Coney Al Jazeera

good progressive south asian literature...hmmm...

Definitely Qurratulain Hyder. I would also recommend poetry by Faiz Ahmad Faiz (there are translations...I`d pick the one by Agha Shahid Ali over the one by Naomi Lazard), as well as other poets like Ahmed Faraz, Kaifi Azmi, the list goes on...if you can find them in translation.

There is an anthology of progressive women poets translated into English called ``We Sinful Women``, the title is from a poem by Kishwar Naheed (if memory serves me correctly), and has poems by Kishwar Naheed, Fahmida Riaz and Sara Shagufta among others.

Rushdie`s novels..(pre-Verses)

Ismat Chughtai`s `Quilt and other stories.` as well as anything else by her.

There is an anthology called ``Blood into Ink: Middle Eastern and South Asian Women Write War.``..it has good stories, and poems by Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi writers, as well as Iranian, Afghani, Lebanese and Palestinian writers.

The list goes on, but I hope this much helps.

Now hopefully you`ll read some of these :-)

fawad!

The women`s movement in Pakistan is most certainly not dead!!!! It does face a huge amount of opposition though from the powers-that-be, in this case, not just the military, but the mullahs, the feudals, and those who are clearly not interested in a progressive society.

A good book to read regarding the women`s movement would be: ``Women of Pakistan: Two Steps Forward, One Step Back.`` (Khawar Mumtaz/Farida Shaheed, editors). It was published in 1988, so it`s not the most recent of texts, but it will certainly give you an idea of the struggles and the efforts of the women`s movement, especially in the dark ages of Zia.

re: shrinker, various #s

...no one cares...

qn for all feminist college teachers on chowk

is the women`s movement in pakistan effectively dead? i mean i dont hear anything about it ?

re:

shankar i didnt go to 6 yrs of pharmacy sch to be a sales rep............but i dont know podiatry seems good Pharmd-DPM not as good as PharmD,MD but its ok ..it cuz my little brother got into a 7 yr DO program i might end up filling his rxs loool

hey i agree with you i know a lot of desi girls and guys like your daughter and they usually are more open minded and can operate in both cultures but some of those who grew up with no desi friends this in my experince i saw the totally white washed desi guy and girls who want NOTHING TO DO with indians ........i know this one pakistani guy whose went from tariq to terry...........i know a pakistani girl who says all paki guys are ugly and smelly gee makes me feel special.............and an indian girl who says having indian friends is a sign of backwardness ........well i never made friends on the basis of race or religion my best friend was a punjabi hindu i had a good fried who was a jew and i went to an all- white catholic boys sch where i was one of the few muslims i guess ive been in an all-white and all desi society and i think ultimately you cant avoid ``groups`` you have to make friends with inviduals who share your values maybe there are indian or pakistani couples who have no gripes about social mixing ?

re ana or samina

can you please recommend some progressive good south asian literature ...i am interested in the formation of your views

just a side note to you shankar since your a konkani from bombay i know of another bombay guy hes a brown skinned guy with blue eyes is this common?

Umer,

Am quite unaware of the Syeds...p`haps you might take that up with them?

The Azra I`m referring to is of your parent`s gen.; you might know her from family functions-and she`s a bit religious. I think my khandan might be too old for you to know. Oh well. (You south asian brits are so exotic to us south asian-yanks.)

Are you a painter?

In Your Face,

{{IF YOU ADAPT .... Spoken like a true uncle Tom}}

O yeah? Then I`m a PROUD Uncle Tom! Y`see, we desis came to their country to settle down by OUR FREE WILL. Americans did`nt put a gun to our head & tell us to migrate here. Neither did they kidnap our ancestors & chain them into the bowels of slave ships & bring us here forcibly. So yes, its our civic DUTY to ADAPT to their culture, NOT the other way around.

So if you come to America, JUST for the MONEY, you are a selfish hypocrite. We HATED the British because they came to India, JUST for the MONEY. They didnt appreciate our culture, they didnt try & adapt to our ways & remained arrogantly aloof from us.

I have no problem with a desi who is proud of his/her ``mother`` culture & wants to inculcate its values to their children. But MANY of our kind go one step further. They SHELTER their kids from the American culture; as if it is an evil influence. These kids are now becoming teenagers & going to college. I`m already seeing a lot of cases of culture clashes in my practice.

