Canada (or Mexico). And just ensure that relations with the US never get bad (which now they will not).

The Pakistani-Americans need to figure out what kind of a face they will put on in the US society. They can either crawl back into the mouseholes and live scared. Or they can face the situation head-on, and react strongly to any attack. Or they can live in a state of fantasy, and continue to think that, the US laws and policies will only effect the, ``non-secular`` Pakistanis/Muslims, i.e. the ones who don`t go to Mardi Gras and get drunk. It is this third arrogant fake group that I do not respect. If the axe falls, everyone, including our Islam-denouncing Pakistanis of Chowk, will be considered cousins of Qazi Hussain and Fazl-ur-Rahman, by the US govt. So the third group needs to be specially careful.

The above situation has not been reached yet. And it may never be reached. But it is only one major terrorist attack away (which may occur if the US starts to attack Iraq). I think first generation immigrant Pakistanis need to accept the fact that regardless of how liberal (generally a good thing), secular (sometimes a good thing, sometimes bad), or non-Pakistani (always a fake and bad thing) they want themselves to be viewed as, the rest of the society will always see them as Pakistanis. And their relations with the society will be dependent on the policies Pakistan adapts, vis-a-vis America. Luckily, the current govt. has received wide acclaim in the US, hence Pakistan is a, ``friend.`` The expatriates need to thank Musharraf for that one, and hope he stays around for a while. He is the only Pakistani (or South Asian) leader who has a lot of credibility in the US.

Romair----13

[My gut feeling is soon there will be a sharp move of Pakistani immigrants from the USA to Canada (specially if there is one more terrorist attack in the US, or if the US attacks one more country). This is actually a good thing. Within fifteen to twenty years, I think the country of choice for Pakistani immigrants and students will be China. Due to this, I think Pakistan should completely throw in its lot with China, right now. Pakistan needs to become China`s Canada (or Mexico). And just ensure that relations with the US never get bad (which now they will not).]

Spoken like a true Shaheen of Iqbal!

I think it is a very opportune time for Muslims in US to shed their racist attitude towards the blacks and learn to become better muslims.It is such kind of amassing of the worse aspects of any culture which has reduced muslims to their present status.I also notice,here at chowk,a conspicous absence of some pride(gloating?)of ones Chinese,black,and arab associations & friendships.

An extra diligent effort must be made to broad-base & reinforce our Ummah ties.The masjids are a good place to start.Inviting these groups, especially the chinese & the blacks,to our homes is very very important.

re: romair

{Within fifteen to twenty years, I think the country of choice for Pakistani immigrants and students will be China.}

...holy $hit, this guy never ceases to amaze me...i`m sure all those chaptas are just waiting with open arms for hoardes of pakis to show up...put a lampshade on your head, stain your teeth brown with soy sauce, and slip into your favorite chairman mao t-shirt...

jihadic frontier,

At last die hard jihadists are waking up to the reality, see post 13, what happens after another terrorist attack. The option is pretty simple, seal the jihadic frontier for the movement of men and rechnology. Where there is technology for mass distruction, iraquise those countries. It has become increasingly clear was OBL was talking to some about the bomb technology.

There is no choice other than iraquisation and thus leaving the jihadic countries close to the seventh century from where their values have emerged and remained unchanged.

Have to agree with saxena on this (although I am sure he enjoys getting frisked by bubbas) - the american reaction has not been that bad - The thing that really pissed me off was when Sikhs were harassed who have nothing to do with this even remotely.

Ref Romair #: 13

[Within fifteen to twenty years, I think the country of choice for Pakistani immigrants and students will be China. Due to this, I think Pakistan should completely throw in its lot with China, right now.]

I suppose China is severely underpopulated and will need to import labor from Pakistan in 15-20 years.

The only thing China will need to import are women. Their male to female ratio is severely skewed due to selective abortion. But if you guys have 4 wives each, I don`t think you can afford to send any women to China either.

Dear Zehra

I kinda share your feelings. My maa keeps telling me on phone not to leave the campus... And I`m so not telling her I`ve been all over the place from Ground Zero to Celtics game last nite ;-)

Anywayz, I`m sure this time you were not ``able to feel the magic and excitement one gets from seeing scrambled thoughts become coherent sentences``. Or were you? This did`nt look like your work... you`re so much better :-|

Best of life

Dear Mr./Ms. Rizvi,

I thought you brought up some fine points in this piece and I can relate. There is no easy balance in this and I often find myself struggling not to lean too much over to one side or another. Anyone who says diffently is either not being entirely honest or spends a great deal of time in front of the television.

Speaking of time in front of the tube wisely spent, I caught two great shows on C-Span2. One was a lecture by Ahmed Rashid, author of ``Taliban`` and the other by William Styron. Rashid was expectedly brilliant as was Styron. I was particularly struck by a playwright named Donald Freed who offered some very incisive analysis on the post Sept. 11 collective ``depression`` that was engulfing America. One comment Freed made was that we have been reading work that has been produced by Americans who are writers rather than writers who happen to be American, and that we suffer from this difference.

regards

Reply Username # 10

re: your rant about TFT`s Girl Friday.

I don`t much care for it either, but perhaps it has a cult following? And where is the harm? Website hi hai, tho paper bhi waste nahin hotha.

Speaking of TFT, my favourite non-pol feature writer there is Faiza Khan. Ever since she described herself as a ``classist cow`` I have been a die hard fan. Such panache!

This was in a piece she was writing about Lahore. What is it, btw, about Lahore that irritates Karachi-ites so much? Shandana Minhas has also showed a similar lack of charity towards that city.

Zafar

zehra…..reading and hearing from family and friends about the racial backlash after the attacks, i was, in a way, glad (relieved?) that i wasn’t living in america at the time…..this wasn’t the america i grew up in, the america i remembered and knew…it was pretty surreal….not to mention heartbreaking….but it was a knee-jerk response and inevitable….

“The NYTimes today (12/5) had the story on the American Taliban, John Walker Lindh. They describe him as an eccentric young man who Rumsfeld is hesitant to call a traitor or terrorist. Lindh`s story comes under several different captions. No one is sure how to categorize him. Some media is calling him a traitor, others headline him :``U.S.Citizen`s Saga``. If Han or I went over to fight with the Taliban, the new and shiny military tribunal would be out in a second. Our interviews would not be on CNN or on the evening news. The headlines would not read U.S Citizen`s Saga, it would read ``Terrorists Breeding In Your Gentrified Neighbourhood of Ft. Greene, Brooklyn.`` Our parents would not be nameless and location-less finding us a lawyers, they would be mobbed and possibly in jail with us”

…..probably true…but think if the situation was reversed and you and han were living in a predominantly muslim country….your family def. would’ve been lynched and mobbed and your house def. burned down…and from what i’ve read, most americans prob. wouldn’t lose too much sleep if walker was tried for treason and hanged…

“In such confusing and horrible times, I can`t find it in me to talk to them rationally about anything. How do you tell a woman who is afraid to go shopping because she wears hijab that she has unalienable rights as a citizen? How do you tell her something like that when she is yelled at, stared at, honked at and verbally abused post 9/11 on a daily basis? You don`t. You just listen to her talk and try to keep your own sanity intact by not dreaming about it every night.”

