I am Ashamed and I Apologize

Tahmed: ``So, I hereby switch off those pictures from my mind.``

I would rather have them circulate in my head, particularly the one of that old woman with her mouth open, skin burnt - yet hair intact.

Such acts put everything in perspective. If I find myself gettin too happy or angry and some petty sh1t, I should be reminded that there`s people who go through hell on earth.

That being said, If anyone in India is reading this: If a state is unable or unwilling to protect its people, it is the duty of the citizens to do so. Organize yaselves, find the people in those pics and hack them up.

I agree with you Mr.Varama that Muslims in India can hand over the disputed land and most of the problems will be solved. This is a good practical solution but unfortunately many will not agree to it on idealist grounds and will tag it as ``against their principals``.

Once Ayodhya issue is resolved there will be few and smaller issues left with VHP etc to inject hatred for Muslims.

It is also unfortunate that there are very few muslims who try to find fault with themselves.

I am supporting this only because I see it as a possible practical solution to solve the problem.

And as far as Ram goes I think he is not worth worshipping. He`s wrong role model and hindu texts present him as role model. I really wonder how people can be educated and still have pathetic wisdom.

But then, that`s my personal opinion.

Mr Varma

[So when Muslims agree to Ayodhaya, Kashi and Mathura, it does not mean a defeat, most certainly not. It actually proves a generosity and large-heartedness that strengthens them as much as it satisfies the Hindu community`s desires on these three cases.]

- You have no right under the present circumstances to even say this. No matter what the rights and wrongs behind these issues, you have no right to ask for magnanimity now. It was the responsibility of Hindus to be magnanimous to Muslims, to extend the hand of friendship so a mutual peaceful arrangement could be made. To quote you, to ``prove a generosity and large heartedness``. Instead Babri Masjid got run over and destroyed by an army of thugs unleashed by hate filled demagogues. It is Advani and his dogs that blew it, big time. You blame them and nobody else. I give it a body count of around 6000 since that fateful day. If an educated man like you cannot see what has been happening and who the real culprits are, I despair totally.

Hysteria hysteria hysteria. How can a religion and people that comprises 90% of India be under threat? Power hungry ba5tard5 with their hands dripping in blood.

I have an idea. Lets prosecute every single person involved in all communal rioting in India. Throw all those culpable in jail and where neccessary hang them publicly. Recompense all those affected by rioting. Show contrition for what has happened and set up war crimes tribunals to prosecute the ring leaders. Then after a suitable period of time we can approach the Muslim community again and ask their permission to engage in discussion over these things. But to even bring up the issue after a systematic campaign of genocide has been carried out recently by those working in the name of Ram is an obscenity.

-h-

DRUMZ

Say what you want about the white man, he has at least created in countries like Canada the UK and the USA societies which are quantifiable as civilised. India is an absolute joke. Equivocation, excuses and lies. India stinks to high heaven as long as Hindu terrorists can get away with things like that scot free. I cannot see it changing, there are too many leaders and apologists of pogroms and communal massacres all over the Indian body politic. I reckon Congress and the BJP have a back-room pact saying we will not stir up troule for your pogromists if you dont stir up trouble for ours, nudge nudge wink wink. And it carries on. Now I am being told to support a government whose leadership tacitly condoned these acts, to follow them into a war in order to ``stamp out terrorism``. All in the name of INDIA. Because only they are INDIA and if you dont follow them you are a traitor and so on. In my opinion INDIA lies in the charred and sliced up bodies of those photographs. What we are witnessing is a man bent double eating out his own stomach cannibalising himself. It makes me want to weep.

God help India.

Reply Romair # 20

“Why didn`t the parties in the NDA leave the coalition? That is something I haven`t yet figured out.”

1 Benefits of being part of the coalition include a very generous central contribution (in various forms) to the State exchequer – Telegu Desam, for example, relies on the Central Govt to fund (either via grant or debt forgiveness, whatever) many of its projects (populist or otherwise) in Andhra Pradesh. (International Airport, subsidised rice for the rice for work program…) Naidu made outraged noises about Gujarat, because AP has a large Muslim population whose votes he has gotten in the past, and whose votes he wants to keep, but in the end he stayed in the NDA (and failed to vote to censure the Govt for Gujarat) because he needs Central Govt support to implement his programs. He probably made the calculation that what he does for the State (which is considerable) combined with his grandstanding would keep him (enough) Muslim votes in Andhra to ensure his winning the next election.

