America’s Responsibility

re hamzad 438

``It is from Der spiegel.Now when the bride will curse you in German the you might think she is reading Nietsche to you.No?``

Who knows. Whether it is Arab anti-Judaism or German anti-Semitism, bigotry sounds the same to my untrained ears.

Prem----440

So you were erolled in the German laguage course for three months?That much I can still understand with my einstuffe(long time ago);) enough to snare a frauline.

It is Der Spiegel & it is important that we learn to read or believe based on MY credibility & not any other source.CNN,FOX,BBC are,in my opinion,the biggest liars not because they are any less moral but because they are better equipped and have been able to corner a world market in the business of LYING aka NEWS.I prefer boutiques & mom-&-pop stores of ``LIARS`` of my choice.

It would be nice if the news-agencies of the THUGS(US) are similarly questioned & suspected.Some of by nature or design root for the underdog---and I happen to be one of those.

Just because you were so nice:source Taggespiegel---January 13,2002.Check it out.

Reply Dost-Mittar # 416

“Shouldn`t the U.S be governed by the same values abroad that it uses in its domsestic affairs?”

Many would say that it is.

:-)

shankar---430

[[I`ll say one thing about Indians--we are wily mofos--]]

What a gem!

But I really do not believe that India has stooped that low.Even as a slang it does not sit well with me.I just cannot stand to see such vulgarity used even for an `enemy`.But then you have already admitted that you have acquired all the filth & fashion from the west.No wonder both the countries are in a mess.

You made great Indians on board squirm here,especially the cultured ones like dost mittar,prem,jay,etc rather than Pakistanis.Pakistanis are noted for their ability to not let any water drops stay on their feathers.

I however agree with you that India runs its machine much better than Pakistan.Devoid of a respect for Law and tradition any society would lose its moorings & would start listing aimlessly.That unfortuately,is Pakistan.Adherence to the letter of even an unjust but uniformly applied law is preferable to a rule by whim,fiat or fancy.Mafia runs better because of such internal & strict dos & donts but a well-meaning & well-intended charity runs aground fast if employees are habitually late & without retribution.

[I`ll say one thing about Indians--we are wily mofos--]

No arab source this.Not that anythings wrong with ANY source after CNN---Certainly Not News.

__________________________________________________

12/18/01 (revised 1/11/02 to fix minor errors)

Danny Glover Under Attack

by Fran Korte

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Danny Glover, actor, activist, and board member of the Positive Futures Network, has been coming under a hailstorm of attacks based on an incident following a speech he gave at Princeton on November 15.

This is not just about Danny. It`s about all of us. As Danny noted in his speech ``When we fear, we clamp down on those who do not think like us or who do not look like us.`` We see that happening everywhere, as our leaders look for total support for their military agenda and view dissent as unpatriotic.

As we enter this McCarthyesque period, I think we are all called upon to be more courageous, more articulate in our views, and more supportive of one another.

HERE`S WHAT HAPPENED TO DANNY

On November 15, at the invitation of the local Amnesty International chapter, Danny gave a speech about the death penalty to a packed auditorium at Princeton University. Danny is well known for his opposition to the death penalty. He pointed out that 98 death row inmates have recently been released after new evidence demonstrated their innocence. He also noted the racial bias in the system in which 43 percent of 741 executed prisoners were African Americans. His speech was received enthusiastically by a sympathetic audience.

After the close of the speech, when many had already left the auditorium, a young man questioned Danny in such racist language that the remaining audience booed the questioner. Danny signaled for quiet, saying we need to listen to all. The questioner accused Danny of ``playing the victim`` and suggested he go back and fix his own communities rather than blame racism. Another questioner wanted to know if Danny would extend his opposition to the death penalty to Osama bin Laden. Danny affirmed his opposition to the death penalty, period. The provocative exchange continued, with Danny noting that America has been a key purveyor of violence in this world. Danny also voiced his objections to the military tribunals that President Bush has created.

