Subcontinental Chain Reaction

fairdinkum #60

No one can quarrel with your formulation. This is probably the only time in my life I will be

agreeing with Urstruly.

I am not gloating.

Indian problems may or may not be solved, usually by Indians. In some cases, we may look for outside help from suitable entities. We shall bumble along. We never said we are perfect. And yes, we have a fairly self-correcting Constitution.

Pakistan is not a suitable entity for help in or to India or Indians by a long shot.

Especially Pakistan is not a suitable entity for the protection of Muslims anywhere by a very long shot. Would you like me to spell it out? Bangladeshi Muslims, Afghan Muslims, Ahmediya Muslims, Sindhi Muslims, Shia in Sunni area Muslims, Sunni in Shia area Muslims, Leftist Muslims, democratic Muslims, freespeech Muslims, non-Armed Forces Muslims, educated Muslims, women Muslims, poor Hari Muslims, church going Muslims, liquor drinking Muslims, . . . all these and more types of Muslims are at risk in Pakistan, all the time, as we all know. So after deducting all the Muslims mentioned above, we are left with what? A few who say ``hear hear`` like they are in some debating baba-log society?

OK, so say ``hear hear``. Or even ``haw-haw``.

On the specific issue of Gujarat, what do you know? Evidence from American newspapers? Same American media which is the biggest Satan and liar when it comes to 9/11 or other matters, but is gospel when it comes to India?

Sure, ``hear hear``. Bit difficult when your ears and eyes are shut and all you can think of is Hindoos in your sleepless paranoia.

Incidentally, the Brigade Commander for the area in Gujarat is a Muslim, but in our country, it does not matter. I do not expect most of you to ever understand that.

re: urstooly

penis gods are bad, but bending over to pray 5 times a day with some guy`s behind in your face (while another guy sniffs your behind) is OK?

Urstruly #58:

Once a sicko, always a sicko ? (you)

Chowkies,

Forgive me for using this board for this event, but I didn`t know where else to post it. Hope to see some NYC Chowkies at this event:

Happy International Working Woman`s Day

Saturday, March 16 7:00 - 10:00 pm

The Brecht Forum & the Women of Resistance in Brooklyn present Roses & Bread: 7th Annual Open Poetry & Performance Event

An International Women`s Day Tribute to Arab & Muslim Women and Benefit for RAWA, the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan

Featuring: Nawal El Saadawi, Suheir Hammad and others TBA

We have just received word that Egyptian psychiatrist and writer Nawal Al Saadawi will be joining us at our 7th International Women`s Day

celebration. Saadawi is best known in the West for her novels, such as ``Women at Point Zero`` and ``God Dies By the Nile``. She writes against ancient customs oppressing Arab women, including her very personal account of the pain of female circumcision. In her words: ``We are living in a class patriarchal system, based on class and male

domination. This system breeds religious fundamentalism, paradoxes,injustices, and violence.``

Suheir Hammad is a Palestinian-American poet and activist whose incendiary and lyrical verse ranges topics of police brutality, the

prison industrial complex, political prisoners, imperialism and the struggle for a free Palestine.

Join us for an evening of electric and intergenerational poetry,prose,politics and music as we celebrate International Women`s Day and

honor the inspirational and revolutionary work of the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan.

RSaxena

``what about religions that came about from men who married 9-year-olds?

``

Actually I was originally planning to comment about ... as a counterattack to Urstruly. But then it would have hurt a lot of devout Muslims here. So I gave up the idea. I dont like insulting anyone`s religion but this guy Urstruly is truly crossing his limits.

PS A correction to your post: Marriage was with 6 year old, it was ``consummated`` with the 9 year old.

It seems that the unhealed wounds of Partition are still deep.

Bina #34,

wah wah, do it again

Sure Shahji, I am interested, miss your interacts already. Tell us something about that Nazim and Ghaas ki JarroN wali (Grass-root) democarcy thing. How is the first hand experience in the flesh-remember we had an elaborate discussion on several of Bilal`s boards?

Urstruly,

Thank you! Hope all is well with you. It has been a long time since we last spoke to each other...living and working in Pakistan hasn`t been easy for me....but i have not given up yet!

Ok, so... what we are saying is that there is more to a civilized, democratic society than merely having a secular constitution and democratic form of government...and if you are interested, i would like to take this discussion further.

Kind regards,

Shahji (if that is what u like to call me :))

Shahji # 60

Welcome, khush aayo.

very well said. Amen to every word. Especially the last paragraph which should be applicable to Paksitan as well. Unless we do that we are just a society of clothed primates.

Dear Chowkies,

I have been reading the discussion on this board with interest. Here are my two cents on this matter.

