Running Naked

sadna

...... i rest my case - this one exchange between you and i proves the intractable differences between the two people ...... there is no room from compromise and shouting at each other we are headed for disaster .... like i said before it won`t be a major loss for mankind

Re: Romair

``...Just heard the Indian law minister on CNN. (followed by 1000 words of the usual ramblings)...``

OUCH! That must have hurt! The media blitz is going to grow louder...Musharraf had better keep the elections on schedule now!

Re: Hamidm

``...only this time india is being devilishly opportunistic...and i must admit it is very clever ...it seems to be working to some extent - our parents always told us the muslaa was no match for the cunning bania when it comes to politics or business...``

Hamidm, you are in august company. The Rand Corporation agrees with you assessment:

``India understands that the most likely strategy for Pakistan will be increasing its support for insurgency and for terrorist attacks throughout India. New Delhi also appreciates that this strategy is to Pakistan’s own disadvantage and further confirms Islamabad as a sponsor of Islamist terrorism. Despite the episodic temptation to bloody the Pakistani nose, India will continue to exhibit restraint.``

From `Limited Conflict Under the Nuclear Umbrella: Indian and Pakistani Lessons from the Kargil Crisis`

http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1450/

shammisahab

``Last I heard, Indian TV channels have been banned throughout Pakistan. PTV is still being shown in India.``

i saw/heard on zee news 3 days ago that they had banned ptv in a place which had a funny name...we were getting all indian channels till day before...

my khalas have all gone hysterical...kabhi saas bhi bahoo thee something and ghar ghar kee kahani is like their life line..im not joikng, the second youngest and stupidest was almost close to tears...they are now having the family in india tape all the episodes they might miss

hamidm:

i could kiss you!

Re: Hamidm

``...attacks on government buildings are not uncommon...``

It is not just ANY government building, it is THE government building. BTW, the last time anyone `attacked` it was Bhagat Singh (in 1931?) with a smoke bomb (it was not even packed with explosives) from the visitor`s gallery. We all know what the British did to him.

Re: Romair

``...Just like the US opened up ground zero to the world media. If the US had not shown a single picture of the WTC, would anyone have believed its statements?)...``

So you mean that showing the damage to the Parliament, and to the J&K Assembly before that (for which JeM made a claim or responsibility) would be enough `evidence`? So, showing pictures of damaged buildings and dead bodies is enough? If it is, then have you not watched TV lately? Have you not watched the gun battle outside the Parliament? But, you are still not convinced. Will you ever be?

soysauce #212
`` First off congrats on the award that Jay has confered on you ``

Thanks, but to be honest I didnot quite understand Jay`s citation :)
For the rest, I agree with you though I wish Indians had a clearer picture from Pakistanis of whats the real internal situation and what are the real internal pressures on Musharraf?

hamidm #215
`` it is inconcievable that we will let the indians march into lahore without using all possible measures .....``

I havenot heard a single Indian statement which talks of marching into Lahore. Infact Defense Minister George Fernandes said something like Pakistan reinforced its positions along the Rajasthan border very soon after the attack, even before India had made any moves at all. India is indicating its willingness to ignore the world`s alarmism, thats all, in my belief.

``i think i watched the same show and i did not hear the pakistani fm say anything of the sort - he simply reiterated pakistan`s stated policy on the use of nuclear weapons as a measure of last resort``

Yes, its the question of what is the last resort according to Pakistanis? Having to crack down on PAKISTANI religious extremists fighting in INDIA is the last resort, it seems. What on earth prevents the Pakistani government from giving even private assurances to India on further jihadi attacks if its so innocent?

`` it is evident that india is trying to use this attack on the parliament to try and settle the kashmir issue unilaterally .... ``

I can also say ``Destroying the Indian government is Pakistan`s way of settling the kashmir issue unilaterally, its evident to all Indians esp. after two attacks in N. Delhi``. Either Pakistanis can wage jihad in India or have peace with India, take your pick of only one. Hypocrisy and ambiguity is not helping matters.

