The Right To Bigotry

ana

,,,, trust me its ok i FEEL the same way ...will i ever meet a girl? am i gonna single for the rest of my life? i dont know . too bad !!! i once heard a comedian describe being single like this---`` being single can be described as being lonely when u get to sleep , but when u get up the rest of the day:euphoria ``

is this true for you ?

if i ever meet a good , desi guy ill send him ur way ...........but i suspect most desi guys are intimidated by independant -minded feminists so i dont know :)

Reply # 181 Umer Murtaza

[``Dear Samina,

Dost Mittar is 60-64. Are you really that old?``]

No, just desperate.

Ref 12-headed-snake-with-ineffective-venom #: 182

[I dont knw anyone MORE bigot than Harami OU

``.....ross a Bengali Communist with a Kerala Communist: left-wing apologists who will justify the Tien An Men Square massacre.....``

That os true Arundhati was fathered by Bengali in Teab Plantation area of North Bengal but it would be height of generalisation to call a Manager Communist.....

THATS CALLED making A$$ ..u..&.ME (ASSUME)

He also knows Kerala is Communist majority state several elections but her mother mary roy a non resident Keralite is not communist .

What happens when you have HARAMIU ..assumptions .........assumptions....... assumptins]

A. Roy walked out of her home and stayed in the slums of Calcutta during her college days for about 18 months. Maybe that is where she picked up her leanings toward the left. But what passes for intellectual discourse among the bhadralok of Bengal is nothing but discussions on the merits of Maoism vs Marxism.

So there!

Ref hobbes #: 177

[Quite unlike the mix of hindu facist who justify the massacres in gujjrat.]

I don`t need lectures on tolerance from those who justify Sept 11, the blowing up of Bamiyan Buddhas, the massacre in East Timor, the destruction of civil society in Afghanistan, killing people for saying Pr. M might have have had hairy armpits, forcible conversion to The True Faith, gang rape as punishment for seeing a girl, and a whole host of activities that cannot even remotely be construed as tolerant.

Dear Ashok,

Disappointed??? Yeah, matey. I`m down in the dumps now. ha ha ha. No, I really am. You`ve heard tears of joy. Ha ha ha, well that was laughter of sadness. There I was thinking she was a young `purrie`. Oh the pain…

Thank you for reminding me about the whole female - age shenanigan. I can`t believe I actually forgot that. Just goes to show I`m barely 12.

Umer M.

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YLH # 169

YOu have described ARoy as a brilliant intellectual , pray where would VS Naipaul stand in your evaluation.

Thanks

MT

#: 172

harimau

Ref ylh #: 169

[Harimau,

Why such latent hatred for A-roy?

She is a brilliant intellectual and is not necessarily pro-Pakistan or pro-China as you might make her out to be.]

Arundhati Roy is what you get when you cross a Bengali Communist with a Kerala Communist: left-wing apologists who will justify the Tien An Men Square massacre.



Here is a classical example of BIGOTARY the title of this thread

I dont knw anyone MORE bigot than Harami OU

``.....ross a Bengali Communist with a Kerala Communist: left-wing apologists who will justify the Tien An Men Square massacre.....``

That os true Arundhati was fathered by Bengali in Teab Plantation area of North Bengal but it would be height of generalisation to call a Manager Communist & only b/c this Harami only know from bengal that CPM is the majority for last 17 years

THATS CALLED making A$$ ..u..&.ME (ASSUME)

He also knows Kerala is Communist majority state several elections but her mother mary roy a non resident Keralite is not communist .

What happens when you have HARAMIU ..assumptions .........assumptions....... assumptins

Dear Samina,

Dost Mittar is 60-64. Are you really that old?

re: hobbyty

{Quite unlike the mix of hindu facist who justify the massacres in gujjrat.}

...and definitely not quite unlike the modern-day barbarians who justify jehadi terrorism calling it `freedom struggle`...

fawad

[ps i know you dont want to be viewed as objects but hey its human nature !!!!! know any nice ,single dokhtars send them my way :)]

Human nature ki aisi ki taisi! You just thank your lucky stars that I am a forgiving femme, otherwise.... :) !!!!!

And what`s this? Me, send nice, single dokhtars your way? Only if they can teach you a thing or two or more...(including making chelo kebab, or kofta curry, or wotever, and more importantly..equality amigo equality)!!! And what`s this again? Ever heard that phrase..`always a bridesmaid, never a bride?` Is my role now to be `always a matchmaker and never a match?????` Chalo.. a new role to embrace with gusto!!!! NOT :)

love, ana.

re: spout

{please leave ylh alone....pick on someone ur own age. damn bully.}

...how about i toss a candy your way and you stop meddling in other people`s business?...

``Arundhati Roy is what you get when you cross a Bengali Communist with a Kerala Communist: left-wing apologists who will justify the Tien An Men Square massacre.``

Quite unlike the mix of hindu facist who justify the massacres in gujjrat.

re: ylh

{`Pakistan is geographically too thin a country to have daylight savings time`}

...want to provide a link or reference to where that was said?...i didn`t think so...full of $hit, as usual...no wonder you weren`t able to keep yourself from getting deported....

Dost Mittar,

I think I am closer in age to you and your wife than your daughter...but she sounds like Your daughter more than anything :) I am forever thankful to my parents for being honest about culture, identity and religion.

ana



i am doin my internship in a pharmaceutical comp....this place is great Bms has a cappucino machine on every floor with all blends of cofee.........its all free

ps i know you dont want to be viewed as objects but hey its human nature !!!!! know any nice ,single dokhtars send them my way :)

love

fawad

raveena #166,

please leave ylh alone....pick on someone ur own age. damn bully.

Ref ylh #: 169

[Harimau,

Why such latent hatred for A-roy?

She is a brilliant intellectual and is not necessarily pro-Pakistan or pro-China as you might make her out to be.]

Arundhati Roy is what you get when you cross a Bengali Communist with a Kerala Communist: left-wing apologists who will justify the Tien An Men Square massacre.

ylh:

``PS I will write a comprehensive account of her lecture at Lahore...``

...guess i`ll see you there:)...

PS to Ana,

``I know, Cowasjee never fails to remind us of what Jinnah said, but how many of us are really listening--those words are dead to them.``

You are listening aren`t you? and I am? and many more... believe me the 80s are being slowly buried.. and our cherished words are coming alive once again... it has taken very long .. but it is happening.



-YLH

Ana,

Alright... point taken. I misunderstood your statement...

Harimau,

Why such latent hatred for A-roy?

She is a brilliant intellectual and is not necessarily pro-Pakistan or pro-China as you might make her out to be.

Dear sweet Rsaxena,

Whatever statements I allegedly made, or you think I made, or you claim I made don`t hold a candle to this following one:

`Pakistan is geographically too thin a country to have daylight savings time`

Any bets for what saxena is going to mention next?

Happy Independence day(s) in advance to all Chowkies.

