Running Naked

re ROmair`s latest rantings:

I remember reading 5000 word scholarly treatises from the gentleman about why Pakistan should drastically shrink its conventional military capability and devote all its energies toward building a nuclear deterrence. Is there any shame left in him? I think not.

Pakistan is going down the drain just like Russia did after the cold war. Did nuclear weapons save it from imploding from within? A failed idealogy and a misplaced sense of priorities cannot be replaced by a bunch of nuclear toys. Its time the GI Joes realized the limits of their intelligence and allow power to be vested amongst the people of Pakistan.

later

-sac

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... ayaz amir, a normally sane person who seemed to be going off the rocker during the early days of the afghan crisis, is back on track ( i have always maintained that a person who drinks can be saved - those who think they are already saved are the ones we should worry about )

``Secondly, the army has to redefine its role in national life. Will it rule the roost and intervene at will in political matters or will it allow the political process to find its bearings over a period of time? True, politicians have made their mistakes and paid dearly for them. But it is the overbearing presence of the military which has retarded and distorted the political process.``

...... the fools in khaki with their military ambitions and penchant for new uniforms and staff-cars have brought us to the brink of disaster ....... this kashmir nonsense has been kept alive by the quarter master general and his minions so that they can continue to requisition the best real estate in town and build yet another army public school ........the pakistani public, ignorant starving fools that they are, has been fed on this hash of nationalism and islamism by none other than the unholy alliance of generals and muftis .... it is time for them to step out once and for all - back to the barracks to clean their rifles with phultrus and oil ......peeechay pher!

...... i think we will survive the present crisis, but i do think we are headed for another crisis in october when the army goes through with yet another sham election and makes a mockery out of democracy and a fool out of the miserable masses ......the clowns in red tape will continue to play ring-master and make a mess out of the three ring circus ...... regardless of what romair and other defenders of our men in khaki say, the army is just as corrupt as pwd and the lda - except they are more organized at looting and plundering...heck, they have even set up shell corporations like askari, shaheen, bharia and fauji to hide their ill-gotten gains .... and that is why they will not give it up to the politicians - it is not easy giving up the good life .......

....... as much as i hate the horrible hindoos and would love to see them all driven on to the monkey island whence they came, i still don`t think that kashmir and kashmiris are worth dying for ........ all the kashmiris i know seem to be perfectly happy selling carpets, fake pashminas and ugly little boxes with plastic inlays on canning road - they don`t seem to be in any hurry to return to sirinagar, why should we bother .......but then we also worry about the palestinians, chechnians, bosnians and muslim eskimos who are being denied halal blubber by the infidel canadian government ........

........ i wish i was chinese or bantu or a headhunter from new guniea - anything but a member of the delusional ummah

DullaBhatti # 66

Thanks for the detailed response. Let’s hope that there is some satisfactory solution to this terrorism problem and no one, on either side, has to suffer anymore.

Best regards.

…..whew…..talk about testosterone overdrive, BIG time….nuclear wars….annihilating countries….sheesh….what are you boys smoking?….for all the geniuses advocating nuclear war out there, i’m sure more than half are sitting safe and sound thousands of miles away…must you be shown the appalling and grisly pictures of the people of hiroshima and nagasaki to get it through your dense skulls and easily excitable brains?….the searing heat and radiation peeling off human skin …the pieces of charred bodies scattered about…the sterile and barren landscape bereft of even the remotest sign of life…is this what you want your people and your beautiful land to go through???….

Drat! I`m falling into the cut`n`paste mode as well ... Ah well - i`ll just put part of the article:

``Having ceased its sponsorship of the Taliban at Washington`s prompting, Islamabad is now being urged to abandon those who pursue jihad in Kashmir. Politically, that is a more risky venture than turning against the Taliban. But President Pervaiz Musharraf should not expect to do one without moving on to the other. The war against terrorism is indivisible.

That said, India cannot plausibly claim that it is the innocent victim in the current crisis. Its government of Kashmir has been autocratic and corrupt. It has consistently refused to allow the population of the state to determine through a plebiscite whether it wishes to remain within the union, join Pakistan or become independent. And the conduct of its security forces has on occasion been outrageous. It may be the world`s largest democracy, as Jack Straw told the BBC yesterday, but its treatment of Kashmir has been far from exemplary. The effect of that failure on relations with Pakistan was completely ignored in the Foreign Secretary`s interview.

Likewise, it is a bit rich to hear L K Advani, the Indian home minister, calling for a fight against fundamentalism. The Muslim variety may be the bete noire of the moment, but Mr Advani is a long-time standard bearer of its Hindu counterpart. It was his tub-thumping peregrination around India that culminated in the destruction of the Babri Mosque in Ayodhya in 1992, a notorious act of communal violence.

