Running Naked

hamidm, various

Yes indeed pakistanis and indians are world apart in our thinking. Pakis ask, india has been attacked many times before so why the bellicosity now? Indians say, precisely because we have been attacked before and did not respond. You see, like it or not there has been a war waged on india by pak army and its henchmen. India did not respond with force during kargil because then, as now, GOI was sensitive to the fact that GOP may have been kept in the dark by the pak army. A wider war would surely have meant overthrow of the pak govt that had just signed the lahore treaty. Turned out that india had miscalculated and kargil signaled an increase in militancy in kashmir, a coup in pak with the result that kashmir became the only agenda in our mutual relations. If india were not to react the way it is reacting now there would be several consequences: (1) a government that does not take the assault on the most significant institution of the land loses people`s faith, (2) the jihadis are emboldened, and (3) pak army continues to up the ante.

A war, if it happens, cannot be limited. It will be a wider war in which india will seek to annihilate the pak army so that future pak foreign policy will not be driven by military considerations alone. Whether india will succeed or not is anyone`s guess. But the alternatives are not encouraging.

As for kashmir, since it is pak that seeks to change the status quo, it is up to the pakis to spell out what their demands are with respect to kashmir.

tahmed

``Field Marshall Romair, Reservist Urstruly, Toilet Cleaner ali1, and Draft Dodger hamidm:

Report for duty. On the double. Now!!``

....... i refuse to fight on the same side as urstruly ! ....actually i refuse to fight on any side, and can hardly think of a cause that is worth dying for - i love this life and contrary to what jay tells me i don`t believe i can come back as tom cruise ........ i am a disciple of rodney king, who said, `` people, why can`t we get along`` ..... just for a moment, step back and look at how silly grown men look in combat boots and carrying guns - isn`t that why god invented professional wrestling and road-rage, so that men can work off the testosterone and perform their mating rituals ......

....... for five weeks before the saluting test gentleman cadets at pma march up and down, stamping their feet and doing dain pher, bain pher from sunrise to sunset ...not thinking, just stamping their feet goaded on by the drill staff and shouted at by the BM and the adjudant on horseback ....``shahbash, ye pak fauj key naujawan aa rehay hain - main sumjah key shahid kalaj ki larkiyan aa rahee hain, peechay pher !``..... like posessed men they charge with drawn bayonets at straw-men dressed up as hindoos and sikhs shouting ya-ali and silly pinglish words like perry, but, kut .........all this so that they can salute properly and get a week off ........ i was one of the few who failed this test and stayed behind to smoke dope and watch the rain cascade down the tin roof ......

...... so you see, i am quite unfit to join the war effort ....i am also quite sure that romair and urstruly are not ready to give up ncaa basketball and the comfort of suburban life in silicon valley and mo-town to go sit in a trench in kashmir ......... we will let those silly natives do the dirty work - of course they do have our full moral support .......

tahmed321,

``Field Marshall Romair, Reservist Urstruly, Toilet Cleaner ali1, and Draft Dodger hamidm:``

Such modesty is unbecoming of you Tahmed!! ...don`t forget yourself now...`Pakistani ROCK concert organiser`...heeereeeee`s Tahmed!!!

You may also want to check out these movies, Tahmed:

Do Boondh Pani

Patthar kay Sanam

best regards!!!

Re: Dost-Mittar

“…If India does not cool down the war rhetoric, it will get one…”

It is fairly obvious that India, as the irrepressible Hamidm puts it, wants to derive as much political mileage as possible out of this fiasco by creating a crisis, and discredit Pakistan’s grand strategy of low-intensity conflict coupled with terrorism. The best way to do this is through international diplomatic pressure (remember the strategic lessons learned by the Pak military from Kargil?), and the next best way is to let another such attack take place in the full glare of international media. Have you noticed how quiet the insurgency in Kashmir has become all of a sudden? Nothing works like global condemnation.

Lastly, by stretching tensions to almost the breaking point, India is compelling Musharraf to inadvertently send a global message – ‘it is easier for me to mobilize for war against India, then it is for me to crack down against the Islamists’. Precisely, the message that India wants him to deliver, thus further confirming Pakistan’s standing in the comity of nations – as an exporter of terror and a reckless, nuclear-equipped state. How many countries are going to buy the argument that putting the JeM/LeT out of business is worth fighting a nuclear war? Should Pakistan break first, (ie. launch a pre-emptive nuclear attack), the world community will again perceive India to be the victim, and India will be justified in taking the fight to its ‘logical’ conclusion. Now, India is betting that it will never come to that since Musharraf is not insane. The longer that India stretches this out without actually launching operations, the more opportunity there will be for the jehadists to conduct another outrageous attack in India. (If they truly are not under Musharraf’s control, I will be able to understand his nervousness.) Only this time, it will be in the full glare of world media. That will hurt Pakistan and its grand strategy, even as they see Indians writhing in ‘pain’.

