Delhi University Politics

excellent article..hope that we can hear more from you about those days..

Stuka,
I was present when Rajiv Goawami died, I also broke few scooters.
Know this fact: He poured Kerosine over himself with the understanding that his friends would save him in few seconds.
His friends were BehnC@#Ds they left him to die. Everybody who was there would know this.

BTW, did you goto Venkatawara or Deshbandhu?

[Between fear and political correctness, it`s not possible to say anything other than sugary nonsense about Islam,`` said one scholar at an American university who asked not to be named, referring to the threatened violence.]

They threaten violence even in countries without Muslim majorities. We are doomed to be most backward individuals.

#105

[Now that you have figured out Islam is not the Mukammal and Behtareen deen No need to berate Islam. It is the faith of millions in Pakistan. Any such attempt would be counter-productive. Imbibe the best out of its teaching and leave the rest. Use those teachings to further the aims of equality, fraternity and social justice.]

That attitude tells why nothing ever changes in Muslim majority countries. We never dare question fundamentals. It is always ``don`t berate. It would be counter-productive.``

anNy,

You should use your new found enlightenment to a noble end. People like Sameer and others have fled the country. You should become the harbinger of change... change Pakistan.. make it retake the course of Moderation and tolerance... make it a liberal secular Democracy with equal rights for all.

Now that you have figured out Islam is not the Mukammal and Behtareen deen No need to berate Islam. It is the faith of millions in Pakistan. Any such attempt would be counter-productive. Imbibe the best out of its teaching and leave the rest. Use those teachings to further the aims of equality, fraternity and social justice.

I hope to see you as a soldier in the fight for the heart and soul of Pakistan, and not a coward hiding in the suburbs of New York.

Long Live Pakistan

More Fertile Imagination of the South Asian:

``Dude, whatever your deal is, at least accept it. I could care less that you think I`m self righteous, or wear pink saris or listen to Zakir Hussein, or whatever. Your tirade is unattractive, tangential, inaccurate and I don`t have the patience that Dost Mittar obviously has in guiding you along.``

1) Where have I objected to your wearing of Pink Saris? I could care less if you wear a Pink Sari (once upon a time my mother`s favorite dress of choice) or listen to Zakir Husain, a tabla player of rather mediocre quality. I listen to Indian Music, does that mean I am a south asianist?

2) My deal is that whereas the expats of India take every opportunity to berate Pakistan and elevate India, you the Pakistani Ex pats who should, if not berate India, elevate Pakistan are either too busy with your Goody goody `South Asian` nonsense or are too involved in the Islamic Preaching. What about Pakistan?

3) What in my tirade is `inaccurate`. I think my tirade is all together too true and too late. The train has already left. Tonight there is South Asian Unity show in Rutgers, the same South Asian Unity Show I had made a point to include Pakistani Students Association in... but the shameless bigotry of your `South Asian counterparts` from India continues... The only three nations represented in SAUS are Pakistan India and Bangladesh. The 4 smaller nations are no where to be seen. This again gives credence to my theory the whole `South Asian Unity` is another name for `let us undo partition nonsense.

I will make it clear one more time. Pakistan is part of South Asia and I am proud to be a South Asian but not the South Asian Indians want us to be. South Asia to Indians means India... South Asia that I belong to has 7 sovereign distinct nations and several cultures! Therefore if they are going to insist on a 3 Nation Indian South Asia... I will only resist such nonsense. You, Samina Shah, are the pawn in the Indian design. They marginalize our brightest minds in the name of South Asia and Humanism, while continuing to bash Pakistan elsewhere. The INDIAN conception of South Asia is a grand conspiracy against Pakistan.

Long Live Pakistan

temporal: yaar yeh kya mazaq hey. Neither apology asked nor accepted from you - Never. I owe you and Bilal Ahmed a great deal of my growing up at chowk. If anybody, I should actually apologize to you here.