Love

YLH

Gujarat 2002

Comes Straight out of the RSS’s ‘Heart Of Darkness’

What is needed is a permanent challenge to the parivar’s activities

The Godhra incident was not the reason of why the rest of Gujarat went up in flames. Nor was it the reason of why Muslims, especially women and children, have been hunted down. Godhra was simply an occasion, the excuse for what has been happening in Gujarat for four months now, just as September 11 was not the reason but the occasion for launching of the ‘international war against terror’.

A slew of reasons have been put forward. But the main reason is just one: State involvement. Godhra was an excuse for butchery binged against Muslims. Gujarat 2002 comes straight out of the RSS’s ‘heart of darkness’. It was RSS go ahead signal. For the first time in the history of Independent India a State openly participated and justified the massacre of innocent law abiding citizens.

Time and again the RSS anti-Muslim agenda in particular and anti-minorities agenda in general is reflected in the findings of several judicial commissions that have probed communal troubles. For instance, the Jaganmohan Reddy Commission probing the Ahmedabad riots of 1969 stated that the ``agitation had received the blessings of the local Bharatiya Jan Sangh workers who did not want to involve themselves directly but suggested the formation of an organisation known as the Hindu Dharma Raksha Samiti... with an old RSS worker as its convenor.``

Similarly, the Jitendra Narain Commission of Inquiry into the Jamshedpur riots of 1979 stated that the ``commission is of the view that the RSS, with its extensive organisation in Jamshedpur and. close links with the Jan Sangh and the Bharatiya Mazdoor Sangh had a positive hand in creating a climate which was most propitious for the outbreak of the communal disturbances.``

The Venugopal Commission on the Hindu-Christian disturbances in Kanyakumari in 1982 said: ``The RSS adopts a militant and aggressive attitude and sets itself up as the champion of what it considers to be the rights of the Hindus against minorities....``

The RSS methodology for provoking communal violence is: rousing communal feelings in the majority community by the propaganda that Muslims are not loyal citizens of this country; deepening the fear in the majority community by a clever propaganda that the Muslim population is increasing and that of the Hindus decreasing; and infiltrating into the administration and developing communal attitudes.

Views such as these are reinforced at the ground level by the other organisations within the Sangh parivar like the VHP and Bajrang Dal, both of which were held responsible by the National Commission for Minorities and other independent fact-finding teams, for the recent riots in Gujarat. It has to be said in their favour, however, that none of these organisations has ever deviated from their views. They are quite clear in their view that India is a Hindu rashtra where the minorities must accept the ‘culture’ of the majority. It is the BJP, which has been hedging its bets. Because of political compulsions, it has always been less abrasive than the other, more outspoken outfits of the parivar.

Prof. Paul R. Brass, a scholar of repute who has done field research in India for decades, explains in his mini-classic Theft of an Idol (1997): ``Riot specialists are specialists in the conversion of incidents into the relations between the communities, in this case between Hindus and Muslims, into occasions for riots. When the time is right for the fomenting of a large-scale disturbance, then students, hooligans, low-caste persons from slums and outlying areas, criminals, and special squads of trained activists such as the members of the Bajrang Dal, will be brought in. According to social scientists, riots need, as a necessary condition, organisations that plot mass killings with governmental support. Which are the organisations that plot mass killings is an open secret.

The Sangh parivar wants the nation to believe that what is happening in Gujarat is nothing but the manifestation of the sentiments of the Hindus. Nothing else can be farther from the truth. The Gujarat carnage was in no way an isolated or spontaneous manifestation of the Hindu sentiments as claimed by Hindutva forces. In reality it was the outcome of the hate Muslim campaign conducted by the Hindutva brigade under various pretexts. Ayodhya movement spearheaded by the RSS cousin VHP had been exploited to spread the hate Muslim campaign throughout the country.

Prior to Gujarat carnage the BJP and VHP leaders through anti-Muslim speeches vitiated the country atmosphere. Throughout its more than 70-year existence, the RSS has been associated with communal riots and virulent anti-Muslim violence. The organisation was founded in 1925. The Sangh Parivar remained largely in the shadows during the struggle for Independence. Since Independence it has sought to overcome that ignominy through one stratagem or the other. The RSS first emerged as a mass organisation during the horrific communal violence that surrounded the 1947 partition of the Indian subcontinent. The principal ideologues of Hindu rashtra, the RSS leader M.S. Golwalkar and V.D. Savarkar (head of a like-minded communal political party, the Hindu Mahasabha) draw direct inspiration from Nazi Germany. ``Germany has ... shown,`` writes Golwalkar, ``how well-nigh impossible it is for races and cultures, having differences going to the root, to be assimilated into one united whole – a good lesson for us in Hindusthan to learn and profit by.``

Time and again it has taken to the streets, or used state power, to demand a total ban on cow slaughter, stop religious conversions, revise history text-books to ensure that they upheld ‘Indian’ culture, emphasised, with just a hint of compulsion, the need to study Sanskrit, astrology, Vedic mathematics, yoga, ayurveda and other ‘Indian’ subjects and, when shove came to push, gone about intimidating the minorities and vandalising their places of worship.

It is an article of faith with the RSS-BJP that India’s religious minorities do not have a legitimate, independent identity. The BJP’s election manifesto (1998) is unambiguous: ``The BJP is committed to the concept of One Nation, One People and One Culture... Our nationalist vision is not merely bound by the geographical or political identity of Bharat but it is referred by our timeless cultural heritage. This cultural heritage which is central to all regions, religions and languages, is a civilizational identity and constitutes the cultural nationalism of India which is the core of Hindutva.`` For the BJP, ``Shri Ram lies at the core of Indian consciousness.``

For the Sangh Parivar, Muslims, Christians and Sikhs have an identity only as some kind of sub-sects of Hindus. As the Union HRD Minister Murli Manohar Joshi put it: ``Hindu Rashtra`` is ``the basic culture of this country. Sangh Parivar says that all Indian Muslims are Mohammadiya Hindus; all Indian Christians are Hindus. They are Hindus who have adopted Christianity and Islam as their religion.``

According to RSS leader Sudarshan: ``If Muslims have to stay in India, they will have to submit to the Indianisation of their religion. It is time they thought of preserving only the essential 10 per cent and did away with the other 90 per cent of their religion incorporating in its stead elements of Indian culture.`` Thus the Sangh Parivar is trying to terrorise the religious minorities. Its threat is directed at the minorities within the majority too, at those who do not practise the sanatana dharma that Hindutva advocates.

This is a menace to India’s pluralism, surely one of its greatest assets. To this day, the life of the estimated 40,000 RSS cells or shakhas revolves around a daily martial arts drill, in which youth, from their early teens on, are schooled in fighting and taught complete obedience to their RSS superiors.

