Whose Iqbal — Ours or Theirs?

Ref Dukhi Ram #: 33

[Once they knew that muslims are going to get only undeveloped ,unindustrialized ,agriculture lands INSTEAD OF DESERVING : 40% stake in mineral coal & steel mills of jamshedpur ,coalfields of Dhanbad, & commerce of Calcutta they happily hastened to put the ``CAP ON JINNAH `` so to say ....]

Jinnah got extremely fertile agricultural land in West Punjab and Sindh watered by the Indus and Jhelum and Chenab. The steel mill in Jamshedpur is owned by The Tatas who are Parsis and who didn`t ask for a separate country. The coal filelds in Bihar belong to those who stayed there, not to those who migrated to East Pakistan. Once the Muslims of East Bengal demanded and were close to getting Pakistan, the Hindus of Bengal voted not to be part of Pakistan and so West Bengal came to India. At least it was the people`s will in the East. There was no such pressure in the West where Punjab continued to not give a majority to teh Muslim League. It was Jinnah`s call for Direct Action Day coupled with Suhrawardy`s thuggery that finally sealed the fate of a united India. No matter what Yasser Latif Hamdani says about Direct Action Day, the fact is on Day One, the Muslim thugs killed innocent Hindus and on Days Two and Three the Hindus retaliated. Yasser continues to show the number of Muslims killed to ``prove`` that Hindus were responsible for the riots. (Just like in the recent Gujarat riots where the number of Muslims killed far exceeds the number of Hindus killed.) Hodson in his book makes it clear that the riots were started by Muslim thugs and that Suhrawardy not only stood by passively but by declaring a holiday allowed a free hand to the Muslim thugs of Calcutta.

Jinnah didn`t need any dunce cap to be put on by Nehru and company. He started wearing it right around August 1947, though until then he was wearing a hat.

Re Zeemax (#30):

Ahmadi-Muslims are those who believe in Mirza Sahib as the Promised Messiah, the Mahdi of the 14th century, and a non-Law bearing prophet of God, as claimed by Mirza Sahib himself. The Lahori Group is an off-shoot of Ahmadi school of thought, with an exception that they do not believe Mirza Sahib to be a prophet of Allah.

My understanding is that the Lahori Group (which originated in Lahore) till one point did believe in prophethood of Mirza Sahib. Later they changed their views and limited Mirza Sahib to the role of a reformer of his time. I once read a book (“The Ahmadiyya Case”) published by the Lahori Jamaat perhaps a few decades ago (more?), where the authors clearly mentioned claims of Mirza Sahib as a non-Law bearing prophet of Allah. The authors devoted a few pages to the root meanings of “nabi”, “rasool”, “khattam” etc., and provided quotes from earlier Islamic scholars to support their contention that the door to non-Law bearing propehthood remains open. I think later, to appease the mainstream Muslims, the Lahori Group withdrew their claims about the prophethood of Mirza Sahib.

Mirza Sahib was from Qadian, India. Ahmadis and Lahori Group members are sometimes called Qadiyyani or Mirzai in a derogatory manner by others.

Ahmadi-Muslims are reviled and hated for the same reasons that followers of every prophet throughout the history of mankind have been abused and persecuted. God Almighty raises prophets to guide people when people go astray and moral decay has set in. Prophets threaten the status quo by raising their voice against corruption, they present the teachings of religion of God in its pristine and pure form, and do away with immoral practices and corruption in the society. Appearance of a prophet is a direct threat to the corrupt clergy of the times and to those in power. It is for these reasons that the clergy has always persecuted the prophets of God and their followers.

Violence, hateful propaganda, and declaration of Ahmadi-Muslims as non-Muslims are various forms of this persecution. It is sad that in the face of deep-rooted corruption, sectarian violence, child-smuggling, prostitution, drug abuse, poverty, robberies, and more, the mullahs in Pakistan have chosen to expend their efforts on passing the Blasphemy Laws, the Anti-Ahmadiyya ordinances, and persecuting the peaceful Ahmadi community and other minorities. Such behavior is a reflection of the true nature and motives of the mullahs themselves.

On the other board (“Subcontinental Chain Reaction”) in reply #150 I explained the meaning and interpretation of the “Khattam-un-Nabiyeen” phrase of Quran, and validated it from the context of the verse in question and other Quranic references. Now, for every hadith where the Prophet (pbuh) reportedly stated that he is the “last” Prophet, there is another hadith where the Prophet (pbuh) clearly indicated that the door to propehthood remains open.

