Borders are Made of These

nasah #204
I only just came across this, so be warned :)
http://www.ndtvcooks.com/recipes/vegetablerecipe.asp?id=18&name=Achar+Ke+Aloo

nasah # 207

nasah bhai, why must you wish such misfortune to our friend? Aakhir (hmmm.. why does that remind me of Aamir?), islamic purity bhi koi cheez hoti hai :)

tahmed321 # 206

Agreed. Oppression of the military of the kind found in India does lead to some pathologies - corruption, inefficiencies, delays, (sometimes) reduced quality of both military training and hardware, and increased military frustration/decreased morale. Nevertheless, I would rather have an inefficient military than a military that dominates collective existence.

In a way, this is the age-old problem of balancing efficiency (doing things right) and effectiveness (doing right things).

sadna

“Farzana

Why do you write for a site where Pakistanis (who will NEVER vote in an election in India) write long articles and posts about human rights violations, political affairs and caste system and Dalits in India? Going by those whom you keep slapping down for being expatriate and still daring to speak here, its only Hindu Indians who should keep quiet according to you. Congratulations and keep spreading the poison!”

….sadna, this isn’t some sort of us vs. them contest…it’s about learning and understanding the other’s pain and point of view about…(yes, you can roll your eyes) …if it bothers you that pakistanis write about “human rights violations, political affairs and caste system and Dalits in India”, you’re more than welcome to right about all of pakistan’s ills (which should keep you more than occupied) or the things that you love about india….

RE: Peace Vigil in San Jose.

Well Mr. Chandan.

I will try and answer your (accusations) in the order you have made them.

Chandan: I was the only Indian ``present`` there. Everyone else was from Pakistan. Rest of the people present there were pretending as if they were representing American Indian voices too. They could not even bring any of their Indian friends (if they have any). Carrying the Indian flag they wanted to pretend to passing by people that they were mixture of Indians and * * * * * .. This thing was really deceptive.

-SK: I am an Indian. So there goes your deception theory. By the way half the people over there were Indians or married to one.

If your definition of an Indian is only ``Hindu`` then I have to say at least there were 4 of them. Not to say the least that a lot of them joined for small intervals in our chants of ``NO MORE WAR`` ``PEACE NOW``. In this case all your claims to being Hindu and Muslims being brothers etc are fading way very quickly.

Chandan: There was not a single mention of terrorism in the placards. As if to say that there is a war to start in South Asia out of blue, may be just because Indians and * * * * * hate each other. Basically agenda rather than ``peace`` was ``save pakistan``.

-SK: In war obviously there are two people fighting. The whole theme was no political statements. We just want peace and better sense to prevail. Is that too difficult to comprehend.

chandan:I had a poster criticizing ``military dictatorships`` and saying ``Indians and * * * * * are one``, I was accused of being ``divisive``, ``anti-peace`` and ``with hidden agenda``. So I guess another agenda was ``save mr. musharraf`` and keep floating the theory that muslim-hindu are separate people.

-SK: As I said the theme was to avert war. Give two hoots to anything else. If there is going to be war then the remaining people if any can make that decision for themselves. All we tried to tell you was that your views were misplaced not inappropriate. Besides the existence of Pakistan is a fact. Lets just be realistic here. I guess ``Mushraff is the evil doer to all what is wrong in India?``. If they are Hindus and Muslims doesn`t it mean that they are different as one would call a Christian being different from a Muslim or a Jew.

Chandan:One of the organizer tried to read some crappy article from WPost basically whose import was ``hey Indians are basically Hindus and India-Pak difference is between hindus and muslims..``. When will * * * * * start looking at the census figures. Sorry to break the news guys. For decades in India more muslims live than in Pakistan and even so more peacefully than any where, with more democratic rights than anywhere. So please stop giving BS that India-Pak dispute is abt Hindu-Muslim.

-SK: I guess if you were paying more attention you would have realized it was an article about the last bus journey from India to Pakistan. There are muslims living in India and in a lot of other countries which are democratic in nature. None of the people over there said the war was about Hindus and Muslims. Get off you high horse. In your infinite wisdom you are imagining things. You have formed that opinion yourself. By the way dispute is about Kashmir. A piece of land which has the democratic right to self determination in a democratic country.