What is needed is a permanent challenge to the parivar’s activities. The Sangh Parivar succeeded in its strategy in Gujarat because it met with no challenge in the cultural or political arena. Whatever anti-Hindutva opposition there was in Gujarat came in the form of old-guard Congress leaders who neither made efforts to consolidate the existing social traditions of Gujarat, nor tried to counter the multi-pronged strategy of the parivar to ‘integrate’ the Hindus. It is probably too late to affect a reversal. But there is still time.

Before it’s too late citizens of this great nation must raise and say enough is enough. Since common Hindus and Common Muslims do not have any problem living peacefully with each other, they should unitedly expose the trap laid by the Hindutva brigade.

hobbes #155 I cut and paste what you wrote to excuse these murderers of these three female nurses. Finding yourself exposed as an apologist for terrorists, you tell me you have had it with me. I am sure you have. You have had it with truth and common decency as well. This is your Islam!

re: ylh

...i don`t need to insult you...you do a wonderful job of that yourself, what with one asinine statement after another...

...claiming to be the descendent of the prophet is YOUR statement, not mine...saying your daddy offered you a job so the paki economy must be great is YOUR statement, not mine...

..tsk tsk tsk...

Ref ylh #: 158

[Arundhati Roy is on her Pakistan Tour this independence day...

The topic is : Freedom and Peace

PS I will write a comprehensive account of her lecture at Lahore...]

Don`t bother. Here it is:

Nuclear weapons are bad. All nukes must be destroyed. Except those held by China because China is a peace-loving nation.

The Sardar Sarovar dam should be stopped because it displaces 1 million people.

The Three Gorges Dam in China is a glorious accomplishment of the brave Chinese people. If 50 million people are displaced, that is a small sacrifice willingly given by the brave Chinese people.

Blah, blah, blah.

PS. Don`t let my summary prevent you from going to the lecture. You will lap it up.

fawad..

news flash: Starbucks has always been a `yuppie status symbol` as you put it. :)

But to be fair to Starbucks (if that is possible), they do charge less for the Grande Americano that I order than most of the Torrefaziones I go to. Although I have found a Torrefazione that does charge less than two bucks, yay! But then Torrefazione perhaps caters to an `elite` crowd as well...what to do..buy my own espresso maker?!?

I went to the India festival here yesterday..so many desis..and I thought if you were here, little one, your eyes would be popping far out of those sockets..lots of `aakh jaan` dokhtars. But in teasing you about this, I run the risk of offending my fellow femmes, who like me, don`t want to be gazed upon as objects. Khair, I simply point this out to you to observe the diverse beauty of the sistahs who surrounded me.

And your mentioning KEMC reminds me of when I used to go visit my Khala who lived on McLeod Road, and if went and hung out on the top of the roof, we could see the rooftops of KEMC male hostels. We`d see some of them often, walking back and forth, wearing down the floor, or the ceilings of the rooms below them! And some of them were quite desperate. The stories my female cousins told me.....!!!

ylh..

hmmm...issi liye mein tum se ab baat nahin zyada karti. Perhaps had I put a bezillion exclamation points beside that phrase, then just maybe I would have gotten the point across that I was teasing you..and that I also think the `enemy` is more within than without. Aur tum? itna ghussa? Khair...fikr not mere laal, I don`t expect you to say things to please me..I expect you to speak your mind, which you do. I may not always agree with what you say, or how you say it, but please, don`t ever think that I want you to say things to please me. I don`t expect that from anyone on this Chowk! :)

Of course I`m more than a little cynical. If you lived in this world as long as I have, and have seen, and heard the things that I have, then maybe, just maybe you`d be kinda cynical too. I lost my rose-colored glasses a loooong time ago. `nyways..I know, Cowasjee never fails to remind us of what Jinnah said, but how many of us are really listening--those words are dead to them.

I hope you all do succeed in making society a vehicle of change. Have fun in Lahore, and don`t let it go to the kuttas, nahin tau fawad and I will have to come back and make chapli kabab out of you!!!! (and i really was teasing this time)

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ana

i want to share something with you my father and mother who grew up in pakistan have no intention of returning me , who has had 1 bad experience in pakistan (dropping out of KEMC) still fanatasizes about living out my old age in some village in the Northern Areas ......i guess those of us who are intrigued by pakistan will always be ..................

ps why the hell do people 5 bucks to have a cup of cofee at starbucks its sort of a yuppie staus symbol now

ana,

i saw this really cute blue bus on the street, it said `indo-pak church of nazareth`...it really struck me for some reason....

i think muslims could learn a thing or two from people of other faiths if we just opened our minds.

ANNOUNCEMENT...

Arundhati Roy is on her Pakistan Tour this independence day...

She speaks

@ Islamabad on 14th August

@ Lahore on 15th August

@ Karachi on 16th August

The topic is : Freedom and Peace

arranged by Najam Sethi`s team.

I have already written the email addresses on Umair Raja Board where you can get your invitations and details of these events...

-YLH

PS I will write a comprehensive account of her lecture at Lahore...

ana,

``kya rhetoric jhara hai tum ne.yes, Musharraf must definitely take a firmer stand on the increasing violence against women and minorities.``

Sorry to see that you are so cynical, but I don`t blame you. I have a very vivid self interest when I say what I say and what seems to you to be simply rhetoric... My self interest is to see my country succeed, and in order to do so, the minorities of Pakistan have to succeed... Pakistani christians have played a great role in fields of education, health, armed forces, and more recently sports.. they are the best Pakistanis there are and their success is Pakistan`s success... Whenever Pakistanis like those nurses die, a part of me dies. And if you think this rhetoric, its your fault.

Please take it out of your head that I would say anything to please you. What happened that day and before that, and what happened to Ayub Masih, and that Bishop who committed suicide, and that young boy who was sentenced to death for blasphemy... are of great concern to me. You wrote about Jinnah`s 11th August speech `Those words are as dead now as he is.` Well that is precisely the reason why people like Ardeshir Cowasjee keep reminding the nation of those historic words (and they were not the only words by the way)... I will repeat those words, and many will join in, until the entire Pakistani society becomes a vehicle of change...



As Does COWASJEE... So DO I...

