Taboo: The Hidden Culture of a Red Light Area (Review)

Finally its the Nang-e-Insanyat activists who go into those ghettos and treat those women as human beings, the great self-appointed moral custodians of the world would not stoop to that low no. How many religious leaders do you see going out and rehabilitating prostitutes and providing them things like health care?

god who created the universe, life on one of the planet of a star of a galaxy, could have easily controlled the human sexual behavior by females being receptive only during heat, as is the case in most animals. He could have limit the number of partners to one as monogamy, he could have offered no houris or maybe one for men ending up in heaven in afterlife. He is the one who offered 72 houris in heaven to each. Such is the ``rational thinking``, god and sending his prophets. Given the amount of knowledge in current era, watching a program about monkeys on TLC or reading am amtique book in arabic language can not make a person knowledgeable about all out there.

Different species of monkeys have different sexual behavior. Urstruly did not notice the behavior of rhesus monkeys having sex all the time with both male and female having multiple partners without regard to relationships among them. An evolutionary outcome of such behavior is disproportionally large size of male testicles. Now apply this rationally to the occupants of heaven each with 72 houris, having sex with at least ten between each prayers. Given the eternity of life (no time limit) imagine the sizze of testicles of Maudoodi, mullah Omar, Khomeini, Mufti Saeed, mulla Azhar and all those in heaven - dragging their testicles, with difficulty to walk and basically immoveable life style. Kama sutra will come handy for these over-sized testicle males in heaven. A couch potato life.

Prostitution results from supply and demand. If there is no demand, for example everybody (male) with fatal attraction to die in jehad will dry up the supply. As long as the supply and demand principle is valid, the supply and suppliers will and should look for better deals through organization, labor laws, better working conditions etc etc.

Reply Urstruly #23:

``These Nang-e-Insanyat women rights activists have absolutely no qualms suggesting to other people what they don’t like for themselves. SAMINASHAH supports prostitution rights of women in an ``ideal society`` but as long as it is not she herself and her daughter or sister (see #19 & #18).``

## So what ur suggesting is that in order for me to tolerate prostitution or even accept it as a NECESSARY societal evil, I have to be a whore myself?

If I`m pro-capital punishment, does that mean you will only accept my views if I have personally flicked a switch or turned on the gas of someone condemned to death? If I say I support euthanasia, will you insist that I pop a few neighborhood oldies before my opinion gathers worth?

There are moral arguments and then there are practical (secular, if you will) arguments. The real world strives for a balance.

Name-calling and rabid ranting is doing nobody any good. Maybe you need to ask yourself whether what you asked Saminashah was the ``moral`` thing to do..... ask yourself how YOU would have felt if someone called your wife/sister/mother a ``whore`` because she expressed sympathy for one.... then things can get on an even keel here.

Think about it.

re: srashid # 27

You are right. In that damn state of mine, UP, most folks consider singing/dancing to be infra dig. It wasn`t until I travelled out of UP, to Bengal, to southern Indian states that I realized how marvellous, how valued, and how highly developed musical/dance traditions can be. When I saw music/dance so seemlessly woven in the fabric of ordinary life, particularly in south, I was simply amazed.

A lot of this association of dance/music/art with prostitution is cultural, and I`m guessing strongest in north india.

I knew a bangladeshi family one member of whom hails from delhi (the grandmother) who was endlessly annoyed with her daughter-in-law`s family because they`d teach their girls (and even guys)to sing and get into the arts and poetry and somesuch...not realising these were perfectly normal things among bengalis, but marks of ``low character`` where she came from...said daughter in law was forbidden from playing the sitar et al until much later in life.

tahmed 321 # 21 . . . boss, will I also get easy credit and good extra special treatment? I really enjoy these offers, I get so excited, are they also valid in Canada?

Urstruly

You have not accounted for the fact that the people who want for example legitimacy for ``sex workers`` (notice the ``worker`` part - they even rob the the ``profession`` of emotion, not just morality) - Sir, these people are Marxists, they are also ``Liberals``, therefore like to describe themselves as ``progressive`` - You may not have believed the threat that Pakistani Marxist pose to Open human society - but the attitudes that the so called ``educated`` (only in marxist thought) should be instructive - God forbid if they should ever be in a position to influence open societies.

