Whose Iqbal — Ours or Theirs?

re: semipreciousme

{{….ahem….i could go on and on about how he improved the wizard from the worst record in the nba to a place where they were even talking about making the playoffs, but i WON`T…:)}}

haha...i knew that was coming :)

{{….did you know this asscroft guy used to contribute to a white supremist magazine?…and how he ordered some naked statue in a court to be covered up?…the most aggravating thing that they’ve done is stop health aid to developing countries and organizations that allow/advocate abortion….i mean let’s not even get into the utter STUPIDITY of that…}}

really?..which magazine?..why didn`t the democrats jump all over that...i do know about that abortion thing...the republicans` stand on that issue is sickening...and these are the people who then harp on about eliminating welfare rolls...how stupid to not realize that forcing unwanted child births increase welfare rolls for a variety of obvious reasons...

{….ralph nader rules!…}

hmm...that fellow is a bit impractical, isn`t he?...he wanted to take on all industries at once...and force many to completely shutdown...fine, but then he never had a plan for restoring jobs that would be lost as a result...i worry he`d cause an economic crisis...

{{….i was watching this old amitabh bachan movie with my mom the other day….and would you believe he was prancing around some trees in a white shirt AND white pants AND white shoes???….almost barfed…..}}

be nice!...i used to watch only amitabh bachan movies when i was young(er) :)...i`ve seen all his bell bottom pants, shirts with big collars, funky sideburns, etc....i dunno...i think he pulled it off considering that it was the 70s (ok, maybe i`m being silly :) )...the trouble starts when someone tries to pull that off now..lol...are you a fan of the NY Times?..well, the Sunday Times has a huge section on just style and fashion...there`s a wickedly funny guy named Hal Rubenstein who sometimes mocks silly fashion trends for men...hilarious...you should check it out....

{{…have yet to figure it out….prefer platinum myself:)….}}

ok, let me rephrase..lol..what`s desi women`s fascination with `precious` metals? :)...

{{….or a couple of good books, or clothes….and that’s season tickets for the wizards, thank you very much:)…..}}

the books are cheap...the clothes, i actually agree with that as well...(only if it doesn`t involve spending 80 hours looking for one article of clothing :) )...wizards tickets??...sacrilegious!... :)

rsaxena:

“as much faith as you had in jordan`s comeback attempt :) .. lol”

….ahem….i could go on and on about how he improved the wizard from the worst record in the nba to a place where they were even talking about making the playoffs, but i WON`T…:)

“you mean like ashcroft?...totally hate that guy...the first thing they did when they got to office was funding some christian `faith-based` organizations with federal money...”

….did you know this asscroft guy used to contribute to a white supremist magazine?…and how he ordered some naked statue in a court to be covered up?…the most aggravating thing that they’ve done is stop health aid to developing countries and organizations that allow/advocate abortion….i mean let’s not even get into the utter STUPIDITY of that…

“i turned anti-republican at that very instant...but now i`ve got no party to support, b.c. i turned anti-democrat a year before that...”

….ralph nader rules!…

“yuck...drives me up the wall...all the grad students who were TAs for my science classes thought they looked pretty damn spiffy in their expensive dress pants and white sneakers :)”

….if there is one thing that looks nasty on men, it’s white pants and shoes….i was watching this old amitabh bachan movie with my mom the other day….and would you believe he was prancing around some trees in a white shirt AND white pants AND white shoes???….almost barfed…..

“...seriously, what`s desi women`s fascination with the yellow stuff?...”

…have yet to figure it out….prefer platinum myself:)….

“i mean, doesn`t it make perfect sense to buy season tickets at madison square garden with that money instead?...or mets season tickets”

….or a couple of good books, or clothes….and that’s season tickets for the wizards, thank you very much:)…..

re: semipreciousme

{{….but give it time…i have great faith in desi resiliency, as corny as that may sound…}}

as much faith as you had in jordan`s comeback attempt :) .. lol

{{….aargh…don’t get me started against that moron….he’s been hanging out with one christian fundo too many….}}

you mean like ashcroft?...totally hate that guy...the first thing they did when they got to office was funding some christian `faith-based` organizations with federal money...i turned anti-republican at that very instant...but now i`ve got no party to support, b.c. i turned anti-democrat a year before that...