``No nation can rise to the height of glory unless your women are side by side with you. We are victims of evil customs. It is a crime against humanity that our women are shut up within the four walls of their houses as prisoners. There is no sanction anywhere for the deplorable conditions in which our women have to live. You should take your women along with you as comrades in every sphere of life.`` (1944)

``The new state would be a modern democratic state with sovereignty resting in the people and the members of the new nation having equal rights of citizenship regardless of their religion, caste or creed.``(May 1947)

``Minorities DO NOT cease to be citizens. Minorities living in Pakistan or Hindustan do not cease to be citizens of their respective states by virtue of their belonging to particular faith, religion or race. I have repeatedly made it clear, especially in my opening speech to the constituent Assembley, that the minorities in Pakistan would be treated as our citizens and will enjoy all the rights as any other community. Pakistan SHALL pursue this policy and do all it can to create a sense of security and confidence in the Non-Muslim minorities of Pakistan. We do not prescribe any school boy tests for their loyalty. We shall not say to any Hindu citizen of Pakistan `if there was war would you shoot a Hindu?``` (October 1947)





``You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State. As you know, history shows that in England, conditions, some time ago, were much worse than those prevailing in India today. The Roman Catholics and the Protestants persecuted each other. Even now there are some States in existence where there are discriminations made and bars imposed against a particular class. Thank God, we are not starting in those days. We are starting in the days where there is no discrimination, no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State. The people of England in course of time had to face the realities of the situation and had to discharge the responsibilities and burdens placed upon them by the government of their country and they went through that fire step by step. Today, you might say with justice that Roman Catholics and Protestants do not exist; what exists now is that every man is a citizen, an equal citizen of Great Britain and they are all members of the Nation. Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State.`` (August 1947)

This is the pledge WE made to History. It is time we lived upto our word.

Ladies and gentlemen

``re: ylh

...bleat, bleat, bleat, o great descendent of the prophet.....``

There you have it. Those who bet on Rsaxena`s mention of the Prophet won hands down. I am surprised at the sheer monotony of these petty insults ... no creativity.

-YLH

Tahmed

I have had it with you. My writing and my opinion need not conform to your idea of what is to be said and how it is be said - Keep your reserve and I will keep mine.

hobbes #151 I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, not apologizing. This is what you had written about the brutal killing of three nurses in Pakistan, and wounding of others: ``We`re all with you on that one Ana - that`s not us, or at least, not most of us. This isn`t about Muslims or Christians or Parsees or martians - it`s about creating problems for Mr. Musharraf`s government.

Read the last part, and that clearly is an excuse for that brutal act of terrorism against a group of female nurses. Despite this, I accepted you at your word when you said this is not what you meant. Given the spirit in which you have treated my response, I think I will take back the benefit of the doubt. I can only say I am appalled at this response, and was deluding myself in thinking that you regretted your response (about which the less said the better) to this murder.

shammi #148 The chicken that the generals` sent to Afghanistan and Kashmir have indeed come home to roost.

Tahmed

You have done this on several occasions. Have I ever misrepresented you? ``Just forget about it`` is a hardly an apology and it`s a disappointment that you are unwilling to demonstrate an integrity and civility, you so often call on others to demonstrate.

Shankar: I Remember after musharrafs terrorism speech how some guy made a thread on musharraf being so brave and going down in history...

Hes a coward and a fool like ALL the rest.

...ana…since i can’t imagine the tumult of emotions you must be going through, i won’t try…but please rest assured that there are people in pakistan (and i’m talking about almost everyone barring the odd jihadi aficionado here and there) who are as outraged/sickened as you are over these attacks…but…we talk about it….shake our heads…curse…and then….nothing…what will it take for us to unite and stand up against these rabid jihadis?…when ppl we know and love start dying?…sigh…here, i share your pessimism….

Shankar to Romair:

``...Maybe the official military spokesman on Chowk, Feild Marshall Romair, should shed some light on how well Mushy is handling this problem...``

Do you recall how F.M. Romair used to chirp that the military could `take out` these militant groups `anytime they wanted`? Well, now that the `freedom struggle` has begun earnest in Pakistan, I wonder what the eminent F.M. thinks.

I think that Musharraf faces little choice now -- he is heading towards becoming Pakistan`s Hosni Mubarak.

hobbes #139 That is what it seemed from the way you had written, though. If that is not what you meant, then please ignore what I wrote.

``the guy is a COWARD`` (Shanker)

the guy IS a coward -- otherwise he wouldn`t have used his whole army to overpower a few unarmed elected civilians.

he IS a coward -- because all his military might is directed against one unarmed hapless WOMAN who was just elected the Chairperson of her party -- who just would NOT give up -- despite constant harassment and shameless military-judicial bluster.



Musharraf IS A COWARD -- because in two months there is SUPPOSED to be a `fair & free` election/selection for HIS OWN `real` democracy --and he is still AFRAID TO DEATH to lift the ban on mainstream political parties to start electioneering.

He WAS a brave commando when he was earning an honest living as a professional soldier.

but NOT NOW.

now he is a TURNCOAT soldier turned COWARD -- who has corrupted his noble profession -- by taking an easy comfortable, unnatural, unprofessional, illegitimate, dishonest -- civilian route -- Parading as a Pious -- Politician-In-Chief.

re: ylh

...bleat, bleat, bleat, o great descendent of the prophet.....

Samina

Thank you jaan :). I need to do more looking on my own as well in terms of letter-writing, petitions.

I was just reading all these posts and thinking how thankful I was that something like Chowk exists. As much as we complain about those posters who tend to talk out of a part of their anatomy other than their mouths..it felt good to log on to the computer today and read and feel the warm thoughts that floated out from the screen. A bezillion thank-yous :)

fawad..

arre..thank you for the words, and the hug. They are really appreciated :) I`m feeling much better than I was when I wrote my last post to you..coming to Chowk helped, talking to my mother helped. And thank you for the apology, even though I wasn`t asking for one :)

I know what you mean about idealized fantasies and whims azizam..I, too wish that I could spend warm summer evenings enveloped in jasmine and gulabs in Lawrence gardens, or summer days in Murree allowing myself to indulge in the pleasure of eating roasted `chhali`(corn on the cob)with that incredible combination of lime and red pepper rubbed on it, one of the few things my mother let us buy from street hawkers. I`m sure many of us have fantasies like that..and then cruel realities hit us, no? The thing that is often difficult to do, `specially when one is alone is not to let the cruel realities get us down. I`ve been angry, and you say you are too, but rather than succumbing to the temptation of washing ourselves clean of Pakistan altogether, maybe we can channel this anger in positive ways by trying to figure out how to make our voices heard, and keep Pakistan idealized or the opposite in our hearts.

And no, I am not disgusted by all Pakistani Muslims (or any other Muslims for that matter). I am forever indebted to quite a few of them, father figures, uncles and aunties who loved us and took care of us, and taught us important lessons in life.

[maybe its time for these mullahs to take the cinder block out of their own eyes before they look for the piece of woods out of either people`s eyes ]...and not just the mullahs, yaar.

a hug and warm regards,

a.

shammi

[Where did all the liberal education that he imbibed there go? ]

er..that wasn`t the only thing he imbibed, but liberal education doesn`t necessarily liberate a man/woman from his/her bigotry and other demons. So you can take a jahil out of jahilia, but you cannot take jahilia out of a jahil. Unfortunately I know quite a few desi men and women to whom that applies :). As for Daniel Pearl`s father, the world is an increasingly shrinking place, and terror does hit closer to home in many ways.

Zafar..

Thank you. And indeed we shall overcome..and may we live to see it as well :) And I`m with you on the yuckiness muckiness of Starbucks..gosh, don`t they have Torrefaziones in your neck of the woods, ye imbibers of Starbucks?!