Chandan:It seems organizers had special affinity to ``two nation theory``. The basic point was even if a nation is attacked and engaged in proxy wars for years, it should still maintain ``peace``. I Wonder organizers ever called for peace when innocent people get butchered by terrorists. Only when there is talk of retaliation from India, it seems they hear their scared relatives in Pakistan and then come out to talk about ``peace

-SK: You have to get your data correct. More than 60000 civilians (Muslims) have died most by the hands of Indian Security forces. No Independent news journalists and Amnesty International is allowed into that region. If your talking about proxies lets take India. India has done it with Pakistan in 1971. So should I take the liberty and call India what? and the military incursion into Sri Lanka. You have any idea how many people died in 1971.

Chandan: Ok guys lick the * * * * * of Bush or whoever powerful you can find around the world to save your terrorist regime or jehadi brothers.

But let me tell you if you expect India would behave cowardly just to give ``peace`` to terrorists, forget it. I dont care abt holocaust, even if all my near and dear ones might get affected, but we do need to respond to this fascist evil scourge of Jehadism and free our * * * * brothers from it too. So yearn for the final war, so that your dear ones back in Desh have future in peace and prosperity.

-SK: All what I have to say ``Your entire purpose at the peace vigil was ``Lets have a war. Which in some way translates to your perverted version of peace. Nice going. I wish you haven`t showed up at all.`` It was people like you who convinced a lot of people, who were not convinced, in the 1940`s that India should be divided.Read your history, the unbiased ones.. Tone down the rehtoric and stop halucinating about victory. In a nuclear war there is no victory. Everybody is a loser.

Here is the bottom line ``For everything you are saying there is a counter argument. Our theme and feeling is/was lets stop the madness. Work out your differences. Hope I am clear in responding.

Again what ever you believe, like to believe its your business. But please give peace and sense a chance to prevail before passing judgements. If someone like you can make mountains out of moles then what I can say. Makes me kind of wonder: Why can`t the two countries live in peace and harmony?

You tell me?

Farzana:

Mumbai is Cool, Delhi s *cks. This is the truth. Will elaborate. Athena is a cool place, nice women an all, but still overpriced. Had the best tangdis, boti kababs, seekhs at an all night joint close by.

Prem: Seriously, Bloody Pakis, true enemies of India, couldn`t even do one favor for us.

Shammi: Pardon my lack of understanding, but how can the politicians be right both now and during Kargil? That time they were against the crossing of the LOC, inspite of specific tactical advantages, and today they want to cross the LOC, WITHOUT ANY SPECIFIC TACTICAL ADVANTAGE?? This time, it is the army, which has mobilized, yes, but only under political dictation. The military has made it known that it is not in favor of crossing the LOC as it would not accrue into military gain.

TAhmed: Thanks for the best wishes. I am in Delhi, going to Amritsar tonite. Will be at the Wagah Attari border tommorrow, to catch the first glimpse of Pakistan. :) Going back on the 15th.

semipreciousme #214
You seem to have misunderstood my comments to Farzana, I suggest you read them again. Anyone in the world is free to comment on things Indian, as far as I am concerned.

Freedom Fighters, Keep up the good work. Of course, we know all of this is being carried

out by Indian goverment agents. Wadera -- please add your authoritative insight in this space.



[FROM DAWN]

Mujahideen kill six members of Hindu family: JAMMU, Jan 07: Six members of a Hindu family, including four children, were killed today by Mujahideen in Kashmir, army officials said. The attackers threw hand grenades and opened fire at a house in Banihal village, 160 kilometres north of Jammu, Lieutenant Colonel H.S. Oberoi said. He said Mujahideen were responsible for the attack, though he did not identify any particular group. (AFP) (Posted @ 16:25 PST)

re: salmakhan # 215

Hey, Mr. Khan, it was wonderful that you as an Indian, along with other Indians of all faiths, were present at the peace rally. Were I nearby, I too would have joined you, giving further lie to our friend`s arguments. We should do our very best to avoid war, not ad infinitum, but as long as possible.

But when we are talking of avoiding war, rightly IMO, let us have on record your views on proxy war that has also killed howsoever many people (muslims only?) as you mentioned? It seems a bit odd to oppose war if it were to be initiated by India and support it if it is launched by Pakistan.

Regards.