…..sigh….i don’t know what you tell her….but you def. don’t sit home…..you go out, you live….and if some jerks doesn’t like the way you’re dressed, you tell them to stick it where the sun don’t shine….they give the majority of the tolerant ppl. in america a bad name….and you def. don’t lose precious sleep over neanderthals like them….

Farzana:

This was simply beyond beautiful! Shahayad aisay jazboN kay izhaar pay kuch bhi kaha nahi ja sakta.

And yeah, you always have a friend here! :)

Takes major guts to share such feelings that show your vulnerability! Beyond beautiful!

Love,

Kiran

p.s: dear anti-Farzanas out there, try not to make a mess here by spewing your bile. Not that you`ll listen, but give it a try, trust me you won`t pop a vein.

#: 18

harimau

``The only thing China will need to import are women. Their male to female ratio is severely skewed due to selective abortion. ``

Harami.OU

The only society that selectively aborts ,kills,burns ,abandons,&treats its female as burden is Hindians.In China its one child policy ,whether male or Female after that NO child either male or female.

zafarsaab:

``I don`t much care for it either, but perhaps it has a cult following? And where is the harm? Website hi hai, tho paper bhi waste nahin hotha.``

kya hogya hae aap ko bhai? its the best selling weekly in pakistan :)lotsa paper

re: rajanjua

{Have to agree with saxena on this (although I am sure he enjoys getting frisked by bubbas) - the american reaction has not been that bad - The thing that really pissed me off was when Sikhs were harassed who have nothing to do with this even remotely}

yeah, while bubba was frisking me, he mentioned something about you in the backroom and the thorough orifice search you demanded

re: semipreciousme

{and from what i’ve read, most americans prob. wouldn’t lose too much sleep if walker was tried for treason and hanged}

..that`s absolutely true...there was a poll on CNN.com last week asking that question..more than 70% of respondents said he should be tried for treason, which i think automatically carries the death penalty (not sure)...i do too...a grown man who was fully aware of what he was doing and did it anyway...his parents` ``he-was-brainwashed-by-mullahs-in-pakistan`` BS doesn`t fly...what the fcuk were they doing when he was evolving into a psycho...

HARAMI..OU #18

``Their male to female ratio is severely skewed due to selective abortion. But if you guys have 4 wives each, I don`t think you can afford to ``

all society is not misogynist as the hindian

http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=159361

No Place For Girls

Murdering female newborns is illegal, but a way of life in parts of India

BY MEENAKSHI GANGULY Deoli

[]PRASHANT PANJIAR/LIVEWIRE IMAGES FOR TIME

Lonely: Chandra Bhati is one of the few girls in her class

[]

[]



Where did all the little girls go? Akhila, a 70-year-old midwife, can tell you. She has assisted at virtually all the births of the past five decades in Deoli, a village in the Indian state of Rajasthan with more than 5,000 residents—and very few girls. Plenty of the babies she delivered were female. What happened to them? ``Dead, killed,`` she says bluntly. ``As soon as a girl is born they say, `Old lady, get out.` And after I leave, the mother twists its neck.`` Throughout the developing world, boys, who can support parents when they get old, are favored over girls. In India, the enduring dowry system makes the situation worse: poor families can go bankrupt trying to raise the cash or goods needed to get a daughter married. A boy is a better bet on the future: maternity clinics throughout India specialize in aborting female fetuses following amniocentesis and ultrasound exams (although the practice is illegal). Girls are more likely to be malnourished than boys and less likely to be taken to a doctor when sick. That brutal discrimination comes through in the latest Indian census, completed this year, which shows that in the 0-6 age group, there are only 927 females for every 1,000 boys. (Because more human males are born than females, the universal average is 952.) In Punjab state, the figure drops to a woeful 793 girls—and, ironically, Punjab is among India`s richest regions. In the capital of New Delhi last month parents stuffed a newborn girl into a plastic bag and left her in a ditch, where she was found barely alive being gnawed by stray dogs. In Deoli, a poor, desert farming village, just seven girls have been born into the warrior Bhati community—most prone to killing off their baby daughters—in the past decade. ``It`s in the water,`` jokes Ram Singh Bhati, an elder in a bright yellow turban. ``We Bhati men don`t produce daughters.`` That, of course, is biologically impossible. Most women in the village shrug and refuse to talk about the missing girls, but some matriarchs are more truthful. Nayan Kanwar, a 50-something grandmother of five, says she can`t understand the fuss. ``I had four girls, but I got rid of all of them.`` Why? ``They are a burden,`` she says, ``and best killed off early.`` How did she do it? ``Oh, I just did not feed them. I left them lying in a corner. They cried for a bit, but then they quieted down and eventually died. Only one lasted two whole days.`` Her pregnant sister-in-law is standing by. ``I will only love it if it is a boy,`` she says. ``I will have nothing to do with girls.`` The economics of the dowry system are brutal: the average Deoli family with a bride will transfer its modest wealth to the groom`s family. ``Stop coming here and criticizing us,`` carps one recently wed male villager. ``If you are so concerned, give us a fixed deposit for our daughters` dowries. Then see how many we produce.`` New laws are unlikely to make a difference: the old ones are simply ignored. It can take the tides of history to wash away the traditions that are killing Deoli`s newborns. Until then, average citizens will continue to take the situation—and their baby girls` fates—into their own hands.Write to TIME at mail@web.timeasia.com

[]

[]

``N.Y. Mayor Rudy Giuliani, who rallied his city after the September 11 terrorist attacks, is Time magazine`s Person of the Year.``

Go Rudy!

Zehra,

it was great to read your point of view.

i know some strong defenders of the hijab drop their covering post 9/11. although i`m not a fan of the hijab, i find the women who are wearing them despite the current political climate (esp. in NY, NJ) very courageous.

INTERVIEW---GENERAL HAMID GUL---26 sept 2001

Fascinating perspectives.

__________________________________________________

Transcript: UPI United Press International, Sep. 26, 2001 interviews General Gul:



De Borchgrave: So who did Black Sept. 11?

Gul: Mossad and its accomplices. The U.S. spends $40 billion a year on its 11 intelligence agencies. That`s $400 billion in 10 years. Yet the Bush Administration says it was taken by surprise. I don`t believe it. Within 10 minutes of the second twin tower being hit in the World Trade Center CNN said Osama bin Laden had done it. That was a planned piece of disinformation by the real perpetrators. It created an instant mindset and put public opinion into a trance, which prevented even intelligent people from thinking for themselves.

Q: So you`re already convinced bin Laden didn`t do it?

A: I know bin Laden and his associates. I`ve been with them here, in Europe and the Middle East. They are graduates of the best universities and are highly intelligent with impressive degrees and speak impeccable English. These are people who have rediscovered fundamental Islamic values. Many come from the Gulf countries where ruling royal families have generated hatred by the way they flout divine law, wasting billions on gratifying their whims, jetting around in large private jets by themselves, and sailing the Mediterranean in big private boats for weeks on end. Osama`s best recruits come from feudal areas that are U.S. protectorates and where millions of poor people are seeking human dignity. I have even visited a Christian convent school in Murree, 60 miles from here, where my 13-year-old daughter is studying. The young girls there have told me Osama is their hero. Osama`s followers identify with Mujahideen freedom fighters wherever they are defending Islam and its values.