`` in the subcontinent five or ten dead people, political assasinations and attacks on government buildings are not uncommon``

Which common incidents? We donot scale walls and take over the country in bloodless coups and call it all in a days work(I donot think even ordinary Pakistanis do).
If a Kashmiri or any other disgruntled Indian wants to blow up his OWN country`s Parliament or kill his OWN country`s leaders in India`s capital, thats his business. For Pakistanis to do so, under orders from Pakistani organisations, under protection of the Pakistani military government is another matter entirely. Kindly take note of the difference, Indians have already done so.

For Pakistan to use its nuclear arsenal as excuse to urge India to do nothing about such attacks, but demand peace talks instead, is the icing after taking the cake.

``only this time india is being devilishly opportunistic and thinks it can use the current climate to satisfy its territorial ambitions, and i must admit it is very clever ``

And if Pakistan`s Kashmir policy is proving counterproductive, why is it India`s problem?

And why arenot Pakistanis interested in a `just` solution for Kashmir pondering on this : if the jihadis didnot even have the good sense to wait until the atmosphere or climate was more conducive for such an attack to have the desired effect(which it never would), why is Pakistan depending on such stupid thickheaded misguided people for success in its Kashmir policy? Why is the Pakistani government willing to go to war for them ?

``our parents always told us the muslaa was no match for the cunning bania when it comes to politics or business .........``

Its pretty stupid to expect India to say OK come attack our Parliament and we will say and do nothing because you have nuclear weapons and we are poor. And its interesting that the fighting spirit of Muslims(which all Pakistanis claim to be) is called fighting spirit and the fighting spirit of horrible hindus is called cunning. Very Kiplingesque. I think the mythology of Ganesha the elephant-headed god is a safer one to subscribe to.

btw, there were Muslim MPs too, in parliament. I doubt the attackers would have enquired who was what before shooting them dead. I hope ALL Indian MPs feel a LITTLE ashamed that 8 brave Indians died doing their duty so that these same MPs can continue to throw chairs, give out petrol agencies as favors and engineer riots without Pakistani generals and Pakistani religious zealots having any say in the matter.

``or reasons other than the silly attack in delhi, i do think pakistan should hand over the LeT and JeT leaderhip to india,``

I donot think India is demanding that Pakistan hand over the LeT and JeT leadership. I think India is demanding that the Pakistani government take action on its own and give some sign that its making a clean break with this style of doing business, namely letting unemployed religious fanatics target Indian establishments and institutions while protesting they want to talk peace. This half-and-half willnot work. There has to be some sign that Hamid Gul`s and Javed Nasir`s security philosophy of the dismembering of India and fighting for Islam is being disowned by the Pakistani military establishment.

If there is no such sign and India still shows willingness to talk peace, I have read enough jang.com.pk to bet that the crazies who are Pakistani thinkers and planners will take it that India is too weak to resist Hamid Gul`s brilliant tactics.

Unfortunately, I donot think we are going to see such a sign.

someone-give-me-water-ali1,

``There is another glorious Arab tradition that we will follow: make the conquered Hindus our slaves and have them lick it clean......``

Well said!

A commendable job you did too, my dear ex-hindu...on Osama and his arab friends. Arab crap-pakistani clean. Traditional Pakistani hospitality!

We`ll try and ease your `burden` a bit. In about 3 months time...you can use your pakistani passport as a wipe. Won`t be good for anything else by then.

best and `clean` regards,

re: Romair

``...India states Pakistan is involved in the attack on the Indian parliament, yet it is unwilling to justify it by providing proof...``

Is this coming from the same person who just a few months ago was regaling us with stories right here on Chowk about meeting young, educated, middle-class Pakistani men in Lahore who had recently returned from their murderous expeditions into India, and who had `entertained` him with stories about their exploits? And you have the gall to ask for proof?

sadna

``1. Pakistani government official going on world television threatening a nuclear attack to wipe out hundreds of thousands of ordinary Indians, simply to avoid taking comprehensive action against Pakistani religious extremists, which is all that India is demanding. ``

.......i think i watched the same show and i did not hear the pakistani fm say anything of the sort - he simply reiterated pakistan`s stated policy on the use of nuclear weapons as a measure of last resort - and that makes perfect sense to all pakistanis .... it is inconcievable that we will let the indians march into lahore without using all possible measures ..... he categorically stated that pakistan did not want any kind of conventioinal or non-conventional war and that should be sufficient for anyone who is willing to listen - evidently, india is not and is hell bent on brinkmanship .........