2 The secular parties in the NDA are in direct competition with the Congress – they are competing for the votes of the same secular-minded section of the population. Bringing the BJP down at this point would strengthen the Congress as the only other national alternative, ie it would give their direct competitors a boost. Keep in mind that 14 of the States currently already have Congress Governments (though that could soon be 13, with Maharashtra looking iffy). This is the same reason that Congress and Telegu Desam are unlikely to form a State level coalition – the chance of a movement of votes from one to the other is something neither of them is willing to risk. (Another eg: Congress refusing to join forces with Mulayam Singh Yadav.) Congress is also secular, but for that very reason it is their great competitor.

“But, the other parties seem to have supported the Ahmadabad massacre, by sticking with the BJP. Aren`t they afraid to lose their vote bank? If not, then wouldn`t that indicate that all of NDA (not just BJP) isn`t too pushed about the Ahmadabad massacre.”

Politicians’ GREAT OBSESSION is not morality or justice, but power.

“Also, what is the mental state of the Indian Muslims? Are the fearful?”

Absolutely.

“Are they living a normal life?”

In Gujarat definitely not. In Bangalore yes. So it varies from place to place. In Delhi, where my parents are, life is continuing as normal, but people are tense – not so much immediately because of communal tensions – that is at the back of people’s minds, but Delhi tends not to experience much Hindu-Muslim violence (touch wood) – but the nuclear possibility is making people edgy. This seems to be the dominant pattern in most of the country and the metros (though Maharashtra/Bombay are definitely more communally tense).

“Are they afraid of the BJP turning India on its head?”

Absolutely. (So are many Hindus.)

“Are they indifferent to the current social developments in India?”

Impossible, how could we be? The social/political struggle over India (will we be religiously defined nation, will we be a secular nation with all equal, what does it mean to be Indian, how will we define the core) touches on Indian Muslims (and many others) very sharply. Nobody wants Gujarat to be repeated, everybody fears that it might be.

“Any objective Indian opinion will be appreciated.”

Did my best.

Regards

Reply Subroto # 12

``Dey Allah kay naam baba…"

Very sharp.

Drumz #31 These have to be among the most horrible pictures I have seen in my life (and I have seen pictures of violence before). The pictures of the jeering young men who burnt these people to death were particularly repulsive. I agree that for these animals to be not arrested, or even stopped as they went about their ghastly business, reminds one of the animals who run the Gujrat government and the animals who are part of BJP in Delhi.

All I can say is that it is not my problem. Since my problems are only those problems that I can solve. And there is nothing you or I can do, and I certainly would not use this as a chance to stand up on a moral pedestal and start preaching. So, I hereby switch off those pictures from my mind.

Tathagat 11/27/2000

Appa DeepO bhava

... fresh n young cabinet... ha...!!! me American friend had commented on Bush Admn... saying he has more blacks in his Administration than their votes he got... and now two years on he got a first muslim in his cabinet (while they r in majority in here, 180 millions... and the Indian polity has been behaving with them as if they had all their share in the form of Paakistaan)...

(on NDTV NewsHour) u do represent muslims Shahnawaaz... as much as farooQ represent kaashmiris... lol... just a new ornament... a feather in the gobar... lol... the old ornament kambakHt Lickinder... content selling off Maruti... having made enuff moolah... n too tired to discharge his duty as mantri has retired tired eternally....