In the present crisis, Pakistan has a grave responsibility to prevent a war neither side wants. But the focus on combating Islamic radicalism should not blind the outside world to India`s shortcomings.``

Complete article at: http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2001/12/29/dl2902.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2001/12/29/ixopinion.html

It is time to make a difference between that fine madness and lunacy. I only know that we do not need a war, and survival is about needs, not whims. If only we had a say...

PS: For Indians based in India and everyone at the receiving end of mail from my country, I would like to point out that according to a recent report, the IB people are intercepting emails emanating from the country. And letters containing certain keywords -- the usual dreaded ones of organisations and countries -- will be watched.

Many of us will do so unthinkingly, especially those in the writing business or people who want a dialogue on sensitive issues. I find it disturbing and I do not know how such a huge operation will be managed. Personally I feel this is a ruse to gag the public voice. I do not know how a nation can be saved in this manner. I can only talk about my country since I do not know the position being adopted by the others in the region.

Peace begins with trust.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/gul.khan/main1.jpg

http://www3.sympatico.ca/gul.khan/main1.jpg

Ali1,

Among pakis only you seem to be taking the Indus Water Treaty issue seriously. I guess you`re the only pakistani who`s worried about how to wash his arse.

But look at the bright side. Soon the nation can start using rocks...a proud Arab tradition.

best regards,

Re: Romair

``...I hope Advani (I would like to say Vajpayee, but it seems like he is now just a figurehead) has considered all of these...``

You seem to be implying that Advani, not Vajpayee, is calling the shots in the Government. You could not be more wrong, and also simultaneously betray your lack of understanding of the position of the Prime Minister in a parliamentary form of government. Advani is unelectable as a head of a party or government. He knows it. So, do the pollsters. They recently gave Vajpayee a 56% popularity rating, and Advani figured at 7% (behind Sonia Gandhi, Chandrababa Naidu, and `Others`). The only saving grace was that Advani was ahead of the `Can`t Say` category:

http://www.the-week.com/21dec30/cover.htm

Re: Ayaz Amir in The Dawn

Ayaz is brilliant. His writing style is one of the most powerful. His wit unmatched. He seems to be independently reaching the same conclusion. This is what he writes in his latest piece:

``Today we find ourselves in a bizarre situation. The military cannot effectively manage national affairs on its own, all military strongmen having been disasters in one form or another. But repeated military interventions have turned politicians into pygmies, depriving them of the ability and confidence to shoulder national responsibilities. More than the waterlogging and salinity to hit our croplands, it is this desertification of politics which is our biggest problem.``

How close his diagnosis is to what Alexander Hamilton wrote in Federalist Paper No. 8 (1787) `The Consequences of Hostilities Between the States`:

``The perpetual menacings of danger oblige the government to be always prepared to

repel it; its armies must be numerous enough for instant defense. The continual necessity for their services enhances the importance of the soldier, and proportionably degrades the condition of the citizen. The military state becomes elevated above the civil. The inhabitants of territories, often the theatre of war, are unavoidably subjected to frequent infringements on their rights, which serve to weaken their sense of those rights; and by degrees the people are brought to consider the soldiery not only as their protectors, but as their superiors. The transition from this disposition to that of considering them masters, is neither remote nor difficult; but it is very difficult to prevail upon a people under such impressions, to make a bold or effectual resistance to usurpations supported by the military power.``

http://memory.loc.gov/const/fed/fed_08.html

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Re: Romair

``...Your biggest mistake has been your underestimation of Pakistan...``

No sir, we would never be caught doing that. Pakistan possesses nuclear weapons, and that packs a lot of punch. We are also concerned about what Khaled Ahmed writes in the latest issue of TFT:

``The state in Pakistan must march on to the realisation of the dogma it has embraced. In modern times, it is an extremist agenda. There is no way one can conceive that the Musharraf government will tackle it. The state must reach its terminal stage, like the state created by Mulla Umar. There is no institutionalised trend in Pakistan of learning from history or even taking lesson from the unfolding of the present.``

http://www.thefridaytimes.com/news9.htm

Re: Poonawala

``Question: is a chaotic mess next door what we really want?``

NO -- but we can`t want it more than Pakistanis themselves. They have it to want it more than us for their own sake. And if their chaotic mess is exported to our country, then we have to sit up and ask -- do we let it happen with the fear that doing anything to stop it will work even more against our interest, or do we `work` with them? We can `work` with them, if they realize that a chaotic mess is also not in their own (as well as our) best interest.