What I should have written in my previous post was actually, ``Angst has been lurking from most of the posts because they are written with win-lose game strategy in mind`` and not, ``nobody complains angst lurking when thousands of posts have been attempts to defeat the opponents....``.

My calling Islam inferior is also like a daisy cutter in my arsenal. I use it only against outright vulgar and nonsense attacks. Other than that it means little beyond my own life and mind. Looking another way, how could I deny myself being a Muslim while considering Islam, the best religion. This would be paradoxical or hypocritical.

I have no doubt that our understanding and mutual respect transcends such minor difference of opinions.

Regards,

Sameer

Saminashah: I agree with you on most issues. It is a great pleasure having a person with higher intellect level and such a clear conscience with powerful reason. Please keep sharing and passing on your knowledge and wisdom to all who are willing to improve their level of understanding. Thanks a lot.

Regards,

Sameer

AnNy: I have already used up my reservoir of apology and thanks leaving nothing for you. Just kidding! You have connected well with diverse people here and this is an asset. It is neither necessary nor important to agree with anything you read here or elsewhere. The point is that you do not reject out of hand and neither sarcastic in disagreeing. It means that it does get to your mind as additional information and then you let your mind decide the weightage or importance of it. Stay focused, prudent and open minded.

Regards,

Sameer

Ylh

re: ``Now coming to this topic of Jinnah/Gandhi debates. I find it rather hypocritical of the self righteous twits like Sameena Shah and Mr.JB not to mention that I never have taken up Gandhi debates, nor have I sought to malign that old`s man`s legacy until I am left with no choice. It is the Indians who make the comparison, Indian who berate the memory of Jinnah and then they expect me to sit around and not show the otherside of the picture. So go to Sulekha.com or whereever... but the fact is no amount of nonsense spouted by you two will stop me from asserting my pride in my nation and its founder both of whom are great and will always be great. Is it a crime to be proud of what you are? So much for the freedom of thought and expression these bigots preach in the first place.``

1. Do explain how we are bigots in commenting that the Jinnah/Gandhi debates have been ongoing since the last two years?

2. Who has prevented you from ``asserting your pride``? Esp. when you yourself have commented on my south asian self definition in a rather one dimensional way?

3. Dude, whatever your deal is, at least accept it. I could care less that you think I`m self righteous, or wear pink saris or listen to Zakir Hussein, or whatever. Your tirade is unattractive, tangential, inaccurate and I don`t have the patience that Dost Mittar obviously has in guiding you along.

For JB the defeatist:

``ISLAMABAD, March 7: President Gen Pervez Musharraf launched here on Thursday a National Policy for Development and Empowerment of Women and promised that womenfolk will ultimately be offered 50 per cent representation in the national and provincial assemblies.

``In the immediate context, it is perhaps difficult for us to concede to the request of the women to offer them 50 per cent seats in the assemblies but ultimately they will have it,`` he added. ``

Difference between you and Mush?

You only talk the talk... he walks the walk.

PS and while others will try to drink out of the Brahmin`s cup, the Brahmin will never drink out of that cup again.

Dulla Bhatti

``Punjabism may not be very close to humanism but so is not Pakistani nationalim, Ataturkism, Mahan Bharatism or any other ism. We all fall short of that ideal. Unfortunately you think that your idealism is some how better and has divine sanction than other peoples`.``

I have not laid any claim to humanism unlike Sameerjb or the Punjabi conference on this board.. I have no time to mince my words and write unfathomable allegories, and I have no respect for flowery language that conceals lack of substance. My words are very clear. Everyone knows where I stand... hence I am not a hypocrite.

I can care less for Humanism, whilst I am laying claim to narrower identities. I care for Pakistani Nationalism, and I do believe the kind of Pakistani nationalism I am advocating can lead to peace in the World eventually, so humanism may just be a useful by product. But I don`t have time for emotional goody goody nonsense. I think one has just about had enough of the humanists... I find the self rightousness of humanists on these boards to be too choking. In essence they too are bigots.