Q: So what makes you think Osama wasn`t behind Sept. 11?

A: From a cave inside a mountain or a peasant`s hovel? Let`s be serious. Osama inspires countless millions by standing up for Islam against American and Israeli imperialism. He doesn`t have the means for such a sophisticated operation.

Q: Why Mossad?

A: Mossad and its American associates are the obvious culprits. Who benefits from the crime? The attacks against the twin towers started at 8:45 a.m. and four flights are diverted from their assigned air space and no air traffic controller sounds the alarm. And no Air Force jets scramble until 10 a.m. That also smacks of a small scale Air Force rebellion, a coup against the Pentagon perhaps? Radars are jammed, transponders fail. No IFF -- friend or foe identification -- challenge. In Pakistan, if there is no response to IFF, jets are instantly scrambled and the aircraft is shot down with no further questions asked. This was clearly an inside job. Bush was afraid and rushed to the shelter of a nuclear bunker. He clearly feared a nuclear situation. Who could that have been? Will that also be hushed up in the investigation, like the Warren report after the Kennedy assassination?

Q: At this point, someone might be asking what you`ve been smoking. What is Israel`s interest in such a monstrous plot, which, of course, no one believes except Islamist extremists who concocted this piece of disinformation in the first place, presumably to detract from the real culprits?

A: Jews never agreed to Bush 41 (George H.W. Bush, the 41st president) or 43 (his son George W. Bush, the 43rd president). They made sure Bush senior didn`t get a second term. His land-for-peace pressure in Palestine didn`t suit Israel. They were also against the young Bush because he was considered too close to oil interests and the Gulf countries. Bush senior and Jim Baker had raised $150 million for Bush junior, much of it from Mideast sources or their American go-betweens. Bush 41 and Baker, as private citizens, had also facilitated the new strategic relationship between Saudi Arabia and Iran. I have this from sources in both countries. So clearly the prospect of a Bush 43 was a potential danger to Israel.

Jews were stunned by the way Bush stole the election in Florida. They had put big money on Al Gore. Israel has given its imperialist guardian parent opportunities to turn disaster into a pretext for imposing an all-encompassing military, political and economic agenda to further the cause of global capitalism. While Colin Powell is cautious and others are reckless and want to make up for their failure to defeat Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War 10 years ago, the global agenda is the same.

Israel knows it has a short shelf-life before it is overwhelmed by demographics. It is a state that was born in terrorism that terrorized Palestinians into the exile of refugee camps, where they have now subsisted in squalid refugee camps, and is now very much afraid of Pakistan`s nuclear capability.

Israel has now handed the Bush family the opportunity it has been waiting for to consolidate America`s imperial grip on the Gulf and acquire control of the Caspian basin by extending its military presence in Central Asia. Bush conveniently overlooks -- or is not told -- the fact that Islamic fundamentalists got their big boost in the modern age as CIA assets in the covert campaign I was also involved with to force the Soviets out of Afghanistan. Bush senior was vice president during that entire campaign. And no sooner did he become president on Jan. 20, 1989, than he summoned an inter-agency intelligence meeting and issued an order, among several others, to clip the wings of ISI (Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence) that had been coordinating the entire operation in Afghanistan. I know this firsthand as I was DGISI at the time (director general, ISI).

Q: So how do you read U.S. strategy in Pakistan?

A: The destabilization of Pakistan is part of the U.S. plan because it is a Muslim nuclear state. The U.S. wants to isolate Pakistan from China as part of its containment policy. President Nixon`s book ``The Real War`` said China would be the superpower of the 21st Century. The U.S. is also creating hostility between Pakistan and Afghanistan, two Muslim states to reverse the perception that the Islamic world now has its own nuclear weapons. Bush 43 doesn`t realize he is being manipulated by people who understand geopolitics. He is not leading but being led. All he can do is think in terms of the wanted-dead-or-alive culture, which is how Hollywood conditions the masses to think and act.

All summer long we heard about America`s shrinking surplus and that the Pentagon would not have sufficient funds to modernize for the 21st century. And now, all of a sudden, the Pentagon can get what it wants without any Democratic Party opposition. How very convenient! Even your cherished civil liberties can now be abridged with impunity to protect the expansion of the hegemony of transnational capitalism. There is now a new excuse to crush anti-globalization protests.

Bush 43 follows Bush 41. Iraq was baited into the Kuwaiti trap when the U.S. told Saddam it was not interested in his inter-Arab squabbles. Two days later, he moved into Kuwait, which was an Iraqi province anyway before the British Empire decreed otherwise. Roosevelt baited the Pearl Harbor trap for the Japanese empire, which provided the pretext for entering World War II.

And now the Israelis have given the U.S. the pretext for further expansion into an area that will be critical in the next 25 years - the Caspian basin.

Q: Were you a fundamentalist in the days of the war against the Soviets in Afghanistan when you worked closely with the CIA?

A: Not as much as I am today.

Q: What turned you against America?

A: Betrayals and broken promises and what was done to my army career.

Q: And what was that?

A: President Ishaq Khan, who succeeded Zia ul-Haq after his plane was blown out of the sky, wanted to appoint me chief of staff, the highest position in the Pakistani army. The U.S., which by then had clipped ISI`s wings, also blocked my promotion by informing the president I was unacceptable. So I was moved to a corps commander position. As ISI director, I held the whole Mujahideen movement in the palm of my hands. We were all pro-American. But then America left us in the lurch and everything went to pieces, including Afghanistan.

The U.S. pushed for a broad-based Afghan government of seven factions and then waved goodbye. Even in the best of democracies, a broad-based coalition does not work. So we quickly had seven jokers in Kabul interested in only one thing - jockeying for power. The gunplay quickly followed, which led to the creation of Taliban, the students of the original Mujahideen, who decided to put an end to it.

Q: What happened to the 1,000 shoulder-fired Stinger anti-aircraft missiles that were supplied by president Reagan in 1986 and 87 to the Mujahideen, and that literally grounded the Soviet air force?

A: After the Soviets pulled out, the CIA allocated $60 million to try to buy them back. This just drove the black market price up for one Stinger from $100,000 to $300,000. The Taliban still have about 250 of them for the kind of situation they face today against U.S. aircraft.

Q: Is the U.S. now your enemy?

A: Is the U.S. national interest in contradiction with the Muslim world? The U.S. needs oil, as do its European allies. You have between 6 and 8 million American Muslims and their ranks are growing. About the same number in Europe. Israel aside, we are America`s natural allies. Prof. Sam Huntington in his ``Clash of Civilizations`` puts Confucius and Judeo-Christians in one corner, and us in the other. His prescription is wrong but is being adopted by Bush 43 who has now put 60 countries on his hit list. This is the diabolical school that wants to launch an anti-Muslim ``crusade.`` Muslims understood what Bush meant when he used that word.

We need a meeting, not a clash, of civilizations. We are on the brink of disaster. It is time to pull back from the brink and reassess before we blow ourselves up. The purpose of Islam is service to humanity. The time for like-minded people to have a meeting of the minds is now.

Q: But you are against democracy, so how can there be a meeting of the minds?