YLH..

been a while, yasser, na?

[It is time Musharraf acted like a dictator, that he is, and came down hard on the mullahs and the fanatics who are the greatest enemies of Pakistan, a thousand times greater an enemy than India can ever be.]

kya rhetoric jhara hai tum ne. yes, Musharraf must definitely take a firmer stand on the increasing violence against women and minorities.

tahmed..

and this is what we should focus on na? The common humanity that does bind us together, the different threads that embroider and join together to make a beautiful piece?

hobbes..

thanks :). In my litany of people I have lost faith in, I should add certain elements of the Christian community as well. But for me, as long as breath continues, faith must as well :)

Warm regards to all of you... a.

What the HELL is Mushy doing?! Goddamn it, if you are a dictator, kick some goddamned ass, I say. He has this world famous disciplined military behind him, doesnt he?

Now that the police has identified the this-e-that group that killed the nurses, round up some of their leaders & PUBLICLY hang them! Why the heck is that so difficult?

What the HECK is he scared of?

1)Going around the law? Goddamnit, he IS the law!

2) Scared of mullahs? Aw gimme a break! If Pakistani Chowkies are right, only 2% of the population is pro-mullah. Maybe they can make some noise on the street. So what?! Just send your world famous troops consisting of marital races & kill a few of the beards, the rest will go scurrying into their harems.

I think Mushy is a lot of hot air. Hey! its easy for him to go on national tv & say ``we Pakistanis wont compromise our honor!..we will teach India a lesson she never forgets!``

Wah wah..Mushy ke bacche...Mashallah! Subhanallah!! Ooof! what courage it must require to tell off the cowardly Indians!...even my grandma can do that!.. When it comes to dealing with Paki pigs who are making your country a laughing stock in the eyes of the world; the guy is a COWARD.

He makes a big deal of putting them in house arrest & then releasing them (O yeah...I forgot THOSE guys are not terrorists, but freedom fighters)..

Pray tell me, Islam ke mashoor pehelwans, are these guys freedom fighters too?! After all, they are fighting for Pakistan`s freedom against the evil & sacrilegious West..who are not as bad as hindu vermin, but close..

Reality is that guys like Mushy must have indirectly helped give birth to all of them. After all, he is a ``world famous`` Cammando General, isnt he? He loooves his ``cammando uniform``. Just who the fcuk TRAINED these SOBs? Guerella tactics & cammando tactics are very similar.

Hey, but what do I know? I`m just an armchair nonexpert. Maybe the official military spokesman on Chowk, Feild Marshall Romair, should shed some light on how well Mushy is handling this problem. I mean, after I read the one & only Romair, I just feel like hugging & kissing Mushy...

Ana,

I second Zafar`s message. And you need not explain yourself to anybody. If theres anything we can do; write letters, petitions, find out about educational groups, please let me know. (I`ll be looking on my own, as well)

Zafar,

Banish the thought of patronaging Starbucks! Have you had a gander at the vitamin laced water lately? Tastes really awful...

Tahmed

``And no, Hobbes, this is not about destabilizing Musharraf`s government - and I am shocked that you should think that destabilizing the government in Pakistan is a good thing, or that it justifies these killings.``

Ahmed Sahab, where did you read that I said it was a good thing or it justifes these killings? or that it is good to destabilize the government of Pakistan?

Can you show not just me but all Chowk that your assertion that I think these killings are good and justified?

I wrote on Aug 6 in post #73 on the ``Myth of Autonomy`` board that a we can expect a major terror offensive; and this offensive in my opinion is about destabilizing the governmemt of Mr. Musharraf.

ana

.....i dont know how it is like being called a choora ....i dont know its like being made to feel discriminated systematically......i know how i feel when i get jokes like ``are you al-qaida`` are you supposed to have 4 wives . ...i swear even though i could never live in pakistan as americanized as i am i think maybe i belong in lahore.....lahore is home ....my ancestors are buried there,,,,,on fridays i wish i could be praying jummah at badshashi........in summers i wish i could have summers in muree......but these are just idealized fanatasies and whims ......you are more pakistani than i will ever be and i know it............i dont blame you one bit for not being in pakistan or leaving why should you live in that shthole ???????? i guess all i could do is if i ever saw you is give my apologies on behalf of my retarded co-religionists and give you a hug ......i share your anger deeply .................without being facetious pakistani xians happen to demostrate a love for their homeland not shown by pakistani muslims often mde poignant by the challenges they face i wish their could be some national reconciliation and pakistanis all of them ---xian muslim hindu and what have you just get together and better their nation i dont see it happening i just hope you are not disgusted by all pakistani muslims ...............maybe its time for these mullahs to take the cinder block out of their own eyes before they look for the piece of woods out of either people`s eyes

bye

aziz

im sorry for what they are doing and i apologize

hobbes/ana On the murder of the three nurses in Pakistan today, here is what the NYT reports: ``Throughout the morning, local Muslims, who make up the vast majority of the hospital`s patients, came to console wounded Christians. ``These people cure the Muslims,`` Manafia Begum, a local Muslim, said as she held the hand of one wounded nurse. ``And look what happens.``

This is the only saving grace I see in today`s killings of nurses: the common humanity that joins muslim and christian Pakistanis together.

And no, Hobbes, this is not about destabilizing Musharraf`s government - and I am shocked that you should think that destabilizing the government in Pakistan is a good thing, or that it justifies these killings. This is about a gang of criminals trying to take over Pakistan by force. It is time that the military government woke up to the evil that mullahism that it has spawned in Pakistan.

re: ana

``...stuck in the shadows of Zia`s jahilia...``

And probably you would not even know that Zia was educated at Delhi`s ST. STEPHENS college -- one of Delhi`s best. Where did all the liberal education that he imbibed there go? Terror has hit close to me as well -- I just made the sad discovery that I know the father of Danny Pearl (the WSJ reporter beheaded in Karachi). He was a professor of mine at graduate school. An absolutely brilliant one at that, and the founding father of an entirely new branch of artifical intelligence, Bayesian networks.

Reply Ana # 128

“What the `ell good is technology and new and modern buildings alongside Main Boulevard when our hearts and minds have expanded so little?”

Ana, yeh tho hum Hindustan meiN bhi sochthe haiN. And for much the same reasons. Be strong. We SHALL overcome.

Reply Saminashah, Dost Mittar, Shankar # 118

PLEASE stop drinking that muck they call coffee at Starbucks. Take yourself directly to an Italian café and have something decent, or take up chamomile tea. (Starbucks? Astaghf....)

Salaam e dua

Z

PS Dost Mittarji, please listen more to your daughter who sounds like she has a conscience which is a credit to you!

APPEAL to jay

Learn how to spell for God`s sake... Please?

Thankyou

YLH

Ana,

Everytime these bast@rds kill a Pakistani especially from the minorities, I feel like going and breaking a Mullah`s head. To think that we are killing our Pakistani brethren for the sake of those uncouth bearded fools from Afghanistan?

