I Hate Ashley Giles

its gr8....a sort of autobiography....sweet attempt....Luv Ankit

Unlike SRT........

Hussain`s is the example to follow

Prem Panicker reflects on the England skipper`s reaction to the quality

of umpiring in the Kolkata ODI last Saturday.

http://www.rediff.com/cricket/2002/jan/21diary.htm

Re: gfm

Wait a minute! Yes you said that you thought SRT was better than DC but then you laced on several disclaimers regarding ‘guts & determination’ and 2nd inning averages and what not. Anywho…

About SRT’s dismissal against Flintoff. See what I mean about that silly shot through midwicket? The reason why he gets bowled to Razzaq, Nash, Cronje, Flintoff and the like playing this same shot can be attributed to boredom and lack of respect for these bowlers more than fear of pace which a lot of people claim. He should just learn as great as he is that he just doesn’t have the bat speed like Viv or even Gilchrist, Cairns or Afridi for that matter.

I thought he had put that shot in the dustbin a while ago so it was disappointing to see him employ it again with such disastrous consequences.

I think he will score at least one hundred in the series. In a lot of ways the key is Ganguly. If Ganguly keeps it rotating early then SRT seems to flourish. But every time Ganguly gets bogged down and eats up 45 balls from the first ten, you’ll find SRT give it up near the end of field restrictions. You may have noticed him getting scores like 35 off 30 balls and get out in the 13-14th over. Well that’s because Ganguly on the other end is playing at 25 off 50 which compels ST to take more risks.

Anyway, it was an interesting discussion for me too. Hope to run into you again next year when Chowk prints another cricket article that is not a verbatim ball-by-ball match report by that Murtaza dude.

Late.

You know Pbum....I am liking this argument.

Firstly you`ve said

``disagreed on all accounts`` to my statements.

Even though in my previous reply I had stated that compton is better than Sachin. Which unless you disagree, as per your reply is quite the contrary.

It just goes back to your argument that it is hard to judge the greatest batsman against different years as well as criteria of ``greatestness.`` Now if I judge the greatness of a batsman against temperment versus averages and centuries scored, then people like Miandad and Grenidge come to mind.

Well I suppose we can`t fuss about this argument for ever. As you said I have my opinions and you have yours.

Hobbs - you believe that in his time fielders hardly field as they do now (a good point) but your forget that in England there was no protection against the quicks and wickets were more under prepared than they are now, allowing for more grass hence more seam and turn. (Dillip Doshi in his book states that an off-spinner can turn the ball on a green wicket in May in England)

That is why Wisden (though heavily biased in other areas) rates Hobbs in the top 5 of all great players.

Anyway, as a parting note may SRT help India win a tour overseas and the WC.

However what was SRT thinking in the ODI at Eden Gardens trying to hoik right arm over rubbish Flintoff over square leg?

Should score at least a couple of 100s against the poms.....

You know Pbum....I am liking this argument.

Firstly you`ve said

``disagreed on all accounts`` to my statements.

Even though in my previous reply I had stated that compton is better than Sachin. Which unless you disagree, as per your reply is quite the contrary.

It just goes back to your argument that it is hard to judge the greatest batsman against different years as well as criteria of ``greatestness.`` Now if I judge the greatness of a batsman against temperment versus averages and centuries scored, then people like Miandad and Grenidge come to mind.

Well I suppose we can`t fuss about this argument for ever. As you said I have my opinions and you have yours.

Hobbs - you believe that in his time fielders hardly field as they do now (a good point) but your forget that in England there was no protection against the quicks and wickets were more under prepared than they are now, allowing for more grass hence more seam and turn. (Dillip Doshi in his book states that an off-spinner can turn the ball on a green wicket in May in England)

That is why Wisden (though heavily biased in other areas) rates Hobbs in the top 5 of all great players.

Anyway, as a parting note may SRT help India win a tour overseas and the WC.

However what was SRT thinking in the ODI at Eden Gardens trying to hoik right arm over rubbish Flintoff over square leg?

Should score at least a couple of 100s against the poms.....

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

re:hydra

“And what exactly have `mullah` done to you ?Whois you role model inthe west among the female ?Jewish girls & catholic Sarah McLoghlin never deride rabbi or pope ?”