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A TALE OF THREE MONKEYS

Let me clear one thing before I start this post, that this post is definitely not about the monkeys I usually spite and write about but this post is about the monkeys that I saw on a documentary at the TLC (the learning channel). This documentary captured the social life of the primates, specifically that of monkeys and chimpanzees etc. It was absolutely breathtaking to see their social structure and how it resembles that of humans. A monkey is a social animal that lives in small groups/communities. On one hand if we see one-to-one male-female family, we also see the excesses of the dominant males over the females. The rape of female monkeys and child monkeys by dominant males was also common. But what I (and the narrator) found most astonishing was the sexual favors that were extended to dominant males by some of the females; for food and protection etc. Unlike shreef females these particular females in the group exhibited certain ``skills of the trade`` to entice dominant monkeys. In other words these particular female monkeys were using sex (or their bodies) as a currency. And interesting thing is that these ``promiscuous`` females along with the dominant males are treated as social outcastes by other females and non-dominant males; (the dominant males however still controlled the group with their aggressive behavior). Talk about the morality of monkeys. Astonishing, isn`t it?

But what really knocked the Bejesus out of me was to see that some (an acute minority) male monkeys were also offering sexual favors to the dominant males in return for food and protection etc. Astonishing, isn`t it?

Another common trait among all primates of this category (monkeys etc) is that, at times they get really violent. They are territorial, they kill each other with in a group and keep a strict family structure with in the group.

In the next episode they showed a unique specie among the monkeys whose life-style actually knocked the bejesus out of the narrator. This particular type of monkeys is found in Madagascar. What makes this kind of monkeys so special is the fact that they are (according to the narrator) the most peaceful bunch on the globe. They just simply walk away from the trouble, share food, and since they are the only kind of monkeys on the island they were not territorial; AND all the members of this group-male or female-were bisexual. Astonishing, isn`t it.

It is fairly easy for those who are reading this post to draw conclusions from these two groups of monkeys and apply it to the human social structure.

Even if we do not think that we are Darwinian descendents of primates, we can still see that the primitive cave man had certain advantages over his female counterparts; the body strength; the physical restrictions on females due to child bearing and rearing and resulting dependence on men for food, shelter, and defense; the monthly downtime etc. So I think it is actually the physical traits of the women that put the men in a dominant position in the first human societies. The sexual derive of both sexes may or may not be the same. But most definitely how this sexual drive was used, was different. Whereas males used it to satisfy their lust, the females used it or attached to it a factor of safety, protection, and food etc. Thus were created the two oldest institutions in the world-the family and the prostitution.

So when God started sending Prophets and man started thinking rationally he found that the family structure should be the preferred lifestyle because it guaranteed survival and continuation through procreation. On the other hand prostitution remained in use to satisfy lust (on part of males) and to ensure survival (on part of females).

But wait this post does not end here; like I said it is a tale of three monkeys and I told you the tale of two. You see, in the last paragraph I wrote ``….when God started sending Prophets and man started thinking rationally….``. The sentence has two parts ``God`s Prophets`` and ``rational thinking``. The question is that are these two notions mutually exclusive? The question also arises whether we can live without morality or not. Now suppose we subtract the Divinity from the equation and rely solely on the ``rational thinking`` then don’t we come up with what West has come to and what SAMINASHAH has written in her post……she writes …….``However, in an ideal society, why isn`t this field of work treated as a legitimate profession? Now I know that there are people who can`t think past the ``toba toba sharam ki baath hai`` aspect, but lets not delude ourselves: 1. there is obviously a demand for sex workers because they exist, I assume, in every country and not just the Shaitani West. 2. Shouldn`t sex workers be treated as workers in any legitimate field, with incomes, benefits, protection, regulation, and irrationally stigmatised?`` End Quote.

So in conclusion when we sideline the morality given to us by Divinity we are confined to draw our morality with observation and ``rational thinking``. So we observe monkeys and we draw morality from them. So the monkey becomes the beacon of light. But what people don’t understand is that by mimicking monkeys we can only become monkeys and not better than them.

