The Hindu Right

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re: zafar`s post

i agree with him 100 per cent .........i dont care if this guy wears a dot on his head and changes his name to arjun my main point after the gujrat massacre to appoint a person of muslim origin to the ceremonial position ..he wonderful noncommunal BJP ever thinkof giving this guy a portfolio with powe and please dont tell me his was minister of science that position has little if no power............advani got internal security ---a right wing hindu fanatic who saysistan and india should unite like east and west germany who has shown no connection to the muslim community is a way of deflecting criticism of being biased against gujrat and this guy has played into the BJP `s hand ..........aleph null stated in a such a condescending way it helps to get my facts are straight here are some :

1) kalam was appointed by the BJP and is part of a BJP govt ............whether or not he belongs to the party is irrelevant he has accepted the job.......

2) kalam ascended to the post after allegations of indirect support by the BJP govt in gujrat and the failure of the federal govt to intervene

3) kalam didnt speak out about gujrat ..........again aleph null pointed out that did i consider that he didnt speak out against kashmir terrorism by pakistan........or that kalam should speak out against violence against all indians........this is a cheap cop out ...........if this guy in any felt a connection to his community religuous or not if he didnt speak out against gujrat he harbors some kind of latent dislike of muslims ........aka self-hating if there was a racial riot in LA and blacks were slaughtered and colin powell didnt speak how many black people do you think will accept that the man is ``black`` .....lets be real and not hide behind politcally correct screens like aleph nulls thats what kalam an acceptable politically correct muslim who goes out of his way not to be muslim

also disregard the above cuz i have lack of reading comp and english grammar amazing for a guy with 750 on verbal no?

dost-mittar #68

My suggestion is that perhaps it would be helpful to use the secular symbols and constitution of the indian state against the hindu fanatics. I understand that individuals traumatized by violence against them are going to struggle to survive and to have any faith at all in the indian state. What they choose to do is their business.

I am referring to a broader strategy. Martin Luther King Jr. embraced the broader inclusivist message of the US constitution and created an image and vision where middle-class americans understood that he represented the spirit of the U.S. Could he not have spent his entire life in anger and revenge-taking? Instead, he created a movement that helped changed US society deeply.

My suggestion is that the constitution, ideals and symbols of the indian state have a similar inclusive character. And that smart people should use it against fanatics --- and at the same time communicate to the broader indian public their participation in indian national life.

Dost Mittar #47

as somebody put it correctly.

Kalam is a showpiece for crimes of BJP.

But I read current Indian politics as differently.

India has lot of potential as far as world powers are concerned, especially in trade. (Western powers are motivated by only this).

With the India of Nehru, a Nationalistic progressive country they cannot pursue a one way aim. crumbs for Indians and lacs for them.

The division of Indian society, along all lines will be very beneficial for their aims. And who can fulfil this dream better than RSS-BJP.

Although it looks like to be a long way, where India can be placed at par with Pakistan for Western vested interest. But stick and carrot in economic terms can do the trick.

The current joint exercise of Armed forces of India with USA, is in the direction of more Army interference in affairs of state.

The recent rebuff by Indians to USA on Kashmir, may not last long.

Lets hope, my presumptions are wrong.

Because although I am not a big fan of Hinduvta sickness. But I am a big fan of Nehru who laid the foundation of India`s greatness, and self respect.

All Pakistani spies and tokens! - read carefully, let every word, every bit of imagery, envelope and transport you - you know, really FEEL it:

Business Recorder - dtd today

``RSS planned Gujarat riots well ahead

ISLAMABAD (August 09 2002) : ``People of villages and cities get ready and celebrate next Holi with the corpses of Muslims,`` says a chilly message of the Hindu extremist Party RSS in a pamphlet distributed in Indian state of Gujarat.

``There is still time for you to go to Pakistan if you want to. We do not want to leave a single Muslim alive in Gujarat.``

The timing of the pamphlets in the city was eerie. They were just in time before the occurrence of Godhra incident, wherein a train carrying Hindu pilgrims was set alight. A forensic report later disclosed that the fire started from within.

The incident led to the most gruesome incidents of mass murders and killings of more than 5000 Muslims, rape of around 1000 girls and women, destruction of 26,200 houses and loot and plunder of 21,100 shops.

Each passing day adds to the evidence that the Gujarat riots were planned months in advance.

Gujarat Chief Minister, Narendra Modi, justified the slaughter of innocent Muslim by repeatedly referring to the riots as a ``reaction`` to the Godhra incident.

However, Human Rights groups, Western Diplomats and media points out that these riots were in no way spontaneous but a pre-planned massacre.

British officials in India say the recent widespread violence in the Indian state of Gujarat was pre-planned and carried out with the support of the state government. In an internal report obtained by the BBC, British official say the violence had all the hallmarks of ethnic cleansing.