A: Democracy does not work. Politicians are constantly thinking of their next election, not the public good, which means, at best, constantly shading the truth to hide it from their constituents. Their pronouncements are laced with lies and the voters are lulled or gulled into believing utter nonsense. The Koran says call a spade a spade. It is the supreme law and tells right from wrong. There is no notion of ``my country right or wrong`` under divine law. The creator`s will predominates. All if subservient to Allah`s will and adherence to a set of basic, fundamental values.

Q: So what kind of a system are you advocating?

A: The world needs a post-modern state system. Right now, the nation-state and round the clock satellite TV lead people to imitate America`s way of life. Which is mathematically impossible. You have 4 percent of the world`s population consuming 32 percent of the world`s resources. The creator through Prophet Mohammed said equal distribution. Capitalism is the negation of the creator`s will. It leads to imperialism and unilateralism.

Q: So what does this post-modern state system look like?

A: A global village under divine order, or we will have global bloodshed until good triumphs over evil. Islam encapsulates all the principal religions and what was handed down 1,400 years ago was the normal evolutionary sequel to Judaism and Christianity. The prophet`s last sermon was a universal document of human rights for everyone that surpasses everything that came since, including America`s declaration of independence and the U.N. Charter of universal rights. If you superimpose true secular values on true Islamic values, there is no difference. So surely divine law should supersede man-made law. Islam is egalitarian, tolerant and progressive. It is the wave of the future.

Q: Marxism also believed that the nation-state would eventually wither away.

A: Socialism jumped the rails when it was co-opted by the imperialist Soviet state. Islam believes in dynamism, Christianity stands for static statism. The pope in all his pronouncements has expressed a dogmatic attachment to the status quo. Why are so many black Americans converting to Islam? Because they are looking for true equality which they cannot find under capitalism. Allah has no gender, neither male nor female. Islam has no indirect taxation in an interest-free economy. Usury was a Jewish concept.

Q: Is Iran your model?

A: There isn`t a single true Islamic state in the world today. Iran has moved forward from its 1979 revolution, but I am not sure whether it`s the right direction.

Q: And Taliban?

A: They represent Islam in its purest form so far. It`s a clean sheet. And they were also moving in the right direction when this crisis was cooked up by the U.S. Until Sept. 11, they had perfect law and order with no formal police force, only traffic cops without sidearms. Now, in less than two weeks, they have mobilized some 300,000 volunteers to fight American and British invaders if they come.

Q: And your reaction to U.S. demands on Pakistan?

A: If Pakistan gives the U.S. base rights we will have a national upheaval. And if the U.S. attacks Afghanistan, there will be a call -- a fatwa -- for a general jihad. All borders will then disappear and it will be a no-holds-barred Islamic uprising against Israel and American imperialism. Pakistan will be engulfed in the firestorm. So I can only hope that cooler heads will prevail in Washington.

Q: What about the other U.S. demands?

A: Overflight rights are meaningless since the U.S. violates air space daily all over the world. As for intelligence sharing with ISI, you can`t even catch your own terrorists. And what ISI gives you will be of marginal value anyway.

Q: President (Pervez) Musharraf has made strong statements supporting the U.S.

A: He was my student in the army. He is a good man, but he doesn`t understand Islam. The army will never fight the masses. If push comes to shove, Musharraf will say no to the Americans rather than turn against the people. He is not just facing a handful of angry people. By his own admission, it`s 10 percent to 15 percent of the population, or at least 10 million people willing to fight. For openers, they would close the port of Karachi. A country cannot breathe without lungs.

Q: Back to Osama`s terrorist network. Who was behind the bombing of the U.S. Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya?

A: Mossad is strong in both countries. Remember the Israeli operation to free hostages in Entebbe (Uganda)? Both Kenya and Tanzania were part of the logistical tail. A so-called associate of Osama was framed at Karachi airport. The incidents took place on Aug. 8, 1999, and on the 10th a short, clean-shaven man disembarks at Karachi airport and presents the passport of a bearded man. Not your passport, he was told. He then tries to bribe the clerk with 200 rupees. A ludicrously small sum given the circumstances. The clerk says no and turns him in and he starts singing right away. Not plausible. Osama has sworn to me on the Koran it was not him and he is truthful to a fault. Pious Muslims do not kill innocent civilians who included many Muslim victims. The passport must have been switched while the man was asleep on the plane in what has all the earmarks of a Mossad operation. For 10 years, the Mujahideen fought the Soviets in Afghanistan and not a single Soviet embassy was touched anywhere in the world. So this could not have been Osama`s followers.

Q: What if bin Laden has been lying to you and is guilty. Is that inconceivable?

A: If Taliban are given irrefutable evidence of his guilt, I am in favor of a fair trial. In America, one is entitled to a jury of peers. But he has no American peers. The Taliban would not object, in the event of a prima face case, to an international Islamic court meeting in The Hague. They would turn extradite Osama to the Netherlands.



End of transcript: UPI United Press International, Sep. 26, 2001, Interview with General Gul

__________________________________________________

A very good, straight-forward and no-nonsense piece from you Zehra. I agree with you, one has to work hard to not become a part of the viscious cycle of fear and hate.

I hope your Mom can feel like herself again soon, Inshallah. Semiprecious is right, don`t let her become an isolationist. Tell her to go out, and just stare back at the losers. Don`t let them stop her from living her life.

Regards,

Kiran

RSexan #15: ``all those chaptas are just waiting with open arms for hoardes of pakis to show up...put a lampshade on your head, stain your teeth brown with soy sauce, and slip into your favorite chairman mao t-shirt...``

No country ever, ``waits`` for anyone to come in. It is economics that dictates it. Do you really think the US was, ``waiting`` for you, or other Indians to come into it? Do you specifically think they would prefer you over one of their own? Yet you are here. I assume you were not give a personal invitation by the US President. You probably applied/begged for visas and green cards, etc., like the rest of us. If the Americans did not need your skills, do you really think they would have let you into their country? I doubt it.

The same thing is going to happen with China. The Chinese economy is already half the size of the US economy. In twenty to twenty five years it will be bigger than the US economy. And nearly five times its current size of 5 trillion dollars. China is going to need skilled manpower, seaports, etc. just like the US needs them now. Added to this, it will need land to grow crops for its giant population. And many other things, for which it is looking towards Pakistan. Now, it is upto Pakistan to bring itself to a point where it can accomodate China.

There has been a significant and wise change in Pakistan policy towards China. Did you notice the reception Musharraf just received in China. This kind of reception is reserved for Presidents of countries like the US. Pakistan`s relations with China are now moving beyond military relations, and centralizing around economic ties. China is building a port in Gwadar. It needs it to ship its goods, through the Arabian Sea. China, I believe, imports $250 billion of goods, but Pakistan barely has $1 billion of that share. It is giving more and more access to Pakistan for its products. Pakistan and China have been and are jointly building their military aircraft, equipment etc. Every station I was posted to used to have a group of Chinese Engineers. Musharraf has also stated he will not support the state of East Turkmenastan (this was the only potential thorn between China and Pakistan).