And, ladies and gentlemen, what SAMINASHAH has written in her post #8, is not something that may be called as SAMINASHAH`s views. It is the agenda of Western and Westernized Women Right Activists. They are trying hard to establish prostitution as a basic human (woman) right in the Charter of Human Rights of United Nations. And another part of their agenda is to include the crass practices like homosexuality in the Charter as well. For reference please use your browser and see the proceedings of Women 2000-Beijing, United Nation`s Conference on women and other related conferences. Once these social evils are entered into the Charter of Human Rights no Nation in this world will be able to enact laws preventing prostitution and homosexuality.

What disgusts me the most is the hypocrisy and double standards of these phuphies, and chachas and mamas of the Women`s Rights. These Nang-e-Insanyat women rights activists have absolutely no qualms suggesting to other people what they don’t like for themselves. SAMINASHAH supports prostitution rights of women in an ``ideal society`` but as long as it is not she herself and her daughter or sister (see #19 & #18). Women like her support homosexuality right of people but as long as it is not her son sleeping around town with the uncles. And this is the reason, despite having all the resources in the world, West is unable to uplift its women. Sure women are given rights but she is also made to dance naked on the tables and sell herself to feed herself. What kind of people are you? Are you people or are you monkeys. And I protest, and I refuse to be a monkey like you. I respect other human beings and I would never suggest anything to my fellow human being, which I do not like for myself. I refuse to be a monkey.

And SAMINASHAH I hope now you understand the point I was trying to make in my # 16. I wish you had quivered and convulsed with same degree of anger, after reading my inquiry, while you were suggesting the same for the daughters, sisters, and wives of others. The ideal society is not where men and women are commodities or the links in the supply and demand chain, and where woman is the weaker link; and ideal society is not where individuals have price tag on their forehead; and ideal society is not where women are asked of their ``going rate``; the ideal society is where we respect each other, we take care of the weak, where we treat each other as we wanted to be treated by others, where men and women are not commodities but human beings. An ideal society is where men take care of women not because they are weak but because she takes care of him. What is wrong with that?

veeresh #20 Dont worry about such things. Next time you wish to go to a red light area in Pakistan, just say you are a friend of Urstruly, and they will welcome you like a family friend.

PS Notice I did not mention any shoe here, per your suggestion.

boss tahmed 321 . . . the few times I ``managed`` to go ashore in Karachi in the early `80s I was kind of a bit wary (illegal trips courtesy friendly cops ``maslaa ek hi hai sahib``) . . . so I remember asking this policeman after I had ``presented`` him with a gift on where I could go to sample the wares and he gave me one of those ``tobaa tobaa la something`` speeches . . . so I never got to know.

I just want to know one simple thing, and please leave Mrs. Veeresh`s footwear out of this: are the tarts and kanjars in Pakistan free from religious and nationality bias?

Thank you so much oh guruji . . .

Urstruly,

Also, just this thought: if you are not capable of conducting yourself in an adult like manner to issues like sex workers, please feel free in refraining in this thread. Also, kindly desist in referring to me or any other female interactor in the manner that you have in your last post.

I feel no compulsion in addressing any of your posts from now on.

Urstruly,

Well if you must in living in your fantasy world, by all means let us not intervene...btw, what is YOUR going rate? How many women have you sold your patriarchal lie of a religious interpretation to?

Saminashah #8

Oh I almost missed this one. May I ask, what used to be your going rate. I am just curious as a window shopper. That`s all.

PS veeresh: So you are concerned about whether these ladies of hira mandi have a trade embargo on Indians. I hope Mrs. Veeresh is aware of your concerns and has a shoe of suitable weight to provide the necessary remedy to such concerns.

It is encouraging to see an ``Achhae Gharane ki Larki`` (i.e. the author) taking an interest in the lives of the hira mandi dwellers. I hope the book focuses more on the females than the review indicates - the review is more focused on the kanjars (i.e. pimps). Does the book answer questions like: where do these girls come from? what is the going rate? OK, forget that last question, :-). More seriously: where do these girls come from (i.e. how many of them were sold into sexual slavery by poverty stricken parents, how many are the offspring of mothers following this oldest of professions? how prevalent is HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases among them? I wish the review shed some light on it, and hope at least the book does. If so, I may even buy the book from desistore, if not I`ll just let hamidm and urstruly enjoy one anothers company on this board.