``The aim was to purge Muslims from Hindu areas,`` said a report prepared by the British official, which was leaked out to the press on April 25. 2002.

The National Human Rights Commission Interim Report mentioned that here were ``widespread reports and allegations that groups of well-organised persons, armed with mobile telephone and addresses, were singling out certain homes and properties for death and destruction in certain districts.``

Many Muslim industrialists gave non-Muslim names to their establishments so that they were not readily identified as Muslim properties but yet these establishments were targeted.

The role of the Gujarat State Government (the BJP) is more sinister than it seems, as members of Anti-Muslim Hate Organisations like, the RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal and associated organisations have penetrated state institutions and organisations.

According to reports ``Gujarat Chief Minister, Narendara Modi is a pracharak (preacher) in RSS. Minister of State for Home, Zadaphia is a VHP activist. The Governor of Gujarat who could not send a report to the Centre on the happenings in Gujarat, S.S. Bhandari, is also a PBS leader.``

Police postings and transfers up to the rank of Deputy Superintendent of Police are decided upon by the local PBS leaders. PBS activists are favoured and officers who are neutral and secular are punished and transferred. Over the last 5 years as many as 12,000 VHP workers have been inducted in the state Home Guards.

These police officers have actively aided the mobs. Video footage seen by the fact-finding team showed slogan`s like, `Yeh andar ki baat hai, police hamare saath hai` (The inside story is that the police is on our side) written boldly on the walls of gutted Muslim homes.

A pattern that was often repeated was that the police would open fire at the Muslims rather than at the attacking mob. On February 26, out of the 40 persons shot dead by the police in Ahmadabad city, 36 were Muslims.

The police simply refused to lodge FIRs. Almost after two months of pressure, the Government began to register FIRs related to murder and arson at the refugee camps but refused to acknowledge -rape and sexual assault.

Not a singe FIR in Ahmadabad has been recorded by the police. No special women`s cell has been set up to register the complaints of the women traumatised by mass-rape, and narrow escape from death.

The former Congress MP, Iqbal Ehsan Jafri was burnt alive along with his family members (barring his brave wife who managed to escape the wrath of the marauders).

Police officials confirmed that Jafri had made frantic telephone calls to the Director General of police, the Police Commissioner, the Chief Secretary, the Additional Chief Secretary (Home) and others. But the city police did not intervene, The rioters broke into his house, stripped and raped his daughters and then burnt them alive along with their father.

The list of similar gruesome incidents seems unending. According to Farzana Bano in Ahmadabad she and her family were asked to leave for safety. ``People from the Hindu Housing Society told us to take shelter in their houses. There were only men in there and the women and children had been sent away for safety. They started beating us with sticks, hockey sticks and pipes. Than a big mob armed with sharp weapons, kerosene and petrol cans attacked us.

All adult males were then beaten, thrown on the ground and burnt.

The residents of the Gopinath Society segregated Muslim girls and made them stand on one side. ``They were raped as we watched, The girls screamed so loud that even now when I remember my blood boils.. The girls were then burnt.``

According to another witness, ``a mob of 5,000 came and we started running. We were cornered from all the sides. SRP (State Reserve Police) personnel were also chasing us. The mob caught hold of my husband and hit him on his head twice with the sword. They threw petrol in his eyes and then burned him. My sister-in-law was stripped and raped. She had three-month baby in her lap. They threw petrol on her and the child from her lap was thrown in the fire.

These ghastly incidents were the brainchild of the Anti-Muslim Hate Organisation RSS. The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, established in 1925 based upon an ideology that closely resembles Fascism. It promotes the racial supremacy of the Aryan race and considers all other races and religions, except that of the Brahmins and upper-caste Hindus, as the enemies.

To fulfil its evil motives, the RSS beguiles the common masses by declaring Muslims as enemies of the Hindus and promotes ideas such as, ``if Hindus did not take adequate steps against the Muslims, their religion and lives will be in danger.``

Members of the PBS also assassinated Mahatma Gandhi because he was tolerant towards the Muslims in India. RSS was banned and its leaders arrested. Since then the PBS has been busy trying to infiltrate cultural and educational institutions to spread its ideology.

It also formed many hate organisations like the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (S/HP), Bajrang Dal and Shivsena whose members were responsible in the demolition of the Babri Masjid.

Ban restrictions prevented the PBS from entering politics, so it formed the Bharatiya Jan Sangh (BJS) now known as Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP).

The BJP has always used communalism to come to power one issue amongst them being the issue of the Babri Masjid.

In India, every Muslim now is construed as a spy working for Pakistan, using this excuse they raid Mosques and Muslim universities.