…sigh…as usual, you’ve missed the point by about a mile…what i said was that anwar’s joined the mullah brigade….ie, he’s put off playing cricket (for the time being, i hope) to concentrate on more….um…non-worldly desires…pak’s batting is suspect as it is, so it hurts to see such talent not be used…notice, i didn’t say anything abt mullahs, per se…but as usual, you’ll miss the point again , and make whatever you want of it….

…ps…even nice muslim girls wouldn’t dare deride the pope…he’s too cute…

#22

...hmmm...well, i`m going to hold you up to this...i still say stats wats can be thrown out the window anytime...but now that i think of it you may be on to smt...looks like anwar has decided to join the mullah brigade...sigh...maybe he`ll start scoring at the rate his beard`s growing....

And what exactly have `mullah` done to you ?Whois you role model inthe west among the female ?Jewish girls & catholic Sarah McLoghlin never deride rabbi or pope ?

gfm

“And this goes towards my greatest criticism of SRT - that he doesn`t handle pressure well - a mark of many of the greatest.``

….that and in no way is he cut out to be a leader….but that said, sachin is sachin….

pbum:

``My dear semiprecious,

Saeed Anwar is 34, if he plays for another 10 years I will be a blue monkey’s momma!! Anyway, Anwar scores a ton every 12 games as an opener. My projections are based on 30 ODIs a year. If I give Anwar the same projections as Tendulkar he will end up with 29 hundreds. Ganguly is the one who projects the best after Tendulkar, he should end up with 42 if all goes well. Obviously the openers are the ones who stand any chance at the total ODI century record.``

...hmmm...well, i`m going to hold you up to this...i still say stats wats can be thrown out the window anytime...but now that i think of it you may be on to smt...looks like anwar has decided to join the mullah brigade...sigh...maybe he`ll start scoring at the rate his beard`s growing....

Banjara,

I haven’t watched much cricket of pre 1970 so I cant make definite assessment regarding your points but from what little I have gleaned, the out-fielding was terrible. Game planning & Field strategies were also non-existent. I think these factors over-ride the factors like exposed pitches, lack of headgear & absence of bouncer & beamer restrictions. All you have to do is look at the scores they made in those days.

Players who played back then tend to glorify their respective eras. This probably explains why Bradman has Ironmonger listed as one of the great spinners!!

I remember an interview with Pankaj Roy just before he died where he claimed that none of the current bowlers except Lee & Akhtar would be considered ‘fast’ back when he played. He though Lindwall & Miller both pushed 95 mph regularly and described how Lindwall used to beam him all the time. The one thing he did say that actually made some sense is that Batsmen seem to have developed the tendency to play away from their body too often. I think this is true just based on what I have seen. I guess you can ‘blame’ ODI for that.

Although I do think that there is a certain kind of player (usually a southpaw) who relies on his eye more than his feet (Ganguly, Anwar, Lara) and a few righties (Laxman, Cairnes). When their eye is in, they just blaze away but they are prone to long stretches of slumps due to their inherently faulty technique. Maybe the incidence of such players is greater these days because their successes are magnified by the more forgiving format of the ODIs.

pbum & gfm

Intresting discussion on great batsmen from both

of you.More power and more discussions.However,

both of you seem to miss one pertinent point viz

the preactice of covered pitches from late 70s.

Prior to that,the elements had a great influence

on batting and batsmanship.What is your take on

that and also dont forget the modern protective

gears including helmet.

Regards.

Dear gfm,

Disagreed on all counts!

1.Regarding Hobbs. I reiterate my argument that his scores and averages are greatly inflated because back in the day these guys would flay Sunday league bowling and then get hammered on stout. They used to score 3500 first class runs each season because they played a ton of games against any town that had a mine & a pub. Just look his test average, its 60 against horrible fielding. And I cant believe how otherwise intelligent people keep bringing up this fallacious argument that sub-continental players have higher averages because they play on flat tracks while his lordship over here with the bad teeth needs to be credited for playing the seaming ball. I’d like to see Hobbs play quality spin. If batting in sub-continent was easy then wouldn’t Mark Waugh & Brian Lara just go to town when they tour India? How come all these white dudes who pooh pooh Tendulkar’s average because he plays half his games in India don’t have higher averages when they come to India? How come the great Ricky Ponting shivers like a little schoolgirl who’s seen King Kong when he sees Venkatapathi Raju??