It is time Musharraf acted like a dictator, that he is, and came down hard on the mullahs and the fanatics who are the greatest enemies of Pakistan, a thousand times greater an enemy than India can ever be.

There is no point in returning to democracy without cleaning up Pakistan... It is time for all of us to unite against the menace of the mullahs...

-YLH

PS: Saxena have you forgotten to count as well? tsk tsk that syndrome is getting really worse now...

Please seek some psychiatric help...

Ladies and gentlemen,

Please don’t mind the petty insults and abuse hurled at me by Saxena. He can’t help himself. He suffers from a strange ailment which makes him think that he is the God’s gift to mankind, which makes him act this way. Other than allegedly making a ‘Bakra’ and ‘bleating’ the hell out of me, he has never contributed anything positive to this website. He declares: ‘I am on chowk for fun’. I wonder what kind of a life-less loser would go to a serious issue-oriented website like Chowk for kicks? It is in my faith to show compassion to the pathetic and the underprivileged suffering from severe psychological problems. Therefore I urge others to do the same.

A concerned well wisher of Rsaxena,

YLH

Ana

You do have a point - If ``we`` are really with you, why have we not publically or peacefully demonstrated that? - A march, some event to show publically, that this is not us. None of the political parties or politicians have made specific comments, neither has the president.

Is it our failure? Yes it is. Not only are ordinary persons terrorized, the highest officials in the land know these murderers are gunning for them. The policy thus far been not to antagonize them, like keeping away from a hornets next - but it`s not possible anymore, they have made the choice that either Pakistan will conform to their vision or die. keep the faith, Pakistanis will not allow that vision nor will it allow Pakistan to die.

re: ylh

...bleat, bleat, bleat...keep it up...4 posts in repsonse to one-liners?...bleat, bleat, bleat...

hobbes,

that is the line that Nisar Memon and others may give, but I, personally, refuse to believe that this isn`t about Christians. Everyone can tell me otherwise, but I`ve heard of enough churches being razed, and as I`ve mentioned here before, my mother`s village was attacked, churches razed, houses set on fire..and this was prior to the Generalissimo`s arrival on the presidential scene...so yes, while there are those haramis who want to create trouble for Musharraf..the target is definitely Christians..Pakistani or foreign nationals.

I heard that right at the onset of the war in Afghanistan, there was a mullah who actually called for taking the lives of Christians. For every Muslim life lost in Afghanistan, he called for two Christian lives to be taken in Pakistan. Not just one but two. THAT is what the life of a Christian living in Pakistan is worth to some deranged individuals. Not two Parsees, not two Hindus, probably not even two Martians if they were sighted, but two Christians..because these jahils associate Christianity with the West. America being the great shaitan, and Christians being their followers..puhleeze!

I remember our earlier discussion about women, and was thinking, how can we as Christians even go out in the streets and protest these actions without being accused of blasphemy or being thrown in jail on some trumped-up charge. There are Christians already languishing in Pakistani prisons on trumped-up charges. And now this. Surely there must be more effective ways of causing trouble for the Generalissimo, then to take the lives of Christians (and Muslims in the crossfire).

I`ve been sad about this for quite a while now, and my sadness has slowly been converting into anger. When I said that these attacks seem to be hitting closer to home, I say that because I have either met people connected to, or have visited these two places that were attacked this week. Both of these places have personal significance for me..so this added personal dimension to the situation has me incredibly anxious for the entire Christian community, but especially for my relatives as well as for family friends..and if there is a plan..and a pattern, who will be next in the troublemakers` plan to eliminate? And when is anyone besides those of us who have no protections going to come out and speak on this..someone other than our forked-tongued Generalissimo, and his cronies, who are politicians afterall, and who cannot always be believed?

hobbes, I do appreciate you saying how you are all with me on this one. It is somewhat consoling, but unfortunately many of us Pakistani Christians feel that we do not have the support of the people. I, myself, have been fortunate to grow up around family friends who are Muslim, and treated us like their very own, and we loved them as though they were ours, which is why this hurts even more..these people, devout and secular showed me what Pakistan could be..and that was thirty something years ago. How sad indeed it is to think that rather than progressing in thirty years, we have regressed, and continued to do, still stuck in the shadows of Zia`s jahilia. What the `ell good is technology and new and modern buildings alongside Main Boulevard when our hearts and minds have expanded so little?

Ana #125

We`re all with you on that one Ana - that`s not us, or at least, not most of us. This isn`t about Muslims or Christians or Parsees or martians - it`s about creating problems for Mr. Musharraf`s government.

fawad..

I woke up this morning and turned the television on to find out what time it was, and the news said something about a Christian hospital being bombed, and all the anchorperson kept saying was it was in Pakistan, not indicating where. I felt incredibly anxious, thinking it was the one in Lahore, but finally found out it was the one in Taxila. And it just keeps hitting closer and closer to home.

You asked me earlier how I felt. Today, I feel angry, very angry, and very sad for those who have lost their lives. Because these people did not deserve to die. I`m not really convinced that Americans or other foreign visitors are the ONLY targets. As an ignorant fool once told my cousin, who still lives in Pakistan, `Why don`t you go to America, or England. You don`t belong here.` I feel angry and helpless, because I can`t do anything from where I am, `cept what my mother keeps telling me to do. And somehow, prayers are not enough..they have to be followed by some positive action.

I remember one time when my Pakistani passport had expired, and I called the embassy here to renew it, and the guy started giving me this lecture on how I should return to Pakistan, how Pakistan needed young people like me. Perhaps I had told him my full name (which indicates what faith I follow), I don`t remember. I didn`t know how to respond then, except to say `you`ve given me something to think about.` But now I would say that when we as an entire nation value the lives of all those who are physically still among us (and those who are not), when we can learn to respect each other with our separate beliefs, yet equal in terms of our humanity, when we realize that the roads to Karachi, to Bahawalpur, to Jhika Gali, and to Lahore, and all the cities and villages in Pakistan can no longer be paved with ripped apart bodies from suicide bombs and Kalashinikovs, and when women are recognized throughout the country as more than just chattel, or mindless and voiceless creatures, then and only then will I even consider returning to Pakistan to live. But today, I am angry, and am tempted to rip my Pakistani passport to shreds.

Jinnah`s words about us being free to visit our churches, our temples ring really hollow for me right now..those words are as dead as he is. I have no faith in Musharraf, I have no faith in the politicians, exiled or otherwise, at this point my faith in God is on shaky ground as well.

And perhaps you can tell your friend who believes in a secular, progressive Pakistan, and thinks that those of us whining should come back and do something about it, that I am bloody tired of being told to return to a country where I have been made to feel less of a person both in terms of being a Christian and a woman, and really, my modest proposal is, if the goal here is to do away with the Christians, be they Pakistani or foreign nationals, to just kill them all..because the Pakistani Christians won`t budge, they too are sons and daughters of the soil, they too have made their contributions to the nation, and their stories, their history is either erased or will never be included in your bloody school and college textbooks, and thank God for that because it would be all lies!