The Chief Minister of Gujarat, Narendra Modi and Union Home Minister L.K. Advani immediately after the Sabarmati Train incident branded the train fire as 1S1 and Pakistani inspired without any evidence or inquiry.

More such lies were deliberately spread by the government to incite the Hindus to commit heinous crimes against the Muslim citizens. Gujarati Media constantly showed images of the train carnage and published false report of two women being abducted and gang raped by Muslims during the Sabarmati Express incident.

The police investigated the story, searched the village and found it baseless. However, the publication of this story in the press was enough to provoke hatred against the Muslims. The vicious propaganda against the Muslims was only to incite hate against the Muslims and a matter of telling the PBS members what they should do with Muslim women.-APP``

Please apply to Zafar, for explanations, apologies, admonitions, remedies(Hinduization) - democractic, pluralistic, diverse societies require homogenization.

Music, sweet, sweet music...

Excellent used, forged green passports available, cheap - for references, see Al kaydah - ``turks`` make separate arrangements.

Zafar Al-Talib

Quite right Zafar! - The problem of India are Muslims. It Is Muslims who are the ``Driver`` - It`s all a conspiracy, the Mahabasa has no problem but this. They breed like rats, they are foreigners, invaders, not indian, loyalty tests for them, special privelages for them. After all, they are the ones who are really in power in India. Music, sweet music. Let a thousand flowers bloom. Music, baaby.

How do you think this might be resolved, what are, to your thinking, workable solutions? What ought Muslims do to not be victimized but still maintain their rights as equal citizens?

arjun miaN:

That was a question -- for my mitter saheb -- but you may have raised a pertinent point-- should Jinnah be blamed for what happened in Bangladesh?

attention -- dost-mitter ji please -- now this should be an easy one for you.....

``I`ll be supporting a Democrat for governor and another for Congress this Novemeber!.... Hope this admission redeems me further!

You`ve redeemd yourself -- sigalph miaN -- bravo!

Reply Hobbes # 51

“The article is about the Hindu Right and the rise of facism in India - yet Indian interlocutors, the chauvanists, the statists and the tokens collectors want to discuss only Muslims and Islam in India.”

Perhaps because THE driver for the Hindu Right’s rise is how they perceive and define the role Indian Muslims play and have historically played in India, and how they market this pov.

Reply Sigalph235 # 52

“You gentlemen will be pleased to know that I`ll be supporting a Democrat for governor and another for Congress this Novemeber! (The GOP governor nominee looks like Hitler and talks like an abject fool; the Democratic House nominee is good friend). Hope this admission redeems me further!”

…speechless…all my christamases have come at once…

Reply arjun_m # 53

“Um..would you blame jinnah for the paki armies crimes in bangladesh?”

Why not? I blame him for the caste system, dowry deaths, UTI going down and, of course, Kalam’s haircut. (Except on Tuesdays and Thursdays when I blame Gandhi for the Taliban, honour killings in Pakistan and Lodhi’s beehive – cr RSax.)

Reply Alephnull

“…I surmise that you may have occasional problems with logic - or with English grammar - or with reading comprehension.“

Remind me not to irritate you.

Reply Dost-Mittar # 47

“The main reason for disowning Kalam is that he has refused to disown his pre-Islamic heritage.”

I would have thought that the main reason to question Kalam’s appointment is his (hypothetical?) willingness to be used as whitewash by the BJP to paint their antiminority position a more inclusive colour. That’s far more important than whether he reads the Gita or Joan Collins, no?

Reply Asif # 46

“My concern--and the raison d`etre of my posts is that in light of the recent massacres of Muslims in India by the Hindus, what should they do to protect themselves? It is my contention that only uniting under the Islamic banner can protect them.”

I appreciate your motivation – your concern for Indian Muslims is commendable. Going beyond the broadly theoretical, however:

What do you mean, however, by “uniting under the Islamic banner”?

How is this going to safeguard Indian Muslim lives?

Last time this happened politically was before Partition, and that resulted in the second largest loss of Muslim life on the subcontinent EVER, and we aren’t even looking at the deprivation and suffering of those who survived.

What about building bridges with decent non-Muslim Indians who also want a peaceful and prosperous country?

What about all those areas where different Muslim groups in India have different interests? If we are going to settle these issues democratically, aren’t we just reproducing a smaller version of the Indian Parliament, and to little good because in the end all the people of India have to be involved in solutions, not just Muslims, right?

Reply Nasah # 35

“where did you get all this monumental patience”

Missionary school.

alephnull

i know one thing ....you didnt call me an islamist you certainly implied it....... now you called me a moron ....ooops i have occasional lapses of reading comp and judgement.... since i am not worthy of your intellectual calibre i will refrain from responding to your posts since you clearly have evinced a supercilious attitude id rather not respond to you id ask you to do the same