2.Regarding Compton. What Ashes are you talking about?? In the early half of the century the Aussies dominated England. The lordships had to resort to tricks like Bodyline and even then Bradman & McCabe embarrassed them. If you’re talking about 53 or 56/57, Compton’s averages were pretty pedestrian. Compton averages 42 lifetime against the Aussies and Tendulkar 54. I rest my case!

3.Regarding Barry. Like I said before, Barry Richards averages 54 in first class cricket. In plain English therefore: Barry Richards performs as well against Kwa-zulu Natal, Glamorgan, Cheshire & horsemanureshire as Tendulkar performs against one of the best teams in the history of the game.

Pbum

P.S: And actually Compton played quite a bit in the sub-continent. He played for the ‘Europeans’ in the Indian circuit and also for the Maharaja of Holkar.

Okay Pbum,

In the continuing and healthy argument of our cricketing debate allow me to defend the Compton, Barry Richards and Jack Hobbs comparison to the great Sachin Tedulkar.

Firstly Jack Hobbs. The statistics that you have sprewned on what SRT will make in the future bares more resemblence to what Hobbs did. Granted Hobb`s career was more focused towards first class cricket as in those days you only played tests against the aussies and the kiwis. But still, his achievements for those times with pot bellied fielders who hated running is still quite remarkable considering it is easier to bat in India, SL and Pakistan where the ball doesn`t swing or seam unlike England.

To Mr. Compton. Okay I give you this one. SRT is better than Compton. But Compton more or less was the main factor in an amazing ashes series behind the defeat of the aussies. He had the guts and determination - willing to play the long knocks in the 2nd innings against the great foe. Your 47 average for SRT`s 2nd innings seems a little low for the greatest batsman since the Don. And this goes towards my greatest criticism of SRT - that he doesn`t handle pressure well - a mark of many of the greatest.

Thirdly to Barry Richards. Yes apartheid cut his career short. But his 74 average was against some high class fast bowling not like ahzar who scored it on the flat track wickets of the sub-continent against crappy english spinners like edmond and embruey. Also for Barry - he was the 2nd highest run getter in the Kerry Packer series after Sir Viv and that was against world class bowling.

Had he been allowed to play I reckon as do many other experts that he would have re-written the record books.



Dear gfm,

Obviously any semblance of consensus here seems far-fetched so here are some parting notes:

1. I am not using religion as a pretext for anything. I was merely giving you a heads up regarding my nick lest you go bonkers with these ‘b u m’ insults. The reason I rebuked you was because you based you argument on a blatant lie. Saying that SRT averages 30 in the 2nd innings is like saying Imran Nazir is better than Zaheer Abbas!

2. Comparing players of different eras for obvious reasons has its pitfalls but one thing is for sure, my conclusion regarding relative potency of bowling attacks over various eras would be diametrically opposite to yours. If you were to research various aspects like bowler’s strike rates, batting averages, average team totals & frequency of results in tests you would reach a pretty irrefutable conclusion that batting today is much tougher than ever before. All you have to do is watch some tapes of the various performances you laude such as SMG in 71, the quality of field settings and fielding itself is absolutely laughable!

3. If you include SRT in the same elite group as Sobers, Viv & the Don, it seems like a reasonable assessment but you only tarnish the sanctity of this group by pulling in Hobbs, Compton & Barry Richards. Why these dudes? I mean while you’re at it let’s start throwing in Ponsford, Sutcliff, Hammond, Pollock, Gavaskar, Border! Hobbs is terribly over-rated. The pomms have this fetish with those who are prolific scorers in the counties. If you ask them Greame Hick is the best thing since sliced bread! Jack Hobbs averaged less than Tendulkar in an era where pot-bellied fielders applauded pushes past point all the way to the boundary lest their whites get sullied! Dennis Compton averages less than Rahul Dravid! And my favorite! Barry Richards the dumb ass! This dude played 4 tests in his lifetime and averages 72. Well Azhar averaged 90 after his first 4! Barry Richards has a first class average of like 54! Barry Richards indeed!