Infact, most of Pakistan`s military engineers now go to China, and not to the US (like they used to) for projects. Pretty soon, most of Pakistan`s civilian students will start going there, as well. Primarily because the US will continue to ally itself more with India, and because the US has already started putting restrictions on Muslim students. And because it is way too expensive to go to the US. Also, as the Chinese economy grows and it becomes wealthier, they will automatically attract people from other countries as professionals. Pakistan should try to get a major chunk of this share (just like India got a major chunk of the labor shortage in Silicon Valley). And it is much easier for Pakistani to take the Karakoram highway to China, then it is to fly to the USA.

So Pakistanis will end up in China, just like you ended up in the USA. The Americans were not, ``waiting`` for you to come in. But you got rid of your Kualapuri chappal, your pale yellow dress shirt, and grey flannel dress pants, and started wearing Levis and a cowboy hat. Similarly Pakistanis will get rid of thier Shalwar Kameez, and end up wearing lampshades and start using soy sauce (chinese food is very popular in Pakistan, already), while they are in China. The laws of economics will dictate it.

harimau #18: ``I suppose China is severely underpopulated and will need to import labor from Pakistan in 15-20 years....But if you guys have 4 wives each, I don`t think you can afford to send any women to China either.``

The first part of your statement is a legitimate enquiry. The second part is apparently an offensive attempt. Why do Indians combine legtimate questions with offensive ones, all the time? That is a question only Indians can answer. However, India does claim to have the second largest Muslim population in the world. I know you do not care much for Pakistanis, but don`t you think you offend Indian Muslims by such remarks. This to me is an indication of the importance Muslims have in your society.

Now to your legitimate question. China is obviously not severly underpopulated, at the moment. However, neither are the European nations or the US, for that matter. Yet these countries have been importing skilled labor for decades, and are actually increasing the imports, and not decreasing it (not counting the current temporary dot com bust).

83 countries in the world either already have a negative rate of population growth, or will have one soon. China is on top of that list. Infact the population of the world will peak in 2070, and then decrease. A super booming (not just booming, but super booming) economy like the Chinese, will never be able to keep pace in the skills dept. There will be a big shortage of highly skilled labor in China. Just like every unemployed American cannot do a Ph.D., neither can every unemployed Chinese.

Also, as a country grows wealthier, it starts to use its education institutions as a source of wealth generation. The US has mastered this art. It attracts the best and brightest of the rest of the world (people like our good friend RSexana), and keeps them. China will be no different. Pakistani students will be attracted to those universities, since it will be much cheaper than going to the US. And (hopefully) there will so many Pakistani-Chinese joint ventures that they will be accomodated easily on either side of the border. China is going to need well educated people who are fluent in English, South Asian languages (and Chinese). The best sources are India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. And one has to assume Pakistan would be the number one choice.

One example is the Chinese-Pakistani cooperation in military development. Pakistani military now has completely shifted from US hardware to Chinese hardware, with US electrical systems. It is co-developing its equipment jointly with China. And has some major successes. This is far cheaper than buying it from the US, and there is no spare parts problem. Also it results in indigenous development, and a technology transfer. Pakistani engineers regularly go to China, get trained there, and live there to work on these on-going projects. China in return gets expertise on Western systems from Pakistan`s experience, which it currently lacks. The bigger Pakistan`s infrastructure gets, the bigger these projects will become. Go to any PAF base and you will find a group of Chinese engineers permanently stationed there.

Why wouldn`t a similar phenomenon occur in the private sector, as China`s economy get bigger, and if Pakistan can start stablizing its economy?

I suspect that hijab covered women in the US enjoy the role of the tragic heroine they took upon themselves after 9/11. Trouble is: they must know deep down that no one really pays any attention to them in the US...people have more useful things to do with their lives in progressive societies (jobs, vacations, hobbies, and so forth) than worry about how some stranger on a street is dressed...

Zehra:

I am afraid you are being too dramatic here for your own good. There have been incidents of questioning muslims by the FBI and the police but in most cases the questioning has been well-justified and conducted cordially. People are not staring at you in the subway or on the sidewalks either. If they are, its probably because you are wearing socks(or other habiliments) that are mistmatched than anything else. Life goes on. And please stop wondering like most New Yorkers about how bad the midwest is. It is doing just fine.

later

-sac(A diehard New Yorker)

P.S: username,Zafar Al Talib and other Girl Friday haters: Very simple balm for your affliction.......Don`t read it. If that doesn`t work how about chewing on this. A xxxxxxx is someone who is always thinking there is someone else out there who is always having more fun than he is.

A very good, straight-forward and no-nonsense piece from you Zehra. I agree with you, one has to work hard to not become a part of the viscious cycle of fear and hate.

I hope your Mom can feel like herself again soon, Inshallah. Semiprecious is right, don`t let her become an isolationist. Tell her to go out, and just stare back at the losers. Don`t let them stop her from living her life.

Regards,

Kiran

re: hamzad afaqui sahib

Afaqui Sahib, This once brilliant cavalry officer seems to have lost his marbles.

re: romair (us-canada analogy)

Some people in the past have even suggested India to have the role of U.S. (I know its a joke) but has been suggested nonetheless - If we have to be someone`s canada why not stick with U.S. by making proper changes (for starters open an embassy in Tel Aviv - that should take care of most of our PR problems right away) They say, goo khaNRa tay wadda khao - chiRi da kha kay ki kar so.

re: studebaker (sikhs)

I don`t agree with you!

Ref 12-headed-beagle #: 33

[all society is not misogynist as the hindian]

China is. You don`t have to try to whitewash the Chinese. At least in India you can try for more children if the first is a girl. In China you can`t.

rjanjua---43

janjua sahib,

I tend to agree with you.In fact I wonder if he really had any,marbles,that is.

You see it is important to know the views of the guy who was in the thick of it once.This also helps us to understand the mind of our military folks who in no uncertain terms try to convince us of their `discipline` & `traditions`(whatever that means).

What totally put me off was that his beef with the US was simply because he was not made the COAS because of US dispproval.Doesn`t that make one laugh & cry at the same time? So is that the whole purpose of life?No wonder we are in the gutter.I`m sure the other army(non-army)types are no different.As if the whole purpose of the war was to make sure that someone gets some position.Like that villager who thought that the whole mela was orchestrated to enable someone to steal his handkerchief(i hope you know the story)

The purpose to post such stuff here is to hear out all sides,alternates too,esp. the alterntates because they are being blacked out.They do provide a perspective and sometimes one can glean valuable insights.

Fatima,

Pakistan is a modern country, it has a constitution made in 1971, but still the Lahore high court found honour killing as legitimate. In the office of Asma Jahangir a young woman was killed by her own parents henchmen. No one, not even a single person was arrested, even though there were eye witnesses to the murder, simply because it would be illegal to arrest a person for honour killing. That is the law of the land called pakillstan, where killing is a way of life. Tell me fatima is it not the law of seventh century, has anything in pakistan changed since then.

regards and best wishes for your eyes to open.

jay

re: Romair

Brevity has never been your forte. Let me give you a lesson in it.

a) Indians were given visas because they offered a specific skill that someone in the US wanted (i.e. Bill Gates). Indians speak this language called English, and most graduate schools recognize IIT as much as Harvard.

b) What skills are Pukistanis going to bring chaptas? Jihad? And from which recognized educational institution? And are your madrassahs in Pakistan now teaching Chinese in addition to suicide bombing? Or is China making Urdu a second official language? Or does China not have enough people that Abdul, Zia, and Karim from Pakistan have to head over?

