Forced Marriages in the UK

Tariq,

There was no need for you to state that you are not the famous tariq ali, your article says it all, you are a ninicompoomp. You have no idea about islam, first join some madrassa and learn. A muslim woman seeing a non-muslim is a honourkilling crime. Imagine the muslim girl converting to another religion. Tariq, it is always the women getting imprisoned. For men it is OK, they can marry any woman, convert them to islam, follow the path of jinnah and Imran khan, both benefitted from the wealth of their wives.

Ref AAmir #: 5

[There are many incosistencies in life ,but given the discrimination of Indian muslims ,WOULD THEY HAVE NOT BECOME Buddhist or Christians ,if they were not true Muslims.]

There are many incosistencies in life, but given the discrimination of Indian Dalits, WOULD THEY HAVE NOT BECOME Buddhist or Christians, if they were not true Hindus.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

``forced marriages`` sound rather antiquated. It is somewhat surprising that such a thing should occur at all in Britain (maybe the case mentioned is exceedingly rare?)

Even in India the majority of marriages are ``arranged`` but few are ``forced``. Certainly there should be a legal remedy in such cases. I suspect forced marriages occur in certain ``backward`` parts of the country (or within ``backward`` communities that have strong proscriptions)

In the ``arranged`` marriage scenario what happens is that there is a free market of would-be brides and grooms. People put out ads in papers and on the net and through word of mouth.

Prospective brides/grooms communicate/meet with each other in this marry-go-around till something clicks or they run out of options or they choose to remain single.

While I have nothing against ``love`` marriages it seems to me that the arranged marriage market is more efficient in matching compatible persons. There is nothing so great about ``love``; its overrated, far more than sex.

Most arranged marriages are conducted within-community (however defined) but its not uncommon to have ``caste, religion, community no bar; divorcees welcome`` kind of statements in ads

Tariq Ali.

[Arranged marriages are completely different from forced marriages. I am in favour of arranged marriages whiich is consent from both spouses. Not everybody forces their children into marriage it is only a minority in the Asian community that do that.``]

Very True.

Good,Valuable & short Tariq Ali.It is such practical,timely and problem-solving articles & news items that we need on Chowk.

It is the curse of the British education system which has been haunting the muslims every-where which has produces ultra-jahils but extra-moneymakers in society.So much so that most of these jahils are not aware of the contents of their own Nikah-namaas.

If only they could know how advanced they are & how gradually the west is co-optig all those great features of their religion & giving everyone an impression that it is their ``discoveries``

As I have frequently mentioned the Bhoora-Goraas would eat gobar-burgers & drink piss-shakes only but only if it is a US brand.At no period in human history a bunch of slaves have ever happily announced their ability to proclaim what they have ceased to be.

There are three classes of Indo-Pakis:

1)those who are imported------mostly

muslims & brahmins

2)Those who want to be exported---mostly mixed breeds of hindus & muslims.

3)Those who are desperately waiting for an outsider to come,rule over them and ``solve`` their miseries and make them feel proud of themselves.

(This was a short crash course in Indian History)

Another category is of those who are in a hurry to look like Michael Jackson,the white version.Ready to get their DNAs ``improved`` they are willing to go to any extent to get screwed---even if they have to mortgage their soul.Bollywood & Lollywood are a good glimpse into the mindset of this english-school type.Look around in any Indo-Pak gathering you will find aplenty.Readily recognisable by their semi-naked wives & daughters,cospicuous by their penchant for brand-names(car,jewellery,shoes,shirt etc) so that they put their empty brains on display,and a stark absence of their interest in anything which cannot be measured,weighed or counted.

Ref AAmir #: 1

[Forced marriage is wrong in Islam]

Let us see what else is supposedly wrong in Islam:

Forced conversions is wrong. Well, that would mean about 950 million Muslims will return to the religions of their forefathers. All Pakistanis will become Hindus. There will be no reason for Pakistan to exist as a separate country. There will be no possibility of a nuclear war in South Asia.

Hey, not a bad idea, huh?

