Borders are Made of These

Anny # 172

May I suggest that you should stay away from achaar, imli, and other khatai, not because now you are a big girl but because it seems to weaken the eye sight and also the reading comprehension.

I agree that some Sikhs are funny but Please refrain from casting the whole race of people as jokers just because of their shaving habbits etc..

nasah saab (#180):

More than an apology, I need understanding. But thank you all the same. By instinct and choice I am not a fence-sitter; I think the context of that comment has been misunderstood. It is the need not to believe in silly borders that fence the mind.

And I do not sulk :) Do the following comments appear as though I do?

“Why was I put off? Because he assumed that a nikaah was the only way to get married. That being a man he had the right to decide. I realised that we have a long way to go.”

“Does being Indian or Pakistani, Hindu or Muslim mean that you have to completely overhaul yourself to be accepted by another who claims to love you? Does love mean anything at all?”

“Is this about the Quran? The Vedas? I am at a loss because I cannot accept that we should blame others for our problems.”

“I do not believe in fighting a battle on borrowed ideas.”

“Please keep me on the fence. From here I shall make my own borders – that hazy line where the sky meets the sea.”

The operative phrase is “make my own borders”.

Regards,

Farzana

PS: The other quote was a back-handed compliment to mixed marriages. No two opinions about that.

Stuka (#171):

How can you be such a gadaar? You have the time to come on a “Pakistani site” and watch me spread the poison, but cannot send a simple mail to the venomous viper herself :) Hadd kar di. About power cuts and horrible internet access, what do you expect in your village….they call it Dilli, no? So you got ripped off at Athena. You would. That is the place to be seen and to watch those who wish to be seen doing their act. But don’t you think even the touts in Mumbai are classy?? Hey, while you are in Delhi, just go to the DGC and with a blade rip off that rexine upholstery. When I get there I will know you had visited. Then we shall come on a “Pakistani site” and exchange notes, ok?

AnNy (#172):

You manhoos Paki…I love you so ;)

dont act cheeky with me urstruly

my readinng and writing comprehension are just fine yet i fail to comprehend why you insist on insulting anothers religion repeatedly. as i mentioned, i have no problem with you taking digs at the indians- go right ahead. but when u start saying things about their gods, calling them things i will not write here inspite of all the imli and achaar, i dont like it. because u claim to be a musalmaan and then u act like a jhangli. its embarasing.

u remember/have heard of maula ali`s saying (not verbatim) `kabhi kissee kae khuda ko jhoota nahin bolna- kaheen woh tumharae sachae khuda ko jhoota na boldae`

there are quite a few lessons to be learnt from this...eat some imlee and they just might hit you

“Pakistani site”
a site where Pakistanis (who will NEVER vote in an election in India) write long articles and posts about human rights violations, political affairs and caste system and Dalits in India?

Get it? No?
Over the last many weeks/months you have repeatedly used this argument to dismiss viewpoints that those who express them no longer live in India(though you have no idea about their personal histories), and so you are right and they are wrong. Its your prerogative to do so, but a honest person shouldnot mind it being pointed out that, at the same time, there are many who express views about India, who have NEVER lived in India and never will, but whose views are accepted as very valid by you nevertheless.

Its bad enough if YOU are asked to leave your country or your views dismissed merely because of your religion. Thats has happened more than a few times here. But after having faced this, its sad if you turn around and do the same thing to others.

nasah:

Ref: Karailey ka achaar

the only karailey ka achaar iv tasted is here in karachi- my bari khala makes the most delicious achaars especially her gajar ka achaar...but i dont like karaela so much...but there is no achaar like the leembo ka achaar this 80 year old bua makes at the haveli in ahmedabad...youre left licking yur fingers and craving like crazy for more after a whole bottle thatll give ulcers to anyone...if u are somewhere in the U.S, do buy ahmed ka mirchi achaar (chilly pickle:)) its mind blowing

f:

am munching on the most delicious pringles ever as i write this ;)

Talking of ``Borders``, can any Indian please explain to me the rationale of going to war with Pakistan over the the attack on the Parliament? After all, what is the big deal about attacking a building?

Let me elaborate. In 1999, during the Kargil affair, the military tried it`s best to convince the political establishment that crossing the LOC was an imperative need. At that time, crossing the LOC would have resulted in a flanking movement and would also have resulted in additional pressure on Pakistani positions. However, the political establishment of India decided that due to international pressure, and also to mantain ``sanctity of line of control``, it was essential for the Indian Army to launch suicidal frontal attacks without any regard for the number of officers and men lost.