Indeed, under this assumption, it is quite possible that India may even conduct pin-prick raids/inflict damage to the Pakistan military assets with a view towards inviting retaliation, but not making any military moves that would threaten the existence of Pakistan proper. India knows that there are diplomatic limits that Musharraf cannot cross (e.g. fight war without mollifying global public opinion on JeM/LeT), and if he does not cross them – his own position will be undermined by the other hardline generals in the Pak military. If that happens, Pakistan’s grand strategy will take another blow – it will reaffirm global opinion that Pakistan is an exporter of terror and a reckless, unstable, nuclear-equipped state. Vajpayee is getting ready to send out MPs (including from the Opposition) to different world capitals to persuade public opinion in January. Expect the tension to continue till atleast then.

Pakistan has very few options – all bad. The low-intensity conflict/terror option is its least-poor option. But, even that is going to fail. The good options are very hard – ie. strengthen economy, strengthen political institutions, etc.

Re: Hamidm

I think that India will not rest until Musharraf stamps out the LeT/JeM completely or launches a nuke to stop an imminent Indian attack:

``India will next week conduct its biggest military exercises in 15 years along its tense border with Pakistan, an army spokesman (Xavier Thomas) said Monday...All units will participate in the exercises which will shake the desert...The army official added that the wargames would entail ``testing demo missiles`` as well as India`s main T-72 and `Arjun` battle tanks...``

http://headlines.sify.com/433news2.html

Re: Hamidm

And the world is about to fall on Musharraf`s head like a ton of bricks unless he mollifies global public opinion (From the Washinton Times):

``Mr. Bush ``urged President Musharraf to take additional strong and decisive measures to eliminate the extremists who seek to harm India, undermine Pakistan, provoke a war between India and Pakistan and destabilize the international coalition against terrorism,`` ...The sharply contrasting tone of President Bush`s messages to Mr. Vajpayee and Gen. Musharraf on Saturday strongly suggests that Washington is about to do the same thing (as with the Taleban after 9/11) with regard to Islamabad`s support for Kashmiri terrorist groups like the JEM and LT...Pakistan needs to understand that to continue support for Kashmiri terrorists would be the height of folly. It is essential that Islamabad get completely out of the terrorism business...``

Notice -- nobody is talking freedom struggle here anymore. If Musharraf is wise, he will pay heed to what the world is saying. Even the Chinese cannot afford to see a military victory for the terrorists.

Re: Hamidm

It is beginning to get scary now -- from the Washington Times:

``...India has made it obvious that it will continue to increase its pressure on Pakistan unless Islamabad, 1) bans Kashmiri militant groups, 2) arrests their leaders, and 3) puts an end to armed struggle in Kashmir.

Pakistan can either accept this demand or go for the obvious, i.e. a war. Many in Pakistan realize that this time a war with India will not be as ``civilized`` as the wars of 1965 and 1971 when both sides avoided civilian targets.

They know that this time the Indians will go for major economic targets, such as the Tarbela and Mangla dams near Islamabad. The combined effect of destroying these two dams and blocking the rivers from flowing into Pakistan can trigger the beginning of the end for Islamabad.

India can also attempt to capture Pakistani Kashmir, merge it with India and thus settle the Kashmir dispute to its satisfaction. The other option will be to enter Pakistani Kashmir, destroy militant camps and go back to Indian Kashmir.

Yet another option for India is to attack Pakistan`s soft-belly, a narrow corridor in the south that joins the southern Sindh province with the rest of Pakistan. Occupying this corridor will also sever Islamabad`s links with its economic hub and the main port of Karachi.

Any of these attempts will trigger the process that will lead to the demise of the Pakistani state, as it exists today. Faced with this scenario, any government in Pakistan can be forced to go for ``the unthinkable`` and use the nuclear weapon for protecting the state....``

I think that the message emanating from S. Asia is -- we will gladly go to war (even a nuclear one) unless the world is able to stop us first.

Re: anNy:

``..``...banned ptv in a place which had a funny name...``

It`s not Jhoomri-Tallaiya or Vandi-Periyar, is it?