{{..hmm…cricket…another subject i can talk about for hours:)….not to rub it or anything, but it has always surprised me that india hasn’t produced better fast bowlers anywhere near the caliber of wasim, imran, waqar and co (ok, i am rubbing it in: ))….esp considering the sheer numbers and the god-like status of cricket there…}}

oh dear, another VERY sore topic for me...you seem to be hitting em all...lol...i`ve been trying to answer that question myself, but i`ve given up...i`ll just accept that my countrymen`s forte is science and cheating each other out of money in shady businesses :)...

{{…yeah, but knowing the desi mind set, they’d prob. be taking shortcuts a mile into it:)….}}

no kidding...and they`ll stop running and start a business selling lemonade along the route to other runners :)

{{…hey….anything’s better than shalwar qameez with sneakers…)}}

yuck...drives me up the wall...all the grad students who were TAs for my science classes thought they looked pretty damn spiffy in their expensive dress pants and white sneakers :)

{{….ahem…my mom also seems to have deprived burundi of a fair share of their gold…but she does NOT wear it all at once:)….}}

...i`ve seen some aunties whose necks and ears start to stoop from the weight of that stuff...of course it gets even more irritating when they find it necessary to announce their latest acquisition along with its price...seriously, what`s desi women`s fascination with the yellow stuff?...i really, really don`t get it...i mean, doesn`t it make perfect sense to buy season tickets at madison square garden with that money instead?...or mets season tickets?...

harimau:

“I don`t know about the rest but there has been speculation about Harimau in the past. If you notice, PMishra was probably posting during the period April 1 thru April 8 when I was absent from Chowk for lack of access to the Internet. So I can categorically prove that I am NOT PMishra, though I like his style.”

….you think that’s inane? according to his/her nickness, hamidm and i are supposed to be the same person!….not that i mind, but the ludicrousness of it all….

rsaxena:

“yup...although they will need to break free from their parents` shackles...you may not believe this, but there are actually very wealthy desi parents who refuse to pay college tuition if their kids study something they don`t approve of...amazing...the first generation of desis came with ideals from the 70s that have not changed...even if the ideals of people living in their countries of origin have...it is so disgusting...”

….yeah, attitudes like that aren’t going to get you anywhere fast….but give it time…i have great faith in desi resiliency, as corny as that may sound…

“nice...gonna clone 12-head? :)”

…lol…as if there weren’t enough of him/her around…

“...actually if that idiot bush has his way, we`ll stop any meaningful progress on genetic research...”

….aargh…don’t get me started against that moron….he’s been hanging out with one christian fundo too many….

“..but see, as much as it pains me to admit this, at least you usually have a decent cricket team...”

….hmm…cricket…another subject i can talk about for hours:)….not to rub it or anything, but it has always surprised me that india hasn’t produced better fast bowlers anywhere near the caliber of wasim, imran, waqar and co (ok, i am rubbing it in: ))….esp considering the sheer numbers and the god-like status of cricket there…

“...why start running marathons up and down the mountains near your village”…

…yeah, but knowing the desi mind set, they’d prob. be taking shortcuts a mile into it:)….

“..have to credit their ingenuity :)”

….sigh…..if not the gold in olympics, maybe this’ll get us somewhere…..

“yah, but it`s mostly the super wealthy...even then, only a subset of them...the rest make the necessary adaptations...”

…yes, but trust me, it’s catching on…you’d be surprised at how ppl here are slowly becoming fashion conscious… (albeit an imitation of the west…but, hey….anything’s better than shalwar qameez with sneakers…)

“how many times have you seen a desi uncle with hair popping out of his 60s shirt with his wife carrying burundi`s national stock of gold on her neck and ears...”

….ahem…my mom also seems to have deprived burundi of a fair share of their gold…but she does NOT wear it all at once:)….

re: semipreciousme

{{...yes, but most desis are economic migrants….they came here to make big $…as time passes and they become more and more economically prosperous and integrated…and second generation desis come into the picture, they’ll start thinking about how to have their say in politics…}}

yup...although they will need to break free from their parents` shackles...you may not believe this, but there are actually very wealthy desi parents who refuse to pay college tuition if their kids study something they don`t approve of...amazing...the first generation of desis came with ideals from the 70s that have not changed...even if the ideals of people living in their countries of origin have...it is so disgusting...