You may find the web-site www.alislam.org helpful. Here, under the “LIBRARY” heading, choose “ARTICLES” … and you’ll find some informative articles.

Asad

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The discussion here seems to have turned towards
a religious minority and on whether it should be a minority.
It is not fair to blame Iqbal for
taking sides in a fine religious mess that has
plagued mainly Punjabi people ever since the Ahmadi sect came into being.

I am from amongst the last people to discuss religion amongst Muslims, especially those who take their passions for religion to the extreme.

But here are my two cents...

1) The Ahmadi beliefs are extremely close to Islam

2) I do not believe that a State should decide
who is a Muslim or not.

3) Whether the Ahmadi`s are Muslims or not may be an issue for some, but they are Pakistanis or are they not? Why should they not have the same rights as any other Pakistani?

4) It is not right to put down the beliefs of others in the manner that is used in a Pakistani
Passport application.

5) If an Ahmadi can die defending Pakistan and his family receives its highest award for courage and gallantry, why can`t he call himself whatever he wants?

6) How do the Ahmadi view the beliefs of mainstream Islam? Are other Muslim believers viewed as Muslims by them?

7) Why can`t we learn from America and allow freedom of all religions?

8) Last but not least, we can barely feed our people, cannot educate them properly, millions
do not have a decent roof over their heads: So
what the heck is so important that we have to spend so much of our energy discussing this issue?

If we have time to kill let us at least try and do something useful.

Ras

Re Sameer JB

Interesting info on Iqbal. What do you think of Naipaul`s scathing analysis of Iqbal in Beyond Belief? Sort of explains his hatred as a way of purging away the hinduness in his blood which he is too ashamed of.

Zeemax: Not being very knowledgeable about Iqbal, I have no opinion either way about the following cut-n-paste from a large article. I have selectively pasted paragraphs related to Iqbal and Ahmedis. I hope you will enjoy reading it.

[His grandfather Sahaj Ram Sapru was an official in Kashmir`s revenue department. He was banished from there on charges of embezzlement, and he took up residence in Sialkot (Punjab). Iqbal`s father, who had accepted Ahmediya faith was called Nathu - on account of his Hindu background. His wife, Imam Bibi was also a follower of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani.]

[Allama`s grandson, Munib Iqbal in the daily Jang, dated 8 May 1996: ``Allama Iqbal`s financial status was not good. He once requested that he be made a judge, so that financial difficulties may come to an end. However, the then Chief Justice Shadi Lal refused to accept him as a judge. If Allama Iqbal had been accepted as a judge at this time, he would have followed another path, and Pakistan would have remained behind.``]

[If the Prophet is the Messenger of God, then can the ``mujaddid`` who renews the message of the Prophet be any less in status than the Prophet ? To attain such a status without even making a claim is nothing short of miraculous. For in this way, there is no need to become the target of the people`s suspicions, or their criticism. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani had confronted Indian Muslims with such a big difficulty, as they could not even have conceived of before. A logical consequence of it was that they maligned him, as no man had been maligned before. Punjabi Muslims had been excited so much that they desperately needed an outlet for their emotions. To gauge this state of affairs was not difficult. After all, Iqbal had not spent years in Europe studying religion and philosophy in vain. Iqbal decided his passport to glory lay in opposition to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. His outlook was completely revolutionized and he turned away from Indian nationalism, and sang the tunes of the Islamic millet. In this bargain, repudiating Ahmadiyat proved very useful. Iqbal`s family background also played an important role.]

[Not only Iqbal`s father -- Sheikh Noor Mohammad -- was connected with the Ahmadiya community at some time, but also his wife Imam Bibi was also a member of that community. His elder brother Sheikh Ata Mohammad was also an Ahmedi, whose son Sheikh Aijaz Ahmed was also attached to this sect. It was on account of this family background that Iqbal arranged for his son Aftab Iqbal to be brought up as an Ahmadi in Qadian for several years. When Iqbal suspected his wife`s fidelity, he requested a fatwa not from Deoband but from Qadian. Not only that, Iqbal accepted Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a great ``religious thinker``, and declared the Ahmedi community to be a ``clear example of the Islamic way``. It has even been claimed that in 1897 Iqbal went to Qadian and became a disciple of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, and remained in this faith till 1934.]

