Taboo: The Hidden Culture of a Red Light Area (Review)

RE Saminashah

Handled with class and poise. Must have to do with the upbringing and family values instilled in you. :)

Of the mad mullah, the less said the better. What a mealy-mouthed and unsincere apology.

Reply Soysauce # 56

“Define prostitution.”

Prostitution is an explicit transaction which involves one person giving the other some sort of sexual gratification in exchange for material gain, with said transaction not receiving the sanction of social legitimacy at least in part because it does not imply any sort of exclusivity or permanence (beyond the period of a finite, and usually short term, contractual understanding).

“Does the promise of prolonged material benefits for regular, predictable episodes of sex count as prostitution?”

IMO No. What you are thinking about would be concubinage. (Or by a particularly cynical definition, which I do not agree with, marriage.) Concubinage does imply exclusivity, and is generally not defined as lasting a specific time when commenced.

“Is it prostitution only when the emotional part is missing?”

No. Emotion has nothing to do with it (may be there, may not be there, it’s irrelevant).

“Are one-night stands prostitution even tho no money may have changed hands?”

Prostitution is defined as the explicit exchange of sexual gratification for material gain. If material gain doesn’t come into it, it isn’t prostitution. Material gain is not necessarily limited to money. A one night stand with no material gain involved is not prostitution.

Reply Tahmed # 52

I definitely appreciate your sawab ka kaam on this board. We are in awe of you, Sir! Keep up the good work, and please correct me when I stray from the path of righteousness.

Live and let live guys. Urstruly is a street thug educated in a madrassah. Everybody knows that.

Tahmed, the defender of women has wormed himself into the good books of Saminashah.

Urstruly has apologized though he doesnt mean it.

Let us move on.

Urstruly,

Your apology is accepted and will actually mean something if, in the future, you try to understand the viewpoints of female and male interactors who have differing perspectives in a genuine and meaningful manner.

Prostitution obviously exploits those who can find no other means to earn a living. A civilized, decent society would discourage such an activity by providing support, shelter, financial help, and education to those in need.

This is a tall order, and to my knowledge no society has been successful at fully eliminating prostitution. However, this is an ideal worth pursuing … since serving the mankind is perhaps the highest forms of worship. It eliminates prostitution by eliminating the misery and poverty that leads one to it.

The question remains … how should a society treat those who are still stuck in prostitution? Hopefully their number is dwindling … but they exist nevertheless. Treating them as outcasts only adds to their misery and perpetuates the cycle of exploitation. Accepting prostitutes as humans deserving respect, support, and care will be the first step towards solving the problem. I read Saminashah’s comment in this context and found myself largely in agreement with her.

Our Urstruly Sahib, forever trigger-happy when it comes to bashing those he disagrees with (never mind his own fanaticism), reacted as expected … in an obnoxious manner, misunderstanding the context, and forcing his own interpretation without caring much for clarification. Then he acts all indignant and hurt as if he is full of sympathy and compassion for the human beings … whereas in reality he has no problem condemning to death those who insult his scripture or prophet. What hypocrisy …

As for me, I concur with hamidm Sahib and would rather be with prostitutes, pimps, and drug pushers … than be in the company of mullahs all too keen on declaring others as heretics, issuing death sentence in the name of jihad, and inciting a mob to violence (from behind the mob, of course). There is a good chance that a lot many of them will eventually be reunited … in Dante’s 9th circle of hell.

Asad

dang, why is this twisted mullah from detroit allowed to get away with sexual harrassment on chowk...i don`t think the worst of us unruly posters on chowk comes close to this terrorist-wannabe...

#49 Zafar

Define prostitution.

Does the promise of prolonged material benefits for regular, predictable episodes of sex count as prostitution? Is it prostitution only when the emotional part is missing? Are one-night stands prostitution even tho no money may have changed hands?

Saminashah

I appologize for the callous remark I made to you in #16. Although I had explained the reason for that remark in the next post, yet it is the ugliest thing to be said to a lady. I hope you will find it in your heart to forgive me if I have hurt your feelings.

Soundmeister #40 While your post attempts to draw some balance, and while I do not wish to sound like a do-gooder defending helpless women, I nevertheless must point out something that you seem to overlook when you say that by calling for better treatment of prostitutes by society (which is what saminashah was doing) an individual considers that to be a profession he or she would take up. The fallacy behind such thinking is easily disproven by the following example I gave to urstruly: one can argue for the proper treatment of street sweepers in Pakistan without aspiring to become one.