{{…nothing so enlightened i’m afraid…although eng. was always one of my fav. subjects in school…}}

hmm..i was convinced it was English...

{{and i was pretty good at it too, if i do say so myself:)….}}

seems like it :)

{{majoring in bio, and will prob. go into either biotechnology or marine biology…}}

nice...gonna clone 12-head? :) ...actually if that idiot bush has his way, we`ll stop any meaningful progress on genetic research...

{{….groan…please, let’s not even get into how

pitiful desis are when it comes to the olympics….more than a billion ppl and only a bronze medal to show for it…p-a-t-h-e-t-i-c…}}

oh dear, another sore topic for me :)...but see, as much as it pains me to admit this, at least you usually have a decent cricket team...india has no sporting accomplishments to speak of beyond some fluke cricket victories here and there, and some `golden hockey era` decades before i was even born...

{{and it has nothing whatsoever do with facilities/money/blahblahblah….if countries like ethiopia and lithuania can do it, there’s no reason why we can’t…..it’s just that desis are prob. the most un-athletically inclined ppl in the world…}}

right on...the way a desi mind works, if you`re going to try like hell to achieve something, you might as well start some shady business to make money...why start running marathons up and down the mountains near your village (which is apparently how kenyan runners get started)...you`ll probably be called a psycho by people around you, and there are no guarantees that you`ll ever make it...(i shouldn`t complain about them being risk averse considering the road i`ve taken...but it`s just desi roots :) )

{{…ugh…i was reading that titanic was such a big hit in afghanistan (this was during the taliban), that barbers over there were even giving smt called a titanic haircut…..whatever THAT means….}}

hehe...when air jordan sneakers were all the craze in the US, i once saw a shoe shop in india with a functional imitation called something like `hava jordan`...have to credit their ingenuity :)

{{….true enough…..although, imo, lately ppl have started becoming pretty fashion savvy….one of the boons of globalization i guess…}}

yah, but it`s mostly the super wealthy...even then, only a subset of them...the rest make the necessary adaptations...and the desis in the US have particularly abhorrent fashion sense, regardless of how wealthy they are...how many times have you seen a desi uncle with hair popping out of his 60s shirt with his wife carrying burundi`s national stock of gold on her neck and ears...

Ref AAmir-Studebaker-Hydra #: 146

[I know this ``nick`` problem is my greatest flaw.I think i have to go for psychiatric help.]

Check out the Headshrinker. That way, you will go completely crazy and be shut up in a looney bin without access to a computer or the Internet.

[But then you might not realize ...Aakash & Stuka may be same or P Misra & Harimou Or Unkal Jay & R Desikan or SPM & Hamidm or Hobbyty & Urstruly or ...]

I don`t know about the rest but there has been speculation about Harimau in the past. If you notice, PMishra was probably posting during the period April 1 thru April 8 when I was absent from Chowk for lack of access to the Internet. So I can categorically prove that I am NOT PMishra, though I like his style.

rsaxena:

“at least you`re not a bandwagon fan :)...”

….no way….bulls fan and whatever-team-jordan-plays-for fan till life…:)

“i`m convinced some of my friends seem to become overnight fans of whichever team is winning that year...for example, what business does someone who lives in new york have liking the spurs just before they are about to win a championship?...crazy..and then they have the gall to deny it...”

…. blasphemy….

“my white friends seem to understand what i mean, but not the desis, who are still convinced that making mo money, mo money qualifies as the `achievement of a lifetime`...”

...yes, but most desis are economic migrants….they came here to make big $…as time passes and they become more and more economically prosperous and integrated…and second generation desis come into the picture, they’ll start thinking about how to have their say in politics…

“btw, are you a really a literature or English major or what?..”

…nothing so enlightened i’m afraid…although eng. was always one of my fav. subjects in school….and i was pretty good at it too, if i do say so myself:)….majoring in bio, and will prob. go into either biotechnology or marine biology…

“cool...in basketball?....i thought desis weren`t nearly tall enough to go there :)”

….he’s 16…and 6’3…(and growing)…..and def. in basketball…in fact, he’s a major air god fan, too….(wonder where he got that from?: ))…

“...i figured they would be relegated to taking home the odd badminton and archery olympic golds...”

….groan…please, let’s not even get into how

pitiful desis are when it comes to the olympics….more than a billion ppl and only a bronze medal to show for it…p-a-t-h-e-t-i-c…and it has nothing whatsoever do with facilities/money/blahblahblah….if countries like ethiopia and lithuania can do it, there’s no reason why we can’t…..it’s just that desis are prob. the most un-athletically inclined ppl in the world…



“hehe...i hope men weren`t running around with white shoes bearing kate winslet`s picture...”

…ugh…i was reading that titanic was such a big hit in afghanistan (this was during the taliban), that barbers over there were even giving smt called a titanic haircut…..whatever THAT means….

“i know people in india will wear the weirdest stuff if they`re convinced that it looks `phoren` enough...”

….true enough…..although, imo, lately ppl have started becoming pretty fashion savvy….one of the boons of globalization i guess…

re: semipreciousme

{{…..if you insist:)….but i can imagine how you feel….watching the bulls’ fall from grace hasn’t exactly been not painful….}}

at least you`re not a bandwagon fan :)...i`m convinced some of my friends seem to become overnight fans of whichever team is winning that year...for example, what business does someone who lives in new york have liking the spurs just before they are about to win a championship?...crazy..and then they have the gall to deny it...

{{….the african-american comm. has been around in america much longer than the desis….they have about a couple of hundred years on us….only in the last generation or so have blacks been rising/accepted in high positions….compare desis w/that and i don’t think we’ve done too bad…..}}

...i think desis have done very well as a group...my only problem is that they seem motivated by little else other than money...don`t get me wrong, i`m as much of a money-loving capitalist as the next fellow, but lately i`ve been feeling that that is insufficient...my white friends seem to understand what i mean, but not the desis, who are still convinced that making mo money, mo money qualifies as the `achievement of a lifetime`...

..btw, are you a really a literature or English major or what?..

{{btw, re: jordan….i have a cousin who’s def. going to be making waves….}}

cool...in basketball?....i thought desis weren`t nearly tall enough to go there :) ...i figured they would be relegated to taking home the odd badminton and archery olympic golds...

{{…lol…you don’t even want to know about all the titanic paraphernalia that came out when the movie was released….t-shirts, caps, belts, shoes (yes, shoes!)…i remember this one shirt saying….bari kashti ka bara pyar, or smt equally hilarious…}}

hehe...i hope men weren`t running around with white shoes bearing kate winslet`s picture...i know people in india will wear the weirdest stuff if they`re convinced that it looks `phoren` enough...

rsaxena:

“ouch...ok, next topic please :)”

…..if you insist:)….but i can imagine how you feel….watching the bulls’ fall from grace hasn’t exactly been not painful….

“...where are the desi colin powells?...the condoleeza rices (stanford phi betta kappa, youngest tenured professor, etc. etc.)?...the rudy giulianis?...the (ahem) jordans?...”

….the african-american comm. has been around in america much longer than the desis….they have about a couple of hundred years on us….only in the last generation or so have blacks been rising/accepted in high positions….compare desis w/that and i don’t think we’ve done too bad…..give it another generation or two….in fact, i think the desis and other minorities should be really grateful to martin luther king….he was instrumental in bringing the plight of the african-american comm. to light and hence opening the door for other minorities….btw, re: jordan….i have a cousin who’s def. going to be making waves….

“hehe...i remember when WWF started to become popular in india, kids were running around with t-shirts saying `hamaara macho` (as in randy savage)...”

…lol…you don’t even want to know about all the titanic paraphernalia that came out when the movie was released….t-shirts, caps, belts, shoes (yes, shoes!)…i remember this one shirt saying….bari kashti ka bara pyar, or smt equally hilarious…

re: semipreciousme

{{…tsk, tsk….my commiserations….i can only imagine the heartache of watching the air god and co decimate the knicks playoff after playoff:)…}}

ouch...ok, next topic please :)

{{…mostly cultural, imo….we come from pretty conservative societies where getting a good, dependable job and raising a family are on top of the priority list….risking all and then doing it AGAIN would be enough to give the parents a heart attack…not to mention the plethora of relatives ganging up on you…}}

i agree...but i think it became cultural because of the historically poor economic conditions in our countries...people were/are just looking for stability, because the alternative is downright horrible...in the US, there are safety nets like social security, medicare, unemployment insurance, welfare, etc. etc....no such safety in our countries...can`t blame people for being risk averse in an environment like that...but then it has become ingrained into our culture....and parents, relatives, etc. maintain that risk aversion even when it isn`t necessary...and it has seeped into our generation as well...how unfortunate...particularly when you realize that achieving anything `great` requires veering off the traditional path...else you`re just riding some bandwagon...you can make money, which a lot of desis are good at, but that alone is not `greatness`...

{{….no way….you’re living in the land of immigrants….where people have literally built whole empires out of nothing…..yeah, these days its more cutthroat…but no lack of inspirational stories, imo….}}

true, but i think the days of people arriving with a $1 in their pockets and turning it into millions are gone...for one thing, immigration will put you right back on the plane and send you back :)...what could be considered a `great achievement` even 10 years ago, is now rather `ordinary`...even all those desi dotcom millionaires turned out to have fool`s gold...where are the desi colin powells?...the condoleeza rices (stanford phi betta kappa, youngest tenured professor, etc. etc.)?...the rudy giulianis?...the (ahem) jordans?...

{{….in time, in time….doesn’t take desis long to replicate the west…i’m sure we’ll have a desi version of wf….characters (the patthar?) and all somewhere down the line:)….}}

hehe...i remember when WWF started to become popular in india, kids were running around with t-shirts saying `hamaara macho` (as in randy savage)...

rsaxena:

“no no...you don`t understand...i`ve never denied his greatness...it would be foolish...it`s just that i don`t root for him to win...because inevitably it comes at the expense of the team i support...and between him and reggie miller, i`ve had many a miserable playoff evening....”

…tsk, tsk….my commiserations….i can only imagine the heartache of watching the air god and co decimate the knicks playoff after playoff:)…

“true true...i think someone could do an interesting dissertation on why desis tend to be risk averse...is it genetic, cultural, socio-economic, or some combination of all...i know of very few desis who royally failed at something, tried again, and `rose from the ashes`...they either never try again after truly failing, or they never truly took a risk...know what i mean?...”

…mostly cultural, imo….we come from pretty conservative societies where getting a good, dependable job and raising a family are on top of the priority list….risking all and then doing it AGAIN would be enough to give the parents a heart attack…not to mention the plethora of relatives ganging up on you…

“not enough inspirational stories for us 20-somethings :(...”

….no way….you’re living in the land of immigrants….where people have literally built whole empires out of nothing…..yeah, these days its more cutthroat…but no lack of inspirational stories, imo….

“haha...kabbadi?...but there are no Rock-like characters raising the People`s Eyebrow :)”

….in time, in time….doesn’t take desis long to replicate the west…i’m sure we’ll have a desi version of wf….characters (the patthar?) and all somewhere down the line:)….

rsaxena:

“no no...you don`t understand...i`ve never denied his greatness...it would be foolish...it`s just that i don`t root for him to win...because inevitably it comes at the expense of the team i support...and between him and reggie miller, i`ve had many a miserable playoff evening....”

…tsk, tsk….my commiserations….i can only imagine the heartache of watching the air god and co decimate the knicks playoff after playoff:)…

“true true...i think someone could do an interesting dissertation on why desis tend to be risk averse...is it genetic, cultural, socio-economic, or some combination of all...i know of very few desis who royally failed at something, tried again, and `rose from the ashes`...they either never try again after truly failing, or they never truly took a risk...know what i mean?...”

…mostly cultural, imo….we come from pretty conservative societies where getting a good, dependable job and raising a family are on top of the priority list….risking all and then doing it AGAIN would be enough to give the parents a heart attack…not to mention the plethora of relatives ganging up on you…

“not enough inspirational stories for us 20-somethings :(...”

….no way….you’re living in the land of immigrants….where people have literally built whole empires out of nothing…..yeah, these days its more cutthroat…but no lack of inspirational stories, imo….

“haha...kabbadi?...but there are no Rock-like characters raising the People`s Eyebrow :)”

….in time, in time….doesn’t take desis long to replicate the west…i’m sure we’ll have a desi version of wf….characters (the patthar?) and all somewhere down the line:)….

re: semipreciousme

{{….aha!!…..i knew it!…..a closet jordan fan….finally decided to come out, huh?….}}

no no...you don`t understand...i`ve never denied his greatness...it would be foolish...it`s just that i don`t root for him to win...because inevitably it comes at the expense of the team i support...and between him and reggie miller, i`ve had many a miserable playoff evening....

