Ha Ha To the Axis of Evil Speech

Ref Urstruly #: 50

[Asif # 35

You are absolutely correct. Even Huntigton has written in his thesis that Democracy in Islamic countries favours Islamists.]

Reduced to stark simplicity, it is Jinnah versus Allah. Whether the thrilla is held in Manila or elsewhere, we know that this time the gorilla is gonna win. The crowd is going, ``Allah, bumiye! Allah, bumiye!``

re: bong dongs

{{ Geological potential (if it exists) is very different than proven reserves. }}

...which is very different from productive capacity, which takes into account prices and cost of developing the reserve...

This is how a Pakistani mind works

Children of Kashmir and Palestine

We have read with pain and anguish the appeal by Ms Mariane Pearl, (Feb 16) for the release of her husband. The people of Pakistan, one and all, sympathize with her and pray or her and the longevity of her husband. She has appealed for the sake of her unborn son, as she is six months pregnant now. Our hearts go out to her.

At the same time, the Muslims all over the world shed silent tears over the fate of hundreds and thousands of unborn children in Kashmir and Palestine. Their expectant mothers live in horror waiting for the return of their husbands who in most cases do not return.

While we pray for the father of the unborn child Deniel Junior, we would suggest to his mother to use her influence with the members of the fourth estate to pressurize the world powers to feel and act for those children also who die in the streets of Palestine and Kashmir and the youths who are being killed by the bullets of Israel and India.

Terrorism is a detestable act and must be condemned. But people in Kashmir and Palestine are not terrorists, they are freedom-fighters and they must be treated and revered as such. If justice can be brought to the door of East Timorians, it can also be brought to the doors of Kashmiris and Palestinians.

We hope that Mrs Pearl will also move to put her weight on the side of children born and unborn in Kashmir and Palestine.

ALI ASHRAF KHAN

Karachi

http://www.dawn.com/2002/02/21/letted.htm

The real Axis of Evil

China, Pakistan, North Korea

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/21/international/asia/21MISS.html

bong_dongs # 55

...what`s up with the figures for the central asian states?...

Bong Dongs, Romair

I take your point on potential and reseves - lets see what will happen. Perhaps in the future the cost of very deep drilling or other imperatives may be such the Arabian sea will become a more attractive proposition.

A site you both may enjoy is www.turkmenistannews.net

It will give you insight into why Iran has made it into the ``axis of evil`` - and exactly Mr. Musharraf is referring to when he sites Pakistan`s geostrategic location.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

ADDRESSED TO ALL#

Did the author ever mention the word `Islam`

in the entire Article. Didn`t he mention Iraq is

a ``PLURAL`` society. offcourse that doesn`t

mean Naqashbandi Saab should stop entertaining

us!

hobbyty

Geological potential (if it exists) is very different than proven reserves. If you are interested you may check the NELP2 data.

The biggest enemy of Islam is “militant Islam” itself, as practiced and preached by the mainstream jahil ullema and mullah-backed-politicians of our times. This heavily politicized, fanatic, inhumane version of Islam is the driving force behind the turmoil and divisions within the Muslim world. Muslims are kidding themselves by blaming their problems on Christian or Jewish conspiracies or evil designs of the western nations.

While there probably exist designs by western nations to gain an upper hand on the “Muslim nations”, for economic, ideological, and political reasons, these issues are a distant second. The main issues are lack of unity, mullahsim, and corruption within the “Muslim nations”.

Unless Muslim nations sort out this mess first and truly strive to serving the mankind, no change in their condition can be brought about … they will forever be stuck in the bottom of the social order across the world and will continue to be a nuisance.

The devil is within … and not somewhere out there.

Asad

Bong Dong, Ali1 - Asif Naqshbandi

Dong

Let time show if I am wrong about the reserves under the Arabian sea - if you are interested you may want to investigate the activities of a certain oil company that is headquartered in bermuda and whose chairman also served as chariman of Oman Oil company and you may also want to investigate that a former President of India, while in office was a strong salesman for the proposal of this company.

