The Hindu Right

``when you are in your grave all alone and Munkir and Nakir come to question you....````(Asif Naqshbandi)

iss saadgi pe kaun nu mur jai ai khoda ... sorry to bother you -- Asif miaN -- forget it.

The Hindu Mahasabha and intractable positions! Ra Ra you have outdone yourself. Most leaders of the HM (Savarkar included) rejected Nazism unequivocally and encouraged Indians to join the Army in great numbers. Savarkar reasoned that this would provide them invaluable experience in the handling of weaponry and military tactics. Britain would think twice about trying to lord over a militarily trained populace. The HM was intratactable about what then? It opposed the ``appeasement`` of the League by the Congress and saw it shamelessly pandering to every demand of the League. Ambedkar was even more critical than the HM about this. This does not mean that the HM was right and the Congress was wrong as many people often would like to imagine. The debate ran much deeper than such superficialities. The HM if anything was an inspiration to the firebrands such as Bhagat Singh - a great admirer of Savarkar - and Netaji. How many people know that Netaji and Savarkar shared a platform before the latter left the Congress? While the League had painted a scary scenario of a Hindustan where Muslims would live as second-class citizens under Hindu jackboots; much of these fear was allayed during the deliberations of the Constituent Assembly. So when Independence finally dawned in mid-August 1947 on the Indian sub--continent, India was well on its way to becoming a vibrant pluralistic, multicultural and inclusive democracy and republic. Pakistan on the other hand was well on its way on the road to instability, parochialism, sectarianism, thuggery and criminality. Jinnah as the archpriest of the new dispensation declared himself chairman of the Pakistan Constituent Assembly (a farcical body if there was one) He was busy ticking off Suhrawardy and Fazlul Haq and any leader of consequence within the League (being a usurper himself!). No wonder the marked contrast in the Indiependence celebrations in Pakistan vis-a-vis India. While in India it had been a mass-movement and an instrument of social change; in Pakistan it was the culmination of the efforts of the landed-gentry in alliance with shallow thrid-rate intellectuals like Jinnah to subvert popular will and install themselves in power. Karachi was mostly empty on August 14th, 1947; the crowds listless. India`s people were celebrating the occasion as Bharatiar had prophesised 50 years before, ``Aaduvome, pallupaaduvome, aananda sudandirattai adainduvittome!`` ``We will dance and sing together; for we are joyously free today!``

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nasah

If you think being pro Islamic is ``crap`` you should seriously worry about the status of your iman cos at the end of the day that is all that is going to matter when you are in your grave all alone and Munkir and Nakir come to question you....

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As for the writer of this article I already congratulated him for his principled stance. I never said all non Muslims in India were bad. But one good article from a HIndu writer doesn`t mean that MUslims are not facing genocide in the coming years from the HR as voices like his are being obviously not listened to and in a minority. It no more proves that the secular heart of India is well than a single act of violence by a deranged Muslim proves that Islam is bad.

In fact it is the middle class in India who are increasingly turning to the HR...

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Oh well if your name is Hasan then I hope for your sake when the HR come looking for Muslims that you are not around...

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Muslims like you are the sort who sell out their own kind for a few lousy dollars or a position of authority. You remind me of the Kufans who were treacherous against Imam Husayn alayhisalam...

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Mir Jafar and Mir SAdiq were cut from a similar cloth as you and your ilk. Mr. AJP Kalam seems to be another Muslim who is acceptable to the HR. It makes one wonder why....?

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At the end of the day the fact is that Muslims are going to have to stand up for themselves. No one else is going to help them. And those who think they will are living in cloud cuckoo land...

Of course if you are willing to become-as a RSS ``sevak`` said on a TV programme recently-``a Hindu Muslim`` then they will have no problem with you....

That is a decision everyone has to make for him or herself...

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Finally this excellent article should have made you realise the truth about Indian ``secularism``. * * *

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005.057

PICKTHAL: O Ye who believe! Choose not for guardians such of those who received the Scripture before you, and of the disbelievers, as make a jest and sport of your religion. But keep your duty to Allah if ye are true believers.

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And we pray that Allah send Imam Mahdi soon!

nasah/tahmed123--

First of all I do not support the violent methods of Omar Saeed and other extremists; I DO support the idea of a pan-Islamic state achieved via non violent means.

