An Indian salute for President Musharraf

babu # 411

url, please?

From The Outlook:

``...Musharraf is therefore going into battle with neither nationalism nor belief in progress (modernization) on his side. His quiver of arrows is therefore almost empty. Indians should pray for his success. The Indian government should do whatever it can to make his task easier. But it must not let down its guard against his possible failure, even for an instant. ...``

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20020128&fname=Column+Prem+%28F%29&sid=1

ADVANI lies under oath reveals



by DaughterInLaw on January 20, 2002



In an application filed before the Liberhan Commission, Gauri said that she was present at the meeting when the two leaders allegedly discussed plans for the Babri demolition.

Gauri requested she be made a witness before the commission to bring out the truth about the demolition. She called LK Advani`s statement before the Commission as “nothing but a bundle of lies based upon concocted and false facts.”

Gauri also said in her application that neither Advani nor his family practiced the Hindu religion and that the home minister had given a false `gotra` [clan] when asked for it before the commencement of the rath yatra. She said the family follows the Sikh religion.

Gauri Advani also disclosed that during and after the demolition of the Babri mosque, LK Advani got various silver gifts in the form of Hindu gods and goddesses, swords and bricks from Hindu individuals, associations and temples.

Since LK Advani and his family members do not follow Hinduism, all these silver items/gifts were melted in Bombay (with the help of Sarla Advani, sister of Kamla Advani who lives in Bombay) to make silver utensils and cutlery items which are now used in the Advani household.

http://www.guidedones.com/issues/regions/India/AdvaniDIL.htm

Re: Harimau

``...Give me an authoritative quote...``

Dear Harimau:

Here is an `authoritative quote` from the Ministry of External Affairs Website:

``...The yatra is organised by the Ministry of External Affairs, applications for which are invited during the month of March...``

http://meadev.nic.in/perspec/apr2001/kailash.htm

What business does the Government have in `organizing` pilgrimages/yatras for anyone? BTW, if you read the entire page, (which reads like a travel brochure) you will ask -- why is the Ministry doing this?

On a different note, I understand that the Vaishno Devi pilgrimage in J&K has been greatly facilitated by the improvement of the hiking trail by the (you guessed it) ARMY!! Why is the army asked to maintain it? What is wrong with the hordes of private contractors paid for by pilgrims` donations?

Re: Romair

``...Canadian Deputy Prime Minister John Manley said that Canada supported implementation of the UN Security Council resolution which called for holding plebiscite in Kashmir...``

Great! But does Canada support a plebiscite on Quebec that will grant independence based upon a simple (51%) majority there? (Don`t wait for the answer with bated anticipation -- the answer starts with an `N` and ends with an `o`).

Rsaxena #208 No one can stop anyone from writing on chowk. However, anyone can voice an opinion of that writing as well: that is all I am doing when I point to ``room for improvement`` (heh! heh!) in posts from people like you and Naqshbandi.

re:Reply #: 397

pullu,

Musharraf has to prove his credentials,plain and simple. There can be no duplicity in these matters as the ground realities are for all to see. If infiltrations continue from across the border (when, as Advani put it, not even a stray dog can cross without help),it will only mean that Pak has not changed its policies. I hope he realises that this will become a big issue. India is going in for diplomatic assault, preparing the western powers for an eventual showdown.

Pak thinks China will help. China did not help in 1971. US which was an ally did not help either,except some sabre rattling. Pak is truely isolated today. It should see the writing on the wall and do what is needed to convince India and the world that it is cracking down on terrorists.

Sridhar

Romair,

{{If it is the later, I would be interested in fiding out how successful you were....... }}

Ahah! you would, would`nt you? you voyeur you...

Every full moon, in the daytime, the hippies would have a gigantic ``flea market``--sell their dirty threadbare jeans, watches, cameras, stereos..whatever.. to finance money for hashish (after they expended their western money). Of course, we socialist Indians, starved for ``Western goods``, could find great bargains.

Then when the sun was down & the full moon was up, they would have a music festival on the beech--sorta like a mini Woodstock. Clothing was optional... lot of Rajneesh freaks..