We all know that India boasts about her secular constitution, and her democratic credentials relentlessly, and unashamedly. What we also know is that she rarely acts like a civilized, democratic nation – especially towards her minorities and the weak. This is indeed a strange phenomenon. Why would a nation which has successfully protected, and sustained a secular constitution and a democratic form of government for more than half the century, act just like another third world dictatorship towards her minorities and the weak? You might disagree with my view, but I have come to the conclusion that India’s socio-political structure is in conflict with itself. India may have a secular constitution, and democratic form of government, but Indian society is, essentially, uncivilized, non-secular, and undemocratic in nature – just like any third world society. So, what I am saying is that, in essence, more than 50 years of sustained democracy and secularism has not made any impact on the way Indian society perceives itself.

What is currently happening in India is indeed gross violation of human rights. Genocide of Muslims in Gujrat (and elsewhere in Indian) flies in the face of “India’s secular constitution” and “Indian Democracy.” As Prime Minister Vajpaye himself puts it “communal riots of Gujrat have irreparably damaged India’s reputation in the international community.”

In any civilized, democratic nation, minister responsible for internal security would have resigned after what has happened in Gujrat. Mr. Advani has not only exhibited gross incompetence in handling the Gujrat affair, he has been negligent in performing his duties as the interior minister of India. But despite the horrendous events of Gujrat, he is still there. Many allege that he gave a wink and a nod to the murderers as he performed his pooja in one of the “Ram Mandirs” in New Delhi. What is revolting is that he is backed by none other than the self professed statesman of India - the wishy-washy Prime Minister Vajpaye.

In my view, unless economic benefits associated with an open, secular, and democratic society are evenly and (more importantly) “justly” shared by the society i.e. unless secularism, and democracy results in a socially just society, it is highly unlikely that the society will evolve, progress, prosper, and eventually starts perceiving itself as a civilized, secular, and democratic society.

Dear Chowkies,

I have been reading the discussion on this board with interest. Here are my two cents on this matter.

We all know that India boasts about her secular constitution, and her democratic credentials relentlessly, and unashamedly. What we also know is that she rarely acts like a civilized, democratic nation – especially towards her minorities and the weak. This is indeed a strange phenomenon. Why would a nation which has successfully protected, and sustained a secular constitution and a democratic form of government for more than half the century, act just like another third world dictatorship towards her minorities and the weak? You might disagree with my view, but I have come to the conclusion that India’s socio-political structure is in conflict with itself. India may have a secular constitution, and democratic form of government, but Indian society is, essentially, uncivilized, non-secular, and undemocratic in nature – just like any third world society. So, what I am saying is that, in essence, more than 50 years of sustained democracy and secularism has not made any impact on the way Indian society perceives itself.

What is currently happening in India is indeed gross violation of human rights. Genocide of Muslims in Gujrat (and elsewhere in Indian) flies in the face of “India’s secular constitution” and “Indian Democracy.” As Prime Minister Vajpaye himself puts it “communal riots of Gujrat have irreparably damaged India’s reputation in the international community.”

In any civilized, democratic nation, minister responsible for internal security would have resigned after what has happened in Gujrat. Mr. Advani has not only exhibited gross incompetence in handling the Gujrat affair, he has been negligent in performing his duties as the interior minister of India. But despite the horrendous events of Gujrat, he is still there. Many allege that he gave a wink and a nod to the murderers as he performed his pooja in one of the “Ram Mandirs” in New Delhi. What is revolting is that he is backed by none other than the self professed statesman of India - the wishy-washy Prime Minister Vajpaye.

In my view, unless economic benefits associated with an open, secular, and democratic society are evenly and (more importantly) “justly” shared by the society i.e. unless secularism, and democracy results in a socially just society, it is highly unlikely that the society will evolve, progress, prosper, and eventually starts perceiving itself as a civilized, secular, and democratic society.

rsridhar

``Our religious leaders for a long time have not been welcome in Politics.``

What the guck is BJP, VHP, RSS; they are ruling parties. I think you need a peg of gao mutra everyday, in the morning, to help improve your concentration and eyesight.

RSaxena

Still better than the religion of Penis God, who had a child for every sperm he spewed; An estimated 360 million children? I think that was how ancient hindus invented zero i.e. by counting the bounty of Almighty Penis.

``DJ`` Phukan

[... and a possible nuclear

exchange. However that is unlikely to be the case. A more likely scenario is confrontation escalating into a full blown, bloody war that will probably last barely three weeks. At the end of the period Pakistan running out of breathing room would threaten a nuclear strike on India. Intense International pressure (from the onset of hostilities) would force a UN cease-fire with withdrawal to pre hostility positions.]

I`m afraid you don`t understand the basics of Nuclear Doctrines. It`s very easy to talk about nukes, but to talk about facts isn`t easy.

Let me ask you. What are the kiloton yields of the weapons Pakistan tested and India tested ? The answers lead to the nuclear doctrines of both countries.

Rgds

Zeemax

Bina #34 I must say ``hear, hear`` to YOUR post though, since I agree 100% with it.