Borders are Made of These
Farzana Versey December 31, 2001
#20 Posted by nasah on January 1, 2001 3:46:30 pm
The incomparable Ayaz Amir with his new brutally frank, hard-hitting column.
One thing is sure -- The Freedom of Press is well and alive in Pakistan.
National honour is not on the line
By Ayaz Amir
(Excerpts)
AT times such as these cliches come in handy. Faced with threats from India we should sink our differences, close ranks and rally round the flag and the commander-in-chief. There will be time enough to indulge the luxury of scepticism when the crisis passes.
Precisely such an attitude took us into the folly of the 1965 war and the great tragedy of 1971 when half the country (or was it more than half?) just stood up and (and with no little Indian help) walked away. Patriotism is fine but any false notion of it should be no excuse for pulling down the shutters and refusing to think.
What is the nature of the present heightened state of tension with India?
We are faced with no Indian diktat regarding any aspect of national sovereignty. India, considering the circumstances propitious, is putting pressure on us to close down the `jihadi` outfits which have been waging war (or whatever) in occupied Kashmir.
For close on seven or eight years - that is, since 1994-95 when the Kashmir insurgency started being dominated by outside fighters - we could sustain this policy and get away with it.
After September 11, and after our turnaround on the Taliban, it was for us to realize that the era of outside `jihad` in Kashmir was over.
What we failed to do on our own, we are being forced to do by the pressure of circumstances.
National honour is not on the line.
Only an aspect of national adventurism is being called into question.
What sensible nations cannot sustain, they discard. When Britain could no longer afford to keep its empire it made a graceful exit from its colonies. France held on to its colonies long after it had the strength or ability to do so. The result was defeat in Vietnam (Dien Bien Phu) and rivers of blood in Algeria. The analogy does not quite fit but the conclusion is clear. Clinging to a prize that is slipping from one`s grasp is no sign of cleverness.
What does `Pakistan first` - the slogan raised by the Musharraf government in the first flush of its turnaround on Afghanistan - mean? If anything, it means that we should look to our own house and eschew foreign adventures.
If this piece of priceless wisdom was relevant to Afghanistan, why not to Kashmir?
We have been involved in occupied Kashmir for long. The world has come to know this in part because we blew our own disguise.
Organizations like the Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mushammad had a free run of the entire country, holding rallies and easily collecting funds and recruits.
India has not invented the substance of the charges against the Lashkar or Jaish. It has merely used and exploited the evidence we ourselves had accumulated.
After all, since when were covert wars allowed to have an overt face? But since the great policy-masters of Pakistan - stretching from GHQ to ISI -allowed this to happen, they are the authors of their own misfortune.
Nor was this simply a question of our cover being blown.
Our forward policy in Kashmir was already becoming unsustainable.
After September 11 we should have done some fast thinking and clamped down on the `jihadi` outfits ourselves without waiting for circumstances to catch up with us. But we let the moment pass and so, after Afghanistan, another turnaround is being forced on us.
Thank God for US help here too.
By outlawing the Lashkar and Jaish it has made it easier for us to take action against these two organisations.
From the US we can take anything. But from India nothing. And why should we?
The only problem is we keep putting ourselves in untenable positions - as in 1965, in 1971 and as indeed during the Kargil affair in 1999.
We say India is the great enemy. But if enmity be measured by injuries inflicted, we have harmed ourselves more than anything India could have done.
As for the present crisis, how strangely flat-footed in it we have been.
_________________________________________________
We failed to appreciate the gravity of the attack on the Lok Sabha and the outrage it triggered in India.
__________________________________________________
Some of the initial statements made by some of our officials could have been avoided. And what occasion for President Musharraf to say that India was being ``arrogant`` in recalling its high commissioner from Islamabad? Strong words ill-suited to the situation.
Now the pressure is all from the Indian side while we are at the receiving end.
Washington is trying to calm subcontinental nerves but it is being quite unambiguous in telling Pakistan to close down the machinery of Kashmiri `jihad`.
Once again it is we who are twisting in the wind.
But this is one twisting that should be seen as necessary penance for past folly.
The most difficult operation in war is a graceful retreat.
This in peacetime is what we are being called upon to execute: a graceful exit from our unsustainable posture in Kashmir.
First Afghanistan, now Kashmir. Such are the hard lessons we are having to learn.
The talons we had spread in all directions we are being called upon to draw in.