I can care less about Islam, but the fact is that it is the faith of my parents and it is part of my identity whether I like it or not. Sameerjb says spiritually, ritualistically and dogmatically Islam is inferior to other faiths, and I thank God for that fact. Islam in my opinion was a major milestone enroute to rationality which should be the ultimate faith of any society and any culture. Indeed, Islam is the lesser of superstitions... thank God for that. It only means that as Muslims we really are closer to rationalism than other faiths. Let us call spade a spade... I only called Punjabis what they are. I have been more critical of Muslims.

Now coming to this topic of Jinnah/Gandhi debates. I find it rather hypocritical of the self righteous twits like Sameena Shah and Mr.JB not to mention that I never have taken up Gandhi debates, nor have I sought to malign that old`s man`s legacy until I am left with no choice. It is the Indians who make the comparison, Indian who berate the memory of Jinnah and then they expect me to sit around and not show the otherside of the picture. So go to Sulekha.com or whereever... but the fact is no amount of nonsense spouted by you two will stop me from asserting my pride in my nation and its founder both of whom are great and will always be great. Is it a crime to be proud of what you are? So much for the freedom of thought and expression these bigots preach in the first place.



Morality, Humanity, humanism, progress, etc are all undefined abstracts. What is not abstract is the misuse of these words by people like Sameerjb.

Clearly they are using these words to get their `Uloo seedha`. They are selfish people. It is an uphill battle, but somebody has to wage it.. somebody has to defeat the jamaatis creeping up in Pakistan`s society.. someone has to stem the tide of religious bigotry that has masqueraded as Islamic doctrine? But we see these twits running to sanctuary in their new homes in the west. I ask you, are we Pakistanis the step children of God that we should not be saved by our own?

Pakistan was meant to be an egalitarian libertarian progressive state, and it shall be one with or without these twits. Only while they will whine in the west in a failed attempt to sound intellectual, and drink water out of the same mug as the Brahmin, we will unleash great new energies and great new forces... Pakistanis will be able to tell their oppressors to go to hell. While these twits will sip their cofees and point fingers at us from afar and revel in their fake intellectualism, we will build Pakistan as the harbinger of progress and equality for ages.. whilst these twits and cowards will say `Oh jamaatis have taken over Pakistan` ...we will help drive a dagger through the heart of the Jamaati Monster. I shall not be one of the nuts and bolts of the machinery, we shall create new machinery in Pakistan.

So what is Humanity? Humanity is a procession of nations, and the leader in this procession carries the torch of civilization. Humanity can never be one and indivisible. Humanity is not a homogenous collective. To deny our diversity is to crush humanity itself. Undoubtedly humanity will achieve Unity in diversity one day, but we (the Pakistanis) will be the leaders of that diversity.

There are no divine sanctions for this... it is human endeavor, glory and ambition which fuels my belief that my idealism is better than your idealism.

Long Live Pakistan.

I think it should be abundantly clear to everyone now that the problem with East Pakistan going its separate way was NOT Islam or religion but pure and simple Punjabi Ethnic bigotry.

The need to be accepted is so great that it clouts the judgement of the seemingly sane individuals.

Sameerjb, I can assure you that you will not be missed. Thankyou very much for leaving Pakistan.

One day we will drive out the remnants of Punjabi bigotry that has caused the dismemberment of Pakistan in the past and threatens its future.

Long Live Pakistan!