These comments have elicited a hailstorm of outrage. For two weeks The Trentonian newspaper ran angry comments suggesting that if Danny didn`t love this country he should leave it -- and worse. Ollie North broadcast the story across the country on his Radio America show, provoking hundreds of hate-filled calls to Danny`s agency in Los Angeles. Ollie urged his audience to boycott The Royal Tenenbaums -- a movie released in late December in which Danny stars along with Gwyneth Paltrow, Gene Hackman, Anjelica Huston, Ben Stiller, Bill Murray, and others.

In Modesto, California, the controversy caused the City to pull out of its plan to sponsor Danny as the featured speaker for the celebration of Martin Luther King Day. Fortunately, the local planning committee for the event has maintained their invitation and Danny plans to speak. According to the Modesto Bee, ``John Lucas, president of the Modesto Peace Life Center, one of the sponsors, noted that King himself was controversial and criticized the Vietnam War. Lucas does not think Glover`s views are much different from those King might have had if he were alive today. `The interesting thing I find is that Martin Luther King wouldn`t be invited to his own event,``` he said.

WHAT YOU CAN DO

Those who would stifle dissent are quick to express their opinions and target anyone who takes a larger view of patriotism. We too must be ready to respond quickly in our vigilant defense of real democracy.

* *MODESTO: Show support for Danny -- and for free speech -- in Modesto. If you know anyone around that area, urge them to attend! Danny will speak on Saturday, January 19 at 7:00 p.m. at the Christ Unity Baptist Church at 1320 L St. in Modesto (Call the Peace Life Center for further information: 209/529-5750).

Fax the City of Modesto at 209/571-5586 or write them at P.O. Box 642, Modesto CA 94341 saying you support free speech and disagree with their decision to pull their backing for Danny`s appearance at the MLK Day activities.

* *THE MOVIE: Here`s an easy one. See the Royal Tenenbaums -- don`t let Ollie North`s call for a boycott depress the box office.

* *MLK Day. Let`s celebrate Martin Luther King Day with an extra measure of clarity about his courage in consistently urging this nation to live up to its ideals of democracy, freedom, and peace.

* *SUPPORT EACH OTHER. Let`s look for every opportunity to support one another. What happened to Danny is happening to many others. This is a time for courage and mutual support.

Hamzad Afaqui,

Ich verstehen Deutsches wenig. I studied/played with it for drei monaten.

Do you mean to say that the what you pasted in # 413 is from the Der Spiegel(http://www.spiegel.de/)??!!

If you read it there yourself, I will certainly take your word for it. However, if you got that from some other website, could it be possible that they are flat out lying (again) about the source? May be we can check things out for ourselves if you give us the relevant url(s).

Much of what you pasted is, ofcourse, openly credited to NNI, which is a Pakistani news agency.

Regards.

Prem---433

Thanks.Since you have chosen to be the arbiterator the please notice that the source is Der Spiegel.

Our untrustworthiness of our own thinking has reached such a low level & our self-loathing so high that we do believe our smart `average` Pakistani or Indian.

No wonder others have low opinion about us.

If it is not a western source,it is suspect.If it is the west is superior.You are damned if you do & damned if you don`t.

Al-Jazeera has finally shattered the fragile myth of the western media & its so-called ``educatedness`` & fairness and objectivity.The bhoora-goraa slaves have taken such ``education`` as truth and unfortunately truly became educated(a curse upon anyone) and have been rendered incapacitated to use their own minds.

Indo-Pakis must remember that they are not pre-tanned,rare or well-done whites they are brownies,darkies,blackies who to be even considered half-educated must know their mother tongue better than any acquired language,must have courage to eat,drink,& dress their own stuff & flaunt it at the risk of ``offending`` the true goraas.Until & unless the Indo-Pakis start doing things which cost them their jobs or creature comforts they will always be the top & only mental slaves anywhere.Their lives will always be those of an a/rse-kisser and a boot-licker.

Look around no group of people are such willing & slimy slaves.