This does not mean that I don`t think * *oppressed * * Muslims have the right to defend themselves to quote brother Malcolm X ``by all means necessary`` (eh in Palestine and now in India)as all oppressed peoples have rthe right of self-defense.

In India Muslims are facing state sponsored genocide but if someone stands up for them it seesm to hurt your bleeding liberal heart. Except it doesn`t seem to bleed when Muslims are being burned, killed, ripped apart etc.

As for the UK I am not against everything in this society and nor do i support eveything in this society. There are positives and negatives like in every country and I am a law abiding citizen thank you very much. (And freedom of speech is something allowed in an Islamic state too before you start lying again.)

AS for wanting ``mullah rule`` you are wrong. I want Shari`ah rule in Pakistan and other countries with Muslim majorities and the ulama should only play a guiding role to ensure that no edicts are passed which are against the Shar`iah. THe ulamah should not have a direct role in politics. What I want is a country which will protect the lives and honour and property of the Muslims and not sell them out for whatever wordly gains like our sorry bunch of current rulers. Is wanting the Muslim nations to be truly independent, developed, united and powerful a crime? Only to the enemies of Islam like yourself it seems...

In the meanwhile I believe like Fawad said that we should occupy ourselves with prayer and worship and being good Muslims, practising the Sunnah until Allah in His Mercy decideds to appoint a leader from amongst us who WILL unite us.

In the meanwhile may Allah help the Muslims of India. Ameen.

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asif: bearing what i posted in mind islam isnt the be all and end all of existence i support all movements that unify different people with shared values

fawad #16

I am not an indian muslim so I cannot reply to you in terms you asked but I would like to make a related point.

What is the path forward for all indians, including muslims? It is nothing but the indian state, the indian constitution, the indian federal system. It is only be deepening these institutions and improving the quality of governance that we get anywhere. And we can only do that by working together. I do not see in the responses you mention anything else but an awaremeness of this fact.

The genius of india`s founders was to ensure that the symbols and language of the state had an ``indian`` feeling but not a sectarian feeling. This is true whether you are referring to the indian flag or the national anthem or the national song. We now have to go forward and construct from within a state that truly matches these symbols.

My humble suggestion to those who are being oppressed and attacked by oppressors is to adopt the universal symbols of the indian state. Why not have a march through Ahmedabad with tri-color proudly held high! Why not have the entire procession sing ``Jana Gana Mana`` or ``Sare Jehan See Accha``!

We will see if these ``hindu`` thugs, bigots and hatemongers have the guts to attack those who respect and reverence our nation and its symbols. Let this be broadcast on national TV! Within days the entire nation will understand who is ``anti-national`` and who is a patriot!

Unfortunately, we do not yet have people who fully appreciate the power of this symbolism and its meaning. This is true on both sides. With very few exceptions the indian muslim leadership has not yet realized how powerful a symbolism the indian flag, constitution and national songs provide. It is by embracing this identity in contrast to the hindu extremists which will expose the true anti-national and separatist forces.

You will recall that four years ago when there was a protest by indian christians in New York (Vajpayee was visiting) every marcher carried the tri-color and it began with the national anthem and ended with the national song. This kind of action is one of the reasons that the christians have been able to meet and defeat the sanghis.

ASIF there is nothing wrong in being pan-islamic despite what certain indiviuals who have the gall to call themselves muslim might say .......these west-toxicated people are best left to themselves,,,,,,,,, pan-islam is not political it is spiritual bro......... we have to move away from a political pan -islamic mentality to more of a social view.................how can that be done: by example...............people who care about the ummat such as you do should focus on educational , humantarian , and cultural assitance and something that is progressive ......dont fall into the trap that people like nasah want you too .......change your program refrain from extremist and inciteful language and practice...........violence accomplishes nothing neither does extremism moderation and restraint will increace islam ....

amen and peace

and dont let haters discourage you

nasah forgive me im going to indulge in a crass poltical generalization : you indians muslims come in 2 types : apologists for the current order (such as you ) and self-hatining to boot like your buddy kalam ..........and fanatics................you prove my point with your every post

ps if you think india is secular then pakistan is free of terrorism and violence

Asif #1 That fellow scumbag I mention in my post below incidentally is omar sheikh, in case you are wondering.