4. Here’s what Tendulkar will end up with in all likelihood if he stays relatively healthy and plays till 38:

Test runs: 16000 (next best 11000)

Test tons: 50 (next best 35)

ODI runs: 23000 (next best 10000)

ODI tons: 75 (next best 19!!!)

Lets see you compare him to Hobbs, Compton & Barry Richards then!

Nice Chatting.

My dear semiprecious,

Saeed Anwar is 34, if he plays for another 10 years I will be a blue monkey’s momma!! Anyway, Anwar scores a ton every 12 games as an opener. My projections are based on 30 ODIs a year. If I give Anwar the same projections as Tendulkar he will end up with 29 hundreds. Ganguly is the one who projects the best after Tendulkar, he should end up with 42 if all goes well. Obviously the openers are the ones who stand any chance at the total ODI century record. For your perusal below is a ranking of the most prolific openers in ODI.

I rank them using a century frequency statistic. Opened innings divided by no. of centuries.

1. Tendulkar – 6

2. Ganguly – 10

3. Anwar – 12

4. Astle – 12

5. Haynes – 12

6. Grennidge – 12

As you can see our boy SRT is head and shoulders above! To give you an idea of how good the above group is at getting centuries, the great Matara Mauler himself, Sanath Jayasurya gets a century every 22 innings!!

pbum

“ODI tons: 75 (next best 19!!!)”

…..right now, saeed anwar has 19 centuries….are u saying that he’s not going to improve on that?…in the next 10 yrs?!??…..

``pot-bellied fielders applauded pushes past point all the way to the boundary``

lol....loved it.

Dear gfm,

Obviously any semblance of consensus here seems far-fetched so here are some parting notes:

1. I am not using religion as a pretext for anything. I was merely giving you a heads up regarding my nick lest you go bonkers with these ‘b u m’ insults. The reason I rebuked you was because you based you argument on a blatant lie. Saying that SRT averages 30 in the 2nd innings is like saying Imran Nazir is better than Zaheer Abbas!

2. Comparing players of different eras for obvious reasons has its pitfalls but one thing is for sure, my conclusion regarding relative potency of bowling attacks over various eras would be diametrically opposite to yours. If you were to research various aspects like bowler’s strike rates, batting averages, average team totals & frequency of results in tests you would reach a pretty irrefutable conclusion that batting today is much tougher than ever before. All you have to do is watch some tapes of the various performances you laude such as SMG in 71, the quality of field settings and fielding itself is absolutely laughable!

3. If you include SRT in the same elite group as Sobers, Viv & the Don, it seems like a reasonable assessment but you only tarnish the sanctity of this group by pulling in Hobbs, Compton & Barry Richards. Why these dudes? I mean while you’re at it let’s start throwing in Ponsford, Sutcliff, Hammond, Pollock, Gavaskar, Border! Hobbs is terribly over-rated. The pomms have this fetish with those who are prolific scorers in the counties. If you ask them Greame Hick is the best thing since sliced bread! Jack Hobbs averaged less than Tendulkar in an era where pot-bellied fielders applauded pushes past point all the way to the boundary lest their whites get sullied! Dennis Compton averages less than Rahul Dravid! And my favorite! Barry Richards the dumb ass! This dude played 4 tests in his lifetime and averages 72. Well Azhar averaged 90 after his first 4! Barry Richards has a first class average of like 54! Barry Richards indeed!

4. Here’s what Tendulkar will end up with in all likelihood if he stays relatively healthy and plays till 38:

Test runs: 16000 (next best 11000)

Test tons: 50 (next best 35)

ODI runs: 23000 (next best 10000)

ODI tons: 75 (next best 19!!!)

Lets see you compare him to Hobbs, Compton & Barry Richards then!

Nice Chatting.

Dear gfm,

Obviously any semblance of consensus here seems far-fetched so here are some parting notes:

1. I am not using religion as a pretext for anything. I was merely giving you a heads up regarding my nick lest you go bonkers with these ‘b u m’ insults. The reason I rebuked you was because you based you argument on a blatant lie. Saying that SRT averages 30 in the 2nd innings is like saying Imran Nazir is better than Zaheer Abbas!

