Delhi University Politics

Sameersaab

you were lucky in being able to run off to the u.s as you turned non muslim...iv just now started doubting all iv been reading, saying praying and doing these last 20 years and have no place to talk about the doubts i feel..i know if i tell my ppl not to sacrafice all those poor goats because its unfair and just not nice ill be treated to a little lecture on abraham and ismail and if i persist, everyone will be terribly upset...insisting that the muslims world was as messed as it was because of no reason but their own idiocies caused so many brows furoing in the house, its downright scary..breaking out of conditioning is not easy sameersaab but after that, questioning all the conditioning is even more sad..because absolutely almost everything one has learnt all along is a lot of (i dont know the word here..farce?) once you strip away the sacredness and religiosness (if thats a word)

you say youre from an ultra conservative family, so am i...ultra ultra conservative...u think it is a result of excessive faith that does this? its strange because just as soon a si started thinkng at 13, 14 i took to my parents ways with a vengeance..namaz, roza, sawaab, mustahib, haraam- the whole nine yards...or is it a result of my age? a few more friends are going through the same doubts..a lot of things are making no sense..almost all of us are in our late teens or then early 20`s..everuone is very happy with where we are, what we have and know what we want to do but this basic thing, our faith is causing anxiety..especially myself since im this smartass who took to islam with great force a few years ago, insisting nobody around me drink, wear besharam clothes and started carrying a dupatta on my head because it appeared the right thing to do...got carried away with the niceness, symbolism of it all..now im stuck..what difference does it make if my best friend chooses to get a beer while i sip coke if he isnt harming anyone? whats wrong with my friends wearing clothes that bare her arms and shows little cleavage if she feels comfy that way?.if she`s too tired at the end of a 12 hour day working upon one sculpture after the other and wants to sleep and misses namaaz, why will she go to hell? its not fair...WHY explain to me is music haraam..what bad can enjoying oneself and being transported to another world (nasha if u will)do if im not harming anybody? you have no idea how difficult it is even typing out this stuff...ill probably go to hell for this..is it because of something else?

i wnat to know why only some of us are experiencing this...backgrounds? that couldnt be because we come from varied places...also, a lot of those around us from same backgrounds are not bothered..same age bracket..why are we plagued with all this when a great many are not bothered? can u pls try explaining keeping in mind your nonmuslimness..i would really appreciate an answer

also sameersaab..your brothers in jamamatiness threatened me just today, less than 2 hours back..`khayaal rakhiyae warna phir tayaar rahiyae`..excuse me pls, if i have the sh!t beat out of them

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Saxxy thing

(....i guess i always go to the wrong universities, take the wrong classes, join the wrong firms, and get the wrong seat on airplanes...because invariably there are only mean, nerdy girls everywhere i go...)

Maybe its just you babe

Stuka

This was well written and funny by turn. Boston is the Hub of the Universe? Strange that, lived there for 2 years and didn`t know.

Dear Yasser . . . did your Pakistani Nationalist character get totally submerged by, say, exposure and involvement with the USofA? Or at chowk.com? Why do you even think that Indians or others (on this website or elswhere) wish to consume your Nationalism?

Please, if you don`t mind, grant everybody atleast as much intelligence as you.

regards/Veeresh

ps: You & I and just a very few of the others use our real names here . . . isn`t that a beginning?

RSaxena # 49

[....i guess i always go to the wrong universities, take the wrong classes, join the wrong firms, and get the wrong seat on airplanes...because invariably there are only mean, nerdy girls everywhere i go...]

Hey Don Juan ! what happened to all the scandinavian blonds and the Venezulan beauties

who are always stalking you or was that all

your fertile imagination ;)

Don`t be upset.Someday the train WILL be late ;)

Take care.

re: banjaara

{{Hey Don Juan ! what happened to all the scandinavian blonds and the Venezulan beauties

who are always stalking you or was that all

your fertile imagination ;)}}

a) get a sense of humor

b) don`t mix up cause and effect

re: binifer

{Maybe its just you babe}

perhaps...or maybe i keep runing into your friends..

btw, ali2 had a message for you on the other board...i dare not repeat it, lest it `prove` to you that i`m really ali2

re: anNy #51

...welcome to the atheists club, where there are no silly rituals and where prophets, supreme beings, hell, and heaven are left where they belong - in the comic books...

Shashi Tharoor took a lot of innuendo that he got from his amazingly excellent Maloo connections in Delhi, wrote a few funny books which never really made him too famous and now hobnobs with the high & mighty everywhere.

And to think that he, too, was unable to find the time-table in First Year.

Speeds, was that you?

anNy

``if she`s too tired at the end of a 12 hour day working upon one sculpture after the other and wants to sleep and misses namaaz, why will she go to hell? its not fair...WHY explain to me is music haraam..what bad can enjoying oneself and being transported to another world (nasha if u will)do if im not harming anybody? you have no idea how difficult it is even typing out this stuff...ill probably go to hell for this..is it because of something else?

``

You are asking yourself the right questions and one day you will find the answers yourself. Basically, there are two aspects of any religion: 1. an emphasis on a universal set of human values and

2. rituals, conventions, observances associated with it which are often a function of the culture and environment a religion was founded.