Oops. I forgot: Apostasy is wrong in Islam.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

audio-video-radio

Are you the same sorry character as that pitiable pyar kiye ja? Both of you are totally pathetic.

Didn`t your family know about infanticide at the time you were born?

ana #42 Looks like the earlier post you mention did not make it. I assume it was some technical glitch, unless the chowk moderator decided to make his presence felt. Thanks for writing.

kiran sahiba--35

The reason Anees has been mentioned is because you expressed an interest in word-usage.He is soooo powerful that it is difficult to continue reading him without a palpitating,racing heart.

And I am talking about just the usage of words and NOT the subject matter---which itself deserves attention.

No Urdu poet of any stature can move ahead without negotiating with this master.

Ghalib felt so feeble & apologetic that when he visited Anees to pay his respects he composed a few lines in Anees` genre(that is the custom) but just couldn`t.....``Srkaar buss yeh aap hee kaa hissaa hai``.

Where would you find a king himself(Vajid Ali Shah)stannding next to a poet(Anees) and making himself available as a personal servant?I have a handpainting(copy) of that occasion.

It is Anees who composed the tareekh e wafat for Ghalib & that is the one which still graces the epitaph.

``Mirza Ghalib Asadullah sey milnay ko gayay``

__________________________________________________

I hope you did not find this tidbit `overbearing`.

Humzad saheb,

Aapkey yaqeen ka shukriya, khud apney baarey mein yeh kehney sey qaasir hoonh. Anees ko meinnay parrha nahi hay, lehaaza kuch keh nahi sakti, aur choonkay aap ghaaliban Faiz kay madDah hein, isliye mein apni raaye unkay baarey mein mehfooz rekhoon gi. Leikin unka aik shair arz hay:

Jo rukkay to koh giraan thay hum, jo chaley to jaaN sey guzzar gaye

Rah-e-yaar humnay qadam qadam tujhey yaadgaar banadiya.

Khair andaish

Kiran

Humzad saheb,

Aapkey yaqeen ka shukriya, khud apney baarey mein yeh kehney sey qaasir hoonh. Anees ko meinnay parrha nahi hay, lehaaza kuch keh nahi sakti, aur choonkay aap ghaaliban Faiz kay madDah hein, isliye mein apni raaye unkay baarey mein mehfooz rekhoon gi. Leikin unka aik shair arz hay:

Jo rukkay to koh giraan thay hum, jo chaley to jaaN sey guzzar gaye

Rah-e-yaar humnay qadam qadam tujhey yaadgaar banadiya.

Khair andaish

Kiran

mohtarma kiran sahiba:--33

Humein yuqeen hai keh ugar alfaaz kee qalamroo sey aap kaa guzar hotaa hai to lazmunn aap iss iquleem kay shahinshah yaanee Meer Anees kay durbaar mein haazree detee rehtee hongee.

Humm ney eik duffa faiz sahib ko ghair liyaa,aur unn ko bataannay pur majboor kyaa,kay kaun urdu shaair,unn kee daanist mein,subb sey barray durjay pur hai,to jo naam unhon nein liyaa voh Anees hee kaa thaa.

Anees ko humm nein ussi vaqt sey gulaay lagayaa huaa hai aur faiz sahib pur hamaara eemaan pukhtaa tur hotaa chalaa jaata hai.

``Voh to voh hai,tumhein ho jaayegee ulfat mujh sey

ikk nazar tumm meraa mehboob e nazar to dekho``

Faiz sahib jo angraizee shaaree,hurr qism kee,sey khoob vaaquif thhay,Meer Anees aur Meer Taqui Meer ko urdu/angraizee shaeree mein subb sey azeem gurdaantey thhay.

hamzad saheb #29:

Guilty on both counts. :) LafzoN sey khailney ka khatarnaak shauq paal rekha hay.

harimau #27:

Sure let me explain, (as if it needs any more explaining)when you [or anyone for that matter] comment on politics, which is more often than not a discussion in vain, made up of mud-slinging and spewing bile, I don`t care. When you get personal with others, and outright insult them, I don`t care either, but to be so bold as to just make a stupid statement like: every Pakistani wanting to convert to hinduism, sheesh! How stupid is that? Learn to have an argument without bringing religion in, and then let`s see how brainy and/or manly you really are! Something to think about. Hmm?