A good thing that this is taking place under the strategic umbrella of the US or else the pain would have been excruciating.
But if this physical withdrawal is to mean anything it has to be accompanied by an ideological retraction in the army command and the intelligence agencies operating under its wings.
The days of external adventurism are over. Time to look inwards at our domestic plate.
On top of any domestic agenda must come the re-education of the ISI. It must look to its essential task of gathering intelligence and countering foreign espionage and abandon politics and foreign policy, the two fields it has completely messed up. This is a tall order but one which must be fulfilled if the moves in Kashmir and Afghanistan are to make any sense.
Secondly, the army has to redefine its role in national life. Will it rule the roost and intervene at will in political matters or will it allow the political process to find its bearings over a period of time?
True, politicians have made their mistakes and paid dearly for them. But it is the overbearing presence of the military which has retarded and distorted the political process.
There is nothing wrong with the soil or air of Pakistan. Or indeed with its people, who, apart from a tendency to suffer fools in high places, have their eyes in the right direction. It is simply a problem of leadership which has cast shadows over a land that could easily be happy and prosperous.(DAWN)
Bless you Ayaz Amir!
There will be -- NO Terrorism - No War -- between India and Pakistan -- in 2002 -- Inshaallah.
One thing is sure -- The Freedom of Press is well and alive in Pakistan.
National honour is not on the line
By Ayaz Amir
(Excerpts)
AT times such as these cliches come in handy. Faced with threats from India we should sink our differences, close ranks and rally round the flag and the commander-in-chief. There will be time enough to indulge the luxury of scepticism when the crisis passes.
Precisely such an attitude took us into the folly of the 1965 war and the great tragedy of 1971 when half the country (or was it more than half?) just stood up and (and with no little Indian help) walked away. Patriotism is fine but any false notion of it should be no excuse for pulling down the shutters and refusing to think.
What is the nature of the present heightened state of tension with India?
We are faced with no Indian diktat regarding any aspect of national sovereignty. India, considering the circumstances propitious, is putting pressure on us to close down the `jihadi` outfits which have been waging war (or whatever) in occupied Kashmir.
For close on seven or eight years - that is, since 1994-95 when the Kashmir insurgency started being dominated by outside fighters - we could sustain this policy and get away with it.
After September 11, and after our turnaround on the Taliban, it was for us to realize that the era of outside `jihad` in Kashmir was over.
What we failed to do on our own, we are being forced to do by the pressure of circumstances.
National honour is not on the line.
Only an aspect of national adventurism is being called into question.
What sensible nations cannot sustain, they discard. When Britain could no longer afford to keep its empire it made a graceful exit from its colonies. France held on to its colonies long after it had the strength or ability to do so. The result was defeat in Vietnam (Dien Bien Phu) and rivers of blood in Algeria. The analogy does not quite fit but the conclusion is clear. Clinging to a prize that is slipping from one`s grasp is no sign of cleverness.
What does `Pakistan first` - the slogan raised by the Musharraf government in the first flush of its turnaround on Afghanistan - mean? If anything, it means that we should look to our own house and eschew foreign adventures.
If this piece of priceless wisdom was relevant to Afghanistan, why not to Kashmir?
We have been involved in occupied Kashmir for long. The world has come to know this in part because we blew our own disguise.
Organizations like the Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mushammad had a free run of the entire country, holding rallies and easily collecting funds and recruits.
India has not invented the substance of the charges against the Lashkar or Jaish. It has merely used and exploited the evidence we ourselves had accumulated.
After all, since when were covert wars allowed to have an overt face? But since the great policy-masters of Pakistan - stretching from GHQ to ISI -allowed this to happen, they are the authors of their own misfortune.
Nor was this simply a question of our cover being blown.
Our forward policy in Kashmir was already becoming unsustainable.
After September 11 we should have done some fast thinking and clamped down on the `jihadi` outfits ourselves without waiting for circumstances to catch up with us. But we let the moment pass and so, after Afghanistan, another turnaround is being forced on us.
Thank God for US help here too.
By outlawing the Lashkar and Jaish it has made it easier for us to take action against these two organisations.
From the US we can take anything. But from India nothing. And why should we?
The only problem is we keep putting ourselves in untenable positions - as in 1965, in 1971 and as indeed during the Kargil affair in 1999.
We say India is the great enemy. But if enmity be measured by injuries inflicted, we have harmed ourselves more than anything India could have done.