If a man then moves on from this fallacy to use it to make suggestive and lewd remarks designed to humiliate the female poster, as urstruly did, then such behavior would be unacceptable. On a discussion forum, unless there is any sign of repentence or apology, that person would be kicked out.

Are we really that incapable of drawing the line between acceptable and unacceptable conduct on chowk?

Zafar #49 Moving back to the subject of this article (thanks!!), prostitution is of course to be found everywhere. Is it good for anyone? I dont think so, since it basically reduces the life of an individual to the level of meat that is available to anyone willing to pay for a few minutes of pleasure. It is nevertheless a reality, and a result of some kind of distress: I think 99.9 % prostitutes of the world are running away from something - poverty in poor countries, broken homes in rich countries. In Pakistan there is no question: prostitution is an extreme form of the intimidation and harassment of women, and less extreme forms having been already demonstrated quite ably on this board by (OK, I wont get into that again). I wont solve this problem in this post, but thought I would send this to help you put the discussion (or whats left of it) back on track.

The day I will be able to make a mockery of the belief system of 1.2 billion people of this planet, chowk would be much bigger than AOL and MSN combined.

It might have hurt the feelings of 100-500 chowk followers but not as effectively as terms like idol worshippers, corrupted holy books followers, kafirs, dehriyas and murtids - from thousands of pulpits, speeches, articles, books and media.

I poked fun at the life of heaven occupants based on current scientific understanding, as eye-for-an-eye response to counter a sickening response to saminashah.

I wish my voice can be heard by 1.212 (the number has gone up for the fastest growing religion since I started typing this post) people through chowk.com.

Hey guys, don`t worry about me...I`ve been initiated into the world of the fundo mind, and you all should know that to be female and express an thought or an idea that challenges the fundo mindset means every kind of irrational, tangential and meanspirited foolishness. Whatever.

Urstruly,

While you get your thrills at the zoo, I get my kicks from literature. Particularly the text Animal Farm in which George Orwell satirically points out that, of course, all humans are equal, but SOME humans are more equal than others. I`m not explaining it to you Urs; steam that little vegetable dumpling of a brain and figure it out. And after you think you know what that quote means, please report back to us. We`ll tell you if you`ve got it right.

re: sex workers

I don`t think that sex work is necessarily a profession that its practitioners enter for the perks, benefits and glory. Its probably because most sex workers are forced by economic desperation. In those cases, does a humane society further marginalise these citizens by stigmatising them, denying them the acknowledgement of labor enacted, deny them benefits, health insurance (and Dettol is not medical care), medical care, safe environments, unionizing options, etc.? If society A, which does not condone sex work for whatever reasons, chooses to insure equal access to the kinds of privilleges other workers have, and access to other job options and society B chooses instead to condemn, punish, and marginalise sex workers, which is the more humane society, in action and in deed? Who does it benefit to stigmatise sex workers? By ``ideal society`` I mean not the best possible society, but one that protects its citizens. In any case, it is NOT may place to speak for all women, all men, all seamstresses, ambassadors, etc. You haven`t learned that Urst, have you

Urstruly: also, you write ``SameerJB has made a mockery of the belief system of 1.2 billion people of this planet. I didnt see you giving him a lecture on his upbringing and his character. ``

Sameer was not sexually harassing anyone the way you were. There is a difference of night and day, or legal vs. illegal, of moral or amoral vs. immoral, between holding different viewpoints, or even mocking other people`s viewpoints, on the one hand and sexual harassment on the other. And stop pretending to be a spokesman for 1.2 billion muslims and start concerning yourself with your own immoral conduct that you have demonstrated on this board.

Urstruly: And one more thing - try apologizing to the chowk poster concerned and others on this board for the sexual harassment of that poster. And then try to control your impulse for similar behavior in future. You can reject this advice or take it, it doesnt matter to me. But it might put you on the road to becoming a human being.

urstruly #44 you write ``tahmad321 I am sorry to say that, but you ARE mean, stupid and senile. `` also ``baywaqoof`` and ``gahda`` early on, and perhaps I missed one or two. I would normally be amused by such words directed at me. I would also be amused at your new set of justifications (``the title says ``taboo`` and so you now claim that you can sexually harass a female interactor on chowk - are you in control of your senses??). But in your case, having witnessed the way in which you have sexually harassed a female interactor on chowk (and the posts are there as testimony to this harassment), nothing you say can be amusing. And having exposed earlier on the fake nature of the veneer of moral outrage beneath which which you harassed the poster, you are a clear fake. Any properly moderated discussion group would have thrown you out a long time ago.