You did ask how I felt..perhaps next time azizam, you would do well never to ask me that question again. Khodahafiz!

dost-mittar #111 My nephew (who lives in Europe) went one step further. After finishing high school, he convinced German authorities that he would do social work (which is permitted in lieu of compulsory military service in that country), and go to Pakistan to help ILO implement a program of education for children working in factories. He spent the hot summer months last year bouncing around the Panjab countryside in Pakistan, and returned after having successfully extended the program across a number of towns in that area. That is not easy work of course, but the program is a good one: the children keep on working in factories (thus earning badly needed family income) and also get a chance to get education. And factory owners proved quite receptive to this idea (since no doubt they are neither the ogres they are made out to be, and are also sensitive to the pressure being put on them to do something more for the children than paying them minimal wages and expecting them to sweat it out all day long in the factory).

jay #117 you write ``I am a paki basher``.

Ha! Ha! I can imagine this skinny little man doing shadow boxing in his padded cell. While the keepers sadly shake their head and stick another needle in his rear.

For those of you in NYC and its environs (and anywhere else :))

Rehan Ansari..haan apne chowk ka Rehan, is teaching a class on Indian cinema, To find out more about it, visit the link indicated below

http://www.nsu.newschool.edu/fall02/comm5.htm#NFLM3441

And sign up, if it strikes your fancy :)

Thanks!

Fawad,

So now are you Fawad or Fawad79? Too mischievious, this nick doppelgangering...

Anyways, SIR, I am pro Pal, but not pro hammas/hezbollah/etc.. Decimating the will/spirit of the Pal people is no solution either. Hiroshima/Nagasaki was an unwarranted cruelty that the conservatives have yet to own up to.

My comments were directed at your Paki girl generalizations. Be prepared to answer to them.

shankar

i like your posts i learn about the politics of medicine second we pharmacists are pushing too in the clinical direction ...ten years ago who the the hell heard of residencies for pharmacists?...........now there are all kinds of clinical specialties ............PharmDs are knowledgable i think ......they are not all that stupid as some MD/DOs percieve them to be.........

ps PAs and NPs rxibe now everyone but us PharmDs(not that i think we should) whats up with that?

id be interested on your perception of clinical pharmacists you ever work with those clinical pharmacists i heard there a few in pyschiatry is this true?

ps the founder eo starbucks called the palis terrorists APMC called for their boycott

re saminah

am in bizarro world all of a sudden? thought you were totally pro-palestinian ........

as per palestinian to be honest i sympathize with them totally but i follow kissinger`s school of thought in int`l affairs though ... there is no ideology or morality that can be a constraining force in deliberations of foreign policy( i swear to god i should have been a diplomat or a policy wonk at STATE) the palestinian movement must be crushed by israel with such tenacity that they cant ever think of violence again .....if i was an israeli to be honest id invade them wholesale or cutter them with daisies .........like think about the US nuked hisroshma and nagasaki and ended a world war but japan is better off today ........the palestinians need to be crushed and rehabilitated ..........or israel needs to withdraw and creat a real state in west bank and gaza condemning violence is BS .........there is no moral eqivalence the palis are the underdogs like Barak said said if he was a Pali he`d join hamas .........as per kashmir id say give it to the indians i dont give a damn about it anymore..............pakistan is like jordan in the 60s when king hussein cut off connections to the West bank he put the onus of liberation on the palis themselves .........i say pakistan do the same allow NO VIOLENCE FROM AZAD KASHMIR AND CUT THESE KASHMIRIS..........if they want azadi let them fight for it .............

if you read my post carefully madam(ps im not a boy child and if you think so well i will not name call back ) i have a nuanced view of the middleast in other words ive done my homework and i only see one way out one side has to CRUSH and win the other side has to loose ............u either win by terrorim r you dont the israelis won their state by terrorism maybe its time for the palis to win or loose ..............

Dost Mittar, Shankar,

Dost, first of all, congrats. on having such a socially responsible and wise daughter! For future ref. I think New Balance and Saucony are unionized and in North America. I also need a new pair of sneakers and plan on spending my money not at Nike.

For all of Nicolaus Kristof`s and co. rationalizations about why its better for impoverished workers to work within our current system, I can`t get over my gut instinct that buying from responsible companies is a local and global action; support worker parity so that local and global workers are not exploited. Its imp. that these issues are not obfuscated, esp. in this time of Enron, World.com, etc.

I`ve noticed that downsizing and its attendant evils are visiting the public service sector over here as well. For ex., my mom`s lab staff has been diminished while the work has increased. Last week, a big boss responded to a failing cleanliness report of her veteran`s hospital by refusing her and her colleagues contentions that Housekeeping be rebanded (were cut for budget reasons). His answer was to fudge the cleanliness standards and lower them a bit, so that the problem wouldn`t look so bad. Talk about creative spin...they voted against him anyway. Don`t even get me started on the NYTimes Sunday Education section on education where the piece work rate of the adjunct prof. was represented unquestioned. At this rate, I`ll be lucky to piece together several teaching jobs.

Shankar, Starbuck`s coffee is so expensive because 1. you are paying for the experience of the ``venue``; in other words, not everyone can afford to buy at Starbucks. 2. their coffee isn`t that great-over here it tends to be burnt, too strong and syrupy 3. Support your mom and pops for obvious reasons, one being Starbucks is another corporate behemoth that contributes to the destruction of local business and culture. See Barnes and Nobles, Blockbusters, Walmart. 4. See what kind of benefits Starbucks provides their employees-they sure make enough money.

ylh 65,

Here we go again. Read up the pak history in your own great govt of mUSHERAFF web site, and name the hindus mentioned in pak history. Great gokhele is linked to pakistan, let that man rest in his grave. Now about pak freedom struggle, great, when gokhele was in prison, jinnah was outside. Any one who took part in the freedom struggle was arretsed. However no one who drank sherry and ate was arrested. Now tell to which camp gokele, tilak belonged, and to which camp jinnah belonged. So much for the pak freedom struggle, let alone the people of the present day pakistan, did it mighty leader do anything. I have to admit, drinking sherry can be a worse suffering than going to prison. By the way cangress duly paid all the legal fees for gokhele.

Now about my pak obscession. I have told it several times on the chowk, I am a paki basher, the great sport practiced by the british youth in the sventies. It is alleged that it will demonstrated in the forthcoming commonwealth games in Melbourne, and I an at present there warming up for it. Let us not deny the great contribution of pakistan to this sport, and you can be more proud of this than about your alleged freedom fighters.

With three roades named after abdus salam in the small city of lahore, how about a ``paki bash street``, I will be glad to live there.

You are so pathetic.

Regards and best bishes, you need it in that god ( sorry allah) foresaken place.