[From Allama Iqbal`s writings it becomes clear that he had a massive ego, which should be called `bekiran khudi` (boundless ego) in his own words. It is another matter that his khudi did not stop him from happily accepting stipend from Nawab of Bhopal. If this theory is kept in mind, it becomes clear that Ghulam Ahmad`s personality did not have the charm to keep Iqbal forever in its grip. After all, his father had also parted ways with Ahmadiyat. That was an example and inspiration for Iqbal. Perhaps the single biggest cause for this was that Iqbal had a mercurial temperament, being a great poet. He found peace in impatience and change. In addition, he had a wide vision, being acquainted with several branches of knowledge. He was not a tortoise who would slavishly follow Ahmadiyat. His character was possessed of the quickness of the hare. He considered himself destined to discharge the duties of leadership, so that he could go whichever way he chose at any rate he pleased. This is why he waited for the right moment for a long time. In 1935 when a debate began with the purpose of declaring Ahmedis as non-Muslims, Iqbal also declared his opposition to Ahmediyat openly. Coincidentally it was the same year when Chaudhary Zafarullah Khan was appointed as a member of the Viceroy Council.]

Sarwari

``There must be some general principle on governance atleast and one of them must be to leave God`s judgement to him/her``

There are not general but very specific principles on ``governance``. As in any religion or beleif system Islam is built on very specific set of beleifs. This set of belief comes from Quran and then it is explained to us by his Prophet. These beleives are not too many, like belief in

- God is one
- End of the world (Qayamat)
- His Messengers and Prophets, some 124K of them
- The three books,(Torah, Injeel, Zaboor) and scriptures.
- The Qurran
- The angels
- The Hell and Paradise
- God is absolute
- The finalty of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

These are the set of belives that you have to beleive without question, and that makes you a Muslim. If you dont belive in them you are not Muslim- it is that simple and that specific. If you beleive in them then everything else starts falling in place. It is not allowed to have belief in some but not in others, e.g. if you beleive that Quran is voice of God, then you have to beleive that there is hell, or there are angels because Quran tells you that.

Quran is the origin of these believes. Think of our Holy Prophet as a teacher. Like any other teacher first he (pbuh) used ro read the ``lesson`` to us from the ``book`` and then he used to explain it to us, which is called his Hadis (tradition). And if you read any book on compilation of Hadis, it will tell you that Prophet (pbuh) himself told compilers what was the text of Quran during his lecture/speech and what part was his Hadis.

Now if someone raises a question that the word Khatam-un-Nabiyeen has more than one meaning (which itself is absolutely wrong according to any Arabic lexicography, grammer, and usage of any time since past 1500 years) then we have not one but several Ahadis to verify that. And these are not weak ahadis; these ahadis are
considered authentic according to each and every school of thought of Muslims in any part of the world and any place.

As Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)himself said very specifically in his last Sermon that there is no messenger after him, and in another hadis he said that the job of the holy messengers has now been given to his nation, and it is upto this nation to convey this message without exception and error to the coming generations, therefore, we are not left with an option to leave this matter on God`s judgement alone, as you suggest. God will have His judgement as well- and He will judge us as well, as to how well we have conveyed His message.

Urstruly,

``I dont think a doubt should remain in anyone`s mind that Islam and Quadianiyat are two different religions``

Don`t you think it`s then just as simple to cook up a case against the unislamicness of Suniism? or any other sect for that matter? There must be some general principle on governance atleast and one of them must be to leave God`s judgement to him/her and that will, if noting else, create less deaths since to majority of this world religion is significant because we are born into it. Average people don`t take the time and develop the courage to changing thier ``original system software``. And Average people aren`t so prone to resisting propaganda against the ``rightness`` of one religion over another.

If you take religious superiority of Islam over truth or regional peace, then you will the supiriority of Sunism (or whatever) over that of Islam and then `your way` of unique interpretation over the sect.

Besides making a distinstion between sects is the same as taking God`s Authority and abusing it. Worse than the original crime I think. Its like deiciding on earth about what happens after death and that too not a judgement about yourself but about another. Not very educated in my opinion.

However we have all come to conclusions about the negative aspects of a sect, don`t you think that there is a Utilitarian good in keeping it unsaid. This should be a Law in Pakistan.

Aisha F Sarwari.

Quadianiat - All you need to know about Mirza Sahib and his movement. I dont think a doubt should remain in anyone`s mind that Islam and Quadianiyat are two different religions:


http://alhafeez.org/rashid/

Reply #: 26 ylh, Asad (Sattar2)

[Mirza Mahmud Ahmad ascribed a claim of prophethood to Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, declaring that those who had not entered into his bai‘at were k r and outside the fold of Islam, thus dividing the Movement into two.]