Now, take a look at the present situation. Not a single MP, Minister etc was killed. But just the fear of death is now provoking them to talk of war. What happened to the ``sanctity of the line of control``? Does the LOC become sanctified only when military lives are to be lost? Personally speaking, if the attack had been successful, and 200-300 haramzada politicians had been killed, I would have been very happy, and would have gone around shaking the hand of every Paki I knew, just to express my gratitude at the huge favor being done to India.

But that`s just me. Other Indians, fine, you may think that`s a bit much, but why don`t I see any form of indignation at the blatant hypocrisy of our political establishment?

If not the citizens, at least the military should be more forceful about this. Or, are the generals too busy playing golf and brown nosing politicians for post retirement benefits, while the captains, the majors and the brave Jawans lose their lives in battle?

Talking of acchars, is this the same Roopak store on Ajmal Khan Road which used to stock absolutely delicious acchars, with walls lined with them, including the wonderful hari-mirch and lal-mirch.. It had a front window which was decorated with almonds.. btw, there is this VERY spicy Punjabi? dish called acchar-key-aloo..

re: Stuka

Your post vindicates the wisdom of Churchill`s dictum: `War is too serious a business to be left to Generals`. The politicians had it right in Kargil, and seem to be doing the right things again.

Re: Dost-Mittarji

Yes, indeed, meeting would be nice. BTW, my family is still in Karol Bagh, in the same 60-year old house. It was one of the first homes in Karol Bagh, and will probably be the last to be demolished. My 96-year old Sialkoti dadi refuses to move. I too insisted, that the baraat for my wedding leave from the same house at my wedding a few years ago.

Unsubstantiated legend has it that Karol Bagh was named after the daughter of one of the British Viceroys. Her name was Carol.

Re: Sadna

You have to coordinates of Roopak Store right.

stuka # 198

Funny you should say that. Just yesterday a friend was in rages complaining that Pakistani inefficiency has again left our parliamentarians alive :)