Re: Stuka

``...Pardon my lack of understanding, but how can the politicians be right both now and during Kargil?...``

Elementary, my dear Watson! War, without clear pre-determined political objectives, is useless. Military `victories` that do not result in attaining political objectives are really defeats. Political strategy has to drive war objectives, not the other way around. That is why von Clausewitz (heard of him?) called it `continuation of state policy through other means`. India`s objectives viz-a-viz Kashmir are to (a) convert LoC to border, and (b) stop cross-border terrorism. In `99, by exhibiting restraint on the LoC, India earned global appreciation while Pakistan came to be seen as an unstable, nuclear, reckless, adventurist state. Kargil did more to firm-up the LoC as a legally-recognized separation than any other Indian action since `71. It also made Pakistan`s protestations about its lack of support for terrorism less tenable. By the same token, Pakistan`s antics in Kargil were probably blessed as being tactically brilliant by some Pakistani General, but a lack of understanding of the larger world in which everyone (including they) have to operate in proved to be disastrous for them. Ditto for Indian Generals who were raring to go -- the politicians knew that capturing or holding on to PoK is not India`s political objective, and doing so would undermine the entire LoC (which the Pakistanis wanted to do anyway). Their enthusiasm needed to be tempered.

Now the world is focused on terrorism like never before. Terrorism is no longer an acceptable modus-operandi for any cause, and Musharraf cannot easily make the case for JeM/LeT like he could earlier. The J&K Assembly and the Parliament attack (coupled with the Bush doctrine of legitimizing war to counter terror) makes it diplomatically feasible for India to threaten war if Pakistan does not crack down on its home-grown jehadis. Thus, the world has an easier time pressuring Musharraf to crack down on the same, than in asking India to restrain itself. That is what seems to be happening.

Very few Generals would have figured all of this out. They are unable to capitalize on `diplomatic` power, and rely solely on the power they have -- ie military. Ever heard the saying -- `give a child a hammer, and everything looks like a nail`? Thus, Churchill`s dictum `War is too serious a business to be left to the Generals` rings true even today.

Enjoy your stay in India.

SalmaKhan

I wish the Indian Hindu majority had also a live conscience like yourself. I think the day I will read such a post from a Hindu, I will lose my eye-sight.

Farzana, if I can back up my statements with why I like Pakistanis I will surely do that. So far, I have no reason to like them because

1) they don`t believe in equality of all religions.

2) they don`t believe in peaceful co-existence

3) they don`t mind resorting to terror tactics to achieve what they want

4) On top of all that they are downright liars and hypocrites

My question to you again is when did Vajpayee ask you to hate Pakistanis just because they happen to be Pakistanis?

Also, if I come and tell you that I like somebody who has looted your house what is your reaction going to be? Are you going to hug me for my open mindedness?

anNy#172;

[and sikhs are some of the funniest people ever...]

- Not as funny as you Pakis...

anNy#172;

Speaking of aachars, in my opinion the best thing to ever come out of Pakistan is ``Ahmeds Pickles`` from Karachi. Their aamb da aachar is so good I can get through a jar of that stuff myself in a week.

To all war-haters (aka wagah-candle-lighters, new-year-chanters, peace-bell-ringers)

what is your definition of war?

``Not as funny as you Pakis...``

Harpreet are u getting cute with me again? I`m not sure. Pls tell me if you are because i dont like such cheek and that also coming from young men like yourself who I eat for breakfast. If, however that was a compliment, thank u very much. We are indeed, a great people.

dosmittarjee:

I was waiting to write after having confirmed the aloo ka achaar. There is an aloo ka achaar and it is different from the khatae aloo others on the board are talking off. My aunt also says its very difficult to make...takes a few days. The aloo apparently has to be sookhofied. You know, all this talk of an achaar reminds me of this positively killing achaar a distant aunt of my fathers makes for niaz (a sort of offering) when they have their majlis every moharram. i GO for the achaar and steal as much as i can the next afternoon when i just `drop in` to say salaam...then eat it rookha. Full ulcer scene. :0) Saeb ka achaar? if you can, do ask your bhabhi to give you the recipe and post it here or mail it to me..apple pickle! say, have u tasted carrot pickle by any chance? kachae gajar ka achaar...

haii, i see my chai-chillichips diet flying out the window :(