The Panel of Vendettas at UC Berkley

Let me be clear about something : I do not appreciate people like Rsaxena bringing up my lineage. I want to make an appeal once again to all chowkies to leave my family out of this.

1) My mention of my `Lineage` 2 years ago was in context of a discussion of how Muslims in South Asia claim to have heritage from Arabia and Turkey. I had merely mentioned that I was the only in my high school in Pakistan with such a claim. Everyone in my high school had local rajput and jat surnames.

2) The pathetic attempt by Rsaxena including the one under his alias `ali2` to detrack the discussion should be condemned by all chowkies.

3) I am not Sameerjb. I will not deny the truth just to please the Indians. Like I said, I could care less if I was the descendant of Muhammad, or the descendant of an untouchable Hindu. My education, my training, my faith and my family have taught me to respect humanity regardless of lineages.. but does that mean I should deny the facts? The debate on lineages is stupid ... but by the same token it is a fact that Middle Eastern especially classical Islamic scholarship was obsessed family Lineages to trace the accuracy of the transmission of Islamic Law. So if I have said something like that, it is because its a fact and not because I am unnecessarily proud of my relation to a man who claimed to receive divine revelation rightly or wrongly.



Sameerjb,

How shamelessly without self-respect are you? Can you explain when and how and what Islamic dietary laws are the part of the ideology of Pakistan? Were we not created by a pork eating whisky drinking lawyer who dined more often with Hindus, parsis and christians than muslims? On the other hand is not Gandhiji`s collective works full of exhortations against `intercommunal dining`? Is it not known of the Brahmins that even their food had to be cooked by orthodox hindus?

Pakistan was NOT supposed to have an ideology. It was an alternative solution. How can a people fighting the fear of exclusivity than turn around and embrace the exclusivity? The fact is that Pakistan was an inevitable fact not some ideology, and that fact has been made abundantly clear by the recent events in Gujarat!

-YLH

Rsaxena,

You have indeed been true to your Indian creed .. by misquoting a post of another board, for topic that you unnecessarily started. You know why you have the psychological urge to assassinate my character like this: Because you and your Indian buddies know you can`t beat me at facts.

My original post that was twisted by this sad and stupid fool is for all to see:

http://www.chowk.com/bin/showr.cgi?f=rsiddiqui_feb2202&n=00#reply289

1) I didn`t bring this topic up.

2) I could care less.

3) I will not deny something true to sound `intellectual` and `acceptable` to the Indians.

4) Traditions of Shajra nasb and oral traditions are rather well known and authenticated in the middle eastern tradition.

Grow up Rsaxena. The way you pathetically try to derail every possible discussion is not only sad but shows how evil and thoroughly bigoted you Indians are...

Defeatist Par excellence: Sameerjb!

Your self defeating babble is just the kind of nonsense we needed on this board. God save Pakistan from people like you.

With that said, even someone like you with views like yours should have an opportunity make a fool of himself in Pakistan. So I will fight for your right to be foolish as much as you want.

RE 57

Here is what the CSM has to say about you.



Commentary The Monitor`s View

from the March 04, 2002 edition

Hindu-Muslim Violence

Hindu zealots are on the verge of fanning a religious civil war against India`s 130 million Muslims. The world`s largest democracy can hardly afford it.









The last time Hindu militants unleashed violence against Muslims was in 1992, when they tore down a mosque in Ayodhya to make way for a temple to the Hindu god Ram. Over 2,000 people were killed then. The attacks of last week, however, occurred while the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) holds power. See story.)

The party`s weak response to the killings - more than 500 so far - should awaken Indians to the danger of letting ardent advocates of one religion claim any authority over secular government.

Muslim-Hindu clashes, of course, are nothing new to India. The 1947 partition of the subcontinent into India and two Muslim states led to immense violence, later wars, and now a nuclear standoff between Pakistan and India.

But this latest violence, centered in the state of Gujarat, provides a warning that India`s democracy still needs strong defenders against the nativist tendencies of the dominant religion. India need only look to Iran to see how a nation`s progress can be held back by letting religious radicals rule.

Fortunately, democracy itself has a way of reducing communal tensions. Muslims have found respected places in India`s government and other centers of power, while the BJP itself has been backpedaling on its pro-Hindu stance in order just to stay in power. Voters are demanding faster economic progress. Hindu-Muslim violence only weakens the nation`s ability to win foreign investment.

How well the BJP stands up to Hindu radicals in coming days will set India`s course for the near future.

roohi.

When I talked about Pakistanis having an aim of peace, the idea was to explain why it is inevitable that we ask questions over the sincerity of Indians. Nothing glorious about that, and feel free to be harsh.