As for the present crisis, how strangely flat-footed in it we have been.
_________________________________________________
We failed to appreciate the gravity of the attack on the Lok Sabha and the outrage it triggered in India.
__________________________________________________
Some of the initial statements made by some of our officials could have been avoided. And what occasion for President Musharraf to say that India was being ``arrogant`` in recalling its high commissioner from Islamabad? Strong words ill-suited to the situation.
Now the pressure is all from the Indian side while we are at the receiving end.
Washington is trying to calm subcontinental nerves but it is being quite unambiguous in telling Pakistan to close down the machinery of Kashmiri `jihad`.
Once again it is we who are twisting in the wind.
But this is one twisting that should be seen as necessary penance for past folly.
The most difficult operation in war is a graceful retreat.
This in peacetime is what we are being called upon to execute: a graceful exit from our unsustainable posture in Kashmir.
First Afghanistan, now Kashmir. Such are the hard lessons we are having to learn.
The talons we had spread in all directions we are being called upon to draw in.
A good thing that this is taking place under the strategic umbrella of the US or else the pain would have been excruciating.
But if this physical withdrawal is to mean anything it has to be accompanied by an ideological retraction in the army command and the intelligence agencies operating under its wings.
The days of external adventurism are over. Time to look inwards at our domestic plate.
On top of any domestic agenda must come the re-education of the ISI. It must look to its essential task of gathering intelligence and countering foreign espionage and abandon politics and foreign policy, the two fields it has completely messed up. This is a tall order but one which must be fulfilled if the moves in Kashmir and Afghanistan are to make any sense.
Secondly, the army has to redefine its role in national life. Will it rule the roost and intervene at will in political matters or will it allow the political process to find its bearings over a period of time?
True, politicians have made their mistakes and paid dearly for them. But it is the overbearing presence of the military which has retarded and distorted the political process.
There is nothing wrong with the soil or air of Pakistan. Or indeed with its people, who, apart from a tendency to suffer fools in high places, have their eyes in the right direction. It is simply a problem of leadership which has cast shadows over a land that could easily be happy and prosperous.(DAWN)
Bless you Ayaz Amir!
There will be -- NO Terrorism - No War -- between India and Pakistan -- in 2002 -- Inshaallah.
reply to this interact
write a new interact
add to favorites
flag objectionable content
#21 Posted by ali1 on January 1, 2001 9:49:02 pm
India Cooling Pakistan War Rhetoric
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20020101/wl/india_pakistan_83.html
Seems like the dhoti-clad banyas are running from battle again.... much like what their ancestors have done for the past 5000 years.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20020101/wl/india_pakistan_83.html
Seems like the dhoti-clad banyas are running from battle again.... much like what their ancestors have done for the past 5000 years.
#22 Posted by ali1 on January 1, 2001 9:49:02 pm
Reply # 48 chandan
[``I attended the ``peace`` vigil held in San Jose. Following were the salient features:
1. I was the only Indian ``present`` there. Everyone else was from Pakistan.``]
I didn`t attend this rally, since I will only attend the one which will be held to celebrate India`s complete annhilation. However, from what I have heard about the vigil, this watery stool pigeon is lying. There were many more Indians than Pakistanis in this vigil.
Chandan, probably you were the only Indian in RSS shorts? Also, dou you think all Indians wear polyester dress pants with chappals?
[``But let me tell you if you expect India would behave cowardly just to give ``peace`` to terrorists, forget it.``]
Everyone expects India behave cowardly because thats your heritage and your history.
[``I dont care abt holocaust, even if all my near and dear ones might get affected``]
It seems like you are actually looking forward to the holocaust. So what was the point in going to the ``peace`` vigil, you samosabottom?
[``So yearn for the final war, so that your dear ones back in Desh have future in peace and prosperity.``]
Why haven`t your chicken hearted cowardly leaders started the ``final`` war yet? Don`t they care for their people`s prosperity? Or are you guys stockpiling on cowdung for the famine ahead?
[``I attended the ``peace`` vigil held in San Jose. Following were the salient features:
1. I was the only Indian ``present`` there. Everyone else was from Pakistan.``]
I didn`t attend this rally, since I will only attend the one which will be held to celebrate India`s complete annhilation. However, from what I have heard about the vigil, this watery stool pigeon is lying. There were many more Indians than Pakistanis in this vigil.
Chandan, probably you were the only Indian in RSS shorts? Also, dou you think all Indians wear polyester dress pants with chappals?