As to the antics of our politicians with respect to our military,, the Indian system is basically one of the oppression of the military by our third-rate politicians. I can`t recall off the cuff who, but an American scholar has expanded on that concept; and has evaluated the pros and cons of such an arrangment versus the opposite model followed by our friends across the border.

````there is this VERY spicy Punjabi? dish called acchar-key-aloo..````(sadna)

Now munh meiN panee a rahaa hai -- is this dish available in US? - or do you have the recipe Sadna?

Farzana #193

PS: The other quote was a back-handed compliment to mixed marriages. No two opinions about that



From rediff, June 16,1997: Farzana Versey; AntiView)

“The best thing after patriotism is secularism. Of course, one can conveniently, like the good English bishop, say, ``God said love your neighbour; he did not say love Marks and Spencer.``

SECULARISM=ELMINATION OF RELIGOUS ELEMENT FROM LIFE (New Websters Expanded Dictionary)

Roughly translated into our context, it could mean we may tolerate the bloke next door for his saffron or green colour, but we do not have to suffer the whole damned community. The problem is we think we are being grand. Secularism, in our contemporary context, is not a virtue. It is a Necessity. It should be propagated in the same way as family planning, self-reliance, ecology, health care and adult education, instead of a morally right position.

ONLY IN INDIA ,WHERE THEREIS A LARGE DIFFERING ETHNIC RELIGOUS DIVERSE GROUPS.HINDUISM IS NOT SECULAR NEITHER ISLAM BUT INDIA B/C OF ITS COMPOSITION IN WHICH NEITHER HINDU HAD A SAY NOR PLANNED BY ANY INDIAN BY INVITATION.

Those who marry across religions must be given similar privileges as those reserved for the scheduled castes and tribes. Their offspring should be provided state backup, whether in education, health or taxation. In fact, the state must encourage private elite institutions where these children can be educated without being tainted by our national obsession with party vengeance.

SO THAT MINORITY WILL BE FIRST TO BE DILUTED BY THE MAJORITY BY ENGULFING THE FEW BY THE MOST .GANDHI WAS AGAINST INTER RELIGOUS MARRIAGES.ITS CHILD ABUSE NOT TO SPEAK OF THE MARRIAGE ABUSE ITSELF.YOU WANT REWARD FOR MIX MARRIAGE WHEN IT IS NOT GOOD FOR ANYONE.

For secularism to be a success, it must work on the principle of reward rather than punishment. Very often, in the course of trying to sweep away the dust, we tuck it under the carpet whereas a positive wind of change can gently blow it away. To antagonize any community cannot be the motive of secularism. As has already been understood, religion circumscribes various other realities and, in the process, subsumes them. As one commentator pointed out, we mistakenly equate freedom of religion with freedom from religion. In the current situation, this is not universally accepted. Even an open Hindutva

FREEDOM OF RELIGION IS NOT SECULARISM.USA HAS FREEDOM OF RELIGION BUT IT NEVER CALLED ITSELF SECULAR DEMOCRACY LIKE THE INDIAN

supporter permitted himself some magnanimity when he stated elsewhere, ``The Muslim belief in the finality of God`s revelation in the Koran and in Mohammed`s prophecy is at odds with the spirit of Indian civilisation. But Indian civilisation is large enough to accommodate it.``

ITS INDIAS FATE THAT IT IS MULTI ETHNIC MULTI RELIGOUS MULTI RASCIAL NO INDIAN NO HINDU INVITED SPECIFICALLY TO HAVE SUCH A PARTY IN INDIA OF MULTIPLICITY .

Which is where the issue of small fundamentalist organizations and secularism arises. We have to see this in the context of minority power. Were a black person to marry a white person in a predominantly white community, the white person would get all the applause as well as have to bear the brunt of the backlash. Evolution itself depends largely on the

BLACK & WHITE ARE NOT RELIGIONS .ISSUES OF BLACK IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WHEN YOU HAVE A BLACK MUSLIM MARRYING A WHITE MUSLIM.

numbers game. While the majority can contain others, (and must, for magnanimity is possible only when you have the largesse) the minority has problems containing itself.

MAJORITY HAVE ADVANTAGE OF SURVIVING THE ATTRITION EITHER BY MIX MARRIAGES OR INDULGENCE IN SECULARISM,SPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE 5 TIMES MORE THAN YOUR NEAREST MINORITY .ENOUGH WILL SURVIVE NO MATTER WHAT.

For example, the Islamic Sevak Sangh had to pluck its members from the madrasas (religious schools) and unemployment rolls in Kerala. And its founder has stated, on record, that the Muslim League had done nothing for the Muslim community. But the RSS has always had considerable support from the BJP and VHP. In this combine, it could, at least until recently, be respected by a large section of the middle-class intelligentsia.

RSS BJP ARE FROM HINDU MAHASABHA ,JAN SANGH FOUNDED BY SHYAMA PRASAD MUKHERJEE ANTI MUSLIM LIKE PT.MALVIA,ETC

But religion per se cannot give anyone an identity in the fluctuating late 20th century society. It can only provide the much-dreaded moral fibre and a mistakenly-interpreted formula for living. Besides, it does colour our interpretation of the world.”

NO PROBLEM THERE

Prem #203 ``the Indian system is basically one of the oppression of the military by our third-rate politicians. ``

Better than than vice versa.

Bijli khanum -- wait till you fall in LOVE with a Hindu!!

I was going to begin a countdown: Since Blair is visiting the region, we can expect some kind of oh-so-conveniently-timed attack, `hijacking`, heavier-than-usual-firing -- India is BOUND to produce SOME kind of incident. I`m a little late with the countdown apparantly : a `spy`plane has been shot down over Kashmir by India. (Supposedly Pakistani). Is it true? CAN it be .... (gasp!!) Pakistani? Will we see the wreckage with the green and white and the crescent? Will the painted markings reveal the date of their being painted and the artist`s name and price tag?? Or is the `incident` to be yet to take place? Be extra vigilant, everyone in the region - that`s all I can say.

I was going to begin a countdown: Since Blair is visiting the region, we can expect some kind of oh-so-conveniently-timed attack, `hijacking`, heavier-than-usual-firing -- India is BOUND to produce SOME kind of incident. I`m a little late with the countdown apparantly : a `spy`plane has been shot down over Kashmir by India. (Supposedly Pakistani). Is it true? CAN it be .... (gasp!!) Pakistani? Will we see the wreckage with the green and white and the crescent? Will the painted markings reveal the date of their being painted and the artist`s name and price tag?? Or is the `incident` to be yet to take place? Be extra vigilant, everyone in the region - that`s all I can say.