Dear Mr. Naqshbandi

I wish to be understood by you and in that vein, I offer you my point of view, for consideration:

If a quam is Islami or Islamic - can it exist in a secular polity? it is like as if one will lose one`s faith if surrounded by the faithless? if one does his one`s faith, can it said that one was ever ``faithful``?

If a quam is truly ``faithful``, it governance cannot but be marked by that faithfulness. One cannot force others or coerse anyone into ``faithfulness`` - only by the love of God and one`s understanding of Love for God can one strengthen one`s faith - Muslims greater challenge to be ``faithful`` - not politically powerful or dominant. Where we are a majority, if we are truly ``faithful``, where we are ``just`` towards one another, will it not be reflected in the way we govern ourselves and others? Are not Tolerance of others, acceptance of others, of differeing sects and religions, Islamic? No, I don`t say that what they offer is the ``truth`` - just as what they offer is not ``truth`` to us, what we offer may not be ``truth`` to them. Similarly, where we are ``unfaithful``, ``unjust`` towards one another, will it not reflect in how we govern ourselves?. Mohammed Iqbal Lahori, Allahmah, said clearly the values of pluralism and tolerance, of the temporal and the eternal are the essence of Islam:

``Islam demands loyalty to God, not to thrones...`` Political islam therefore is a temporary phenomenon, to deal with temporary crisis - not a system of governance.

``The ultimate spiritual basis of all life, as concieved by Islam is eternal and reveals itself in VARIETY and CHANGE (my note: Temporal and plural). A society based on such a conception of REALITY must reconcile, in it`s life, the categories of PERMANENCE and CHANGE (my note: Eternal and Temporal).

Perhaps what is mean by the ``secularizing`` mission of religions is the call to a religiosity, a faithfulness, even under circumstances surrounded by disbelief and faithlessness. What greater sign of deliverance, of salvation, that is God`s love, His Mercy, His compassion, His forgiveness, for his creature.

Romair,

If by `secular` fanatics, you mean me, then sadly I must say, you haven`t read a word of what I have said. I think I have defined secularism much differently from your equation of secularism with

immorality and bigotry.. and what is more I showed you exactly how that is the meaning webster`s dictionary takes.

Sadly people like you won`t stop taking shots at me, when we should be the allies. You and I want the same thing... but we have different names for it.

YLH

I urge you, please do not take the kind of language you have used against Mr. Naqshbandi to be a substitute for argument. Not only those who value you but those who wish to discuss with you as grown men, will be put off by such language. Imagine, women on Chowk, what must they think by the use of such language. We are of course free, but restraint is a mark of our character. Please reconsider.

Asif #54 ``So the sooner we Muslims return to the teachings and practise of Islam as exemplified by the Sacred Shariah the better it will be for us. ``

So there we have it. You now conveniently drop even a mention of the Quran, and the words of the men you worship have replaced the words of God. You worship Caliphs, the true muslim worships only God. Your antiQuranic views having been exposed by your own posts as pointed out by me on the other board.

You will spend your life of hypocrisy railing against the West after having lined up for a visa to enter the UK. Others of your kind will spend their lives hunted by the law in this world. The rest of the world, people of all faiths including Islam, will do things for which God created man, as the Quran tells us. You and your kind will one day answer for the evil and mischief you seek to spread in this world, and that day it will be too late for you.

Asif Naqshbandi: Your logic is somewhat misplaced. It is as misplaced as the logic of some of the secular fanatics I have been interacting with recently. Both of you seem to want to equate goodness and righteousness with concepts, which in and of themselves have nothing to do with goodness and righteousness. In your case, it is Shariah. And it the case of the secularatics, it is secularism.