....... even for someone like me who doesn`t give two hoots about kashmir, it is evident that india is trying to use this attack on the parliament to try and settle the kashmir issue unilaterally .... in the subcontinent five or ten dead people, political assasinations and attacks on government buildings are not uncommon - only this time india is being devilishly opportunistic and thinks it can use the current climate to satisfy its territorial ambitions, and i must admit it is very clever ..... even though a man in dhoti looks silly trying to use israeli language, it seems to be working to some extent - our parents always told us the muslaa was no match for the cunning bania when it comes to politics or business .........

....... for reasons other than the silly attack in delhi, i do think pakistan should hand over the LeT and JeT leaderhip to india, but i doubt if that will calm down the raging testosterone ( and i thought vegetables were good for you !)..... i am afraid that even if we dodge the bullet this time, the subcontinent is headed for a nuclear disaster and it really won`t matter who pushed the button first ...... mankind survived the death of fifty million people in WW-II, it will survive the death of a few million miserable savages in the sub-continent ..........

Reply # 187 dost-mittar

Another load of condescending garbage from dost mittar as usual.

[India now has Musharraf where she wants it; he may like it or not but he has no choice but to crack down on these jehadis or face America`s wrath, not to speak of a war that he doesn`t want.]

I wonder if Indians know how pathetic they sound when they try to scare Pakistanis of America`s ``wrath``. (it works though, it scares the chickenshit out of dumbasses and drunkards like tahmed and hamidm). I feel that Indians just want to delude themselves that America would go to war with Pakistan on their behalf.

America`s wrath now would be a phone call per day and probably a visit by Richard Amritage a la Strobe Talbott`s visit in 1998. If Nawaz Sharif the cactus could withstand that, I am sure Mush can do that too.

[Vajpayee should agree to meet Musharraf in Kathmandu and get a confirmation of this commitment and an action plan on how he plans to deal with these jehadis.]

Bagpipe should expect the middle finger from Musharraf. Musharraf will lose my respect and also of other Pakistanis if he gives an inch to India on Kashmir. The above conversation can only take place if India has already won the war with Pakistan, which it won`t.

[``Pakistan is no pushover; man to man, the Pakistani soldier, I believe, is more motivated (it`s the jehadi spirit, stupid!) than his Indian counterpart. Moreover, we never hear from Pakistan incidents of insubordination in the army, planes crashing and fires in ordnance depots that we routinely read about in India - signs of an army at less than peak efficiency. Even the civilian population in Pakistan seems to be more motivated - all the incidents of civilians fleeing from border villages seem to be coming from India.``]

DEAR PAKISTANIS......

This is a despicable attempt to dehumanize Pakistanis and paint Pakistan as a nation of 140 million jehadi fanatics. Be very careful when you hear an Indian say this, he is definitely no dost-mittar of Pakistan and Pakistanis.

Pakistani soldiers and civilians are human beings, they get scared in the face of death, they get hurt when hit by munitions, they feel sad when their loved ones die. Like all other human beings, they will retaliate in the face of aggression.

[``India has now the sympathy of the rest of the world as its outrage has paid rich political dividends. India will lose all the goodwill it has garnered if it launches an attack on Pakistan.``]

Rest of the world will see India was a nation bent upon belligerency in the face of Pakistani pleas for peace.