2. Comparing players of different eras for obvious reasons has its pitfalls but one thing is for sure, my conclusion regarding relative potency of bowling attacks over various eras would be diametrically opposite to yours. If you were to research various aspects like bowler’s strike rates, batting averages, average team totals & frequency of results in tests you would reach a pretty irrefutable conclusion that batting today is much tougher than ever before. All you have to do is watch some tapes of the various performances you laude such as SMG in 71, the quality of field settings and fielding itself is absolutely laughable!

3. If you include SRT in the same elite group as Sobers, Viv & the Don, it seems like a reasonable assessment but you only tarnish the sanctity of this group by pulling in Hobbs, Compton & Barry Richards. Why these dudes? I mean while you’re at it let’s start throwing in Ponsford, Sutcliff, Hammond, Pollock, Gavaskar, Border! Hobbs is terribly over-rated. The pomms have this fetish with those who are prolific scorers in the counties. If you ask them Greame Hick is the best thing since sliced bread! Jack Hobbs averaged less than Tendulkar in an era where pot-bellied fielders applauded pushes past point all the way to the boundary lest their whites get sullied! Dennis Compton averages less than Rahul Dravid! And my favorite! Barry Richards the dumb ass! This dude played 4 tests in his lifetime and averages 72. Well Azhar averaged 90 after his first 4! Barry Richards has a first class average of like 54! Barry Richards indeed!

4. Here’s what Tendulkar will end up with in all likelihood if he stays relatively healthy and plays till 38:

Test runs: 16000 (next best 11000)

Test tons: 50 (next best 35)

ODI runs: 23000 (next best 10000)

ODI tons: 75 (next best 19!!!)

Lets see you compare him to Hobbs, Compton & Barry Richards then!

Nice Chatting.

Hey Pbum,

Using religion as a pretext when insulted after insulting first is a very weak trait in a human being.

If you consider yourself to be a good Muslim I would ask you to refrain from insults on others - Using religious initials in ones username doesn`t a good muslim make.

Now back to our lovely debate on srt. While Don Bradman did praise the great Sachin saying that he bats similar to himself he has outlined Sobers

innings of 278 against australia as th greatest innings he has ever seen followed by Viv Richards 291 at the oval. Also the list of his batting eleven seems fake even to people like Gavaskar.

I don`t know how to repeat this to you but I never said that Sachin is not great. He is a great batsman. I just value Sobers, Viv Richards, Bradman, Barry Richards, Hobbs and Compton above him. Considering the history of cricket I still say it is a great achievement for SRT and with another 10-12 years left in his career he can prove me worng - a strong possibility.

But he has a way to go. I believe the in past there were more quality fast bowlers around and had SRT been born then (15-25 years before) I believe his average would be lower. Facing the likes of Marshall, roberts, holding, garner, hadlee, imran, botham, willis, hogg, lillee, thompson compared today to the like of todays fast bowlers would have been a different treat.

You say bowlers like Razzaq and Nash trouble him now. I would even venture to say that Gavaskar is still a better test batsman (especially in the 70s (v WI)).

I remember the first time I saw SRT hit qadir around for 26 runs in an over and thought that this guy is the real thing. He had aggression and the strokes and the timing. I just feel he is lost that aggression against quality pace and just needs to take the game to the bowlers. Mind you he has done it as you rightly point out but more less than often.

Its probably becuase he has to stay there for India most of the time - and can`t afford to take the risks.

Dear gfm,

The ‘b u m’ in my nick stands for ‘Be Upon Mohammad’. So please be careful where you go with that.

You make the two big mistakes people make (deliberately) in accessing greatness or lack thereof. You give more credence to individual performances than a cumulative body of work and you discredit an individual’s performance due to the dismal performance of his team.

I can’t remember a single significant instance of an Indian team out-batting an opposition to win a test match recently. The only time the Indian team wins is when assisted by home conditions its spin attack is able to bowl the opposition out twice. Even in the Laxman/ Dravid game that you talk about, the partnership saved the game for India (which Tendulkar has done on many occasions). The win in that game was secured by the seven wickets the Indian spin attack took in the final session of the game. The spurt of seven wickets interestingly enough was nowhere in sight until Tendulkar took 3 quick wickets!