Learn something from Afro-American who just could not be eslaved although they were bought & chained.See how they challenge authority & walk tall.No conniving calculating kind these great people like some of our ``professinal`` jobbers.

sigalph235--435

It is from Der spiegel.Now when the bride will curse you in German the you might think she is reading Nietsche to you.No?

asah----436

Thanks for calling me maulvi & maulana but I regret to inform you that I did not even graduate as a munshi faazil.Your trivialising of this might lead someone to think that I really know something.But I don`t.And you know that,don`t you.:)

I don`t mind if you ridicule me as `professor` or `doctor`.

PS:and `mian` is a definite no no.It gives the image of you as a senile sixty year old(Underscore senile & fill-in the number if you are a bit put off).

``tahmed321 to hamzad #422 you ask ``What is wrong in being anti-US.``

Plenty. Just as there is plenty wrong in being anti-Pakistan, or anti-India, or anti-Muslim, or anti-Hindu. You were obviously never taught this, but you can live your life without hating any country, any religion, any group of people.

What is wrong in all this is that such hatreds detract from the real battlefield: the battle against poverty, disease, ignorance. Give this some thought before you cut-and-paste the next piece of garbage from some Arab paper.``(tahmed)

Hope humzad mian understands the difference between hating and critcizing other -- and finding the beam in one`s own -- as well.

You`re indeed a decent man tahmed -- wish some of you -- will rub on maulvi humzad and maulana naqshbadi -- or on maulana humzad and maulvi naqshbandi sahibs.

regards

re tahmed

``Give this some thought before you cut-and-paste the next piece of garbage from some Arab paper.``

Sir,it is holy garbage, if it`s Arab. I may have shared this family joke before but for the context I`ll share it again.

Given the fact that in the subcontinent sometimes the new bride and the in-laws don`t get along too well, my dad (in his olden secular days) used to say that his sons ought to marry Arab women. That way even if these girls were screaming absolute filth at their in-laws, the in-laws would probably think that these were the blessed recitations from the Holy Quran. Fortunately, none of us married any Arab women.

tahmad --431

It is not from some arab newspaper.It is from Der Spiegel.Nothing wrong in cut&paste from that source either.

Obviously you never got past even the first line where it is mentioned.Muslims have more friends among the westerners than you may even realise---and they are non-muslims too.

Battling poverty,disease and ignorace is a cardinal Islami injunction.One does not have to abandon ones home to be free---such people are called hobos or vagabonds.Pseudos or nominals have no fixed adresses that is the reason they are treated as suspects.

It is only but natural.

re: tahmed321 # 431 hamzad #422

Even if one is out-and-out anti-Pakistan or anti-USA, one does have a commitment to truth, which mustn`t go away...So hamzad, when you post something, please be at least reasonably confident of the material`s reliability. True, no one source is 100% reliable in all matters, and everyone has a certain bias, there is a huge difference in the trustworthiness of different sources of information on the Net.

Re: Shankar

``..domestic policy should be primarily be based on ideology & foreign policy should be primarily based on pragmatism...``

Reality is a bit more subtle than that. While most of what you say is true, it is possible for foreign policy to be based on ideology as well as pragmatism IF formal alliances/unions (e.g. EU) are struck. This, of course, results in surrendering some sovereignty by all participants, but also leads to the beneficial circumstance in which relations between states are regulated on the basis of certain shared ideals. Incidentally, international agreements/organizations where sovereignty is shed the least (e.g. UN, OIC) are also the ones that are criticized as being ineffective, whereas others, such as EU/NATO are effective precisely because most participants put their feet where their mouths are.

hamzad #422 you ask ``What is wrong in being anti-US.``

Plenty. Just as there is plenty wrong in being anti-Pakistan, or anti-India, or anti-Muslim, or anti-Hindu. You were obviously never taught this, but you can live your life without hating any country, any religion, any group of people. What is wrong in all this is that such hatreds detract from the real battlefield: the battle against poverty, disease, ignorance. Give this some thought before you cut-and-paste the next piece of garbage from some Arab paper.