[``But let me tell you if you expect India would behave cowardly just to give ``peace`` to terrorists, forget it.``]
Everyone expects India behave cowardly because thats your heritage and your history.
[``I dont care abt holocaust, even if all my near and dear ones might get affected``]
It seems like you are actually looking forward to the holocaust. So what was the point in going to the ``peace`` vigil, you samosabottom?
[``So yearn for the final war, so that your dear ones back in Desh have future in peace and prosperity.``]
Why haven`t your chicken hearted cowardly leaders started the ``final`` war yet? Don`t they care for their people`s prosperity? Or are you guys stockpiling on cowdung for the famine ahead?
#23 Posted by Banjaara on January 1, 2001 9:49:02 pm
A very happy New Year with four specimens of love and hate,class and crass all from our own Chowk.
dost-mittar
Kitnay shirin hain teray lab kay aei raqeeb
Gaaliyan kha kay bemazaa naa hua...
Navaan saal mubaarak. Dhuaada tay dhuaaday ghar waaliyann da rab raakha
Urstruly
“…So Hindus! Let me tell you this new years day that I hate you. I wish you death. I wish you eternal misery. I wish you everlasting hate. I wish you bubonic plagues…”
Shammi
``Urstruly, thanks. I wish nothing but the best for a happy and prosperous new year! Kind regard``
audio-video-radio
`` It is time to put dundaa in Pakistan`s G-nd and push it hard. This is the only language these guys will understand. Gaanduu.``
With best regards.
dost-mittar
Kitnay shirin hain teray lab kay aei raqeeb
Gaaliyan kha kay bemazaa naa hua...
Navaan saal mubaarak. Dhuaada tay dhuaaday ghar waaliyann da rab raakha
Urstruly
“…So Hindus! Let me tell you this new years day that I hate you. I wish you death. I wish you eternal misery. I wish you everlasting hate. I wish you bubonic plagues…”
Shammi
``Urstruly, thanks. I wish nothing but the best for a happy and prosperous new year! Kind regard``
audio-video-radio
`` It is time to put dundaa in Pakistan`s G-nd and push it hard. This is the only language these guys will understand. Gaanduu.``
With best regards.
#24 Posted by sigalph235 on January 1, 2001 9:49:02 pm
re urstruly # 43
Keep up that language and liturgy and soon Kashmiris will have the same regard for Pakistani `help` as the Afghans do.
Indian Occupied Kashmir has an assembly which elects its chief minister; a Kashmiri is India`s state minister for Foreign Affairs; India generally does not allow non-Kashmiris to move into its J&K. Every draconian law imposed by India is thoroughly vetted by her parliament and her Army`s actions (as brutal as they are) called into question in public forums.
By comparison, the Pakistani Occupied Kashmir has assembly which follows military orders as to who to elect or depose as `prime minister`; Kashmiris are rarely found in Punjabi dominated upper echelons (even the so-called Azad KAshmir regiment is made up of non-Kashmiris just like the Sind regiment is full of Baluchis and Punjabis). THe laws applying to Pakistani Occupied Kashmir are often legal siblings and offspring of the Frontier Crimes Regulations or the attached schedules to the Indian Independence Act of 1947. THere is no restriction of Pakistanis moving into and living in Muzaffarabad and no parliament to scritinize the activity of any Pakistani agency, army, or official.
No wonder that the shrillest shrieks of Pakistan`s establishment have little, if any effect, on the world`s general indifference to the plight of Kashmiris.
Keep up that language and liturgy and soon Kashmiris will have the same regard for Pakistani `help` as the Afghans do.
Indian Occupied Kashmir has an assembly which elects its chief minister; a Kashmiri is India`s state minister for Foreign Affairs; India generally does not allow non-Kashmiris to move into its J&K. Every draconian law imposed by India is thoroughly vetted by her parliament and her Army`s actions (as brutal as they are) called into question in public forums.
By comparison, the Pakistani Occupied Kashmir has assembly which follows military orders as to who to elect or depose as `prime minister`; Kashmiris are rarely found in Punjabi dominated upper echelons (even the so-called Azad KAshmir regiment is made up of non-Kashmiris just like the Sind regiment is full of Baluchis and Punjabis). THe laws applying to Pakistani Occupied Kashmir are often legal siblings and offspring of the Frontier Crimes Regulations or the attached schedules to the Indian Independence Act of 1947. THere is no restriction of Pakistanis moving into and living in Muzaffarabad and no parliament to scritinize the activity of any Pakistani agency, army, or official.