``Is it not in our interest to ensure the existence of a stable Pakistan? ``

YES -- but again, we cannot want it more than they themselves. They have to quit shooting themselves in the foot. No amount of our wanting to `ensure the existence of a stable Pakistan` would have stopped the ISI from stopping the Taleban and the Al Qaeda. They have to want it more than us.

War or, hopefully no war, India has already won the first round without actually going to war. Musharraf would not have taken even the cosmetic actions against LeT and JeM if not pushed by the moves made by India and brought USA to force Musharraf`s hand. He wanted proof from India but would not share it with Pakistani public the information provided indirectly by India through USA. He had done nothing to tell public about the role these organizations are playing in radicalization of society as a whole.

Not only India but any smart individual can understand the mind of Musharraf by now, very much like Saddam Hussain - in the sense that his every move is predictable. Most important thing for both of these leaders is to stay in power and stifle any opposition to their rule. India too understand the highly predictable and selfish mind of this former gorilla warfare specialist.

There was no reason to go to war on the basis of attack on the parliament alone. However, Idia realized that it can extract mileage from it. On the otherhand, Musharraf is least interested in war now that he holds all the power. He know it not because it is no-win situation for him but for the history of Indo-Pakistan wars. No government in Pakistan has ever survived the war and Musharraf will fall if there is another war. He wanted war, at Kargill because it provided him an opportunity to make NS government fall. At Agra summit, he refused to discuss anything without Kashmir and today he is ready to meet Indian PM without any agenda. India is unleashing actually economic warfare on him and can continue it through military pressure without going to full scale war. Musharraf will keep buckling under pressure slowly with or without US directing him to move in a particular direction. It is really the accumulation of past baggage, dictaorship and one-point agenda of keeping the power to himself at all costs that will keep hurting Pakistan for a while to come.

Why should people of Pakistan have any respect for him when he does not have any respect for their consensus. He knows as well as rest of the world know that he is trying to manipulate election in a way to get a favorable outcome for himself. He does not respect or trust the general mood of public in this regard. Well, in return public should show him the finger pointing upward.

There is only one victory under his belt and that is conquering Islamabad about two years ago.

Re: Romair

Re: Romair

``…So when people keep insisting they want to solve the problems bilaterally, without third-party mediation, I would like to know what they have been smoking…``

War and bilateral negotiations do not go hand-in-hand. War poisons any negotiations for a long, long time. When the atmosphere is right, enduring mutually-beneficial agreements can be reached (like the Indus Waters Treaty, 1960). Just read Najam Sethi`s editorial in last week`s TFT, where he criticizes past military dictatorships in Pakistan for rocking the boat and vitiating the atmosphere for bilateral negotiations (in `65, `71, `99, and for the past 10 years). Indo-Pak issues/problems can only be addressed through negotiations, and negotiations can only be conducted in an amiable atmosphere. The atmosphere, once vitiated, can take a long, long time to recreate.

``… India tried hard to destroy the remaining Pakistan…``

I think that this is where you are wrong. Plain wrong. If that were correct, then why (as you yourself pointed out Pakistan`s vulnerabilities since Partition onwards), did India not act? The only possibility that you admit is that India `blew it`, while not even considering the other possibility that perhaps India never wanted/wished it. You cite Bangladesh, but fail to consider that India acted ONLY after the refugee exodus of March `71 created an immense burden on India, and that prior to March `71, India did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to undermine Pakistani unity throughout the 6-year duration of Mujibur Rehman`s 6-point campaign leading to his electoral victory of `70. You also do not recognize that Yahya Khan shut the door for any political settlement in E. Bengal with the Awami League, while India has not done that either in J&K or with Pakistan. Even former PAF Air Marshall Asghar Khan conceded as much when he said that Pakistani policies forced India`s hand. Read `War and Secession : Pakistan, India, and the Creation of Bangladesh by Richard Sisson, Leo E. Rose`, if you do not believe me.

``…And for heavens sake, at least give up on this bilateral nonsense…``

And for heavens sake, give up on the covert war nonsense. Or better yet, give up on the covert war, and then revert to a bilateral dialogue

``…You openly state they do not trust Pakistan. Then why the hell do you want to negotiate bilaterally…``

Negotiations are needed WHEN there is no trust, otherwise any action(s) will be deemed trustworthy. Lack of trust does not preclude negotiations. Have you never negotiated with a car salesman? The issue is whether one can conduct negotiations when you hold a gun (i.e. using a covert war) over our heads. It is not that Pakistan is not trustworthy.