Jay

Dear fawad

``yasser and sax

newsflash:jinnah gandhi and einstein are dead i mean does it matter?``

Precisely my point and that is exactly what I said in #79... whatever interest I have in them is purely academic... but Saxena insists on bringing up these things when he is getting his behind whacked... You see he claimed `Pakistan is geographically too thin a country to have DST` (as if England was the fattest country in the world) declaring shamelessly that DST `depended on Latitudes`.

Then to hide his embarrassment he tried to start all this nonsense but as you can read from #79 I refused to be goaded into a Gandhi-Jinnah debate. After all his pathetic little efforts wasted, mr.Saxena turned around to claim that he had `played` me (maybe this word means something else in `Indian`) but he refused to elaborate exactly how... in came shankar with his insults and then saxena with more of his own insults and then harimau joined the lot, in typical Indian fashion. If this is the measure of their pathetic internet victories and their gratification at making imaginary bakras in their mind, I fear that even if one responds to an Indian, he/she is a bakra.

Actually I have narrowed this down to a science... What will Saxena bring up next? Rutgers perhaps?? or the Prophet?? Odds of Saxena bringing up Rutgers and the Ivy League 3 to 1, Prophet`s descendants? 5 to 1, the job that my father offered ? 5 to 1, Pakistan`s three military defeats? 4 to 1... Jinnah`s horrible exclusivist politics? 4 to 1... Gandhi`s comparison with a porsche 911? 2 to 1 ..

Odds of Rsaxena explaining why and how Pakistan is geographically too thin a country to have Daylight Savings time?? 1 in a billion.

Note: All odds based on careful calculation of probability, through an examination of Mr.Saxena last five posts.

Any bets?

-YLH

``...saying you didn`t get played doesn`t mean you didn`t...``

Dear Saxena ji maharaj,

I am not saying you didn`t play me, or that you aren`t the greatest of all players... I just wanted to know what in #79 particularly did you think you played? Was it that I avoided the Gandhi debate... cuz I am sorry, I thought if I did indulge in it I would have played into your hands... clearly I was wrong..

I am just trying to learn from the best... won`t you help me out ?

faithfuly yours

YLH

``...saying you didn`t get played doesn`t mean you didn`t...``

Dear Saxena ji maharaj,

I am not saying you didn`t play me, or that you aren`t the greatest of all players... I just wanted to know what in #79 particularly did you think you played? Was it that I avoided the Gandhi debate... cuz I am sorry, I thought had if I did indulge in it I would have played into your hands...

I am just trying to learn from the best... won`t you help me out ?

faithfuly yours

YLH

Dear sirs (harimau, shankar, rsaxena)

How are you?

I most regretfuly must inform you (rsaxena) and your wellwishers that you suffer from the Saddam Hussain syndrome brought about most definitely by that iodine deficiency I talk about... (which is probably also the reason that now you are denying your claim that DST depends on Time Zones and Pakistan and your tendency towards irrelevancy such bringing gandhi jinnah etc). You know just because Saddam Hussain claims he defeated the US in the Gulf war (analogous to India`s claims in `65), and will defeat the US again .. doesn`t mean that it really happened.

As regards your insults, no doubt your best friends here will appreciate that I have brought you to your barbaric worst so much so that you are shouting insults like a crazed maniac. To borrow the phrase from your distinguished compatriot ... you sir are `compulsively abusive`...

Personally I love dogs (I have four of them mashallah) so I don`t have any problem associating with them. So don`t waste your precious typewriting on calling me a dog.. How about thinking up a creative insult for a change...

Faithfuly yours

Yasser

Arjun: Ur far away from the jinnah/ghandi/india/paki nonsense u were building on earlier (so we`ll let that slide).

``only one color matters..green.``

Not trying to knock ur hustle, but i dont get along well with paper chasers (theyll do anything to get their greens).

Anyone,

What is this business about bycotting starbucks? Please enlighten me? Nobody makes a cup of coffee as good as them.

Ref rsaxena #: 101

[...every now and then, it`s fun to toss a ball and watch your dog chase it down and bring it back...even if you`ve done it a thousand times, you still continue to do it...simple pleasures of life....]

In my case, my dog wants the ball thrown. He needs the exercise and the pleasure of chasing and catching SOMETHING, now that he has been neutered.

Oh my God, does THAT explain Yasser?

Ref arjun_m #: 104

[i know indians working on banking projects in colombia too. only one color matters..green.]

Don`t tell me you ran into (or know) the same guys from Kimble Software that I ran into in Bogota!

By the way, Kimble is an Irish company with a development arm in Bangalore. Their banking software is either buggy beyond belief or the Irish don`t know how to manage software projects. The Indians I met were already there for 18 months trying to fix it all.

=== Interact Filtered ===
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fawad

[you ever encountered an iranian who is a practicing muslim i mean damn its harder than finding good chelo kebab on the east coast how is tehranangles i heard sabzeh gormeh is take out and the dokhtars are just aaaaakh jaaaaan!]

You can`t find good chelo kebab on the east coast?? bichare! Good reason for you to learn how to cook it yourself, no? :) I would tell you how `Tehrangeles` is, had I been there, thankfully the part of Los Angeles I went to was relatively free of Persians!!! Gormeh sabzi take-out place, maan, I would be there just about every day, if it was good! As for the dokhtars being just `aaaakh jaaaan`...not only in Teherangeles, yaar..not only in Teherangeles!

As for whether I have ever encountered an iranian who is a `practicing` Muslim..the answer is that the iranians I`ve encountered for the most part are either atheists or another kind of -ist. Very few `practicioners`

P.S. If you should ever as a Pakistani (or Indian) offer rice pudding to an Iranian, please don`t offer it as `kheer`..(unless you`ve got sex on you mind!). Kheer refers to a penis in Farsi..and man did we get some good laughs out of that when I offered kheer to a Persian. :)))

Fawad,

Yaar, why do you oversimplify Kashmir and Palestine? And why don`t you admit that most reasonable people condemn violence used on either side in either country? Why does every Paki boy child insist that the Palestian Issue is all Israel`s fault?

Jeez louise, come up with something new for godsakes!

re: shrinker

{you still enjoy playing with that chut?! how many times do you want to catch the same fish & release it into the pond...again & again..?}

...every now and then, it`s fun to toss a ball and watch your dog chase it down and bring it back...even if you`ve done it a thousand times, you still continue to do it...simple pleasures of life....

re: fawad

{nwsflash:jinnah gandhi and einstein are dead i mean does it matter?}

...newsflash: don`t you ever say that again...jinnah lives in ylh...

re: ylh

...saying you didn`t get played doesn`t mean you didn`t...

...btw, still lying about DST?...tsk tsk tsk...no shame...another jinnah habit you seem to have picked up...remember his forked tongue flip-flop comments about kashmir that you refused to address directly?...

...say, you`re a fortunate man, what with being the prophet`s great