And just as a side note, itni mirchey que lagti hain about Kargil? Haven`t you the courage to hear about the Indian plots. I suggest you read, ``The muslims of India`` I forgot the author, it has rather interesting details and research of the Mukhti Bahini etc.

Arjun,

Also if we gave China what runs in our blood, what`s it to you, at least we didn`t drink Kashmiri Blood like your army does.

Aisha F Sarwari

inna lillah e wa inna elaih e raje-oon


http://www.dawn.com/weekly/ayaz/ayaz.htm

Arjun,

2 out of 3 people have an unfavorable opinion of pakiland.

2 out of 3 people also have a favourable opinion about India.``

Is this from the same research that says 2 out of 3 dentists use Crest? Gosh you are insecure.

Aisha

Sarwari #43

On one hand I can`t help but appreciate your passion but on the other hand I do think that your approach is negetive. The point I was trying to make was that this world would be a better place if we had less of Goebles. And this is only possible when governments are more open and more transparent; there is rule of law at all levels; and the interests and rights of the populace have precedence over all ``national`` or ``militaristic`` intersts. In order to do that we need to clean our closets first. There should not be any compromises as far as rights of individulas vs. state are concerned. That is the only way when we wont be afraid and annoyed of anyone`s harmful and false propaganda. We cannot change everyone else, but we can change ourselves. And why should we have to follow Indian example. The hindu canabalism and carnage that they are wreaking upon Muslim minority is not cause, it is the effect of years of anti-Muslim hate being spewed by their government and intelligentia against, Muslims, Islam, and Paksitan, examples of which you see everyday at Chowk, door darshan, and ztv news.

Paksitan is ten times better off if we dont have dishonest people like Khalid Ahmad and his ilk. These people are pygmies who are short in their own eyes. One can still stand tall, no matter how short, if he beleives in himself. Beleif in self comes with honesty. Honesty teaches you to know the things that you can change and those you can`t and beleif in self gives you the serenity to know the differnce. Please re-read Romairs post addresed to you, in this regard.

There is one advantage when one lives away from his country-i.e. you dont have to take sides. So you can only side with the best of what is right. You can be as objective as you can be. I hope Romair can also understand this point.

``Before the context of the talk, may I explain that peace is a glorious aim that Pakistanis have.``

Good God ! Excuse you !!! Never mind the skewed panel - what about you - being selective, are we not, in looking at problems and their roots objectively on the subcontinent ? To quote you ``Where is impartiality?``

Good luck with that ``Glorious Aim`` though - if you are reading the mind of 140 million people correctly - though how any Indian can trust Mushyrat I do not know - he has blood on his hands with that ``bagal meiN choori`` Kargil farce ....

BTW kaha suna maaf kareiN - I am not usually so harsh - but you hit a nerve

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Hey Prem reply 37,

While I suppose many Indians and Pakistanis on Chowk like pointing the finger on the morality of our respective states and societies -- your inference that Sheikh Omar is not being extradited to America becuase he is a being supported by the Pak government is quite incorrect.

(Yes in the past he was (ISI) but the tide has changed.)

On the contrary Pakistan has behaved very much like its big neighbour India would.

Firstly from a legal perspective Pakistan has no extradition treaty with the US. Pakistan would like to act like a democracy sometimes and we have our own rules and laws that will hopefully put Sheikh Omar away.

Secondly the backlash effect of the fundos in Pakistan on sending Omar to America would probably have severe violent repercussions in the region.

Thirdly your snide comment of arresting people in their houses has no effect -- once again denounces the democratic principles that India stands so strongly for. (In Pakistan for a military dictatorship to still act democratically and within the confines of the law is a big step)

I would love to be a fascist and put away any mullah with a beard who talks of jihad and fighting america the satan away -- but that in the long run deters democracy when you have no credible proof or a case against the suspects.

Hence a house arrest without proof -- though against the law and against the tenets of democracy is a means of keeping the troublemakers off the street without prosecuting them on some false charges.

I don`t understand why Indians are so anti-pakistan in the light of Mushrraf`s new vision. While not neccessarily giving up on Kashmir, he has come a long away and is fighting terrorism at home and abroad.

For the progress of our people let our generations come together for peace.

We can start by stopping verbal attacks on each other and limiting it to constructive dialogue.

Last time I check India and Pakistan were both in the coalition against terrorism.

Check this link out. The Pakis did squat as the Americans have now realized. (That didn`t stop Mushy from coming to Washington with a begging bowl in hand)

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0304/p01s03-wosc.html

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