Asif #1 So I see you have not changed one whit over the past several months. Still seeking mullah rule. Here is what happened since we last exchanged notes: The Pakistanis are getting ready to hang one of your fellow Pakistani-British scum. He will no doubt save a seat for you in hell and await your arrival.

Until then, enjoy your life as a British citizen, protected by the same society that you reject, but which you or your parents no doubt lined up once to be allowed to live in.

Ra Ra`s support of Art.370 is yet another moronic manifestation of his highness. Art.370 among other things prevents anyone but a ``son-of-soil`` of J&K from owning immovable property within the State. If a daughter of the State marries an ``outsider`` she loses the right to the aforesaid right. By no stretch of imagination can this wretched piece of legislation - actually a temporary device according to its Statement of Objects and Reasons - have anything to do with India`s ``secular character`` or whatever. That Ra Ra chooses to quote the mendacious provocateur AG Noorani shows up his diatribe for the drivel it is. On the question of Coimbatore Ra Ra should not speak for the residents of that fair town. The incident that sparked the violence in the first place was the murder of a constable in plain-clothes by two anti-socials (who can be nominally termed Muslim). When the police went to arrest the perps they were attacked. The subsequent bomb blasts were aimed at Advani on his visit to make an election-related address in the city. LKA had a narrow escape. As for the police in Calcutta - the less said the better. The police of West Bengal are virtually the uniformed branch of the CPI-M. Even senior officers take their orders from party hacks - like in the days of the Old USSR!

The Uniform Civil Code proposed in the Directive Principles of State Policy is yet another brilliant proposal from B.R. Ambedkar. Ambedkar was unequivocal about being Indian, and said, ``I do not want that our loyalty as Indians should be in slightest way affected by any competitive loyalty whether that loyalty arises out of our religion, out of our culture, out of our language. I want all people to be Indian first, Indian last and nothing else.``

Asif Naqshbandi -- did you have to jump in and muddy this debate with your two bit stupid Pan Islamic crap.

British citizen -- big deal -- didn`t do you much good either -- like Saeed.

The fact that this column was written by a Hindu Indian about the wretched, pathetic, bloody thirsty criminals of the Hindu Right -- who prey upon the poor and the weak -- is a testimony that the secular health of India is fine and dandy -- despite the temporary ascendency of murderers and thugs like Advanis in Indian politics.

hasan

Some queries:

1. Has anyone responsible for the earlier Ayodhya killings, and the recent Gujrat killings been prosecuted? Indian courts seem to be quite free. Why aren`t they prosecuting the guilty parties?

2. Are there any moderate religious parties in India? Or is the only counter to the BJP a secular Congress, or secular provincial parties? This is why I am opposed to forcing secularism (or religionism) down the throats of societies at a stage when they are not ready for it. It results in extreme backlashes. It makes it very easy for the extremist parties (either secularatics or religionatics), as opposed to the moderate parties, to get the public emotional.

3. If Indians can vote out the BJP completely, then Indian society will have progressed by leaps and bounds. If the BJP is not voted out of power and out of opposition, then Indian Muslims specifically, and India as a whole, are in big trouble. It will indicate that the BJP is not an extremist party, since it is not on the extremes. It is a mainstream party, and not a passing phenomenon.

In such a case, I think the only party that could counter the BJP would be a large moderate, but religious Hindu party. I don`t think secular parties will then be able to take on the BJP, since the BJP`s whole strategy is to point out that secular parties have catered too much to the Muslim community. What happens if the BJP forms the oppostion after the next election?

5. Also, why do Indians seem so surprised at what the BJP has done? The BJP itself stated its policies in its own manifesto, again and again. And the manifesto has been published on the Internet for years. If Congress would have done something like this, one could understand the surprise, but why the surprise at the BJP? It is only doing what it stated it would do. Infact, what it is doing is still a watered down version of what it wanted to do.

6. Finally, even more important than the BJP, is the social condition of the Indian Muslims. I had one Indian describe this to me as a ticking time bomb. I would appreciate an objective reply from any Indian explaining whether the Indian Muslims are so far behind the Indian Hindus, that they have completely missed the bus, or not. And if this economic and educational gap is going to continue to increase, with the Hindus making progress, and the Muslims remaining stagnant or going backwards, then how does India plan to handle this, ``ticking time bomb,`` in the next decades? Specially when a party like the BJP is in power, which probably doesn`t seem to mind a backwards Muslim population.