(Baazi.com commercial is on... baboons can`t just have an orgasm... for that matter can`t even fake one properly... another commercial (jaguar) also a poor faking attempt)...

what he tried to do is to get some articulate people... since he is tired of all his laffaazi... waakpuTta... Musharraf effect... lol... as if articulation alone can set sail his stupid and ugly govt. as his

these are kal ka chhoraas... Omar looks loony... these guys getting drunk on words... but forgets the kind of gaay chaap company they keep... a mandir building hoodlums... in loov with cowdung and cow urine... lol...

get these baboons out before they mess it up any further... these hoodlums should be derecognized... assaasin of the Mahatmaa and Killed 3000+ people after Ayodhiya... (somebody on NewsHour callled Gujaraat... as GuZraat more than thrice... lol...)... all through the day... three different channel had darjaa rhymed as darZaa... lol... Jinnah nicked and robbed India of its language... n left us 2 be baboons for good... it seems...

re: the author

``...I believe that the Ram temple should be built in Ayodhya, and the Kashi and Mathura temples should be handed over to Hindus...``

Under the current circumstances, absolutely not! Had there been no demolition of the Babri masjid, and had there been a peaceful movement that aimed to win the hearts and minds of the Muslims to ask them to voluntarily hand over any such site, rather than to terrorize them, then such a proposal could be entertained. Any such site, procured through threats, would be no different than the ones that were allegedly demolished hundreds of years ago. Surely, there are enough emotionally secure Hindus who can sleep every night without trouble if there were two or three fewer temples in India, and who do not have to perpetrate a wrong to `right` something.

ENJOY!

___________

From: www.justindian.com

June 6, 2002





Holy S/hit!

By Vijay Prashad

There is something wrong with an avoidance of the world of s/hit and labor that makes us human after all.

Yudhisthira, in the Mahabharata, tells his brethren that `I have heard that cowdung is imbued with prosperity.`` Bhishmacharya, the brave who would later be abandoned on the battlefield, recounted the story of Shri (or Laxmi), the Goddess of Wealth. Shri wished to live amongst a herd of cattle, but they rejected her. She persisted, ``I wish to live in any part of your bodies, however repulsive it may be. Indeed I wish to live even in your rectum.`` The cattle, overwhelmed by the goodness of the Goddess, replied that ``O you of great fame. We certainly wish to honor you. Live in our urine and faeces. Both of these are sacred, O Goddess.``

``By good fortune,`` Shri replied, ``you have shown me great favor. Let it be even as you say.`` (Mahabharata, Anushasana Parva, LXXXII, 21-25). Wealth, then, lived amongst faeces.

I`m reminded of this story as the furor over toilets interrupts the wealthy pursuits of the NRI world. A misguided artist, Lamar Van Dyke, created a company (Sittin` Pretty) that make, of all things, toilet seats with the images of Ganesh and Kali on the bottom of the lids. The Bharatiya Janata Party (in India) took the lead from their Jung Parivar allies in the USA and condemned the toilet seats. Pyarelal Khandelwal, of the BJP, said that Ms. Van Dyke has ``done a contemptible thing`` and that it was a direct assault on the feelings of a billion people. In the United States, the AHAD (or what had once been the American Hindu Anti-Defamation Coalition) went on the attack and Ms. Van Dyke received threats to her life.

Nirshan Perera, of rediff.com, did some savvy investigative work to find that Ms. Van Dyke is not connected (as J. P. Mathur of the BJP claimed) to any international ``Christian conspiracy.`` Indeed, he argued, that the ``toilet hullabaloo is an empty house`` (the title of his article). Ms. Van Dyke is an artist who is not unlike so many other purveyors of Indo-chic, from Madonna to the temporary tattoo artists (who use henna). From lunch boxes with calendric art of Shiva to yellow sleeveless shirts with ``Ram`` written in red - these are the emblems of Indo-chic and they pervade our major cities



CONTINUED: www.justindian.com

eunuch1

Sad but true , with a nuke pointing at you,you are going nuts. Why cannot someone argue that the Muslims are suffering because a megalomaniac pretender chose to leave them in the lurch about 50 years back

Mr. Varma,

A good start gone astray ... what you say after (3) negates what you say before.

Was Tulsidas (the contemporary of Akbar)less pious than the ``Ram Bhakts`` of today that he never cared to mention the Ayodhaya temple or lack thereof ? Did it stop the Bhakti revival from sweeping medieval India ? Is there nothing we can remember from the collective memory of the tempered alloy that is India from centuries of coexistance between Hindus and Mussalmans that will bring us togethter not apart ?