Indian Foriegn Minister complained that Musharaf`s usage of the words ``arrogant`` and ``kneejerk reaction`` is uncivilized barrack talk. He recalled that while he served with Women`s Gaurd, they never used words like these.

``A final response to Pakistan will be taken after Christmas when the cabinet committee meets again,`` Singh told reporters after emerging from a two-hour meeting held at the Indian premier`s residence.`` All options are open he added - from ``surgical strikes`` to recalling the Deputy of the Deputy High Commissioner to beating Pakistani embassy staffers in New Dehli.

Washington Post reporter R. Chanderashekar reported, quoting unnamed officials that India just wants to maintain a posture of ``warmongering`` in hope that chachas Bush and Blair will exert pressure on Pakis. The offcial on the condition of anonymity said ``now that we have created all this fuss of moving the forces again to the border, hopefully chacha bush will take care of musharaf the way chacha clinton dealt with mian sahib``.

In a related story, the Indian foreign ministry announced that it will open four consulates in Afghanistan. Newly appointed counselor R. Saxena arrived in Kabul and while talking to reporters commented that his country will do everything to help Afghans. He was especially delighted at the way he was mishandled at the airport by Deputy Afghan Security Dir. Mr. Speen Gul.

Zahra I think you will be quite able to answer some of my queries. I had similar assumptions about me being protected by laws and stuff... I really believed when Tony Blair appeared on the tele and said ``its not a war against Muslims`` but guess what happened next day I got a call from my Bank and they told me that the US banks want to have all the details of my bank account and this is a must since the money transfer I had requested to a relatives account in Pakistan will not be possible without the details.

Now i tried to recall the money but then it dawned on me that the money I tried to tranfer is practically frozen it can nither mover forward or back to UK. I did send my bank details to the destination and it took them 2 weeks to process them. A friend of mine (non-Pakistani) transfered some to his family in Sri Lanka the same day through the same banks they were not INTERCEPTED (I wonder why?)

I take the same journey to my office never in my life was I looked at as someone different but ever since Sept 11 it has been many times on the train ride back home that I have seen and heard some racist remarks directed to me... I donot blame them for what the think since many factors lead to this behaviour and now a days un-employment is a major factor as well...

however i do agree with who ever said that we do need to educate others and ourselves too about our religion and honestly i do feel that after Sept 11 a lot of educated people are intrested in Islam both Muslims and non-muslims....

In these troubled times I do see a glimmer of Hope and I am still positive.

sac Reply #: 40

``P.S: username,Zafar Al Talib and other Girl Friday haters: Very simple balm for your affliction.......Don`t read it. If that doesn`t work how about chewing on this. A xxxxxxx is someone who is always thinking there is someone else out there who is always having more fun than he is``.

Dear sac

fyi, I`ve already tried not reading it. But I can`t resist (just like I can`t stop watching CNN!), although I know for sure that I`ll only end up feeling like sh1t. Then why do I read it? Because kabootar ki tarah aankhen band kerna is not in me. As long as it`s there, it`s THERE and I gotta read it. If they have the right to print it, then I have the right to complain. That is the very reason why this ``letters to Ed`` thingie is there in every good journal/magazine/newspaper. And even if it falls on deaf ears... well too bad but that doesnt mean if they are not doing their job, I should`nt do mine. Simply not reading it is gonna do no good to no one. I know for a fact that so many from the middle class read this crap and fall victims to inferiority complex. The only problem in the world Ms Aaminah Haq seems to be facing is to ``have an appropriate `shallu` to wear`` while 5 million ppl on our western border are starving to death right now. Did you read ``We, the fake`` on Chowk? I cud so relate to it as all my life, I`ve hung around on the streets of lahore, from zouk to freddys to cuckoos and at the bottom of my heart, all my life I`ve felt like an a$$hole! Sorry to disagree, but I think a xxxxxxx is someone who has always had the best of both the worlds, without even giving a thought to those who are made to take sh1t from this cruel world everyday! I know I`m rambling on and on but I feel like crap when I go back home and see sights like 4 girls covered in dupattas all over, packed on the back seat of an alto --- those eyes looking at you are so full of mehroomi --- it just breaks me apart from within. And to top it off, we give them ``girl friday`` to read :-(

By the way, ppl DO listen sometimes!

Subject : Re

Date : Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:24:13 -0500



Reply Reply All Forward Delete



Dear * * * * * *:

Thank you for your message. We would like to print it as a letter in the next

magazine if that is agreeable to you.

Looking back on this, I chose the photo because, in some way, I saw it as an

illustration of the huge barriers to understanding that suddenly faced the

majority of Americans. I do agree that the image could be viewed as

stereotypical, and an accompanying caption might have explained this, saying

that some are unable to see the reality of the Muslim world because they are

kept in the dark by their own lack of knowledge. That was one of the challenges

put forth by the article that called for an immediate shift in

thinking and an openness to the truth.

Sincerely,

Original message follows:

Dear Editor

I got a chance to skim through the latest issue of your magazine. On page 2, I read and totally agreed with Duer McLanahan RT (letters etc.) who wrote that the magazine ``is very informative, well-written, has splendid photos...``. I moved on to ``Acts of hatred, or acts of love?`` (Search for understanding) and while it talked about avoiding generalizations and stereotypes, I was disappointed to see the accompanying photograph of five veiled women (page 13). I would very respectfully like to point out that a MAJORITY of Muslim women in progressive Islamic countries do not dress up in this manner. The photograph totally negated the spirit of the article and was, at best, out of place and less than ``splendid``.

Sincerely,

Rjanjua #43: ``If we have to be someone`s canada why not stick with U.S. by making proper changes)``

I agree with you, on this one. However, I don`t think what you have said is possible.

If we can be the USA`s Canada, then there is nothing like it. I think we should be the whole world`s Canada, or at least the whole world`s Mexico, if we can be.

However, it takes two to tango (taali do hathon say bajti hay). We can only become the USA`s Canada (or Mexico) if it wants us to, and if we can. The US neither wants us to, nor can we. There are far far too many countries that are way ahead on the list, as far as the US is concerned (India being one of them). It should now be clear to everyone in Pakistan, that despite our great desires to be America`s favorite Mexico, the US isn`t too interested in us. And it is nearly impossible for us to have Canada-like economic ties with a country that is geographically literally on the other side of the world.

China on the other hand is a completely different ball game. It is an economy already half the size of the US, that imports $250 billion a year. We have built a joint highway connecting us together. And are builiding a pretty big port together. Our military ties are much stronger than anyone realizes. All of Pakistan`s (and much of China`s future military hardware) will be jointly built together. We have nuclear ties. We have a common enemy in India. Our views on nearly all international issues are similar.

And we have a lot to offer China. Things like a port to the Arabian Sea. Land to grow crops. Access to Western military technology. And hopefully someday highly skilled labor to augment their booming economy. Not to mention, being an ally against India. And most of all, we are geographically right next to each other. That is the primary requirement in becoming a Canada.

