Taliban : An Analysis

re hamzad afaqui

``...vicariously enjoy their wives,mothers & daughters` doubling as no-fee hookers & themselves acting as no-load pimps.``

Talking about yourself again, eh? If anything that line reflects what you think of YOUR female relatives.

Reading exchange of views between Syed Ahmed and sac and also hobbyty’s response, it appears that terms Islamists, Islamic fundamentalists and fanatics have been used interchangeably. To me, Islamists are different than Islamic fundamentalist fanatic – nutcases. In my article, I am very critical of nutcases and in disagreement with Islamists. Both Taliban and Khmer Rouge represented nutcases and ended up causing damage to their own mother ideologies of Islam and Communism, respectively.

Islamic fundamentalist fanatics usually have much less education in liberal and secular fields, more often exclusively trained at madrassahs, unable to adjust to any society that does not fit their narrowly defined ideology, adamant in literal interpretation of religious literature as opposed to “reflection of a particular time period and culture”. They are misfits in modern dynamic society due to their principles fixated at revelation-based society and culture. The choicest method to achieving their ends is armed struggle –jihad, because it does not require consensus from the enemy in addition to providing a much desired path for death. Funny looking headgear, baggy garments and beards are preferred by this group even in cultures that is not overly bearded.

Islamists are a very broad group that includes people from fundamentalists-Islamists to liberal-Islamists 9 I know people who are very modern in outlook and do not mind discussing virtues of Islamic model while imbibing scotch whisky. To them dietary laws and many social and moral Islamic codes are minor issues. They believe in identifying with only the larger issues). The common feature of Islamists is a preference of Islamic over secular, a disagreement with the principle of separation of religion and state and in the case of Pakistan, they believe in the superiority of the hypothesis of Islamic welfare republic over any other theory and fortify their belief as well as public support by taking a free ride on the bandwagon of Two Nation Theory of pre-independence history. Iqbal, Ali Shariati, Jalal Uddin Afghani were Islamists and I believe that Maudoodi and Hasan Al- Banna were also more of Islamists than fundamentalists.

I totally disagree with hobbyty reference to Sahriati and other Islamist scholars as a rebuttal to me stating that Islamic model adopted ny Taliban lacked intellectual backing. The philosophies of Gramsci, fabian sicialists or Jean Paul Sarte ought not to be used to justify Stalinist Enver Hoxha in Albania or Maoist Pol Pot is Khmer Rouge. Similarly Islamic nutcases should not be defended by the writings of just any Islamists.

The secular and liberal left in Pakistan did not have honest and intellectual leadership. Most of them were hypocrites. The lack of regular elections in Pakistan exacerbated this trend. The second level leadership and supporters were mostly those who wanted to oppose religious right more than anything else. They also included pot-smokers etc. Left in Pakistan has to make the case for secularism against much publicized and popularized TNT – not an easy task. The people who actually helped Pakistan most were bureaucrats of Indian Civil Service of Raj era. They were talented, honest and helped Pakistan survive – much more than religion, TNT, politicians, military or current corrupt and inept bureaucracy.

The absence of checks and balances is hallmark of Islamists as well as fanatics. If proper checks and balances have existed in Pakistan, the Islamists and fanatics would have reduced to more of a nuisance just like communists still win somewhere around 10 percent of popular votes in France, Italy and Spain but have learned to respect checks and balances by enacting laws through democratic process.

I believe that regular elections in Pakistan would help move many of the Islamists away from fanatical fundamentalists. The Islamists would do what Syed Ahmed would like them to do - to win popular support. Above all, good relations with India and allowing native cultures to grow will go a much longer way in this regard.

Pardon me now because I have to go to the bathroom after going through Sahih Bukhari to find out the Islamic way of you-know-what (number 1 only or number 1 and 2 or number 2 only? Number 3 not allowed – it weakens eyesight?)

Reply #: 96

sigalph235re fatimah #88

``YLH has asid it well. Bernard Lewis is one of the most Arabophile experts of the Middle East. ``

.....................

YOU SILLY SGLPH,& HYPOCRITE YLH

WHY SHOULD I CARE IF BERNARD IS ARABO PHILE?

Are you an ARAB ?

Fools still slave of Arab culture rather than being muslim & not confusing Islam as ARABISM.

CANT YOU HEAR ARABISM IS NOT ISLAM.!You educated fools falling for the wrong symbols.