Is being nice so very impossible for you?

You try and have a nice day.

Kiran

hamzad saheb #29:

Guilty on both counts. :) LafzoN sey khailney ka khatarnaak shauq paal rekha hay.

harimau #27:

Sure let me explain, (as if it needs any more explaining)when you [or anyone for that matter] comment on politics, which is more often than not a discussion in vain, made up of mud-slinging and spewing bile, I don`t care. When you get personal with others, and outright insult them, I don`t care either, but to be so bold as to just make a stupid statement like: every Pakistani wanting to convert to hinduism, sheesh! How stupid is that? Learn to have an argument without bringing religion in, and then let`s see how brainy and/or manly you really are! Something to think about. Hmm?

Is being nice so very impossible for you?

You try and have a nice day.

Kiran

YES SUX SENA THERE IS FREEDOM IN INDIA ,YOU CAN DO ANYTHING YOU WANT...........

You are here: Hindustantimes.com News January 04, 2002, Friday

Mumbai singer lured to Delhi and raped



A Mumbai stage artiste who was invited to Delhi for a live performance at a musical concert was gang raped by six men masquerading as the show’s organisers.

The artiste (name withheld) was kept in captivity at the Parwana Road office of the organisers in the Jagatpuri area of trans-Yamuna till Thursday. But when she was being shifted to another location in Patparganj, she managed to call up a relative in Delhi, who informed the police about the incident.

The 24-year-old artiste was gang raped on New Year’s Eve after she unwittingly consumed an intoxicant-laced cold drink served to her by the show`s organisers on her arrival in Delhi.

The Deputy Commissioner of Police (East), Manoj Kumar Lall, said: ``We have registered a case of rape against the six men. During the raids on the premises of the accused persons, we rescued yet another Mumbai-based artiste from the clutches of this inter-state gang of flesh traders.``

``Although it is a bit too early to draw conclusions, preliminary investigations suggest that the gang lures stage artistes from Mumbai and later pushes them into the flesh trade,`` he added.

The artiste is reported to have told the police that she had been working as a stage performer in Mumbai. About a fortnight ago, in a beer bar in Mumbai, she came across two persons who introduced themselves as Anil and Bittoo.

The duo reportedly told her that they were from Delhi and were into the business of organising musical evenings. Lured by the money offered to her, she agreed to be in Delhi on the New Year’s Eve for a musical show.

The rescued girl told the police that she reached Delhi on December 31 and contacted the duo on their mobile phones. She was picked up by the two men and taken to their Parwana Road office. They were joined there by four other men.

The artiste has alleged after she became a bit tipsy, Bittoo raped her. Later one by one, the five other men also raped her. She was then locked up inside the office. The next day, when Bittoo went to the office to serve her food, she reportedly told him that she would be reporting the matter to the police.

According to her, Bittoo claimed that would be to no avail as they had destroyed all the evidence. Even her undergarments had been burnt. She was kept locked in the office for two more days before she was finally shifted to a house in Patparganj.

The police said that the duo had struck a deal to sell her to a brothel on GB Road, Delhi’s red-light area. But before the deal could be executed, the artiste managed to make a phone call to one of her relatives in Delhi.

So far the police have arrested one of the accused and are on a lookout for the others, who are absconding.

Shakti Sharma

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Kiran---#25

Do I suspect a poet or a writer somewhere here.Your description was ``picturesque``.Enjoyed it!

And the guy had earned every bit of it.

Thanx.

Ref 15-head-AAmir #: 26

[I HAVEN`T SEEN EVIDENCE OF ITS PRESENCE EVER ...HE HE HE ;-))) ]

Nor have I seen the presence of a brain in any of your 15 heads.