If the predictions are correct, then China`s economy will be five times its current size in twenty five years. Lets say their imports go to $1.25 trillion, during that time. If Pakistan can just get even 40 to 50 billion (around 3% to 4%) of this market share, in the next twenty five years, imagine what it would do to Pakistan`s economy.

The biggest factor is that despite any kind of govt. Pakistan has had, there are two countries which have been solid allies; one is China and the other is Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia I don`t care for much, but China I have a lot of respect for. It will an equivalent superpower to the US (if not bigger superpower) within our lifetimes. I think we need to get into it like the Israelis (or Canadians) have gotten into the USA. And I think the current govt. is making all the right moves. Looking east towards China is Pakistan`s new economic policy. And I know for a fact, it is the military engineering policy.

``(for starters open an embassy in Tel Aviv - that should take care of most of our PR problems right away``

I (and AI) consider Israel, one of the biggest violators of human rights and UN resolutions in the world. Infact, Ariel Sharon is currently being tried in Belgium by Amnesty International. However, I think it is about time the Muslim world became realistic and accepted Israel. Israel is obviously not going to disappear from the map of the world. The moment Israel agrees to a viable Palestine state, I think Pakistan should be the first to set up an embassy in Israel. Before then, would cause a lot of problems, within Pakistan. The Israeli military has a lot of respect for Pakistanis. Primarily because Pakistanis pilots are the only pilots in the world, who have kicked Isreali butt in air combat. The Israelis understand this, as well. Friendship with Israel would solve a lot of Pakistan`s PR problems, as you have stated. However, I don`t think it would make us the USA`s Canada or Mexico. While we may give the US a lot of importance, to the US we are just another of the 200 or so countries in the world. It is about time we accepted this fact.

semipreciousme #35: What happened to that girl/lady is an off-shoot of the feudal/tribal mentality of Pakistan. This is why I have always stated that feudalism/tribalism has to be removed from Pakistan, in any sort or form; even if it has to be done by force.

I think the govt. is taking quite aggressive action in this case. That is to be commended. It has become a national issue, and everyone wants the culprits punished. The Supreme Court and the ministers are personally involved. This is a good sign. I cannot recall this happening on any such case, previously.

Luckily (if that word can be used here), the criminals weren`t powerful feudals (although they maybe operating under the umbrella of powerful feudals/tribals). Had that been the case, then it would have been more difficult to take action against them.

Although this is an extreme case, I am somewhat surprised that people are so shocked over it. Anyone, like myself, who has had the opportunity to live in remote parts of Pakistan (I spent quite a bit of time stationed in rural Punjab) has seen the plight of the average villager, under the control of the feudals and landowner and his henchmen. It is quite disgusting. These people appoint their own favorite inspectors, assistant commissioners etc. to their areas. They are themselves MPAs, MNAs etc. And anyone who can hang onto their coattails, under their protection, can do anything they want, i.e. they can get away literally with murder and rape.

All of this starts from the top, i.e. political power, and trickles downhill to attitudes which reek with tribalism and feudalism. I am absolutely convinced that this mentality cannot be removed at the grassroots level, unless it is removed at the top political levels.

The next time people support Ivy league educated feudals/tribals for National Assembly seats, they should think about what happens in the lands these people own, and think about this girl/lady (I just read on the Internet that she maybe 30 years old).

I think only one of the rapists has been caught. The other three are on the lose. I can`t imagine any of the decisions (like the ones given by this tribal jury) could have been made, had they not felt they enjoyed the protection of the higher-ups (tribal leaders/feudals).

This incident, in a nutshell, represents everything that is wrong with the tribal/feudal mentality in Pakistan. Had there been a feudal govt. in Pakistan, this would have been swept under the carpet. After all, this isn`t the first time, something like this has happened.

hamzad #41: Gen Hamid Gul and Gen Aslam Beg are two very interesting figures, alongwith Gen Javed Nasir. All three of them seem to have gone through a transformation, somewhere in their lives, going from one side to another.

If the grapevine is correct, Javed Nasir used to be one of the most famous party animals of the Army. He now has a long beard, and has become a born again Mujahid, of some sort. Hamid Gul was given a piece of the Berlin Wall, for helping break down the evil Soviet Empire. Now he is turned into a different person. Aslam Beg used to be quite a reasonable person, as well. However, he got transformed somewhere along the line, also.

I would place these guys (at least Gul and Beg) at the opposite end of the spectrum from Generals like Musharraf and Karamat, in terms of balance. You will rarely, if ever, see Karamat or Musharraf, or many others, make unnecessary statements.

Somewhere along the line, close to retirement, I have noticed some Generals go through a transformation. As they realize they are about to become common citizens, and about to lose the immense powers they have as Lt. Generals, they are unable to cope with it. They make feeble attempts to stay in the limelight, not through achievements in the civilian sector, but through controversial statements based on their previous career. These guys need to learn to gracefully fade away into the sunset, rather than creating controversies for Pakistan, through irrational statements (which most of them rarely made when they were in the Army; except for Beg`s desire to join with Saddam Hussein against the Saudis in the Gulf War), like support for Mullah Umar and declaring the WTC bombing a Isreali conspiracy (the Israelis kill a lot of innocent civilians, but they would never kill Americans).

Retiring for the military, and stepping into civilian life, can be a traumatic change of socieites. Unfortunately, some people are unable to handle it, and make successful civilian careers. Luckily they are an exception, and not the norm.

re: romair (israel)

I believe in a policy of engagement. Friends are more likely to listen than percieved enemies. All Israelis are not like Sharon - There is almost a fifty-fifty split between hardliners and moderates. Opening up diplomatic relations can only help the Palestinians. It has taken 50 years to make this clear to thick-skulled arabs, that Israelis are here to stay. Normailsing relation would make it even clearer for those who are still delusional.

re: romair (israel)

I believe in a policy of engagement. Friends are more likely to listen than percieved enemies. All Israelis are not like Sharon - There is almost a fifty-fifty split between hardliners and moderates. Opening up diplomatic relations can only help the Palestinians. It has taken 50 years to make this clear to thick-skulled arabs, that Israelis are here to stay. Normailsing relation would make it even clearer for those who are still delusional.

p.s. You ofcourse make a whole lotta sense on your China argument - And I am sure Pakistan will stick with China, simply because they are reliable.

harimou:

``The only thing China will need to import are women. Their male to female ratio is severely skewed due to selective abortion. But if you guys have 4 wives each, I don`t think you can afford to send any women to China either.``

...and at the rate female children are being killed due to selective abortion in india, neither will you....now what will the chinese do?...

rajanjua

``Indian Foriegn Minister complained that Musharaf`s usage of the words ``arrogant`` and ``kneejerk reaction`` is uncivilized barrack talk. He recalled that while he served with Women`s Gaurd, they never used words like these.``

....speaking of the women`s guard, there was this really annoying indian gov`t spokeswoman on cnn last night...when the presenter asked her why they don`t just show their proof to the pak gov`t because musharraf had promised he would take strice action against the groups involved...her answer?...hem...haw....hem....we`ve already shown the proof to friendly countries...france, uk, usa..hem....haw....no need to show it to pak...hem....haw....hem...great....so they won`t accept any interfernce in the kashmir matter....but at times like this, will turn to everyone, except the country they have to deal with...even the presenter had a hard time keeping a straight face.....