Also interesting to see you bring up Razzaq who has bowled Tendulkar three times in ODIs. Tendulkar himself has said that the three bowlers he has the most trouble with are Cronje, Nash & Razzaq. These are all bowlers who can move the ball both ways at 125-140 kph with a lot of variation in length & pace. This is the kind of bowler that bothers Tendulkar the most because his over zealousness to score couple with the uncertainty in pace forces him into shots that are unwise.

Tendulkar has taken the likes of Donald & Lee to the cleaners many a time! And while you are mentioning ODI performances, how about Tendulkar’s 130s in back-to-back games (semis & finals) against Australia at the peak of their game? These were games where every single person in the ground and watching on TV knew that one ball (that gets Tendulkar out) will mean its over for India and the guy hammered them through terrible batting conditions... sand storm and all to win both games. After this, the greatest spinner ever confessed that he got nightmares about Tendulkar.

Don’t diss the dude cuz the poor guy’s busy saving India’s rear end all the time and cant win all the games single handedly as 3 of his team mates are fixing matches for the other team.

And as far as the comparison to the Don goes, this comparison has not been ‘engineered by the Indian intelligence (oxymoron unintended)’, but promoted by the Don himself.

You don’t think Tendulkar’s the greatest since Don Bradman and you have a right to your opinion but I do think so and my opinion is corroborated by the late Don Bradman himself. But then, what does he know!

pbum

P.S: Oh and about being bowled frequently. Early in his career Tendulkar was considered `unbowlable`. The rap on him was to exploit the `drive on the up` tendency by putting in a short cover and always have both a point and a cover-point and then try short of the length stuff outside the off stump with pace variations to see if he hits uppish. Later in his career he became much more agressive and developed the drive through midwicket off balls bowled outside the off-stump (primarily becasue they were packing the off side for him). This is the shot that gets him clean bowled the most (the Shoaib & the Ambrose balls were blinders and exceptions). Viv Richards played this shot with impunity without ever getting bowled becasue he had a much better bat speed than Tendulkar. Off late Tendulkar has not been playing this shot too much and you dont really see him getting bowled any more.

And as far as Lara goes... He gets taken out by Tendulkar (including cartwheeling off stumps and all) all the time. I dont know if you`ve ever seen this confrontation but its funny beyond belief. Lara plays out maidens by Tendulkar and then flays Srinath to pieces at the other end!

hey pbum, (I can understand why you have the bum in your name)

Tendulkar is the greatest batsman to have ever come out of the sub-continent.

However in the present day of cricket I do rate Lara above him. Lara is the world record holder for the highest score in both forms of the game and has scored more double centuries than Sachin.

Yes Lara has suffered from a bad patch of form but his performanace against SL in the recent series showed his complete dominance of the bowling and the return of the old lara.

I have never really seen Tendulkar completely go crazy on the attack against a strong bowling team that has won India the game. On the contrary I don`t expect a batsmen of his ``esteemed Bradman`` class as you so suggest been bowled so badly so frequently. This suggests a severe weakness against quality pace.

A few that come to mind

1. Donald to sachin in SA (inswinger middle stump)

2. shoaib akhtar (Calcutta golden duck middle stump)

3. razzaq 3 times in a row (off-stump) united world series

4. waqar younis to srt (hyderabad odi)

5. ambrose to srt

Batsman I rate above Sachin are : Bradman, Barry Richards, Dennis Compton, Jack Hobbs, VIv Richards, Brian Lara.

Dont` get me wrong he is one of the greatest that ever blessed the game and probably the best on-driver of the ball I have ever seen. But when you compare him to Bradman and say he is the greatest since, then I am afraid he is overrated.

The average of 47 that you correctly told (sorry for my ignorance) is still not as high I would expect suggesting that he is weaker at chasing scores or playing for draws.

Plus wasim akram has a higher test score in test cricket than sachin!!!