I know bengali & Arabic but i am neither AND PROUD OF IT.

re: dost-mittar

``...Sometimes, it takes an outsider to notice something that we take for granted (for example people in India squatting in the fields to relieve themselves!)...``

I felt the same way when I first encountered English-medium Pakistani dailies on the Web. My first `cultural shock` occurred when I came across Op/Ed articles on topics such as Eid, Ramzan, and parallels between what happened in the Prophet`s life and modern day events, in the editorial pages of respected Pakistani dailies. If memory serves me right (and sometimes it doesn`t), I don`t think that one would find similar Op/Ed pieces in Indian newspapers (e.g. invoking the righteousness of Krishna`s message to Arjun, etc.) like the Times of India, The Hindu, etc.

I find it dfficult to discard the notion that this not-so-subtle invocation of faith in the media does have the effect of reinforcing scripture as the fountain of law, and makes it that much harder to counter it in political matters. To be fair, many secular institutions in India, too, have their mottos (vision statements, if you will) couched in religious terms. Thus, for example, many Indian Army units have their battle cries that have religious undertones (e.g. Maratha Light Infantry`s `Bol Shri Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj Ki Jai` or Garwhal Rifles` `Badri Vishal Lal Ki Jai` [Victory to the Great Lord Badri Nath], J&K Rifles` `Durga Mata Ki Jai`, etc.)

A COMPENDIUM of American THUGGERY & TERRORISM THE WORLD OVER.The only comprehensive resource you will ever need.

If this is not being taught as a compulsory subject in the schools of Grand Civilisations one risks becoming like the western baboons himself/herself.

Are you getting yourself innoculated from the disease called Westernitis?(aka SECULARISM)?

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http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/chronologyofterror.html

Chronology of AMERICAN STATE TERRORISM

``Few of us can easily surrender our belief that society must somehow make sense. The thought that The State has lost its mind and is punishing so many innocent people is intolerable. And so the evidence has to be internally denied.``

— Arthur Miller

playwright

Chronology of

American State Terrorism

U.S. State Department Policy Planning Study #23, 1948:

``Our real task in the coming period is to devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity [U.S. military-economic supremacy].... To do so, we will have to dispense with all sentimentality and day-dreaming.... We should cease to talk about vague and...unreal objectives such as human rights, the raising of the living standards, and democratization. The day is not far off when we are going to have to deal in straight power concepts. The less we are then hampered by idealistic slogans, the better.``

— George Kennan

Director of Policy Planning

U.S. State Department

1948

The following collection of relatively brief entries is divided into three pages. Each page has the full list near the top so you can jump around from entry to entry between pages.

This list of nations represents literally millions of human beings all over the world who have been brutally murdered — directly by the United States military/government or by its obedient proxies. Huge though the list is, there is yet more to add. It does, however, contain the most well-known campaigns of American state terrorism, genocide and subversion — all of which are in the historical record for the whole world to see. God only knows what evil the U.S. government and military have committed that remains hidden.

And as long as the United States remains a military power the list of state terror victims will keep growing.

Page One:

Palestine

1948-Present

Colombia

1960s-Present

Iraq

1991-Present

Yugoslavia

1992-2000

Congo/Zaire

1961-Present

Cuba

1959-Present

Guatemala

1953-Present

El Salvador

1980-Present

East Timor

1975-1999

Haiti

1987-1994

Somalia

1993

Afghanistan

1979-1992

Nicaragua

1981-1990

Panama

1989 Page Two:

Libya

1981-1989

Iran

1988

Grenada

1979-1984

Greece

1964-1974

Chile

1964-1973

Costa Rica

Mid-1950s, 1970-71

Dominican Republic

1963-1966

Vietnam

1945-1974

Cambodia

1955-1973

Laos

1957-1973

Thailand

1965-1973

Italy

1947-1970s

Indonesia

1965

Brazil

1961-1964

British Guiana/Guyana

1953-1964

Iraq

1963 Page Three:

Soviet Union

1940s-1960s

Western Europe

1950s-1960s

Haiti

1959

Indonesia

1957-1958

Middle East

1956-1958

Iran

1953

Germany, Italy, Europe

1950s

Eastern Europe

1948-1956

Albania

1949-1953

Korea

1945-1953

Philippines

1945-1953

Greece

1947-1949

Marshall Islands

1946-1958

Italy

1947-1948

France

1947

China

1945-1951

Hiroshima & Nagasaki

August 1945

Japan, Germany, France

1942-1945

Around the world

1900-1930s

Philippines

1899-1902

America and Africa

1607-1890

1948 — Present

American/Israeli State Terrorism of the Palestinian People

Estimated civilian deaths: 100,000 Palestinian people

From the very beginning of the Zionist State of Israel in 1948, the racist Israelis have mass-murdered and terrorized the Palestinian people.