No wonder that the shrillest shrieks of Pakistan`s establishment have little, if any effect, on the world`s general indifference to the plight of Kashmiris.
#25 Posted by chandan on January 1, 2001 9:49:02 pm
There will be -- NO Terrorism - No War -- between India and Pakistan -- in 2002 -- Inshaallah.
JAMMU: An infant and an eight-year-old boy were among the six persons of a Hindu family killed in a gruesome massacre by Lashkar-e-Taiba militants in a village in the border district of Poonch, official sources said on Tuesday
Great start for 2002. Isnt it. No one shedding tears for these people. Impotent Indian leaders thinking about ``talks``. Terrorist back to their business of killing innocents in order to maintain their fear and credibility. I know some of you might jump, hey this must be work of Indian agencies otherwise why would any ``freedom-fighting`` jehadi do this, this will hurt the movement itself. Utter BS, terrorist`s main job is to terrorize, thats what they do. I think they must have been thinking, heck too much blemish on reputation of Lashkar and Jaish. Why not reinforce their reputation and let people know that all Paki military is doing is sham and drama for rest of the world and their business will continue unhindered.
JAMMU: An infant and an eight-year-old boy were among the six persons of a Hindu family killed in a gruesome massacre by Lashkar-e-Taiba militants in a village in the border district of Poonch, official sources said on Tuesday
Great start for 2002. Isnt it. No one shedding tears for these people. Impotent Indian leaders thinking about ``talks``. Terrorist back to their business of killing innocents in order to maintain their fear and credibility. I know some of you might jump, hey this must be work of Indian agencies otherwise why would any ``freedom-fighting`` jehadi do this, this will hurt the movement itself. Utter BS, terrorist`s main job is to terrorize, thats what they do. I think they must have been thinking, heck too much blemish on reputation of Lashkar and Jaish. Why not reinforce their reputation and let people know that all Paki military is doing is sham and drama for rest of the world and their business will continue unhindered.
#26 Posted by shammi on January 1, 2001 9:49:02 pm
Re: Nasah
``...Shammi mian we have to get together one day ...``
We must, one day. I would love to exchange stories. BTW, I checked my diary -- the name of the lady was Sultana Begum (not Fatimah, as I had mentioned earlier). She used to live off Gurudwara Road. Apparently the area used to have a significant muslim population before Partition. Today, that area still has one mosque (near Chhapparwallah Kuan -- if that name means anything to you).
``...Shammi mian we have to get together one day ...``
We must, one day. I would love to exchange stories. BTW, I checked my diary -- the name of the lady was Sultana Begum (not Fatimah, as I had mentioned earlier). She used to live off Gurudwara Road. Apparently the area used to have a significant muslim population before Partition. Today, that area still has one mosque (near Chhapparwallah Kuan -- if that name means anything to you).
#27 Posted by shammi on January 1, 2001 9:49:02 pm
Re: Nasah
``.... We used to live by the side of the Musjid...``
I bet that this masjid is the one near Chapparwallah Kuan. It is still a functioning masjid. Zakir Hussain Sahib used to live off of Abdul Aziz Road in Naiwallah Galli area. (I hope that these names rekindle your memories). I was born in `64, so I know very little about the pre-partition communities. My family elders told me that there were riots there in `47, and that Pandit Nehru came there himself to quell them. BTW, Tibbia College is still going strong!
``.... We used to live by the side of the Musjid...``
I bet that this masjid is the one near Chapparwallah Kuan. It is still a functioning masjid. Zakir Hussain Sahib used to live off of Abdul Aziz Road in Naiwallah Galli area. (I hope that these names rekindle your memories). I was born in `64, so I know very little about the pre-partition communities. My family elders told me that there were riots there in `47, and that Pandit Nehru came there himself to quell them. BTW, Tibbia College is still going strong!
#28 Posted by tvarad on January 1, 2001 9:49:02 pm
``Urstruly
I would request all peace loving human beings including those Hindus who know in their heart that what they are doing is not worthy of a decent human being but do not find enough courage to call a spade a spade, to dedicate this year to the plight of helpless Kashmiris.``
Keep shedding those crocodile tears. Just like the ``helpless Afghans``, for whose freedom you guys fought so valiantly, eventually ended up using Pakistanis for target practice, it is only a matter of time that the same is going to happen in Kashmir.