Sorry, DRUMZ - I forgot to mention the link is called:``songs of love and devotion``

Chowk Editors and Chowkwallahs:

Apologies for sidetracking this board temporarily, but I have a request of all chowkwallahs:

I don`t know if I am the only one who has this difficulty, but many times on Chowk I`ve wanted to follow more than two reply threads and to have them visible on the screen at the same time. Rather than simply make a request, I`ve tried to solve this, and have put together a sample Chowk site at:

http://members.home.net/qawwalli1/

At the bottom of the page are links to the sample site. This is what you need to click on. To get into it the user name is: concept and the password is also: concept (both lower case). The page that comes up has a link called ``redesigned chowk``.

My humble request is to ask as many of you as possible to look at it and let me know if it just a waste of time or if it really is something useful. If useful, Chowk Editors, you may have it (if you like it of course!)

Now, for DRUMZ (and actually for others who may be interested as well): DRUMZ, a while ago you had made a comment that you did not find Islam deep enough or profound enough. That makes me ask of you a small favor: I`ve provided a link (named ``DRUMZ``) which will take you to an article on the same site. Hope you find it readable enough - I`d really like to hear your comments after you read it. No problem if you don`t (at worst you can always click right out of it!)

For those who explore the site further (there are visual goodies!) A warning!! This is a site that has Flash/audio and needs a cable or fast connection. Please explore, move the mouse around and click away everywhere on the fashion site page.

Dear gfm (numb nuts)

Yaar how come you flat out lie when looking at the records can easily refute your lies?

You seem to be suggesting that Tendulkar is a flat track bully and does not score well on the road. You also seem to be suggesting that Tendulkar chokes in the clutch by claiming that he averages 30 in the 2nd innings.

Tendulkar averages 47 in 2nd innings you liar!

You say Tendulkar is over-rated? Well, who would you say are the truly great batsmen of our time? Lara? Junior? Well let¡¦s use your criteria to determine true greatness. Overall Average, Road Average & 2nd Inning Average. Here¡¦s how they Stack up:

Overall Average:

1. Tendulkar - 58

2. Lara - 50

3. M. Waugh - 42

Road Average:

1. Tendulkar - 54

2. Lara - 47

3. Waugh - 41

2nd Inning Average

1. Tendulkar - 47

2. Lara - 40

3. Waugh - 37

So I guess if Tendulkar is over-rated then Lara & Mark Waugh are downright mediocre!

If you say that India is a terrible team, I¡¦ll give you that. If you say that the Indian Bowling attack couldn¡¦t dismiss Bhawalpur twice in five days I¡¦ll give you that. But don¡¦t call Tendulkar over-rated. Poor Don will start turning in his grave!

what a crock!!! While Sachin is a great cricketer, he was caught red handed by the TV cameras picking the seam of the ball. Nonetheless Mike Denness banning the other Indian players for excessive appealing was totally wrong and uncalled for.

Secondly there is nothing wrong with what Giles and Hussain did. It is within the rules of the game just like India makes flat tracks for test cricket so that its batsmen like Tendulkar can score and break records.

If Tendulkar is such a great bat, then why could he not deal with Giles leg side bowling? It is like getting angry at Murali for bowling sharp turning off spinners or at Brett Lee for bowling too many bouncers.

Thirdly, I can`t remember him playing a match winning innings in a test match -like Dravid and Laxman.

The bubble will be burst when you examine Sachin`s 2nd innings average in a test match which is lower than 30.

Overall SRT is a great batsman but heavily overrated

“Poor SRT, all that he had to offer to that negative line, was his butt.”

….negative line or not, the point being it worked, lured him into the trap and got him out…

creative perspective

obviously a lot more tales remain to be told using this device

umpires examining box of balls, balls making contact with sensitive zones, bottlecaps, balls being rubbed near szones etc, white balls vs red, night vs day play, retired balls, balls ground into the dust till the stitches come off

All this whining about the negative line is bullcrap. What`s stopping Tendulkar from taking 120 deliveries in his butt? I will guarantee you that after 3 overs of wasted deliveries Giles would have changed his line.

I think the line was justified because India is a one man team. Hussein thought that if he could tie up Tendulkar the others would fold up like a pack of Jokers, which they did.

Instead of bitching and moaning about match referees and negative lines and aussie agression, maybe if the Indian fans spent some time offering prayer to the almighty to provide 10 other good cricketers to supplant the one great one it`d be more productive.

Funny.

Mona

I wonder what this cherry thinks of The Rawalpindi Express?

Ras