One of the earliest and most notorious incidents of Israeli terrorism was the Deir Yassin massacre in April, 1948. 250 Palestinian men, women and children were murdered in cold blood by Menachem Begin`s Zionist ``Irgun`` group as it went from house to house seeking to drive all Palestinians out of their ancient homeland. It hasn`t gotten any better since then.

Besides murdering women and children, Israelis routinely torture Palestinian prisoners in jail. And almost all of it has been kept hidden by the mainstream American mass-media for 53 years.

Just to give you another example of who the Israelis really are: in 1946, Menachem Begin`s terrorist organization blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, murdering British nurses, in order to drive the British out of Palestine. Israeli society later rewarded Menachem Begin by electing him Prime Minister.

And another example: on June 8, 1967 the armed forces of Israel killed 34 U.S. Navy sailors during a sustained air and sea attack on the USS Liberty.

In 1982 the Israelis invaded Lebanon and murdered 17,500 people. During the Israeli occupation, Ariel Sharon was the primary authority behind the massacres at the Shatilla and Sabra refugee camps in which over 1000 helpless Palestinian children, women and civilian men were murdered in cold blood by Lebanese Christians. And of course Ariel Sharon is now the Israeli Prime Minister. Israelis like having bloodthirsty war criminals as Prime Ministers.

The United States government gives billions of your tax dollars to the Israelis every year. And the U.S. government never pays people to do things it doesn`t want done. Israeli state terrorism is essentially American state terrorism.



For MORE FASCINATING STUFF:Please access,

http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/ChronologyofTerror.html

Hamid 119,

A HONEST NON-MOHAJIR

That is the first ever post on chowk where some has owned up, rather portrayed the mechanisnm that creates a jihadist, with out mentioning US, saudi or poverty. It is the mind set, the TMNT mind set of the parents that creates the jihadist. It is the subtle messages that hamidm portrays, the little, k for kafir anologies, The stories of Ishfaq Ahmed that portrays a hindu prayer as setting fire to ones ar//se, that creates the TNT mind of hating people with other beliefs. It is this homegrown, prescholl conditioning that can explain the views of YLH, sarwari, anNy etc.

Saminashah 122

Hello Samina

Thanks for the invite to comment - give me some time and I`ll come back to it - is there a particular theme or item you want me to be aware of as i read the interview? Are you familiar with this author`s work? I`m unfortunately not.

hamzad #123 ``Some more ``good`` news for those who gloat about their adultery,fornication,drinking,and vicariously enjoy their wives,mothers & daughters` doubling as no-fee hookers & themselves acting as no-load pimps.``

Are there any people on chowk whom have been gloating about their adultery? Or is it just your own sick mind that thinks of sex when thinking of mothers and daughters? How dare you post such rubbish!! And dont drag religion into the sewer your mind resides in. ``Muslims`` like you we dont need.

As for the article you quote, that is a western magazine, and their appreciation of Islamic culture is as much a reflection of the level of civilization of the west as the constant abuse of western civilization by people like you is a reflection of your jehalat.

I dont understand.

If Taliban kill, they are called Khemar rooge or other bad names; lengthy analyses are done to prove that etc. etc.

But

And may i ask why Indians (read Hindus) are not called murderers, rapists, and baby killers when they have killed 80,000 kashmiris and counting.

Saimashah,tahmad,sigalpha235.

So it really hits where it hurts.Does it?

If you do not see yourself in this mirror,ignore it!

It is meant for those who DO---and they KNOW it.Just enjoy the barbecue.

Muslim countries must be ETHICALLY(sic) cleansed of the kanjars & kanjarees.The idea is to hurt & offend those who ridicule Islam,muslims,& islamic values....you guys are at least neutrals.

But if you guys want to be some do gooders--learn to be equal opportunity offenders.

_________________________________________________

REPRODUCED for the benefit of others---& will be repeated once every so often.

[Some more ``good`` news for those who gloat about their adultery,fornication,drinking,and vicariously enjoy their wives,mothers & daughters` doubling as no-fee hookers & themselves acting as no-load pimps.

``The aroma of kabaab is no afar

Oh where is the sizzle,burn,& char``]

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re fatimah

``WHY SHOULD I CARE IF BERNARD IS ARABO PHILE?

Because in your earlier post you implied that Bernard Lewis was a rabid pro-Israeli kind of a fellow whose writings were thus tainted. You look like a childish fool back-pedaling on that!

``Are you an ARAB ?``

Heavens, no! I am a decent fellow.

Saminashah

I read the interview - I thought two items pertinent to us: one is the explanation the author offers of why religions grow and of course the chialistic zeal of communism has not been lost to the author - he sees it as his duty to form opinions amongst his readers.