7. And final question: it seems like the BJP is being defeated in the provincial elections everywhere. Is this because Indians are fed up with BJP`s extremist policies, or is it because the BJP hasn`t been an economic success, i.e. if the BJP had been able to be corruption-free and had continued high economic growth, would the mostly Hindu population of the provinces ignored BJP`s anti-Muslim policies and voted for it?

Any replies will be appreciated.....

Reply pmishra2 # 5

“This is a good article. It would be better if it did not brush off the Shah Bano decision as a minor issue. As M. J. Akbar has correctly pointed out, this deeply foolish intervention by muslim politicians helped convince a large number of middle-of-the road indians that the muslim leadership had only the narrowest and most sectarian interest in india.”

A whole set of actions in this vein (most recent the AIMPLB saying that Muslims should not be subject to the prevention of child marriages act because sharia allows child marriages – I cld WEEP!) also resulted, IMO, in IMs who are not midieval in their outlook taking themselves to other forums and arenas - to some extent leaving speaking for the “community” in the hands of these clowns. In taking and using our own freedom from the ghetto, something which we could do in most parts of India without difficulty, did we fail those whom we left behind by failing to combat ignorance, but merely contenting ourselves with ignoring it?

Asif

In democracies political parties grow up in response to needs. It is indeed notable that there is no India-wide political party which campaigns on “Muslim-focused” issues and which gets the Muslim vote. (There is no such party in the UK either, is there?) What you may not be familiar with is the fact that studies show (you can find them either on tehelka.com or outlookindia.com, I forget which) that there is no discernible difference between the way Muslims and Hindus vote in most parts of India – this seems to indicate that the issues Hindus and Muslims find important are largely the same ones. Just something to think about when discussing representation in a democracy.

(For example, are Muslims the only people in India who should be concerned that a State Government turns its head the other way when violence against Muslims takes place? Clearly not, right? The Government’s failure is of concern to everyone – first of all for the morality of the issue, secondly enlightened self interest. Muslims today, but who will it be tomorrow?)

Do you believe that the legal rights and freedoms you enjoy as a Muslim from the UK are the result of the Muslim World blackmailing the Brits into extending equal rights to you, or do they spring from a political system which is now indigenous to Britain?

“Perhaps the Arabs will use their oil weapon to compel the HR to stop its pogroms...But these are long term goals...”

I don’t think that this would be a particularly long-lived solution, but I must ask: why a long term goal? The world has already seen an Arab oil embargo, it is not a new thing, in fact it is the one thing that the Arab oil producing states can do easily. So far they have not done any such thing, in fact they haven’t even downgraded ties with India. I cannot help wondering if your hope for Islamic solidarity is based on an understanding of the world that most Muslims do not share.

“Perhaps the ISI (and Mujahideen) can do something like they did in the riots of the early 90s in Bombay? (I have read that it was they who were responsible for the bomb blasts which finally put an end to the killing of Muslims. Perhaps they should start to target the leaders of the HR beginning with Advani. I am sure once their leaders are killed the ordinary people wont have much appetite for Ram Raj.)”

Ram Rajya (note spelling) refers to the reign of the King Ram (whose story is told in the Ramayana). It is a enduring motif in Indian thought, with the belief that under Ram the land was governed justly, that there was no corruption, discrimination or oppression, that the weak were protected from the strong. Ram Rajya has entered the political vocabulary of India (as have terms like “agnipariksha”, or “Lakshman rekha”), but unfortunately some take it to mean the Hindutva vision for India. That is in fact incorrect – Ram Rajya means what it always has. The Hindutva vision for India is demonstrably NOT Ram Rajya, regardless of what they might claim.

That said, I think that the motif of Ram Rajya – and the people’s desire for just governance – is not going to go away. Nor do I find it an unreasonable, or bad, desire – rather, it is entirely understandable. It is in fact exactly what most Indian Muslims want, though we may call it by a different name.

I am not telling you that your point of view is right or wrong – merely requesting that you think these issues through and see how the answers affect your stance.

Regards