I would request all peace loving human beings including those Hindus who know in their heart that what they are doing is not worthy of a decent human being but do not find enough courage to call a spade a spade, to dedicate this year to the plight of helpless Kashmiris.``
Keep shedding those crocodile tears. Just like the ``helpless Afghans``, for whose freedom you guys fought so valiantly, eventually ended up using Pakistanis for target practice, it is only a matter of time that the same is going to happen in Kashmir.
#29 Posted by tahmed321 on January 1, 2001 9:49:02 pm
audio-video- #59 It is too early in the year to waste time with you. Buzz off.
#30 Posted by tahmed321 on January 1, 2001 9:49:02 pm
dost-mittar #51 happy new year to you too. Glad you appreciated the Auld Lang Syne. You asked about recorded versions: I can send you one very nice rendition that I received via email - I dont know of any way to put it up on chowk, but if you are interested let me know your email and I will send it to you.
#31 Posted by tahmed321 on January 1, 2001 9:49:02 pm
soysauce #62 I assume that was a New Year`s Greetings. Best wishes for the New Year to you too.
#32 Posted by tahmed321 on January 1, 2001 9:49:02 pm
anNy #39 Thanks, and Best Wishes for 2002 to you too.
#33 Posted by Urstruly on January 1, 2001 10:41:38 pm
Bengali # 67
I thought twice before writing this post because you usually run away without answering any questions that I ask-like for example you didnt answer my ape and peacock post. Then I thought, since you speak your master Hindus tongue so fluently and still kiss their butts so fervently so why not ask another question from you.
You wrote in your post about elections in Indian Oppressed Kashmir, their so-called elected CM, and so-called draconian laws such as Disturbed Area Act due to which 80,000 Kashmiris have lost their lives and countless women raped and children butchered, and how such laws are valid because they are passed by Indian parliament etc. etc. Please explain why the Kashmiri predicament is any different from Bengalis when you say 100s of millions of Bengalis when bengalis had won the elections with majority and still they commited an act of treason; why didnt they kept quiet and waited for their CM; why Kashmiris are supposed to take the dracoinian laws lying down while Bengalis found themselves conveniently commit an act of treason in the face of Martial Law. Why Bengali freedom fight is any differnt from kashmiri-was Bengali struggle really a struggle for freedom in which 100s of millions died according to you or was it the treacorous blood of Mir Jafar and Mir Qasim that made Bengalis act the way they did? Oh I get it, you would say that since India has a democracy and Paksitan had Martial law therfore Bengali struggle was valid but Kashmiri is not. Please then explain to me how Kashmir is not under defacto Martial Law for the past 12 years with the laws such as Disturbed Area Act of 1990? Ok just answer a simple question why Bengalis are not traitors whereas Kashmiris are.
I demand an answer this time and as an avid hindu butt kisser you are the most qualified to do so.
I thought twice before writing this post because you usually run away without answering any questions that I ask-like for example you didnt answer my ape and peacock post. Then I thought, since you speak your master Hindus tongue so fluently and still kiss their butts so fervently so why not ask another question from you.
You wrote in your post about elections in Indian Oppressed Kashmir, their so-called elected CM, and so-called draconian laws such as Disturbed Area Act due to which 80,000 Kashmiris have lost their lives and countless women raped and children butchered, and how such laws are valid because they are passed by Indian parliament etc. etc. Please explain why the Kashmiri predicament is any different from Bengalis when you say 100s of millions of Bengalis when bengalis had won the elections with majority and still they commited an act of treason; why didnt they kept quiet and waited for their CM; why Kashmiris are supposed to take the dracoinian laws lying down while Bengalis found themselves conveniently commit an act of treason in the face of Martial Law. Why Bengali freedom fight is any differnt from kashmiri-was Bengali struggle really a struggle for freedom in which 100s of millions died according to you or was it the treacorous blood of Mir Jafar and Mir Qasim that made Bengalis act the way they did? Oh I get it, you would say that since India has a democracy and Paksitan had Martial law therfore Bengali struggle was valid but Kashmiri is not. Please then explain to me how Kashmir is not under defacto Martial Law for the past 12 years with the laws such as Disturbed Area Act of 1990? Ok just answer a simple question why Bengalis are not traitors whereas Kashmiris are.
I demand an answer this time and as an avid hindu butt kisser you are the most qualified to do so.