``...my khalas have all gone hysterical...they are now having the family in india tape all the episodes they might miss...``

Better get two copies made in separate towns in India -- Redundancy will eliminate risks of power failures, and also buy some insurance against a nuclear attack. How about buying your own satellite dish? That way, you won`t be dependent on the cable TV operator?

Reply # 218 anarayan

[``In about 3 months time...you can use your pakistani passport as a wipe. Won`t be good for anything else by then.``]

Now that vedic astrology is standard curriculam at Yai Yai Tee thanks to Murli Manohar Joshi, every two bit H1-B cisco router installer can predict the future with accuracy. Congrats.

Most H1B code coolies will sniff, kiss and present my current passport as a wedding night gift even after I have used it as a wipe for 3 months, if only they can lay their dirty hands on it. Another advantage of my passport is that it can be used as an H1B chick magnet, only if the H1B chicks are not as ugly as they tend to be.

Reply # 218 anarayan

[``In about 3 months time...you can use your pakistani passport as a wipe. Won`t be good for anything else by then.``]

Now that vedic astrology is standard curriculam at Yai Yai Tee thanks to Murli Manohar Joshi, every two bit H1-B cisco router installer can predict the future with accuracy. Congrats.

Most H1B code coolies will sniff, kiss and present my current passport as a wedding night gift even after I have used it as a wipe for 3 months, if only they can lay their dirty hands on it. Another advantage of my passport is that it can be used as an H1B chick magnet, only if the H1B chicks are not as ugly as they tend to be.

Re: Dost-Mittar

``...Did you know that it was also used to camp the refugees from Pakistan after 1947? ...``

That too, I suppose.

Reply # 236 tahmed321

[The anarayan, ali1 ``dialogue`` aka The War of the Toilet Paper Tigers.]

good to see your sense of humor coming back, which tells us you are not scared anymore. Now repeat this vazeefa which will exorcise the demons of fear from your heart for good.

``There will be now war... There will be now war`` 101 times

``Indians are bluffing... Indians are bluffing`` 70 times

``US won`t attack Pakistan... US won`t attack Pakistan`` 101 times

and most important

``There will be no internment camps... There will be no internment camps`` 1001 times

``My US passport/Green Card is safe... My US passport/Green Card is safe`` 1001 times.



(Awwal-O-Aakhir Ayat Alkursi)

remember the parliament! to hell with pakistan! ..... and so what if it doesn`t rhyme

..... first there was the conquest of mecca because someone said the meccans had broken a treaty; next muhammad bin columbus conquered sind to avenge the death of a muslim damsel whose cries had reached the caliph; then there was william randolph hearst who manufactured the war against spain by raising the cry, `` remember the maine! to hell with spain`` - and of course he also produced a damsel in distress; no one remembers the gulf of tonkin, but that is how america got into the mess in vietnam ............ now it is the attack on some silly government building in a delhi slum which is being used by india to get rid of the pesky pakis once and for all - i am still waiting for them to produce the damsel in distress ........

......... i hope the clowns in the ghq and their batmen have read their history books..... there is nothing they can do to placate india - india smells an easy victory, it can taste the blood ( sorry - turnip juice) and will exact its pound of bhaji .... i just hope air marshall romair`s buddies can deliver half a dozen packages without getting lost on the way, and the EME guys who assembled the kits didn`t end up with loose springs and washers .........

......happy new year

Reply # 229 RSaxena

[would one of the pakistanis please answer this...i blow]

do you really? Rsux, we know what you do for a living, no need to acknowledge it in public. Heck, your name says it all!

Reply # 232 Joeseph Arokiaraj

[``Lets just go to war with these two bit pakistan.``]

You`re da man. Now only if your gutless/gonadless seventy-something leaders were as brave as you are.

[``Go George``]

errrr..... geroge? he is only a token, joey boy. Remember he was out of the loop at the time of nuclear blasts? (try bagpipe@hinduzealots.com .... go bagpipe!)

Joe, George, Graham..... you guys are just poster boys, actually meant to be BBQued like you know which animal (hint: Jews dont like this animal a lot)..... you can choose a slow BBQ at the hands of the likes of our great Indian chef Dara Singh or an instant BBQ from Pakistani nukes.

Reply # 234 dost-mittar

[You missed something basic about my post; the message (without the twists from you) was primarily for Indians and not Pakistanis.]

Regardless, your attempt at dehumanizing Pakistanis was pathetic. Do you really think that pakistanis are so fired by Islamic Jihadic fervor that they are impervious war, death and injury?