It is the burden of our enlightened (I hope) times that we do not repeat the mistakes made in a cruder time in history. We cannot bring back the Mayan and Aztec civilizations, the Dodo bird, the great indian cheetah, the aboriginals of Tasmania, the Temple of David, the library of Alexandria.

As far as Ayodhya it is a town where there are many beautiful temples already, where 5 of the Jain Tirthankars were born, where Guru Nanak Dev made a pilgramage to the Ram Temple that did exist (under the patronage of the Delhi Sultanate from the 12th to the 16th century) - the same Nanak who also made a pigramage to Mecca. For me as a Hindu this is enough.

You also say ``India does not belong only to the Hindus but only India belongs to the Hindus``

Wrong - anywhere that Hindus feel they belong belongs to the Hindus. The Earth is not that large and all of it is sacred - why limit ourselves to one piece of it ? But to claim the whole world as our home - we have to learn to share it - for it is ALL our homes and that of all those who came before us from the begining of time from the dinosaurs and before. Funny how grown ups don`t seem any more mature than my toddlers (``My Mummy, I came first`` quote from my first born).

Anyway - NOT a good bargain to trade one plot of land (or three) for the very openess and plurism of Hinduism IMHO.

``You ought to be ashamed of yourself``, said Nawab nibbling away at the bag of chips.

``ME? Now what have I done?`` I asked, cursing the day this opinionated hound came into my care. That`s right ``hound`` was what I had said and I am not going into it again, the whole story is somewhere out there on Chowk if you care to find it. In short Nawab my talking dog given to me by my Pakistani friend Ahmed now resident in Canada (the friend not the dog unfortunately).

``You shouldn`t have got the cat. You know I am allergic to them``.

``Ridiculous. You are only sulking since the cat started sleeping in your basket``.

``Am not, I only want the cat to acknowledge that this is a dog`s household. That cat has to learn that we live here by doggie rules. All it needs to do is respect my sentiments, why can`t a cat be more like a dog?``.

``Come on, you are being unreasonable. Its a nice cat, surely there is something about it that you like``.

``Well some of that cat food is not bad and I do watch Garfield on TV. Why some of my best friends have been cats. Just let the cat know that I came to this house first, return my basket and all my toys. The cat can then stay if you like``.

And upon that he promptly made for the fridge nudged open the door and started nosing around.

``So where is the cat going to sleep now?``, I asked.

``Oh put it in the kennel outside, I said I am a reasonable dog``, said he munching on the chicken as it started to pour outside.

Mr. Varma, bagal mein churri aur mu mein ram ram??

Just that the churri shows from time to time:

[I believe that the Ram temple should be built in Ayodhya, and the Kashi and Mathura temples should be handed over to Hindus.]

and

[The continuing and stiff resistance by the Muslim community to these ``demands`` is allowing the VHP and its friends to assume a position of injured pride which is slowly sanctifying their militancy and threats to violence]

So the logic is as follows: that Indian muslims should either hand over the mosques to Mr. Varma or he will unleash Fido (VHP). It is unfortunate that even though Mr. Varma is a decent and soft spoken gentelman, Fido is a vicious and half crazy pit bull who loves to munch on the Muslim bhuna gosht a la Gujurat. So Indian muslims pls. take your pick!!

All I can say is that Pakistanis should be grateful to Mr. Jinnah who created Pakistan which protects us from both Mr. Varma and his pet dog Fido. To Indian Muslims I say, Hey! Khassi Bakras, its time to stop bleating and start fighting back. The only way to beat a bully is by standing up to him. Tell Mr. Varma and Fido to go hump their cows.

http://www.genocideinindia.org/photogallery1.html

I suggest everyone look at these pics. Some of them show the people responsible for the attacks.

I come from Canada. If such an attack occured, and the attackers were photographed, they woulda been prosecuted. There would be very few stupid mufukkaz in canada simply asking for the resignation of a politician.

Canada would prosecute everyone responsible, and it is this which separates it from the joke that is India.

Since the NDN gov`t is too backwards to prosecute these people, my hope is that NDNs will take the law into their own hands.

Harimau: ``Or, is that okay because whitey is doing it?``

LOL, cuz I praise the whiteman on every post... Grudges are for children, stop hating cuz u got schooled.