#34 Posted by SameerJB on January 2, 2001 2:53:16 am
nasah, Shammi, dost-mittar: Here is another article you might enjoy reading.
http://www.sulekha.com/articledesc.asp?cid=160890
http://www.sulekha.com/articledesc.asp?cid=160890
#36 Posted by username on January 2, 2001 2:53:16 am
WOW!!! WHAT IN THE WORLD HAPPENED TO CNN. CAN`T BELIEVE THIS!
http://asia.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/01/01/tully.column/index.html
The wounds of South Asia`s partition
By Mark Tully
After last month`s attack on the Indian Parliament the government declared a war on terrorism and demanded that Pakistan end all support for Kashmiri separatists operating from any territory it controls.
Pakistan has taken some action to curb the separatist groups but India continues to demand more and makes preparations for military action.
Although the Indian government insists that it does not want an armed conflict its aggressive diplomacy and deployment of troops could just provoke that.
Indian television is showing crowds cheering soldiers as they leave their barracks for the front-line.
The newspapers have pictures of tanks and artillery loaded on trains making their way to the border with Pakistan.
Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee speaks of a war against terrorism and refuses to rule out armed combat as a means of waging that war.
But there are voices protesting against the dangers and the futility of war.
At a meeting of leaders of all the parties, which gave broad support to the prime minister, a veteran communist objected to ``ministers talking uninhibitedly about war.``
Dangers of ``saber rattling``
In the Indian Express, Kanti Bajpai, one of India`s most respected scholars of international affairs, has warned those`` infected by war fever`` that they are in danger of ``shaming their government into action which can only lead to disaster.``
Gautam Sen, an academic from the London School of Economics, has written in the daily Hindu of the danger of ``saber-rattling taking over and leading to war.``
The government has upped the anti so far that it is in danger of being bounced into a war, and will find it difficult to pull back unless all its demands are met by Pakistan.
India`s bellicose voice is making it more difficult for President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan to take the measures it is demanding.
He can`t afford to be seen to be acting because of India`s threats.
The risk of warlike noises
All the warlike noises and the risks they carry could lead to military action that would cost India dearly and achieve nothing.
It is not at all clear what military action India could take with any guarantee of success.
The risks are all too clear especially now that both India and Pakistan have nuclear weapons.
A limited objective would be to change the Indian army`s rules of engagement and allow soldiers to cross the line of control in Kashmir to pursue militants who have infiltrated from the Pakistan controlled side.
The snows and winter weather don`t make that an easy option.
Any success would be so limited that it would not satisfy the political aim of the government, which has to show some decisive outcome of the ``war against terrorism,`` it has declared.
Talk of bombing
There is much talk in India of bombing what the Indian government describes as terrorist camps in Pakistan or Pakistan administered Kashmir.
But Pakistan is not Afghanistan, India is not America, and who is to say that the militant Kashmiri separatists are sitting in their camps waiting to be bombed.
This would not be the time of year for India to advance across the line of control in Kashmir to try to expand the territory under its control, and the terrain is in Pakistan`s favor.
An attempt to move across the western border, where India advanced successfully in the 1971 war, could possibly mean capturing territory, which would serve as a bargaining counter in subsequent peace negotiations.
But this would almost certainly lead to all-out war and the danger of nuclear retaliation.
Any of these options, even the most limited, runs the risk of escalation.
As it is no one can rule out the possibility of an accident sparking off a conflagration with the two armies standing eye ball to eye ball along the international border and the line of control in Kashmir.
They exchange fire almost daily across that line. A hot-headed officer leading troops in pursuit of militants over the line of control, an aggressive deployment of armor could cause a panic reaction on the other side.
Wounds of partition
India`s belligerency is not only dangerous if it spills over into military action.
It will prove futile to whoever emerges victorious.
Three wars, and Pakistan`s occupation of terrain on the India side of the line of control in Kashmir in 1999 have shown that there can be no military solution to the Kashmir problem, and war only deepens the other wounds which still fester from partition.
The collapse of Pakistan`s policy in Afghanistan has given Musharraf an opportunity to revise the policy of supporting those he calls freedom fighters in Kashmir.
He has shown signs of willingness to do that. What is needed now is for India to give him space, and to acknowledge that it too needs to do a lot of rethinking about Kashmir.