I dont know if you`ve ever tried good ol Mary Jane. But when youre high or ``tun``, you become very docile, amiable, introspective & philosophical. You get a much better appreciation of music. Heck, ask DRUMZ :).Besides, I would imagine that you should know: the best hashish in India is Kashmiri. Almost as good as Kabuli hash. Probably explains why Kashmiris are so docile & amiable (or at least; were...).

General Must Fall on His Political Sword

By PAULA R. NEWBERG

January 20 2002

WASHINGTON -- Once again, Pakistan is at the center of a South Asian storm. Following a terrorist attack on India`s Parliament building that New Delhi blames on Islamabad, President Pervez Musharraf is working his way toward a new diplomacy. He is trying to stave off Indian retaliation, rearrange the remnants of his country`s old Afghanistan engagements, contemplate new Kashmiri strategies, find a way to combat intolerance at home and weave a path toward renewed relations with the United States.

Embedded in his frantic activity is a brutal irony: Pakistan`s army is squeezing the country into the world`s tightest corner, and although everyone, including the West, is banking on Musharraf`s rule, Pakistan`s survival depends on his capacity to relinquish power and move toward democracy.

Since its founding, Pakistan has been ruled too often by generals whose insecurity and poor judgment have left the country living on edge. The army`s interests--alliances to support nuclear experiments, close relations with China, meddling in Afghanistan and Kashmir and cheer for U.S. interests that did not always coincide with its own--have emboldened the military while exposing Pakistan to every danger that domestic instability and an unstable region could conjure up. The first casualty of military rule is accountability. When the army patronized extremists to do its bidding in Kashmir and Afghanistan, who could say ``no`` to misadventures that were endangering the state? When the same extremists broke the law by fomenting hatred and violence at home, the army couldn`t say ``no,`` either--at least, not without risking its foreign policies. When civil libertarians criticized the links between domestic insurgency and cross-border terror, no one was able to defend them from harassment.

Have things changed since the war against terrorism, the demise of the Taliban, the Indian-Pakistani skirmishes and recurring fears of war?

Judging by Musharraf`s recent speech, the answer is ``maybe.`` His plea for social progressivism, vague though it was, drew praise from foreigners and sighs of relief from the millions of anxious Pakistanis who have been held hostage to creeping intolerance, violence and, in Musharraf`s words, internal strife that is ``eating us up like termites.``

But a speech needs broadly-based policies, or it`s only public relations. Pakistan needs policies that rejuvenate its institutions, and these, in turn, require an engaged public. These are not goods that military governments usually value. Without them, however, the fundamental contradictions within Pakistan`s domestic and foreign policies will easily betray Musharraf`s determination to change course.

When foreign policy is predicated on fraud and terror, when the army advocates policies that require illegal actions to implement, when militant groups have enough resources to challenge the state`s monopoly on force, only a complete house-cleaning will do. Last week, Pakistan`s military government banned more extremist groups, although not enough of them to make a significant difference, and arrested more than 1,000 of their members. But Musharraf has yet to confront his hardest, most important jobs: overhauling foreign policy to protect Pakistan`s people, borders and economy, and ensuring that the fight against internal instability protects the rights of all Pakistanis.

This is why serious politics has to return to Pakistan, so that government can help build a compassionate state where liberty is the foundation for security. Not Musharraf`s politics of constrained public discourse, docile elected bodies and a paternalism mired in old-fashioned feudalism. Rather, Pakistan needs political contests that encourage open debate, enshrine the value of fundamental rights and challenge--finally--the verities that army rule has persuaded civil society to accept for too long.

It would be better, of course, if a political makeover did not emerge from fear of war. Pakistan`s crackdown on religious extremism looks like a response to Indian pushing and U.S. pulling, even though it is Pakistanis who have been trying--and until now, failing--to excise extremism from within. Had Musharraf seriously gone after terrorism when he took office in a military coup in 1999, Pakistan and its neighbors would probably be much safer, peaceful places. Instead, even some of Pakistan`s embattled liberals now fear that Musharraf is as good as they will get from an army laced with militancy.