Saminashah

``The Jinnah-Gandhi/Muslim-Hindu saga has left many of us going to Sulekha in crazed desperation...toba toba..``

you cant get away from it on sulekah also. The only safe places nowadays are the food sites. Have been spending time on recipesource.com (well partly due to an idle comment - a home isnt a home till you turn on the oven - but htat is another story). The apples-in-rosepetals sounds great and doable. Indians in my opinion arent risktakers and it shows in their cooking - i mena there is more to it than curry powder - nutmeg, basil leaves, cocoa - possibilities are endless.

chotu, pankaj, soya..thanks for the responses..i `am` trying to not let my parents or other personalities around influence me and questioning things slowly but i am..am in rush abhi...thanks for your reponses..really..

zafar saab, mae aap ko ignore karee hoon..goodbye

sameersaab, im delighted u like me more! i like u very much myself!!:) i would write a detailed reponse..god knows there is much to say about the subject under scrutiny but im very sick right now..throwing up like a sick turkey..also sorry i didnt respond on the other board where u asked bout the conference..lemme tell quick now..its students from all over thr world getting together to talk about why things are this bad, what can be done and why is there such a gap between the west and the muslim world...we plan to go a little beyond the jewish conspiracies and stupid nonthinking muslim bit i think..it should be fun..ppl (students, theatre ppl, journalists) coming down from gaza, ramallah, nigeria, egypt, iran, baagla, britain etc...75 ppl from 10 countries of the world..myself from karachi, one person each from isloo, lahore and peshawar make up the pakistani troupe..i leave for islamabad in 5 hours (and really should be packing) and england tonight..bbc is covering the event so if u see me waving to u on t.v, wave riiight back:)...pls pray all goes well and i dont die throwing up in the plane

t,

i think some of sameersaabs anger comes from the stance of the other...what do u do when the other chap is just not willing to listen? reasoning tau kya the other view point is not supposed to exist only...and in the case of somebody being stupid enought to do so, khayaal rakhiyae warna tayaar rahiyae :) u remeber those studnets u filmed at the islamic studies centre? how they were just NOT thinking and talking like robots? and how the teacher as we walked out told me in a very snide and somewhat threatening manner that aakhir islaam sab sae behtareen aur mukammal deen hae aur jo iss kae against bolae ga ussae qanoon bhi daikhae ga aur khuda bhi...and i smiled and nodded knowing she was refering to my little speech on the blasphemy law? u remember how upset u also got in the middle of the discussion? those ppl dont think..theyre like sheeps..and to have been one of them and then realizing one fine day must be one sad memory for him..ask me..heck, u KNOW.

semi:

theyve cracked down on mqm at KU, jaamtiislaami is still going very strong

sac:

i wrote u a long post yesterday telling you that farhat hashmi started off from karachi only (ooopsy daisy) and al-huda has the strongest follwing in khi and that saying things like pyt`s will get u in trouble and that i dont wear rainbow colored anythings but cant find the damned post..bottom line was, someone needs to spank u real bad

kisses everyone! pls pray all goes well and miss me lots!

re: spout

{if a potential criminal or ``lost soul`` finds solace in religion and spirituality and develops a direction in life, what`s the harm in it?}

...what is the harm in it? look around the world with open eyes and count the number of deaths that have resulted from religious violence...that`s the HARM in it...

{some people find peace in meditation, some in praying five times a day, some in going to the local mandir for pooja, some in devouring Godiva chocolates. what makes one different than the other? }

i`ve never heard of a group of Godiva chocolate fanatics go around killing people or becoming a civil nuisance....but i have heard of religious nuts do both....that is the difference...

{as long as the religion is kept to oneself and not forced upon others, it can do good.}

and how often does that happen? hardly ever...even in the US, we have to hear Bush open his trap and declare ``God Bless America`` ... what utter nonsense ... HE was elected to run and bless America ... if a nuclear attack is imminent, i don`t want this moron sitting around with his bible praying for jesus to tell him what to do ... i want him to use his brain to make the decision on how to respond ...

{just like you shouldn`t let religion blind you, you shouldn`t let your anti-religious stand blind you. both extremes are dumb and dangerous. }

my anti-religious stand is dumb only b.c. too many people lack the education and thinking ability to know right from wrong...hence if you take away their religion, they might degenerate into cave-dwelling barbarians...but the solution to that is to educate them, not feed them goo about prophets and fantastic creatures and heaven and hell...