Enough is Enough

The main advocate of the current potential military conflict is Mr. Advani of the BJP (I should say India, since Indians elect the BJP). He seems to have dominated the otherwise moderate Vajpayee. Advani`s claim is that he is against religious extremism in Pakistan. Point taken. So are 99.9% of Pakistanis. However, Advani is so much against religious extremism that he is willing to declare war on Pakistan, without any legal proceedings. Most Pakistanis, like myself, are willing to arrest criminals in Pakistan, and even hand them over to India, provided a neutral trial is held, and evidence is provided. But Mr. Advani doesn`t believe in such concepts for Pakistanis. He only believes in them for himself.

If memory serves me correctly, wasn`t Mr. Advani himself wanted in one of the most irrational cases of religious extremism ever carried out anywhere in the world. Tearing down a mosque is bad. Tearing down a mosque as a symbol of national identity, and as a part of one`s party`s manifesto (www.bjp.org) is even worse. Tearing down a mosque, which results in deaths second only to those that occured in the WTC is pathetic. Doing so in one`s own country against one`s own minority population is uncomprehensible. After doing that, then getting elected as the no. 2 leader in one`s country is out of this world. After gettting elected, then declaring war (potentially nuclear) against a neighbor for harboring religious militants, but not agreeing to a trial in an international court makes me speechless.

Shouldn`t India first carry out trials against Mr. Advani, before it declares war on Pakistan? People who may think of tearing down a Shia or Sunni mosque, or temples etc. are being banned and arrested in Pakistan. They can never win a single seat, much less become the no. 2 person in power.

Such people, however, seem to be calling the shots in India. Perhaps Indians should worry about their own Lashkars first.

``Ministers accused

The high court`s decision paves the way for criminal proceedings against those accused of crimes relating to the demolition and the riots that followed.

But the court rejected the notice served against eight politicians from the ruling party, the BJP, including the Home Minister LK Advani.

LK Advani: Off the hook

Three years ago, a local court decided there were sufficient grounds to charge the ministers as well as the the hardline Hindu leader Bal Thackeray.

But the high court dismissed that verdict on technical grounds.`` (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1166000/1166448.stm)

Shammi, Romair, Tahmed, Shankar

Err...yes...if you have checked today`s NYTimes (which, honestly, I haven`t had a squint at today) there doesn`t seem to be any huge surprises here...Tahmed I want to bring up a point you made on another board, which was roughly, Pakistan must face the reality that it is being taken for hostage by fundamentalist terrorist orgs., and on top of that, a need to feel everything is a conspiracy...is there a country that is as unique and special as Pakistan in that there are secret military groups that want to frame us in terrorist attacks? (oh dear, lapsing into sarcasm...)

Re: Shankar

{{Sitting in USA surely you can lecture people about peace..}}

You goddamned mofo, you sit in the US & lecture the ``subcontinent`` about war! nuclear war?! Cost-benefit ratio?

On top of that, you hypocritical besharam claim to have attended that ``peace rally`` in San Jose?!!, shake hands with the owner of Chowk & advocate the benefits of war on Chowk?!

Harimou,

Did you invite this chut from your RSS shaka?!



Without stooping to your language I just want to make clear I dont have any sympathies for RSS nor pseudo Peaceniks like you. I believe war is sometimes really necessary for durable peace. Choice for cowardly ``peace`` is very easy to make for weaklings like you. But choice for a war for ``durable peace`` only braves can make and they do have ignore voices like you.

As for calling me ``chut``. Its very amusing.. Did u use to denigrate me!! If yes there shows your RSS or whatever India male ``samskaras`` you subconsciously have, which makes you feel that female genetalia is the dirtiest thing in the world. Tell this to all of the female readers here, tell this to your female near and dear ones.. Ask their opinion about it.. So Shankar tell me did you stop eating your mother`s food when she used to have those days, if you consider ``chut`` to be so dirty. If you are married, do you step out of your house for small ``weekend`` vacation when your wife has those days. Stupid moron you accusing me from RSS, you show a backward mentality of 16th century. You basically prove that spatial dislocation hardly changes the mentality. I you have real shame or realization of stupid comment you made, you should apologize to all the female folks here.