re: romair

{{China I have a lot of respect for. It will an equivalent superpower to the US (if not bigger superpower) within our lifetimes.}}

...once the chaptas have learned a thing or two about democracry and individual liberty, the two basic elements for true original thinking and invention to take place in a society, then the US can start to worry about chaptas becoming a bigger superpower...until then chaptas will remain busy beating up and throwing beggars off the streets of beijing to make it look pretty for the olympics...

all, thanks for reading..i appreciate the comments.

this is not my title...i don`t have a title for it yet.

anny. wow..what a compliment..i had no idea you felt this way. this is a work in progress. i am having a hard time trying to get everything into it...still working on it. send more some substancial critique of the work to me so that i can improve on it. (fatimazehrarizvi@hotmail.com) thanks.

sac and others who are talking about self flagellations and are obviosuly not reading the piece properly: im not being persecuted. i dont feel persecuted. im talking about immigrant families that are comming from a background where they expect a sort of persecution. im talking about their mental state. read it again.

anyway, thanks all.

z.rizvi.

It was a good thing to block entry of Arafat to Bethleheim.

From LeMonde,France---excerpt,translated.24/12/2001

WORTH READING.

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``(...) Hamid Karzai, who is as comfortable discussing sitting on a carpet as in a Washinton or London ``salon``, has a profound knowledge of the western world. After Kaboul and India, where he has studied law, he completed his learnings [apprenticeship ?] in the USA, where he acted, for a while, as a consultant for the American oil company Unocal, at the time it was considering building a pipeline in Afghanistan. (...)``

__________________________________________________

IT`S ALL ABOUT OIL!

From The Congressional Record. Emphasis added by the web master.

U.S. INTERESTS IN THE CENTRAL ASIAN

REPUBLICS HEARING BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON ASIA AND THE PACIFIC

OF THE COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL

RELATIONS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED FIFTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION

FEBRUARY 12, 1998

Next we would like to hear from Mr. John J. Maresca, vice president of international relations, Unocal Corporation. You may proceed as you wish.

STATEMENT OF JOHN J. MARESCA, VICE

PRESIDENT OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, UNOCAL CORPORATION

Mr. Maresca. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It`s nice to see you again. I am John Maresca, vice president for international relations of the Unocal Corporation. Unocal, as you know, is one of the world`s leading energy resource and project development companies. I appreciate your invitation to speak here today. I believe these hearings are important and timely. I congratulate you for focusing on Central Asia oil and gas reserves and the role they play in shaping U.S. policy.

I would like to focus today on three issues. First, the need for multiple pipeline routes for Central Asian oil and gas resources. Second, the need for U.S. support for international and regional efforts to achieve balanced and lasting political settlements to the conflicts in the region, including Afghanistan. Third, the need for structured assistance to encourage economic reforms and the development of appropriate investment climates in the region. In this regard, we specifically support repeal or removal of section 907 of the Freedom Support Act.

Mr. Chairman, the Caspian region contains tremendous untapped hydrocarbon reserves. Just to give an idea of the scale, proven natural gas reserves equal more than 236 trillion cubic feet. The region`s total oil reserves may well reach more than 60 billion barrels of oil. Some estimates are as high as 200 billion barrels. In 1995, the region was producing only 870,000 barrels per day. By 2010, western companies could increase production to about 4.5 million barrels a day, an increase of more than 500 percent in only 15 years. If this occurs, the region would represent about 5 percent of the world`s total oil production.

One major problem has yet to be resolved: how to get the region`s vast energy resources to the markets where they are needed. Central Asia is isolated. Their natural resources are land locked, both geographically and politically. Each of the countries in the Caucasus and Central Asia faces difficult political challenges. Some have unsettled wars or latent conflicts. Others have evolving systems where the laws and even the courts are dynamic and changing. In addition, a chief technical obstacle which we in the industry face in transporting oil is the region`s existing pipeline infrastructure.

Because the region`s pipelines were constructed during the Moscow-centered Soviet period, they tend to head north and west toward Russia. There are no connections to the south and east. But Russia is currently unlikely to absorb large new quantities of foreign oil. It`s unlikely to be a significant market for new energy in the next decade. It lacks the capacity to deliver it to other markets.

Two major infrastructure projects are seeking to meet the need for additional export capacity. One, under the aegis of the Caspian Pipeline Consortium, plans to build a pipeline west from the northern Caspian to the Russian Black Sea port of Novorossiysk. Oil would then go by tanker through the Bosporus to the Mediterranean and world markets.

The other project is sponsored by the Azerbaijan International Operating Company, a consortium of 11 foreign oil companies, including four American companies, Unocal, Amoco, Exxon and Pennzoil. This consortium conceives of two possible routes, one line would angle north and cross the north Caucasus to Novorossiysk. The other route would cross Georgia to a shipping terminal on the Black Sea. This second route could be extended west and south across Turkey to the Mediterranean port of Ceyhan.

But even if both pipelines were built, they would not have enough total capacity to transport all the oil expected to flow from the region in the future. Nor would they have the capability to move it to the right markets. Other export pipelines must be built.

At Unocal, we believe that the central factor in planning these pipelines should be the location of the future energy markets that are most likely to need these new supplies. Western Europe, Central and Eastern Europe, and the Newly Independent States of the former Soviet Union are all slow growth markets where demand will grow at only a half a percent to perhaps 1.2 percent per year during the period 1995 to 2010.

Asia is a different story all together. It will have a rapidly increasing energy consumption need. Prior to the recent turbulence in the Asian Pacific economies, we at Unocal anticipated that this region`s demand for oil would almost double by 2010. Although the short-term increase in demand will probably not meet these expectations, we stand behind our long-term estimates.

I should note that it is in everyone`s interest that there be adequate supplies for Asia`s increasing energy requirements. If Asia`s energy needs are not satisfied, they will simply put pressure on all world markets, driving prices upwards everywhere.

The key question then is how the energy resources of Central Asia can be made available to nearby Asian markets. There are two possible solutions, with several variations. One option is to go east across China, but this would mean constructing a pipeline of more than 3,000 kilometers just to reach Central China. In addition, there would have to be a 2,000-kilometer connection to reach the main population centers along the coast. The question then is what will be the cost of transporting oil through this pipeline, and what would be the netback which the producers would receive.

For those who are not familiar with the terminology, the netback is the price which the producer receives for his oil or gas at the well head after all the transportation costs have been deducted. So it`s the price he receives for the oil he produces at the well head.

The second option is to build a pipeline south from Central Asia to the Indian Ocean. One obvious route south would cross Iran, but this is foreclosed for American companies because of U.S. sanctions legislation. The only other possible route is across Afghanistan, which has of course its own unique challenges. The country has been involved in bitter warfare for almost two decades, and is still divided by civil war. From the outset, we have made it clear that construction of the pipeline we have proposed across Afghanistan could not begin until a recognized government is in place that has the confidence of governments, lenders, and our company.

Mr. Chairman, as you know, we have worked very closely with the University of Nebraska at Omaha in developing a training program for Afghanistan which will be open to both men and women, and which will operate in both parts of the country, the north and south.