No suprise here, I disagree with his explanation of why traditional religions grow. Communism was also a religion, as is secular humanism. traditional religions continue to earn adherents because they provide a context of meaning and of linking the adherent with humanity and the super natural. You will note that ``meaning`` of such little importance to the author, he does not even mention it - traditional religion, to him, is but a source of fanaticism - just tripe, the kind of nonsense that only ideologues subscribe to.

Practically no discussion of the trends that have and will continue to cause upheal in the third world - economic failure, nationalism, increasing self-awareness and class awareness, significant portion of populations under age twenty, increasing expectations (given mass communication and awareness of lives in richer countries) and the inablity to fulfull those expectations, the inevitable rise of authoritarianism, the effect of secularization and rationalization on stability within traditional and failing societies, geographic and functional ragmentation (what`s devolution about?) - the author does not come across as a serious person - no one would, unless one is conscious and willing to acknowledge that the subject is increasingly complex and simple answers will infuriate rather than satisfy.

Seems to me the question that is central here is one of meaning, how is one to live one`s life. In the mess and the coming mess, we are all trying to find some meaning for our lives, for connectedness to all life - what are your thoughts? Do you not think so? It seems to me that for a majority of persons, we know that there is much (the peripheral) in tradition that needs to be jettisoned, yet the rejection of the past and in many instances of reason itself seems to be more dangerous (meaninglessness)

As far as his duty to inform and shape the opinions of others - again no suprise, strictly inline with aestheticism - and another feature of the ``modern`` - reference to authenticity of experience, ``I have seen it`` - and of course the rejection of the past.

of the imagery the author relates as experience (a lot like Rushdi?): what is central to modernism is derogation of the cognitive.

``Only as an esthetic product can the world be justified to all eternity`` Nietzche

``...The tremendous awe which seizes man when he suddenly begins to doubt the cognitive modes of experience...when in a given instance the law of causation seems to suspend itself...if an aesthetic product is a work of art, art requires illusion - and maker of illusions!...We have art in order not to perish of the truth`` Nietzche

or is the reality/imagery Foucaultian madness? is the levi-strauss notion that distinctions such as ``primitive`` and ``advanced`` meaningless? Will reality said to have been sufficiently derogated to reason meaningless?

Again we are back to meaning and how does one live one`s life - we`re back to traditional religion and it`s framework of meaning, man in cosmology - anyway it should be clear that I at least remain very sceptical of constructs and world views that are hostile to traditional religions as I remain sceptical of pretensions, usurpations actually, by the creator of illusions, the role of guides for society. Well it where my thinking is these days.

Saminashah

“To The Cut-n-Paste Dyspeptic Duo,”

….pointless wasting your breath on them, samina…their holier-than-thou bs reeks so bad that it’s not worth it…

jay

.....what`s with this mohajir business ?

.... i hate to disappoint you but mohajirs, aka, mutterwas, hindustanis and bhaiyas are generally more educated, liberal and open-minded than the non-mohajirs ....their chal challan and generally infidel ways have always shocked the incorrigible pathans, rural paindoo punjabis and the ignorant haris of sind .... they turned karachi into what hamzad afaqui would call a kanjar-khana, and very few of them ever join the jihadi lashkars or the taliban - they are more likely to join the boy-bands and multi-nationals ...... you obviously haven`t met any of the savages from the mohmand agency who change their six-yard shalwar once a year, marry off their daughters to the koran ( those who survive honor-killings) and spit niswar all over the sidewalk ( now, this might be a debatable point - is the mohajir`s red paan peek any better than khan sahib`s green squirt ? )...... the most rabid mullahs who would have us dispatch you horrible hindoos to greener cow-pastures are all pathans - qazi hussain, maulana fazlur rehman, maulana sami-ul-haq ..... the bhaiyas and the mutterwas are represented by dog-loving musharraf and that man in london .........

........ so quit ranting about the mohajirs and find something else to make your point ... in my mind the biggest culprit in creating fools in pakistan has been the military, pakistan television and the urdu press .... having said that, i still think you guys who live on the wrong side of the border are equally foolish in addition to being horrible vegetarians ......

re: hamidm

{...... where is the silent majority that we keep on hearing about? .... most pakistanis, specially those living in the west, are guilty of perpetuating and sustaining the most virile form of islamism - the kind that pretends to be different from the taliban strain, yet is more deadly and is slowly spreading its poison .......}

right on!...particuarly after reading retards like that detroit mullah and afaqui...but there is a `silent` group...don`t know if it is a majority, but it is there...if no one else, the couple of pakis i hang around with in real life....but then they are probably not even considered real muslims...i doubt they can remember the last time they were in a mosque...