Dear Romair (#58)

You are correct when you say that when Mr. Advani advocates war he is doing what the majority of Indians want him to say. But tell me this: it was hardly three years ago when our PM, with the full support of the Indian electorate and his cabinet, went to Lahore on a peace mission. The same BJP that you blame now for advocating war, at that time was busy touting the trip as the major achievement of its one year in office. This was clearly becoz they beleived that the Indian people approved. Now the same Govt. is buckling up for war, and again with a nod from the Indian people. All within three years! Clearly Indians did not initially want war. But they would not mind one now.

Do you think that this vast change in the national mood is just due to the manipulations of the ``fascist`` BJP which has fooled a billion plus people? Even if one accepts the Pakistani govt.`s claims that it has no control over the jehadi outfits operating from its territory, has Pakistan no responsibility if it feeds and keeps the dog which crosses the fence and bites the neighbours?

Whether there is enough evidence or not to convince an international jury, for better or for worse, the Indian public has made up its mind and passed a guilty verdict. The decision was not a hasty one, it has been two decades in the making. And the verdict also seems to be accepted by the world community at large, and now it seems by Pres. Musharraf too. The question is where do we go from here?

-narain

Re: Romair on Advani

``...The main advocate of the current potential military conflict is Mr. Advani...``

Did Advani give you a call to confirm this? Or is it clever guesswork on your part?

Romair, go and obtain the facts of Liberhans Commission (the Commission of Inquiry to look in the Babri Masjid fiasco), and find out how Advani was subpoenaed and forced to testify. The Commission is still active, and nobody is off the hook until the matter remains subjudice. Is there any such judicial commission inquiring into the activities of the JeM/LeT, (until India stepped up its protests and compelled Musharraf to act)? None of this is to say that the demolition was not barbaric -- it was. The law is taking its course, slowly but surely -- whether Advani likes it or not.

May Allah turn recession on its head and bring back the golden era of dot coms sending dollar bills stapled to their merchandise. This will allow ROmair to get some work and save us the mortal ones from enduring his sermons.

Ameen sum Ameen.

later

-sac

Time to declare war:

``Four Indian agents held

TANDO ADAM: Four people, allegedly involved in planting bomb at railway track in Tando Adam, district Sanghar on December 25 last, have been arrested by police along with another bomb and subversive material.

Addressing a news conference here on Wednesday, SSP Sanghar Shahid Hanif said the arrested terrorists confessed that they received terrorists` training in India and had visited the country several times.`` (NEWS, Pakistan)

I think Pakistan should now declare war on India. It should carry out the largest mobilization of forces in thirty years. It should arm its missiles and nuclear weapons. And under no circumstances, should it agree to providing any evidence, under any international law. It is time that Pakistan finally decide everything with India, once and for all, and threaten nuclear war.

Oh wait!! Someone already beat us to it.....

Anytime any terrorist activity takes place in any country, it should declare war on the other, without bothering about legalities. That is the best way to handle Indo-Pak conflicts. Now if only the Indians would agree to such an approach....

Indians are in big trouble now.

If you thought the Pakistani men were bigger and tougher (not to mention better looking) than you guys (not counting Sikhs; who are honorary Pakistanis, anyways :-)), just wait till the Pakistani women get at you.

``PABF to introduce women`s boxing

KARACHI: ...Pakistan Amateur Boxing Federation (PABF) has decided to launch women boxing in Pakistan soon.

The joint secretary and spokesmen of PABF, Ali Akbar Shah disclosed to PPI here on Wednesday that PABF is expected to announce this month the formation of its women wing and invite the interested Pakistan women boxers to join the women boxing.`` (NEWS, Pakistan)

I would highly encourage all Pakistani females on Chowk to join. Boxing is good for your health. It smoothens your complexion. Removes dandruff and split ends. And gets rid of cellulite. Not to mention the fact, it will make Advani think twice, before launching his nukes.

http://www.markazdawa.org/English/magazines/VOICE/200108/activities_of_lashker.htm

My favourite is this typical listing under `Jihadic activities`:
July 7 : 7 polytheist Hindus dispatched to Hell

:)

Romair #65, `` would highly encourage all Pakistani females on Chowk to join. Boxing is good for your health. It smoothens your complexion. Removes dandruff and split ends. And gets rid of cellulite.``

yeah, i think i`ll join, just to beat the crap out of MCP`s like yourself.

shankar bhai,

i actually agree with `chandan.` you shouldn`t have used THAT word.

though i wouldn`t mind you calling him a dickhead, since that term fits male psyches pretty well.

lets leave females out of it.