Ref Kiran- #: 25

[harimau #2:

One can ignore your ignorant remarks only so much. You sir, are in dire need of help.]

Exactly what part of post #2 is ignorant? Can you elucidate?

[I suggest either going to a shrink ASAP]

Don`t tell me you are the headshrinker trolling for potential patients on the Chowk.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

harimau #2:

One can ignore your ignorant remarks only so much. You sir, are in dire need of help. I suggest either going to a shrink ASAP or sticking your finger up your nose, and trying to get that last morsel of gray matter out, which surely must be rotting for decades now.

harimau #2:

One can ignore your ignorant remarks only so much. You sir, are in dire need of help. I suggest either going to a shrink ASAP or sticking your finger up your nose, and trying to get that last morsel of gray matter out, which surely must be rotting for decades now.

Ref scout #: 23

[What makes you so sure all Pakistani Muslims were converted from Hinduism?]

When the first sultans arrived in India and called the country Hindustan, they only ruled over Punjab. Clearly, Punjab was therefore the land of the Hindus!

[Did the stay in Buffalo freeze your few brain cells]

Cold is a preservative, as you well know.

Happy New Year!

harimau #2, ``Forced conversions is wrong. Well, that would mean about 950 million Muslims will return to the religions of their forefathers. All Pakistanis will become Hindus.``

What makes you so sure all Pakistani Muslims were converted from Hinduism? Did the stay in Buffalo freeze your few brain cells or are you one of those Hindu supremacist types..... there are enough supremacists in the world, so please step down from the podium and take your seat with us normal people.

Mr. Ali, you highlighted an issue that needs to be resolved as soon as possible. Nobody should be forced into marriage -- it is simply inhuman, there`s no other word for it. I`m glad Narina and her sisters took the stand for their rights.

Your report, however, was extremely brief and needed more details. Maybe if no other fact was at your disposal, then just a couple of more quotes would have done.

Regards,

Kiran

Pyar kiye jaa,

I see that you haven`t improved one bit. And you call yourself a Hindu.

Do yourself a favor in this new year. First, try to be a human being. Then, find out what the essence of Hinduism is. May be your mind will expand a little, and the hatred in your heart will shrink just a tiny bit. Otherwise, for God`s sake, don`t call yourself a Hindu.

Best regards.

Tariq Ali

Ignorance, politics of sexual power and sexual shame deserve greater attention in Pakistan and among Muslims in general.

What is needed to effect a change in the thinking, are the creation of awareness, particularly of the elements of sexual power and sexual shame, changes in the way men and especially women make a living and time.

I have not met anybody who was forced to marry another person, but among friends in the UK (Kashmiri) I did become aware of the norm (with the very strong ``encouragement`` of their family elders) of girls marrying men, usually related, from the ancestoral village in Pakistan. The problem is obvious, girls used to living in a relatively free, ``liberated`` society, earning and supporting their families, accepting marriage with men, ususally quite a bit older, with a very different (village background, outlook, experience) perception of what life will be like, and they end up traumatized by the constricted experience of life after marriage.

It`s sad that such cultural, paraochial practices are being encouraged and legitimated by assigning label ``Islamic`` to these practices. Certainly parents think their daughters marrying within the faith is a necessity (for all sorts of reasons) but at no time do they actively encourage their daughters to be exposed to a larger number of eligible Muslim or Pakistani men within the communities they actually live in.

For instance, Masajid have failed to accept a role as a center for the building faith for both genders and have also failed to see their responsibility to act as a community center, within which Muslims can become aware of the resources available to them. Social functions may not have been a priority for leaders of the Masajid, but it must become one, if coersion is to disassociated with experience of significant numbers of Muslim girls, not just in the UK.

Masajid can serve as a resource as well as center for creating an awareness of the problem, of ways to deal with the problem and also to create an awareness that marrying off what by all criteria are ``little girls`` (their age is what I have in mind) they do a great disservice to their daughters who must be fully equipped educationally (technically and morally) to be able to accept the challenge of living in societies driven primarily by technological change, and values of materialism and secular humanism. No amount of coersion can prevent exposure to these forces and only education, technical and moral, can serve persons to make choices.

