The Hindu Right

zafarsaab #66

“…Kalam’s haircut”

…i agree…i like the man but the haircut/style/watchemucallit has got to go...

re: sigalph # 86

``Pan Hinduism is a bloated national craziness laced with fascism.``

Brilliant, just brilliant. And, that is why, either Hinduism or Pan Hinduism will surive. A `pan-Hindu,` like a `pan-Islamist,` is little more than a knife-carrying fascist in a designer business suit. No more dangerous person than him or her exists.

Nagnatheshwar #87

My suggestion to you is that you actually take the time to read my posting before you favour us with your stream of consciousness replies.

The whole point of my message is that Advani is an effective demagogue and communicator and that his opposition is extremely ineffective in this space.

Khoon apna ho ya paraaya ho
Nasl-e-aadam ka khoon hai aakhir


Be this blood ours or theirs
Humanity is bloodied

- Sahir Ludhianvi


Such words of wisdom in words so few...

Ras

re: nag/shah/12-head

{So is Saddam great magician with T.V. & large banners worshiping him ..what you call that ?}

...fcuknut, why don`t you go to iraq and defend him?...

re: fawad

...why won`t you answer alephnull`s post, which has some hard-hitting facts?...you keep repeating the same rhetoric you must`ve read in fanatic publications over and over again, but refuse to answer his questions...

re ali 57

`So Pan-Islamism is bad but Pan-Hinduism in the grab of secularism is fine? hypocrite!`

Pan Hinduism is a bloated national craziness laced with fascism. Pan Islamism is a global threat armed with homicide bombers, nuclear and biological weapons. The former will be controlled and eventually neutered within India`s constitutional system. The latter will have to be uprooted by the combined efforts and constant vigilance of the civilized world.

``why is it wrong for Naqsbandi to worry about the Muslim rioting victims in Gujurat? or about the welfare of Indian muslims in general?``

It is not wrong. I never said it was. My post itself condemns what happened in Gujarat and is happening in Kashmir. Problem is that some of you are so worked up calling people names (which you probably learnt at the local madrassah) that you forget to read what is written and instead read from thin air things that you want to read in order to vent your spleen.

As for your post 58, why isn`t the `homeland for the subcontinent`s Muslims` accepting any of those fleeing persecuation in India? Does the raison d`etre of Pakistan cease in 1951? Oh, wait a minute, never mind India`s Muslims, Pakistan has not even bothered to take back her own citizens rotting in Bangladesh since 1971. Pakistan`s `Islamic homeland` concept seems to exist only for two kinds of persecuted Muslims: those whose plight generates a lot of Uncle Sam`s and Auntie Europe`s money (afghans) and those who can be used as human guided missiles against India (kashmiris).

Re: Dost-Mittar

``… It was the inability of the Congress leadership, especially Nehru, to come to terms with the fact that Jinnah represented the dominant voice of India`s Muslims…"

Namaste. Last month had been especially busy for me at work, and I have been absent from Chowk. I regret that I could not respond to some of the posts that I had been engaged in at the time. This seems like an opportune moment to chime in.

A friend of mine, who is non-partisan from the Indo-Pak perspective, assessed the Partition in the following manner:

At the time of Independence, what would later become India included 535 princely states, covering vast regions, and incorporating these into the Union and extending civil administration to them would be the first order of business for any government. For this, the Congress envisioned a strong Centre, because a loose federation would not have proved equal to the task. Nehru/Patel also knew that the Muslim League was a `holding` party that depended heavily on regional parties, and that its demand for Pakistan was principally to obtain a stronger negotiating position. Nehru/Patel made a cold, calculated decision to accede to Jinnah`s demands. Were they right in their assessment of the League`s/Pakistan`s viability? The creation of Bangladesh seems to corroborate it. Could the princely states have still been incorporated with a loose federation? I didn`t ask, and don`t know.