I hate that situation has come to this point and war clouds are looming over our heads. god forbid if war happens I will have almost 90% of my relatives and friends in the war zone. It is giving me very nervous, scared and helplessness feeling.

having said that...the way some of the jihadis are showing to be the most anti-war peace loving souls while hiding their wet pants..it does give me some pleasure.

Romair #65

if the news is true then who is really in trouble is Pakistani men.:)

Romair,

{{Anytime any terrorist activity takes place in any country, it should declare war on the other, without bothering about legalities. That is the best way to handle Indo-Pak conflicts. Now if only the Indians would agree to such an approach}}

Absolutely right! Kill the frikking banias!:)

OK seriously, your point is well taken--so stop beating a dead horse. There is really NO mechanism to do that. The UN & World Court, in theory, are supposed to be avenues where conflicts were supposed to be resolved in a civilised fashion. Those mechanisms are nothing but a farce. Time & again, they have been sidelined by the very countries that created them in the first place.

In reality; a new world order is already forming--esp since GWB came to the White House. Americans (Republicans in particular) seem to have a very clear, ``uncomplicated`` view of what is ``good`` & what is ``bad``. Of course, America is ``good`` & those who disagree are ``bad``. Those AMERICANS who disagree are ``hand wringing, bleeding heart liberals``. They are totally sidelined. 90+% of Americans are approving GWB`s actions today. What does that tell you?!

During the Cold War, at least the Soviet Union would provide some counterbalance. Not to say that the Soviets were ``good``. Personally, compared to America, they were bigger, hypocritical mofos. Now youre hoping (& betting) that China will be an effective counterbalance to America in the next 20 years. Wow! compared to what China has done (& is doing) in Tibet & Xinjaing (?sp), Indians are frikking saintly in Kashmir:) Of course, that doesnt stop your hero Mushy to appeal to all ``freedom loving Chinese`` to stop agitating for their rights & become GOOD Chinese citizens.

OK. Let me retierate that when it comes to hypocracy, deviousness & double standards, Indians are right up there-- among the top ten! Conscience in India?!---foggitaboutit! When it comes down to the nitty gritty, I`m just as big a mofo hypocritical Indian as the rest of the billion. So when my Indian ``friends`` accuse me of being a handwring, hypocrite, peacenik Paki hugger & kisser upper-- I cant completely disagree; but I enjoy giving gaalis to those chu-- er, sorry, dickheads:)

Now, about Pakistan. When you are directly asked if Pakistan`s conduct is right in Kashmir; or if Pakistan does`nt support terrorism or if Pakistan is this pious, peace loving nation that is built on the principles of Jinnah?---you stand up & say NOOO-I NEVER SAID THAT--DONT YOU DARE TWIST MY WORDS! With righteous indignation, to boot. But thats how you SPIN it, in your arguments, my friend. Deny it as much as you want. But just listen to what you say. And dont you DARE ask me ``just show me one post where I said that?!`` I`m not the only Indian who calls you a spin doctor. So come join our ``Hypocrite Club``. And, one more thing---for Heaven`s sake, get a slightly thicker skin when you are criticised--``unfairly``, by us, of course:)

So you want to fight this unfair, hypocritical new World Order by immigrating to Canada, eh?! Do you have any idea what youre talking aboooot? Those Canucks are backing the US 100%. Maybe cos their skulls have been hit by too many hockey pucks.

Oh, dont look at me that way! I can almost see your fair Kashmiri complexion turn beet red:) If there`s one thing I hate, its your stony silence when youre mad. Hey, a cowardly bania like me prefers to fight on Chowk than against your ``world famous`` military:)

Peace, brother!

scout #67: You need to develop a sense of humor. Life without humor leads to violence and uptightness. At least let others enjoy humor, if you don`t want to.

There is enough abuse on this site, as it is. No need to add more to it. The last thing this site needs is a group of people who think they are, ``justly`` abusing others. In that sense, people like Chandan are better. At least, they know they are abusing, and do so openly, without a chip on their shoulder. They are not trying to turn themselves into an abuse police, by abusing others.

Everyone isn`t your enemy. So learn to crack jokes and smile a little bit. Or mind you own business, and at least let others smile. Or continue your abuse. Your choice....

Peace Rally

To stop war between India-Pakistan

Date: Saturday, January 5, 2002

Time: 10:00 A.M.

Place: Union Square
San Francisco
Corner of Powell and Gary

Please be on time

Please urge your friends to attend. All peace loving people are invited to participate, regardless of nationality, color or creed.