Jay

You certainly know a great deal of Islam - which Madressah did you go to?

This email joke has been circulating among friends; thought it was a well deserved giggle....

Subject: THE COMPANY`S CHRISTMAS PARTY

December 1st

TO: ALL EMPLOYEES

I`m happy to inform you that the company Christmas Party will take place on

December 23rd at Luigi`s Open Pit Barbecue. There will be lots of spiked

eggnog and a small band playing traditional carols ... feel free to sing

along. And don`t be surprised if our CEO shows up dressed as Santa Claus to

light the Christmas tree! Exchange of gifts among employees can be done at

that time; however, no gift should be over $10. Merry Christmas to you and

your family.

Patty Lewis Human Resources Director



December 2nd

TO: ALL EMPLOYEES

In no way was yesterday`s memo intended to exclude our Jewish employees. We

recognize that Hanukkah is an important holiday that often coincides with

Christmas (though unfortunately not this year). However, from now on we`re

calling it our ``Holiday Party.`` The same policy applies to employees who

are celebrating Kwanzaa at this time. There will be no Christmas tree and

no Christmas carols sung. Happy Holidays to you and your family.

Patty Lewis Human Resources Director



December 3rd

TO: ALL EMPLOYEES

Regarding the anonymous note I received from a member of Alcoholics

Anonymous requesting a non-drinking table, I`m happy to accommodate this

request, but, don`t forget, if I put a sign on the table that reads, ``AA

Only,`` you won`t be anonymous anymore. In addition, forget about the gifts

exchange-no gifts will be allowed since the union members feel that $10 is

too much money.

Patty Lewis Human Researchers Director



December 7th

TO: ALL EMPLOYEES

I`ve arranged for members of Overeaters Anonymous tosit farthest from the

dessert buffet and pregnant women closest to the restrooms. Gays are

allowed to sit with each other. Lesbians do not have to sit with the gay

men; each will have their table. Yes, there will be a flower arrangement

for the gay men`s table. Happy now?

Patty Lewis Human Racehorses Director



December 9th

TO: ALL EMPLOYEES

People, people-nothing sinister was intended by wanting our CEO to play

Santa Claus! Even if the anagram of ``Santa`` does happen to be ``Satan,``

there is no evil connotation to our own ``little man in a red suit.``

Patty Lewis Human Ratraces



December 10th

TO: ALL EMPLOYEES

Vegetarians-I`ve had it with you people!! We`re going to hold this party at

Luigi`s Open Pit whether you like it or not, you can just sit at the table

farthest from the ``grill of death,`` as you put it, and you`ll get salad bar

only, including hydroponic tomatoes. But, you know, tomatoes have feelings,

too. They scream when you slice them. I`ve heard them scream. I`m hearing

them right now... Ha! I hope you all have a rotten holiday! Drive drunk and

die, you hear me?

The B * * * from H * * *



December 14th

TO: ALL EMPLOYEES

I`m sure I speak for all of us in wishing Patty Lewis a speedy recovery

from her stress-related illness. I`ll continue to forward your cards to her

at the sanitarium. In the meantime, management has decided to cancel our

Holiday Party and give everyone the afternoon of the 23rd off with full pay.

Terri Bishop Acting Human Resources Director

Mr. Ali, you highlighted an issue that needs to be resolved as soon as possible. Nobody should be forced into marriage -- it is simply inhuman, there`s no other word for it. I`m glad Narina and her sisters took the stand for their rights.

Your report, however, was extremely brief and needed more details. Maybe if no other fact was at your disposal, then just a couple of more quotes would have done.

Regards,

Kiran

Jay #7

``, follow the path of jinnah and Imran khan, both benefitted from the wealth of their wives.``

Dear Jay,

That`s below the belt.FYI the only one benefitting

from their wives wealth are the Hindus(lucky you).

The Muslas have to pay the ``Mehr`` to the girls:(

Happy New Year.