This is why army rule has to go--because Pakistanis should be able to choose, not cower and compromise. If Musharraf truly believes his words, then he will ultimately have to stand habit on its head and, like enlightened authoritarians elsewhere, do himself out of his job.

This is why Musharraf`s patrons in London and Washington need to measure their actions with care. For the moment, Musharraf may seem like a pliable autocrat who sounds like a politician and thinks like a general.

But those who believe that terrorism can only be countered by military strongmen should take another look at Pakistan, where authoritarianism and army rule have consistently fostered instability and insecurity. And then they should ask how long Pakistanis should pay for short-term thinking and politically empty, military-dominated partnerships.

In the past, political change has come to Pakistan in the wake of war, assassination and tectonic shifts in international politics. If the silver lining in today`s South Asian conflicts is a belated recognition that civilians should run armies and armies should not run states, then we may all be a bit wiser and much, much safer.

Paula R. Newberg is an international consultant who works in conflict-affected regions and writes regularly about politics in South Asia.

re asif n 399 and others

The Quran does not mention anything about the Al-Aqsa mosque; rather it is the interpretation of humans that the place mentioned in the Night of Power is Jerusalem. I must admit that you guys have used it splendidly to spew anti-Semitism.

There was never a thing as Palestine, insofar as a self-contained political entity is concerned. Never was and never will be. As a Prime Minister of Pakistan said so well almost fifty years ago, Israel has come to stay. The support of the US is irrelevant here. A people like the Israelis who, inspite of all provocations, maintain a pluralist, representative democracy and a non-corrupt government will never be overtaken by camel-riding, 100 wife-marrying, infidel-killing bedouins.

You see Asif, Israel is a symbol of the free world in a region where freedom is unheard of. Hence the rest of us share an affinity for her which your anti-semitism can never explain away. Those of us who truly believe in freedom will always support the right of Israel to exist within safe and secure frontiers with a united Jerusalem as her ancient and eternal capital. You guys have not finished her in 50 years inspite of overwhelming odds in your favor(50 countries against 1). Whose side do you think God is on?

Israel`s safety is freedom`s safety.

SameerJB #3

Sameer;

No, no, and no. You know better, or ought to.

I know that you do.

Jeevay

re: TAhmed to Asif

{How dare you come back on chowk, dig out a post several hundred posts deep, to start your garbage.}

be nice...chowk is for everyone..don`t try to hog the swing all for yourself...

This is one of the reasons why I appreciate Canadian foreign policy. It is as fair as its domestic policy. Which is more than what one can say about US and UK foreign policy:

``Earlier, speaking at the press conference Canadian Deputy Prime Minister John Manley said that Canada supported implementation of the UN Security Council resolution which called for holding plebiscite in Kashmir.

``Canada did support the resolution and still it does,`` Mr Manley said and added that Canada historically supported UN resolutions and participated in the peace-keeping operations in different parts of the world.`` (Dawn, Pakistan)

Asif #401 Several months I advised you that your posts were not that of a muslim, or a human being for that matter. I see nothing has changed since then, and you remain the rascal that you were an year ago. How dare you come back on chowk, dig out a post several hundred posts deep, to start your garbage.

re: pullu # 397

And, pray, what will be the objective of this war, other than getting our near and dear ones hurt? How will it help India in the long run?

No transit for Indian wheat for Afghanistan

By Asim Yasin

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has decided that it will not extend transit facility for Indian wheat being supplied to Afghanistan under the World Food Programme (WFP).

``We have decided not to allow the transit Indian wheat through Pakistan due to reports that it was infested with germs and diseases which can harm Pakistani wheat,`` said Federal Minister for Food, Agriculture and Livestock Khair Muhammad Junejo during a joint press conference addressed by Commerce Minister Abdul Razak Dawood and Privatisation Minister Altaf M Saleem.

END PEACE

tHE INDIAN EMBICILES are still saluting the musheraff.