Thanks for the URL. Above extract is taken from there. I`m still confused. This URL emphasises Sir Muhammad Iqbal was in favour of the Ahmediyya movement before declaration of prophethood, and was disillusioned because of that and turned to open opposition. Above extract states Mirza Ghulam Mohammed didn`t do it in his lifetime till 1908 but Mirza Mahmud ascribed prophethood to Mirza Ghulam Ahmed after his death. Asad (Sattar2) acknowledged Mirza Ghulam Ahmed claimed prophethood but this site doesn`t agree .. it says something else completely. Which statement is correct?

Also, I would like to know what was the difference between Qaadiyanis, Ahmedis, Mirzais` and the Lahori Party. I know the Lahori Party have significant differences while the others may be synonyms but I`m not sure.

These are sincere questions because I`m really curious about the Ahmediyya movement and why it is so reviled amongst the Muslim world but spreading so much at the same time amongst much of the non-Muslim world. I would really appreciate comments from my Ahmedi friends.

Rgds

Reply Rage # 20

“And we all know haow the majority in your land of haldi rule over the minorities, as exemplified by the recent events, for example.”

Haldi kahaN say yahaN aa murree? HEENG, ok, HEEEEEEEEENG!!!! (Aks aisha Fayyzi Sararwi iof you cannot get right..)

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To -morrow 13th march ,ides of march, that foretold fall of great Julius Caeser at the hand of his most trusted friend BRUTUS ..might repeat itself in Ayodhya ..bharat

Is struggling economy of developing nation,a nascent budding tecnologically promising country ,would throw itself for some obscurantist ,ancient mythology & ironically fall just like its nemesis islamic fundamentalist ???

http://new.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=4334





A Self-destructive Course



NDA cannot abdicate executive responsibility



Is our nation cursed? Just when it appeared that things were again beginning to go well for the country, we have willfully pushed ourselves into a crisis of our own making. A myopic ruling class and an incompetent government are allowing themselves to be blackmailed by ideologically motivated leaders with sectarian agendas into abdicating their constitutional responsibility of defending national security and integrity. It is not too late even at this stage for the central government to draw the line clearly between national interest and sectarian interest and ensure that the rule of law prevails. The functionaries of the State have all sworn their allegiance to the Constitution of India, even if in the name of their individual Gods. The issue at hand is not whether the Vishwa Hindu Parishad has a legal right to begin the construction of a temple at the “undisputed site” in Ayodhya. If the issue were that simple, it would have been resolved long back. Nor is the issue whether the matter should be resolved by a court or by religious leaders. The real issue today is whether any sectional group can be allowed to issue an ultimatum to a duly elected government and threaten not to respect the rule of law and be allowed to get away with it through appeasement. Faced with other, often less intractable, challenges successive governments have ducked executive responsibility and let the courts intervene. Trained only to defend the Constitution and take a legal view of any dispute, the judiciary has often tried to solve complex social and economic issues through legalistic means. The courts have not always help resolve a problem, they have often helped to merely put a lid on a controversy. So impotent has the executive become that it either resorts to the use of the armed forces or seeks judicial intervention. From dealing with issues such as pollution to determining the status of the ‘disputed structure’ at Ayodhya, the courts are being asked to solve problems which elected governments and at best community leaders must learn to grapple with. Even this is not the central issue today. The central issue is very simple. At a time when the entire Indian army has been mobilised to fight an external enemy that has tried hard to destabilise the country, should the energy of the State be diverted away from tackling this external threat to maintaining law and order at home? With what face does the government tell the world that India’s primary challenge is cross-border terrorism, when the government is being terrorised from within by the sons of the soil? The brutal and inhuman massacre at Godhra was undoubtedly an act of pre-meditated terrorism and the government must deal with it as such. However, nothing justifies the sectarian violence that was unleashed in return and that too must be dealt with as an anti-national act. More to the point, the challenge being posed today to communal harmony, through the unremitting pursuit of the agenda of the VHP, is also a challenge to the integrity of the nation and the sanctity of the Constitution. This challenge too must be faced squarely by the functionaries of the Indian State. The time has come for the government of Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee to stand up and be counted. Mr Vajpayee’s credibility has been deeply hurt by his pusillanimity and lack of courage and conviction in dealing with the challenge from within his own party. At his age he must surely know that history will judge him poorly if he does not stand up now to be counted. The communal leadership from both sides of the communal divide have succeeded in defining the current political agenda so much so that everyone has been strait-jacketed into debating whether some sort of symbolic construction activity can be allowed to be started on the “undisputed site” or not. Debates are raging on technicalities, on definitions, on what is disputed and what is not, on the jurisdiction of courts and the sentiment of minorities. In this entirely pointless cacophony, few are willing to stand up and ask what is the central challenge facing India and in what way does this diversion of energy help? India must march forward to become a prosperous economy. The energy of the government must be fully invested in creating jobs, in eliminating poverty, in creating the infrastructure for development, in strengthening national defence to ensure national integrity and security. Our great civilisational neighbour, China, an ancient land such as ours, has also been battling ghosts from the past for much of the past century. However, over the past two decades it has emerged an economic powerhouse, a “workshop of the world”, a military superpower. United, strong and forward-looking, China is not allowing the burden of history to weigh down its present or blur its vision of the future. To count for anything in the comity of nations we must also become an economically prosperous and politically strong nation, which ensures the well-being of all and lives in peace with others and is at peace with itself. This is the nation’s agenda. The world is watching us with hope, expectation and anticipation. We have more friends and well-wishers in the world today than at any other time in recent history. How tragic that at a time when the world wants India to move forward, many among us are intent on pulling us back, holding us down, dividing us, making us fight one another. It is our enemies who will want to see us divided along as many lines as possible. More importantly, they would want our national energy diverted from the task of nation-building and economic construction and resurgence to that of maintaining law and order at home, preventing neighbours from killing one another, inciting hatred along communal lines. Whose agenda are the enthusiasts of temple construction in Ayodhya pursuing? A statement has been made by a VHP leader that if construction of the temple at Ayodhya does not begin on March 15th, the VHP will unleash a movement in every village of the country to construct temples. Our Motherland will be grateful to her citizens who in fact go to every village and construct a school, a hospital, a home for the homeless, a granary for the farmer, a road to a market, a canal to bring water, a power line to bring electricity. Light a lamp in every household, by all means, and God’s work will be well and truly done.