This problem of forced marriages has been epidemic in Muslim households since the prophet forced his adopted son to give up his wife so that he (the prophet Mohammad) could marry her (his son`s wife)- a tradition of forced sexual control has since then been practiced by every civilization infected with Islamic ideaology.

I know of relatives to whom this happened and I myself was kidnapped and imprisoned in my own house in karachi (by my parents) who tried to convert me back to Islam using physical abuse and mental torture (including drugs). Ofcourse I converted back to Islam and I am so happy now :)
:)

re: AAmir

{about how muslims could NOT have been coverted without force ,but facts dont favour your theory.}

would a sword up your behind convert you into a human being first?

Again Mr. Afaqui, your ability (which incidentally, you share with an unfortunately addled interactor, who is so well known, it shall go unnamed) to completely miss the point is breathtaking... M`ashallah! Here`s hoping the New Year brings clarity to you...

Mr. Ali,

Thanks for the article, it was quite interesting. Any class,or regional indicators in these cases? Additionally, since these forced marriages seem to affect young women the most, there is an unmistakable gender control dynamic to this phenomena. Are there any women focused grassroots orgs. (in the US we have Sakhi, Mannavi, Upna Ghar) involved in these cases that might have additional analyses?

Happy New Years Everybody!

Harimau, Jay,

Reconverting to Hinduism after one has become a Muslim is akin to a human devolving to hanuman.

unkal jay:

``There was no need for you to state that you are not the famous tariq ali, your article says it all, you are a ninicompoomp``

really unkal jay..if u must copy the terms i use at least use them properly..its not ninicompoop..its nincompoop

Dec-31-01 21:7:37 EST Reply #: 7

jay.

````You have no idea about islam, first join some madrassa and learn.

A muslim woman seeing a non-muslim is a honourkilling crime. Imagine the muslim girl converting to another religion. ``]]

Its not Tariq who needs to learn but ninicoompoop like you.This btw is AnNys favourite vocabulary ,& she as a muslim women can teach you few things herself

Hindu Women VS Muslim Women

The Brahmins make a big campaign that Islam restricts the freedom of

women. Let us compare the positions of the Hindu woman and the Muslim

woman. See the following facts for comparison and then try to bring

these Brahmins to their senses.

The Hindu Woman:

1. The Hindu Woman has no right to divorce her husband.

2. She has no property or inheritance rights.

3. Choice of partner is limited because she can only marry within her

own caste; moreover her horoscope must match that of the intending

bridegroom/family.

4. The family of the girl has to offer an enormous dowry to the

bridegroom/family.

5. If her husband dies she should commit Sati (being cremated with her

dead husband). Since today`s law forbids Sati, society mainly punishes

her in other ``holy`` ways (see below).

6. She cannot remarry.

7. The widow is considered to be a curse and must not be seen in public.

She cannot wear jewelry or colourful clothes. (She should not even take

part in her children`s marriage!)

8. Child and infant marriage is encouraged.

The Muslim Woman:

1.The Muslim woman has the same right as the Muslim man in all matters

including divorce.

2. She enjoys property and inheritance rights. (Which other religion

grants women these rights?). She can also conduct her own separate

business.

3. She can marry any Muslim of her choice. If her parents choose a

partner for her, her consent must be taken.

4. The dowry in Islam is a gift from a husband to his wife (not the

other way around as is practiced by some ignorant Muslims).

5. A Muslim widow is encouraged to remarry, and her remarriage is the

responsibility of the Muslim society.

6.Mixed marriage is encouraged and is a means to prevent racism creeping

in society.

7. A Muslim mother is given the highest form of respect.

What right do the Hindus have to criticize the Muslims? Have you ever

heard of a Muslim burning his wife? In India women die daily of dowry

deaths, Hindu women being burnt by the husband or in-laws. It is a fact

that upper caste Hindus ill-treat their women. The Brahmins are trying

to claim that Muslims do not give freedom to their women. I ask you

again. ``Do the Hindus respect their women?``

You be the judge.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts