Visit to Krishna-Janam-Bhoomi

For Roohi,

Kemal Ataturk to a British Correspondent ` I have no religion, and sometimes I wish all religions to the bottom of the sea` (1928)

Harimau,

`` Do you know that Nehru attended the opening of the Somnath Temple that was rebuilt after 1947? He said that the new temple finally started healing the gash that had been on the collective psyche of the Hindus for over a thousand years. Do you even understand why an agnostic like Nehru would have said that? Fortunately, Mahmud of Ghazni did not erect a mosque in place of the temple he destroyed so there was no controversy over the rebuilding of the Somnath Temple as there is today over Ramjanmabhoomi and Krishnajanmabhoomi.``

Thankyou sir for that information. I didn`t know that. I will never again mention Nehru as one of my favorite world leaders since according to you he was a closet Hindu Bigot.

I never understand this need to heal the `wounds` inflicted by people 1000 years ago in a different time to different people in context of a different environment. Only fools `heal` such wounds! Next perhaps the Muslim World should attack Mongolia to avenge the destruction of Baghdad by Halaqu in the 13th century, and while we are at it, lets go kill a couple of Englishmen for King Richard`s attrocities in the Holy Land during the Crusades...

Stupid, Stupid people!

#: 8

Layman

scout #3:

``there are many mosques in Spain that were turned into churches....it doesn`t really matter. people in Spain are doing fine. it`s just us desis who get idiotic about reli``

Layman

Well Done!

Teach these semi baked muslims there own history !!!

I have a dream, a desire, since I was a little kid, since the time I started reading on my own. But before I tell you about my dream, I want to ask people of Hindu faith a couple of questions. By george it is not my intention to offend you but to ask you to clarify certain things about your faith. It is my understanding that most of the prominent Hindu gods shared approximately a contemporary time with each other. The earliest Upnishads were written some 1000 to 1500 BC. The epics that describe those gods are from Upnaishads-meaning that gods came to earth in prehistoric times. So my question is when was the last time a god was born. And who. Why aren`t gods born these days. I have read that Gandhi is also considered an Avtar, was he literally an avtar or is it just a figure of speech. Why there hasn`t been a god born since past 2500-3000 years. Is there a chance that a god is born tomorrow. Does it have to be India where he will be born. Will you accept a god if he is born in Africa or even Paksitan. how would you know that a god is born. Does a new god has to do only good things to Hindu people or a god doing good things to Paksitani Muslims will also be a god. For example, was mother thresa a godess a devi and what about maulana abdul sattar edhi, is he a potential god.

I ask these questions because I have a dream since I was a kid. It is actually a carnal desire rather than a dream to be a god at some lonely undiscovered island. I think being god is great, being a prophet suckks. If you are a god you do not need to carry that bagage of morality and righteous virtue all the time like prophets. You do whatever you want to do because you are god-the unquestionable, the absolute, all powerful god. I like hindu gods better because they are not as absolute, as unquestionable, as all powerfull as Sematic gods. It is easier to relate to Hindu gods. I dont want to be an avtar like Gandhi. Gandhi had to work his tail off to become an avatar. I do not want to work that hard-I just want to be a god. I am sure if I know how, I will find my island.

rsaxena

why thankyou ... :)

The author says [True, that in many parts of India we find broken statues and temples. But if one is to be believed then why were mosques built in some of the places where once the temples stood. Was it because the invader/ ruler got some pervert satisfaction out of it? Or was it his way of recognizing the holiness of the place, while building a mosque there and offering prayers to the God in the way he was used to? We might never be sure because history only gives us an account of the rulers and invaders and tells us nothing about what went through the hearts and mind of the people of the bygone era.]

Yes, Mona. You are completely right. The Muslim invaders had nothing but the purest thoughts in mind. That is why they built their mosques on holy grounds wherever they found them. It is too bad that the Taliban was ousted before they could build a masjid where the Bamiyan Buddhas stood. They were only clearing the area to build a magnificent masjid so that the sanctity of the place could be recognized for years to come.

You, Mona, are a complete idiot. You are so full of sh!t I can`t believe it. Why did you lie to your niece? What happens when she learns of your lie from a Vishwa Hindu Parishad pamphlet that calls for the destruction of that particular mosque? Why didn`t you tell her that the previous Krishna temple was looted and then burnt to the ground by an invading Muslim king and the mosque was erected in its place and that Hindus over a period of time built their temple at an adjacent spot?... because that is the truth! Why didn`t you explain to her that it is perhaps not possible to set matters right today because of the fact that we have to learn to live with people of all faiths whereas that was not necessarily the thinking a thousand years back? Why did you lie? What were you so ashamed of that you had to lie?

Do you know that Nehru attended the opening of the Somnath Temple that was rebuilt after 1947? He said that the new temple finally started healing the gash that had been on the collective psyche of the Hindus for over a thousand years. Do you even understand why an agnostic like Nehru would have said that? Fortunately, Mahmud of Ghazni did not erect a mosque in place of the temple he destroyed so there was no controversy over the rebuilding of the Somnath Temple as there is today over Ramjanmabhoomi and Krishnajanmabhoomi.

[quote]

When Islam came to India, Muslims too saw this place. They to believing that God is one considered this place to be holy. So they built a mosque beside it to offer prayer in the way their religion has taught to them.

[end-quote]

This is intellectual dishonesty, plain and simple. This is not going to offer any solutions to anything. All it does is convinvce middle-class hindus that ``secular`` indians are afraid to face the truth about their islamic history. This is one reason why hate-mongers like the RSS have gained traction in India.

The systematic destruction of hindu and buddhist images and artifacts throughout North India and Afghanistan is something that needs to be acknowledged and accepted by all reasonable people. Doing so does not make one a hindu fanatic. Only a fanatic about the truth. Satyamev Jayate!

The next question is: what is the correct response? This is a difficult question, and like many others, requires open discussion and exchange of ideas.

Consider the caste-system. It is a terrible thing especially for the dalit peoples. It has basically been a form of slavery for them. It has mostly been perpetrated by upper-caste hindus.

Should we try to deny it? Should we pretend that in the past there could have been some reasons why it is was OK? Absolutely not. At the same time acknowledging this terrible crime does not give the right of revenge to dalits. There is affirmative action, special emphasis on dalit education, political empowerment,....

ylh #2

Would you please,please wake up and snap out of it ? This is Planet Earth - the most powerful nation here leads under the banner ``In God we Trust`` !! Bush is a born again and so is Putin !! No candidate running for President would ever deny God here in the USA. I get a couple of JW`s or Mormons at my door per month seeking new lambs for their flock. They politely ask me to accept the word of Jesus and I politely tell them No. This is OK with me and that is what we need to learn. I too have the freedom to go door to door handing out flowers and asking people to accept Krishna, if I wanted !!

Who are the Pakistanis and Indians with their millions of uneducated, poor masses to break out of the shameless ``subcontinental`` obsessions with god ? It is not going to HAPPEN in the REAL WORLD.

All we can do is TRY and get them to co-exist peacefully. It can happen - but people have to be persuaded to give up their cherished hatered of the OTHER faith and see them as people not evil monoliths !!! My neighborhood is filled with Jewish and Catholic families that a century or two ago were still in the Pogrom stage of coexistance.

Please DO continue to live in the fantasy world in your head while other people try and actually do something about reconciling people without stripping them of their faith !!!!! or GROW UP !!!

scout #3:

``there are many mosques in Spain that were turned into churches....it doesn`t really matter. people in Spain are doing fine. it`s just us desis who get idiotic about religious issues.``

I am not sure of the religious significance the mosques in Spain had... but the birth place of God`s incarnations (avatars) do have a special significance, dont you agree?

Also, hardly any Muslims in Spain at the moment to rue over the lost mosques, while there are lots of Hindus in India, and tasting political power after a loooong time, so there...

Bad timing chowk staff!

I`m sure the author`s intention was good (aren`t they all) but right now nobody, even us God-loving Hindoos, wants to be reminded that it was our stupid insistence on mandir wahi banayenge that led to 1000 odd of our own being massacred in cold blood. Or hot blood if you will. What`s the difference? They died, one way or another.

Ironically, read a piece on how Ayodhya has hundreds of Ram temples all claiming to be the birthplace of the great one, it seems in those days birth certificates weren`t issued.... and can we be dead sure that the Thai and Indonesian Ayodhyas aren`t the real thing?

My suggestion....build Ram and Krishna birthplace temples all you want, funding toh hai hee, do it somewhere nice and non-controversial where at least pilgrims are welcome and tourism revenues will happen. What ever happened to good old horse sense?

This h1t has gone on long enough.... what are we proving? that we are every bit as blodthirsty as the ``invaders`` before us? And I thought we lived in an ``enlightened`` age.

Monaji

Thanks for an interesting article. Your way of answering your niece was particularly nice, but I`m afraid I think that when Muslims replaced temples with mosques (and sometimes used the stones to build the new structures) they were making a point of their victory over the old order, not one of understanding or respect. Have you seen the mosque near the Qutub Minar in Delhi?

Regards,

Zafar

Mona Saigal?

Isnt Mathura right on the way to Agra by road from Delhi.?

I think your reply to your 10yr old neice, why so many P.A.C the provencial Armed Constablary of U.P. were there truthfully should have been b/c so many unemployed able bodied jawans are there in a large state like U.P. you got to guive them some job to keep busy & get some pay check.

The PAC have ben notorious to cause riots in Meerut ,Kanpur ,Moradabad etc.few years back.

The fact that there is fairly large & busy Krishan Mandir means like in Benares ,the mandir was NOT destroyed but an addition of Mosque both in Mathura & Varanasi was made by who ever the king was.

re: ylh

{{Please for God`s sake and for the sake of Pakistan and India, leave your gods at home .. and give up this obsession with them.. these festivals, these religious ceremonies, these janam bhoomis, these sufi saints, this goody goody feeling that you crave... this so religious diversity... all this is the first and foremost cause of dissent and division....}}

you are at your best when you are trashing religion...good work...

ali1 #1,

are you Pakistani?

if you are, did you ever get this passionate about the sectarian violence that occurs in Pakistan every day?

or did I miss it?

Mona,

try not to get caught up in the locations and specificities of mosques and temples....they are not really places of God, they are just places where people gather to see other people from the same religion and gain some sense of false security through that concept. you might as well make your bedroom your temple or mosque.

there are many mosques in Spain that were turned into churches....it doesn`t really matter. people in Spain are doing fine. it`s just us desis who get idiotic about religious issues.

Ah back to the shameless subcontinental obsessions with god! Is Chowk going to become a spiritual goody goody site?

Please for God`s sake and for the sake of Pakistan and India, leave your gods at home .. and give up this obsession with them.. these festivals, these religious ceremonies, these janam bhoomis, these sufi saints, this goody goody feeling that you crave... this so religious diversity... all this is the first and foremost cause of dissent and division....

Keep the spiritual out of the Worldly. Spiritual IS BAD.. Spiritual IS EVIL! Spiritual SUX!

[``When we finally settled back in our cars to go back home, I started feeling very empty, somewhat disappointed at what I have seen there``]

Dont worry Mona, the demolition of the mosque in Mathura is also the national will of Indian people very much like the demolition of Babri Mosque. How can the birthplace of krishna be less important than the birthplace of rama? If some mosques are defiling their birthplaces then these must go. If Indian muslims have a problem with the demolition then they must go too! 5000 thousand muslims killed for ayodhya, another 5000 for mathura, hey!! whats the big deal?

The only thing that is troubling me is that since you guys have a million or so gods, and since their birthplaces are surely defiled by mosques or other muslim structures in the vicinity, and since its your national will to restore the sanctity of all the birthplaces.... you will run out of muslims to burn at the rate of 5000 per god`s birthplace.