The first aspect is philosophical emphasizing morality in human life, and generally holds for all times. The second aspect is strongly time and situation dependent and subject to the influence of environmental variables on original conception of a religion. First aspect is usually common to most of the religions since almost all religions glorify honesty, truth etc. The differences between the religions are with regard to second aspect which is a cultural variable. Thus Hinduism glorifies the rivers Ganges and Indus since it evolved on the banks of these rivers while Islamic books carry with them an unmistakable impression of mores and traditions of a desert civilization. While a limit of four wives, no rate of interest etc may have been progressive and beneficial in a traditional Arab society of seventh century, their utility in modern times is questionable, at best. Similar points can be made about Hinduism and any other religion. Thus I favor rligion only till it inculcates moral values in you like honesty, truthfullness etc. but I disregard any attempt by religion to control my personal and public life that has little bearing on morality.

In my own code of morality, an act is immoral only if it hurts the interest of others and seriously interferes with their exercise of fundamental rights. Thus drinking in private and sleeping over it is not immoral, but drinking followed by beating your wife is. Similarly it is none of the people`s business to object on what you wear as it doesn`t hurt them or violates their rights.

anNy

``if she`s too tired at the end of a 12 hour day working upon one sculpture after the other and wants to sleep and misses namaaz, why will she go to hell? its not fair...WHY explain to me is music haraam..what bad can enjoying oneself and being transported to another world (nasha if u will)do if im not harming anybody? you have no idea how difficult it is even typing out this stuff...ill probably go to hell for this..is it because of something else?

``

You are asking yourself the right questions and one day you will find the answers yourself. Basically, there are two aspects of any religion: 1. an emphasis on a universal set of human values and

2. rituals, conventions, observances associated with it which are often a function of the culture and environment a religion was founded.

The first aspect is philosophical emphasizing morality in human life, and generally holds for all times. The second aspect is strongly time and situation dependent and subject to the influence of environmental variables on original conception of a religion. First aspect is usually common to most of the religions since almost all religions glorify honesty, truth etc. The differences between the religions are with regard to second aspect which is a cultural variable. Thus Hinduism glorifies the rivers Ganges and Indus since it evolved on the banks of these rivers while Islamic books carry with them an unmistakable impression of mores and traditions of a desert civilization. While a limit of four wives, no rate of interest etc may have been progressive and beneficial in a traditional Arab society of seventh century, their utility in modern times is questionable, at best. Similar points can be made about Hinduism and any other religion. Thus I favor rligion only till it inculcates moral values in you like honesty, truthfullness etc. but I disregard any attempt by religion to control my personal and public life that has little bearing on morality.

In my own code of morality, an act is immoral only if it hurts the interest of others and seriously interferes with their exercise of fundamental rights. Thus drinking in private and sleeping over it is not immoral, but drinking followed by beating your wife is. Similarly it is none of the other people`s business to object on what you wear as it doesn`t hurt them or violates their rights.

Stuka,

Precisely!

Bong Dongs,

You words are Very reminiscent of what the CIA told a certain fella by the name of Kemal in the immediate aftermath of the first world war.

Rsaxena,

Don`t give atheists a bad name by associating your sorry ass with them. You know you are a fundamentalist Hindu Bigot and thats about it.

anNy,

There are problems with every faith. I know that most of my friends and myself are mostly `cultural` muslims so to speak. Whatever divinity there is in it, and I am certainly not an atheist, Islam in of itself was ideology that Muhammad used to motivate the Arab people into creating their own destiny and becoming one of the most successful empires of Medieval times.

In any event having doubts is never a bad thing. Infact Iqbal maintains that to get to `Illa` you have to go through `La`. Ofcourse much like you I still am stuck in illa ... not so much as a higher power... but as in the religion itself.

SameerJB:

What a marvellous post. At least you have the excuse of coming from a conservative family, and your religion meant something to you.

In my case, I come from a liberal background and religion was there but not in abundance. I was communal through and through. My own religion did not mean much to me. But the feeling of my community being under siege which was fed by a lot of propaganda, created a feeling of immense hatred in me. Honestly, I have to be very careful even now, because I know the beast is within me. It was not individual Muslims that I hated. In fact the few I know I genuinely liked. It was the faceless Muslim, the traitor, the pillager, that image which scared me, and made it easier to hate.

It`s almost funny. I was an upper caste Hindu, kinda like the WASPs here, and yet I had this feeling of being the victim. The persecuted one. For me coming to America was a blessing. The diversity of people I have met, and the rewards of keeping a somewhat open mind, have really enriched my experience.

But I am very aware of one thing. It is easy to fall in this trap of blame and hate. I am still quite aware of my weaknesses in putting things in black and white. As I see it, awareness is half the battle one. The other half is a much longer slower process.

Binifer: You lived in Boston? Where?

The city has always been known as the ``Hub`` which is short for Hub of the Universe. An ode to Boston :

Hail the City of Boston

The City of Brahmins and Scrod

Where the Cabots talk only to the Lowells

And the Lowells talk only to God.:)

Ylh:

You seem to be in a minority of one. So I think your viewpoint can be safely ignored.

re: pankaj

{{Thus I favor rligion only till it inculcates moral values in you like honesty, truthfullness etc.}}

....you need religion to tell you not to shoot someone in the head? not to steal? or cause harm to people who have caused you no harm?...isn`t that just common sense?...if you are an educated person living in a civilized society, you don`t even have to know whether it is `right` or `wrong` as long as you understand that it will hurt you to hurth others...