Shariah is not a necessity for Pakistan. I, for one, hope it never gets implmented in Pakistan. I would certainly oppose it tooth and nail. The day Shariah is imposed in Pakistan, is the day the death of Pakistan will start. Similarly, the day forced secularism in imposed in Pakistan, is the day the death of Pakistan will start. Take a look at Muslim societies of Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt, Algeria, Iran (under Shah and Khomeini) to get good examples of societies which are in extreme social conflicts due to the implementations of Shariah or forced secularism.

I am not quite sure what kind of leadership will result in being the social, ``saviors`` of Pakistan. But I am quite sure what kind of leaderships will result in the social destruction of Pakistan: the Ataturks and the Amir-ul-Momineens. They are nothing but a sign of Pakistani inferiority complexes. So lets keep Turkey and Saudi out of Pakistan, and out of the future of Pakistan. Both these groups have always been at the fringes of the Pakistani society, and need to be kept there, where they can remain busy fighting each other, and away from the Pakistani society. They have their own misconstrued definitions of democracy, equality etc., and for some reason assume everyone should follow it.

Neither theocracy nor secularism, in my opinion, will work in Pakistan. That is why Jinnah, who had his hand on the pulse of Pakistan, in my opinion, stated that Pakistan should not be a theocratic state (i.e. not a state with unelected guys with long beards and little wordly knowledge telling everyone what to do). That is also why, in my opinion, he never stated that Pakistan should be a secular state either (i.e. not a state with Turks telling overwhelmingly poor uneducated people, with whom they have nothing in common, the virtues of moving religion completely out of their public life, just because that works well in Paris and Chicago).

The majority of the people of Pakistan do not want either. And if our secularitics and Shariahitics would stop apeing the west and middle east, and do some original thinking, they would realize that theocracy and secularism are not the only two options left in the world. These are infact the two extremes, which may work in certain countries, but have been failiures in other countries (Shariah specifically will not work anywhere, until the Muslims have high education rate, and indulge in some serious ijtehad; Shariah needs to be put on the backburner, until that day arrives).

Pakistanis want something in between. For some strange reason, our secularitics point to the lack of success of the religious parties, and automatically assume that Pakistanis want secularism. And for some strange reason, the Shariahatics look at the popularity of Islam in Pakistan, and assume that Pakistanis want Shariah.

If Prophet Muhammad could come down and implement his understanding of Shariah in Pakistan, I would follow it. Otherwise, every Muslim has a different interpretation of Shariah. Should we follow your version, my version, or the version of some of our secularatic colleagues? Whichever version is followed, there will be a lot of angry Muslims opposing it. Anytime a fixed non-changeable (or extremely difficult to change, without force) set of rules (like Shariah) is implemented in a society, it locks the society into a time trap, since the interpretations of those rules is done by a specific group of people (without any input from the whole society, since the society itself is divided over an exact definition of Shariah) Also, the ulema interpreters are not elected, but selected. Why should I allow Qazi Hussein or someone in Al-Aqsa to decide how I should practice my religion? Are the ulema better or more knowledgeable Muslims than I am? Will they be willing to follow my interpretation of Shariah?

As far as the rest of the Muslim world is concerned, it is about time Pakistanis got out of our Ummah thought process. The Ummah gives two hoots about Pakistan. The Indian Army (many times larger than any Army any other Muslim country is facing) is parked a hundred meters from the Pakistani border, and the Ummah has done nothing. So lets leave the Ummah out, and just think about Pakistan. If the Ummah wants Shariah or secularism, good for them. As our favorite Muhajir Commando stated, ``Pakistan comes first, everything else is secondary.``

Reply # 55 bong_dongs

[hobbyty,

``The largest reserves of gas are not in CA or ME, but under the Arabian sea ``]

Like I stated earlier, the largest gas reserves are in the bellies of 1 billion Indians, once they have eaten their aaloo gobhi for breakfast, chanay ki daal for lunch and gobhi aaloo for dinner.