More discussion on Iqbal and Ahmadism:

http://www.muslim.org/iqbal/contents.htm

I also found a rebuttal to this on an Ahmadi website though:

Dr. Sir Muhammad Iqbal is revered as one of the greatest poets, intellectuals and philosophers to arise in the history of Islam. He had met Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, and wrote of him in 1900 as “probably the profoundest theologian among modern Indian Muslims”. In 1910 Iqbal described the Ahmadiyya community as “a true model of Islamic life”. Later in 1932 he wrote of members of the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement as “Muslims who have a sense of honour”.

Indians,

You can Have Iqbal all you want... Read the Bigoted letter Iqbal penned to Nehru. Atleast Jinnah repeatedly said Ahmadis were Muslims. Thank God our founder is Jinnah and Not Iqbal.

Lahore

June 21, 1936

Dear Pandit Jawahar Lal,

Thank you so much for your letter which I received yesterday. At the time I wrote in reply to your articles, I believed that you had no idea of the political attitude of the Ahmadis. Indeed the main reason why I wrote a reply was to show, especially to you, how Muslim loyalty had originated and how eventually it had found a basis in Ahmadism. After the publication of my paper, I discovered, to my great surprise, that even the educated Muslims had no idea of the historical causes which had shaped the teachings of Ahmadism moreover. Your Muslims admirers in the Punjab and elsewhere felt perturbed over your articles as they thought you were in sympathy with Ahmadiyya movement. This was mainly due to the fact that the Ahmadis were jubilant over your articles. The Ahmadis Press was mainly responsible for this misunderstanding about you. However, I am glad to know that my impression was erroneous. I myself have little interest in theology, but had to dabble in it a bit in order to meet the Ahmadis on their own grounds. I assure you that my paper was written with the best of intentions for Islam and India. I have no doubt in my mind that the Ahmadis are traitors both to Islam and India.

I was extremely sorry to miss the opportunity of meeting you in Lahore. I was very ill in those days and could not leave my rooms. For the last two years, I have been living a life of practical retirement on account of continued illness. Do let me know when you come to the Punjab next. Did you receive my letter regarding your proposed Union for Civil Liberties? As you did not acknowledge it in your letter, I fear it never reached you.

Sincerely yours,

Mohammad Iqbal