I PITY these people. They lead double lives. Their body is in America; but their heart & soul is in India. Makes you wonder why the heck did they come here, in the first place? Didnt they know that the American culture is so powerful that the ``melting pot`` influence will overtake their kids? The more they shelter them, the worse the problem will get.

So, if you dont want to ``adapt``...because to ``adapt`` will GASP!!! make you an Uncle Tom!, you BETTER move your BUTT back to India..SOON!! Whether you like it or not, your children & ESP their children will become AMERICANS. If that is such a terrible thing, you shouldnt be here in the first place.

shankar #188 Some generalizations are made merely to dehumanize a community, others are made with no such intent. The former are easily recognizable since they typically portray entire communities as terrorists (as some Indian posters on chowk do about Pakistanis) or murderers (as some Pakistani posters do about Indians). By dehumanizing a community that individual is taking the first step towards becoming a terrorist or a murderer himself. Of course most such individuals will stop at this first step and never engage in killings. Nevertheless, it is such type of generalizations that I have a problem with.

The type of generalizations you make in this post are obviously made with no such intent. While, like all generalizations, these are not 100% true, that does not matter in this case. What you say is largely true (with, as always, significant exceptions) and as such I agree with what you write about desi social mixing and that Americans are among the friendliest and most caring people in the world.

shankar #188:

``If you adapt to their culture & respect their value system, they are some of the most unprejudiced humans I know.``

IF YOU ADAPT .... Spoken like a true uncle Tom!

(Dear Chowkidaars, please post this)

Howdy Samina #182,

So you`re asking me 2 questions instead of one:) This is getting good though I really do think that this is out of the computer searches;) Yep yep, I`m aware of not just one but 3 Azras. - one is my daughter…no, no, that was just a joke…I`m barely out of diapers myself.

One is a mother; one is a goirly and the third is an Iranian friend of mine. The interesting thing is that Azra is not a common name like Rehana, Farzana, Farkhanda, Kalsoom, Samina, Kavita, babita etc. etc. so I`ll admit, you do have my interest because I do know Azras and I would say I know them fairly well.

However, if you`ve been obtaining my details from the syeds, please tell them that love them as I may, their daughters are chorniyaan and they still owe me money for one of my paintings they nicked. Damn thieves; tell `em I want my frikkin` stuff back. It`s just that due to the respect I have for their parents I haven`t said anything. But please do let them know what I think of them `cos if I said something, I`d rip them apart in minutes. Just goes to show that money doesn`t make $hit lot of difference to one`s character. Fcuking baymaan thieves!

But on a lighter note, how are you? It`s a small world. No? Now your turn to give me a few names from your side. Am getting high on varnish and emulsions. Time to sniff glue.

Oh and yes, to the Chowkis and Saxena: apologies for the rudeness and stupidity. I can be unnecessarily childish sometimes.

And yes, South Park kick`s a$$!!!

Umer M.

saminashah,

{{I`m critical of the practice of many religions-obviously a belief that would get me in a lot of trouble in Pakistan.}}

What kind of trouble? Is there a kind of ``social pressure`` to behave in a certain way..otherwise it reflects on one`s family honor, or deviates from what your religion teaches?? I hope I`m not sticking my neck out by making that assumption.

One observation I made in interaction with Indians in the US..I think it applies to Pakistanis too. (tahmedji; dont get mad because I`m ``generalising``)..because if it is just my prejudice, I`m absolutely open to change my views..

There is a certain way to talk & behave in ``mixed company`` in ``traditional`` India. In fact, what is considered ``good manners`` is very subtly & but distinctly different from Western ``manners``. It is a complex system . For eg; what pisses my wife & I is that if you go to a large Indian dinner party or gathering of any sort; the men & women socialise separtely. Men go to one room & women go to another! My wife & I part company after being greeted by the host at the door...

My wife, particularly hates it, because she is made to feel ``left out``. She says all that these women will talk about recipies & kids & sometimes will revert to their mother tongue in mid-sentence, even when she`s part of the conversation. My wife lived between US & Bombay since the age of 8 & she doesnt understand a WORD of any South Indian language, probably can understand 50% of spoken hindi & 90% of konkani, but cant speak it to save her life....So she feels like a fish out of water & then desparately looks out for SOMEBODY in the crowd of saris who either grew up here or an American wife of an Indian.

So nowadays, we mainly socialise with Americans, who dont have that kind of ``hang-ups``. In my personal experience, its a fallacy to think ``ordinary Americans wont accept you``. If you adapt to their culture & respect their value system, they are some of the most unprejudiced humans I know.