If I recall correctly, our last interact was suspended (due to my absence) with your assertion that you preferred totalitarian good governance to democratic bad governance. I beg to disagree, especially in the case of India. Any kind of totalitarian regime, even if conceived with the purest motives, is unlikely to work in India. You had also expressed disappointment that democracy makes for slow and lethargic changes (e.g. Indian labour laws). That is the objective of most constitutions - to make slow drastic changes and make them more deliberate. The fact that in the `50s Nehru was able to make rapid and detrimental changes in the Indian economy is a testament to the fact that back then democracy was weak, and his writ was largely law. He was literally a 1-man institution and could do so despite the encumbrances of a democratic setup. The rapid changes made then, can only be undone today at a pace that is dictated by a deeper democratic system. Can you imagine a government today nationalizing industry at the same pace as it did in the early years?

Asif #80 For someone who avoids any mention of the Quran, and calls for political assasinations (I refer to your call to kill Advani in your post below) and other violent deeds, you are in no position to lecture Nasah on what it means to be a muslim. Nasah is a proud Indian, a proud American, a proud Muslim and a peaceloving human being. You, on the other hand, are fit only to be put away.

//Tom Friedman: And the last time I checked, there were no Indian Muslims in Guantanamo Bay. The last time I checked, the president of India was a Muslim. The last time I checked, the richest man in India was a Muslim...//

This what I say when some of my friends complain about muslim fundamentalism in India. There are quite a few bad apples ( like SIMI and Shahabuddin ) and we do have some misunderstaning between the communities which every once in a while throws up a very ugly spectacle. But, barring a few misguided Kashmiri youths and a bunch of criminal mafia dons - muslim indians have never sought to bear arms against their country or have never sought to participate in an atrocious, meanigless jihad against whole world.

This is exactly what I would say to Pakis shedding crocodile tears for muslims in India. They do have quite a few problems to tackle - but their problems are far far less serious than the problems facing muslims in all other muslims countries around the world, including Pakistan. So take a hike.

Despite Godhra and Gujrat - India shall prevail.

``The Muslims, like any other Indian, have the right to their life, property and identity without having to go through a loyalty test of parading themselves singing patriotic songs on the streets of India`s cities.``(dost-mitter)

You said it -- my friend.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

One of the issues missing from Ravishankar`s analysis is the mastery of the media and use of emotional symbols shown by the BJP. From the ``rath yatra`` to linking irrelevant issues to the Kashmir insurgency, the BJP has demonstrated clarity, resolve and ability to work through a strategy that involves use of TV other news media.

L.K. Advani used to be a journalist and has deep understanding of mass-media and peoples emotions.

He is a master strategist in this space.

It is another matter that he has little concern for the long-term future of the country.

In contrast, the secular forces in India, including the left and centrist forces, various non-communal minority groups, secularists have shown the greatest ineptness in their response. They are unable to utilize the great symbols of democratic india; its constitution, its flag, its imagery, its national songs, the parliament house as the home of all the peoples of india. Instead, they keep mumbling, grumbling, bleating and reacting. Instead of taking initiatives they are forever on the defensive.

This provides the context for my remarks that we need to harness the redemptive and inclusive power of indian nationalism to answer the sectarian and separatist challenge of the BJP.

nasah wrote:

* *``for me -- if all that famous British education -- * *comes to produce a line like this --

* *``when you are in your grave all alone and * *Munkir and Nakir come to question you....````

* *it`s time to say -- I give up.``

Why? What is wrong with that question? If you are a Muslim as you claim then you will believe in the punishment of the grave--it is one of the fundamental beliefs of Islam. So you have to tell me what is wrong with such a question--or are you not afraid of the Afterlife?

To paraphrase a famous saying, this life is just a dream and when you die you wake up meaning that this wordly life is not important. This life lasts for say, at most, 100 odd years. After that you die. What are a 100 years compared with the eternity of the Next Life? And one`s condition in THAT life depends on whether one had iman or not? THAT is why i quoted what I did.

* * *

fawad --i enjoyed your posts and agree with a lot of it but i will reply to them individually later. insha Allah.

Of course, I cannot agree with your contention that a state must be secular to ensure the happiness of its inhabitants.

Read articles by Hamza Yusuf.

* * *