{{..this’s the age when its done…now or never….(sheesh, sounds like smt dr. phil would say: ))….i was just watching this bbc documentary recently….they were showing what all the 20smts who had plunged gun, stock and barrel into the dotcom mania which had now gone bust, were now doing…they’d lost millions of $, but they were still upbeat and willing to risk everything all over again into smt new…brash maybe….but then they would’ve spent the rest of their life wondering what if?….ok, now i def. sound like dr. phil…..too much oprah…:)}}

true true...i think someone could do an interesting dissertation on why desis tend to be risk averse...is it genetic, cultural, socio-economic, or some combination of all...i know of very few desis who royally failed at something, tried again, and `rose from the ashes`...they either never try again after truly failing, or they never truly took a risk...know what i mean?...not enough inspirational stories for us 20-somethings :(...

{{….well, here you have the desi version….big, fat men in loincloth clawing and rolling all over each other in a dirt pit:)….}}

haha...kabbadi?...but there are no Rock-like characters raising the People`s Eyebrow :)

rsaxena:

“hmm...i`m not so sure that`s a wise decision, but maybe he`ll prove me and all the other naysayers wrong...i guess that`s what made him great in the first place...not giving up...risking it all...doing the impossible...”

….aha!!…..i knew it!…..a closet jordan fan….finally decided to come out, huh?….

“if only i could absorb some of that these days”

…..this’s the age when its done…now or never….(sheesh, sounds like smt dr. phil would say: ))….i was just watching this bbc documentary recently….they were showing what all the 20smts who had plunged gun, stock and barrel into the dotcom mania which had now gone bust, were now doing…they’d lost millions of $, but they were still upbeat and willing to risk everything all over again into smt new…brash maybe….but then they would’ve spent the rest of their life wondering what if?….ok, now i def. sound like dr. phil…..too much oprah…:)

“sadly, they don`t show much of WWF in Asia...not in southeast asia at least...”

….well, here you have the desi version….big, fat men in loincloth clawing and rolling all over each other in a dirt pit:)….

re: semipreciousme

{{....i guess like he said, he still had the drive in him....he`s gonna be back next season...let`s see how that goes....this comeback has cost him a lot...his knee, his marriage....}}

hmm...i`m not so sure that`s a wise decision, but maybe he`ll prove me and all the other naysayers wrong...i guess that`s what made him great in the first place...not giving up...risking it all...doing the impossible...if only i could absorb some of that these days...

{{...hmmm....but weren`t you supporting the yanks against arizona in the world series?...}}

no way...never...being in new york, i had to keep my support for arizona secret...else i risked getting lynched in that city...for me it was quiet redemption for what the yankees did to the mets in the 2000 world series...childish, i know...but it`s a bit of comfort :)

sadly, they don`t show much of WWF in Asia...not in southeast asia at least...

rsaxena:

``oh wow...didn`t know that...yeah, heard about the season-ending injury...frankly, i think he`s beyond his prime...he should coach and prove his brilliance off the court too...``

...age ain`t nothing but a number...ok, yeah, that`s a bit idealistic, esp. when it comes to sports....i guess like he said, he still had the drive in him....he`s gonna be back next season...let`s see how that goes....this comeback has cost him a lot...his knee, his marriage....

``but that is why i love watching WWF (even now)...it is a riot...but ironically, WWF realizes the frivolous nature of grown men reaching for their primal, animal instincts..hence it comes up with plots and twists...football somehow misses that and takes it way too seriously...``

....yeah, but football`s the real deal....no acting, no storyline....just pure animal instinct....wwf`s like a soap opera...with a lotta body slams...:)

``oh dear...this is a tough one to explain...i think it took on gravity after the 2000 mets vs. yankees world series...i think the new yorkers who like the mets have very different personalities from the ones who like the yankees....the yankees are old school...they are about tradition...about pedigree...about their obnoxious owner buying his way to glory...the mets are underdogs...newcomers...they play in queens, the heart of middle-class new york...they have played in the shadows of the yankees, until now...they play in flushing meadows, where the US Open Tennis championship is held...where the world`s fare was...``

...hmmm....but weren`t you supporting the yanks against arizona in the world series?...