The problems there can`t all be blamed on Pakistan.
http://asia.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/01/01/tully.column/index.html
The wounds of South Asia`s partition
By Mark Tully
After last month`s attack on the Indian Parliament the government declared a war on terrorism and demanded that Pakistan end all support for Kashmiri separatists operating from any territory it controls.
Pakistan has taken some action to curb the separatist groups but India continues to demand more and makes preparations for military action.
Although the Indian government insists that it does not want an armed conflict its aggressive diplomacy and deployment of troops could just provoke that.
Indian television is showing crowds cheering soldiers as they leave their barracks for the front-line.
The newspapers have pictures of tanks and artillery loaded on trains making their way to the border with Pakistan.
Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee speaks of a war against terrorism and refuses to rule out armed combat as a means of waging that war.
But there are voices protesting against the dangers and the futility of war.
At a meeting of leaders of all the parties, which gave broad support to the prime minister, a veteran communist objected to ``ministers talking uninhibitedly about war.``
Dangers of ``saber rattling``
In the Indian Express, Kanti Bajpai, one of India`s most respected scholars of international affairs, has warned those`` infected by war fever`` that they are in danger of ``shaming their government into action which can only lead to disaster.``
Gautam Sen, an academic from the London School of Economics, has written in the daily Hindu of the danger of ``saber-rattling taking over and leading to war.``
The government has upped the anti so far that it is in danger of being bounced into a war, and will find it difficult to pull back unless all its demands are met by Pakistan.
India`s bellicose voice is making it more difficult for President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan to take the measures it is demanding.
He can`t afford to be seen to be acting because of India`s threats.
The risk of warlike noises
All the warlike noises and the risks they carry could lead to military action that would cost India dearly and achieve nothing.
It is not at all clear what military action India could take with any guarantee of success.
The risks are all too clear especially now that both India and Pakistan have nuclear weapons.
A limited objective would be to change the Indian army`s rules of engagement and allow soldiers to cross the line of control in Kashmir to pursue militants who have infiltrated from the Pakistan controlled side.
The snows and winter weather don`t make that an easy option.
Any success would be so limited that it would not satisfy the political aim of the government, which has to show some decisive outcome of the ``war against terrorism,`` it has declared.
Talk of bombing
There is much talk in India of bombing what the Indian government describes as terrorist camps in Pakistan or Pakistan administered Kashmir.
But Pakistan is not Afghanistan, India is not America, and who is to say that the militant Kashmiri separatists are sitting in their camps waiting to be bombed.
This would not be the time of year for India to advance across the line of control in Kashmir to try to expand the territory under its control, and the terrain is in Pakistan`s favor.
An attempt to move across the western border, where India advanced successfully in the 1971 war, could possibly mean capturing territory, which would serve as a bargaining counter in subsequent peace negotiations.
But this would almost certainly lead to all-out war and the danger of nuclear retaliation.
Any of these options, even the most limited, runs the risk of escalation.
As it is no one can rule out the possibility of an accident sparking off a conflagration with the two armies standing eye ball to eye ball along the international border and the line of control in Kashmir.
They exchange fire almost daily across that line. A hot-headed officer leading troops in pursuit of militants over the line of control, an aggressive deployment of armor could cause a panic reaction on the other side.
Wounds of partition
India`s belligerency is not only dangerous if it spills over into military action.
It will prove futile to whoever emerges victorious.
Three wars, and Pakistan`s occupation of terrain on the India side of the line of control in Kashmir in 1999 have shown that there can be no military solution to the Kashmir problem, and war only deepens the other wounds which still fester from partition.
The collapse of Pakistan`s policy in Afghanistan has given Musharraf an opportunity to revise the policy of supporting those he calls freedom fighters in Kashmir.
He has shown signs of willingness to do that. What is needed now is for India to give him space, and to acknowledge that it too needs to do a lot of rethinking about Kashmir.
The problems there can`t all be blamed on Pakistan.
Interact Index
Latest Interacts
- banneditem: While I aplaud FQ's... Hop Aboard the Interfaith
- Cobra: stupid article.... The Indian Obama!
- Shah2: How ironic people WITHOUT... Hop Aboard the Interfaith
- tahmed32: #220 that is exactly... The Correct Turn
- laddu: Re: # 218 Mian, Aap hi... The Correct Turn
- tahmed32: kaalchakra #210 tradition, old... The Correct Turn
- tahmed32: laddu mian: your understanding... The Correct Turn
- chaltahai: What good is giving... The Correct Turn