My 16yr old daughter doesnt have any Indian friends her age & NEVER in her lifetime has she ever experienced any prejudice because of the color of her skin. In fact, ``miss social butterfly`` is complimented & envied for her ``permanent tan`` by her friends:) It is INDIANS who prefer to interact with their own kind & congregate in ``desi diasporas``...& project their prejudice on Americans & claim ``americans are prejudiced!``

In the particular diaspora of Bombay that I grew up in; middle class Indian families, regardless of religion, interacted with both sexes, socially. The phenomena of ``love marriage`` is becoming more prevalent than ``arranged marriage``; with several intercaste & inter-religious marriages. My 3 brothers are not married to same caste (2 have married outside their religion). I`m the only ``chump``, who married a brahmin konkani girl, (we THOUGHT ours was a love marriage; but later found out that our set of parents had secretly ``conspired`` to bring us together):)

Fortunately, my folks, eventhough very devout hindu brahmins themselves, have never objected to their sons marrying girls of their choice. My grandfather was very great religo-political follower of Gandhi .When he was head of the family, he announced that it is time for brahmins to reform themselves. He was completely taken by Gandhi`s message that humans should use religion to bring societies TOGHETHER, NOT separate them.

So I had my first taste of beef steak when I was 8 yrs old & have loved it since. If anyone calls a cow, my mother; or my mother, a cow; will be kicked in the balls:). You know the BEST thing about Hinduism is?..if any goddamned purohit or pujari says were not ``true hindus`` will get kicked in the balls..right through their frikking dhotis...

Who the HELL defines ``good manners`` anyways?...ESP to those of us who are setlled in the West BECAUSE we admire a lot of Western values & willing to accept the best that it can offer..That DOESNT mean we accept everything thats wrong in Western society. It may come as a TOTAL shock to many of you...but white middle class America (in my 21 yrs of personal experience) shares the SAME family values of human decency & behavior as the ``holier-than-thou`` desis...with a much broader mind to boot...

Sometimes I think Bombay (at least the diaspora I grew up in) is much more ``progressive`` than the rest of India. Thats the beauty of sending your children to Catholic schools in Bombay..you get to interact with people of all faiths & dont believe the West is an evil culture...

BA BA BLACKSHEEP!! HAH! I wear THAT badge with PRIDE!!

tahmed,

{{But Nagnatheshwar (sp?) does not seem to be 12-head I think. The style is too different.}}

O YES, he is!!

rsaxena,

{{...apologies for that sis crack...wasn`t good...}}

Jesus.H.Christ!! You actually have a conscience! Beta, this is the first time you`ve amazed me! Please dont do it too often; I may actually get to like you as a person...ugh!..thats an awful thought....

Samina Shah;

Discuss the mechanics and motivations behind this spurious concept of gender? Will I ever! Anything to relieve our brothers and sisters of the evil deadweight such invidious comparisons generate. (Aagh! I`m doing it again!)

Mrs Shah, if you`ll allow me, you enjoy an exceptionally generous mind and it would be a pleasure to discuss whatever with you. As someone said recently, issi bahanay mera zehan bhar jaega. Incidentally, would you like to correspond? I can be found at pediatrishun@yahoo.com

Aamir (two A`s)

re: Stuka

...south park?...whoa..what would your leftist wellesley friends from the candle-holding peace rallies in copley square say if they knew you watched south park?...

samina,

{{would you recommend anti depressants for elderly people who have heart disease and tend to be immobile?}}

ABSOLUTELY! The newer class of antidepressants are very user friendly & safe for the heart. There is a lot of data in the literature that depression is rampant in the elderly & it NEEDS to be treated vigorously. Several studies have shown that 60-70% of nursing home residents fulfill criteria for major depression--& ,hence, antidepressant treatment.

There is a great misconception in the mind of society, in general, :``Oh... he/she is old & in poor health; so he/she`s BOUND to be depressed``. No matter what the cause, there are specific criteria for the diagnosis of major depression..& if the patient meets them , then treatment should be promptly instituted..

er..that`ll be 90 bucks..please:)..more so cuz i`m mad at you gals for arranging a social gathering & POINTEDLY not including any guys from Chowk...i mean ..what are we?..chopped liver or something...?:(

fawad,

I dont want to sound like a carrier counsellor; but have you thought of a career in a pharamaceutical co? Its very interesting work & if youre good, you can rise very quickly up the corporate ladder...or is that not your cup`a `tea.