Read this at http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011230/wl/india_pakistan_dc_37.html

Pakistan Seeks Peace; India Backed for Action

NEW DELHI/ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistan said on Sunday it wanted peace with India but was worried by its neighbor`s mounting military build-up as the Indian government won wide political backing for any action.

Reply # 187 dost-mittar

Another load of condescending garbage from dost mittar as usual.

[India now has Musharraf where she wants it; he may like it or not but he has no choice but to crack down on these jehadis or face America`s wrath, not to speak of a war that he doesn`t want.]

I wonder if Indians know how pathetic they sound when they try to scare Pakistanis of America`s ``wrath``. (it works though, it scares the chickenshit out of dumbasses and drunkards like tahmed and hamidm). I feel that Indians just want to delude themselves that America would go to war with Pakistan on their behalf.

America`s wrath now would be a phone call per day and probably a visit by Richard Amritage a la Strobe Talbott`s visit in 1998. If Nawaz Sharif the cactus could withstand that, I am sure Mush can do that too.

[Vajpayee should agree to meet Musharraf in Kathmandu and get a confirmation of this commitment and an action plan on how he plans to deal with these jehadis.]

Bagpipe should expect the middle finger from Musharraf. Musharraf will lose my respect and also of other Pakistanis if he gives an inch to India on Kashmir. The above conversation can only take place if India has already won the war with Pakistan, which it won`t.

[``Pakistan is no pushover; man to man, the Pakistani soldier, I believe, is more motivated (it`s the jehadi spirit, stupid!) than his Indian counterpart. Moreover, we never hear from Pakistan incidents of insubordination in the army, planes crashing and fires in ordnance depots that we routinely read about in India - signs of an army at less than peak efficiency. Even the civilian population in Pakistan seems to be more motivated - all the incidents of civilians fleeing from border villages seem to be coming from India.``]

DEAR PAKISTANIS......

This is a despicable attempt to dehumanize Pakistanis and paint Pakistan as a nation of 140 million jehadi fanatics. Be very careful when you hear an Indian say this, he is definitely no dost-mittar of Pakistan and Pakistanis.

Pakistani soldiers and civilians are human beings, they get scared in the face of death, they get hurt when hit by munitions, they feel sad when their loved ones die. Like all other human beings, they will retaliate in the face of aggression.

[``India has now the sympathy of the rest of the world as its outrage has paid rich political dividends. India will lose all the goodwill it has garnered if it launches an attack on Pakistan.``]

Rest of the world will see India was a nation bent upon belligerency in the face of Pakistani pleas for peace.

Read this at http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011230/wl/india_pakistan_dc_37.html

Pakistan Seeks Peace; India Backed for Action

NEW DELHI/ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistan said on Sunday it wanted peace with India but was worried by its neighbor`s mounting military build-up as the Indian government won wide political backing for any action.

#206 Sadhana

First off congrats on the award that Jay has confered on you :)

Second, you make a lot of good points. It is indeed possible that Gen. Mushy is caught between the jihadis and the indian ire and all the hot air is an attempt to avoid a coup. (He should know what awaits him should he tamper with the carefully constructed low-cost low-intensity war strategy in kashmir since he was at the giving end last time round) But how can india target the jihadis and their army handlers specifically? Mushy has also not helped himself by putting kashmir above all else. This was to be his legacy. I say the hell with him. Let the hawks take over. Then there will be no ambiguity as to what ought to be done.

I am pleased as punch that india has been put into the position of facing up to the reality that there has indeed been a war going on sponsored by pak. Let`s hope that those in charge know how to execute and not just talk.

unkaljay:

``A mechanical net nanny award to punch anNy when she uses, ji, unkal etc``

i love you very much also

kisses,

anNy

p.s: all suffixes and prefixes (sp?) used are to accord respect or maintain protocol save unkal... when i say that, i`m making fun of you

ali, would you be willing to participate in a study evaulating the impact of cousin-marriages in pakistan? there may be cash available, or a private evening with david roberts, the professor...or access to 10 fresh, young madrassah boys from pakistan.