The Hindu Right

Welcome to Chowk! This was a very good article--however I am afraid that voices like yours are fast becoming the minority in India and I really feel that the Muslims of India are about to face a even more torrid time than they have already.

I appreciate your candour and honesty though in exposing the truth about the HR. Alas, I don`t think voices like yours will be heeded.

I am what you would probably call a member of the Muslim Right in my views. I prefer to call myself a Traditionalist. I am a British -Pakistani and I cannot see how the Muslims of India can protect themselves in the future from further state sponsored pogroms and discrimination.

The only solution I can think of is for them to unite politically (is their no major Muslim political arm in India?), and maintain a low profile. However I fear that they will have to arm themselves and fight fire with fire (since the HR understand no other language) and thus take a lesson from their Palestinian brothers who are resisting Israeli occupation. (To the credit of the Jews they have--as yet--to descend to the level of the barbarity of the HR; after all they ARE monotheists...)

The only other hope I can see is for the Muslim World to intervene on their behalf but that--given our leaders at present--seems only a pipe-dream. Still we can only hope insha Allah...that a united, Islamic, Muslim world will emerge soon and more to our topic a united, strong Islamic Pakistan which will see it as its duty to protect its fellow Muslims in India. Perhaps the Arabs will use their oil weapon to compel the HR to stop its pogroms...But these are long term goals...

Perhaps the ISI (and Mujahideen) can do something like they did in the riots of the early 90s in Bombay? (I have read that it was they who were responsible for the bomb blasts which finally put an end to the killing of Muslims. Perhaps they should start to target the leaders of the HR beginning with Advani. I am sure once their leaders are killed the ordinary people wont have much appetite for Ram Raj.)

I pray for a leader to arise in India from the Muslims who can unite them...



I fear for the future of Muslims in India...

May Allah hasten the arrival of The Mahdi alayhisalam.

amin.

Ay KhaaS e khaaSan e Rusul * waqt e dua hai

Ummat pe teri aaj ajab waqt aan paRa hai...

Jo qawm baRee dhoom se niklee thee watan se

Pardes mein aaj woh ghareeb ul ghuraba hai

*sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam

:-(

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Sometimes this is too much. I feel like crying at times when I read about how cruelty can blacken the hearts of men.

To my Indian friends, I must make an appeal here: Please do not take this as criticism of the Hindu traditions, India or Indian entity and Identity. It is a critique of the Indian Administration and Indian Government. There is no point starting a war here. Please think twice before you respond to this article.Indian Muslims are just as Indian as anyone else in that country. There are known issues and problems that need to be worked on. Citation of sources from either sides to refute or affirm charges is not going to do anyone any good. I would suggest that the Muslims of India need to do some reflection of their own. They need to set an agenda for the next generation of Indian Muslims and they need to make sure that the priorities and aspirations of India as a nation (not necessarily the governement) find a high place of mention in there. Unfortunately Muslims in India will have to do that without any hope of reciprocal show of goodwill from the Hindu Extremists.

I am reminded of an incident that occured in the early political life of Gandhi where he had a Catholic priest visit him from South Africa who admired Gandhi for his views. Gandhi had him admitting at the end of the meeting that he (the priest) would be more of an admirer if Gandhi was catholic.



That is the situation with the Hindu right. They are not going to be happy until all the Muslims convert to Hinduism. That is one thing that they have in common with the Muslim Extremists.

But I am sure that an initiative on the part of the Muslims in India will encourage the enlightened majority of Hindu community within India. I am placing the onus on the Muslims in this case because those are unfortunately the cards that they have been dealt. They are a minority. They are economically weak. They are the last of all communities in education. They have to face the realities with a stout heart. Unfortunately, I personally am not able to do much but I intend to do what I can when I find the ability to do so. Until then, I hope I can be joined by the like minded people among the Hindu community in helping to get us all together for the putting out of the communal fires that threaten to burn all of us.

re: asif

...some of your buddies got a free cruise to guantanamo bay...delicious food, new clothes, and lots of onboard activities...interested?...

Why am i not surprised that bigots like Asif Naqshbandi, who are the exact equivalent of the Singhal and Togadia types, are quick to jump in with their sectarian prayers ! I guess it takes a thief to catch a thief.

This is a good article. It would be better if it did not brush off the Shah Bano decision as a minor issue. As M. J. Akbar has correctly pointed out, this deeply foolish intervention by muslim politicians helped convince a large number of middle-of-the road indians that the muslim leadership had only the narrowest and most sectarian interest in india. Basically, these foolish leaders ultimately helped to trap their own community.

Ra Ravishankar

Mr./Ms. Ravishankar:

What are the general principles at work here? This piece has many specifics, many particulars, yet I must say, that I am not sure I have become aware of the general intellectual foundations for such ideas as, blaming present Muslim Indians for event of the distant past, of for the feeling of inferiority by Hindus? What impications does the rise of this facism have for notions that in the past 10-15 years india has ``progressed``? What implications for the nature of education imparted to indians? What is it in the Hindu Indians that finds a comfort in such ideas, especially as it relates to hatred and violence against the Muslim? Are be not bound by conscience, to understand these and to apply an appropriate ``marham`` on these instead of all these particulars?

What are intellectual foundations of ideas of Gora and kaala? How is it that such objectionable notions have gained legitimacy among seemingly educated Indian persons? On the basis of which intellectual foundations is it OK to posit propositions as racist when utter by some western or non-Hindu person, but entirely respected when uttered in reverse by Hindu persons? is this not related to notion of exclusivity and by extension to notions of caste?

While I share your concern and conscience, I am not entirely sure I understand why the constitution ought not be revisited? After all, does the constitution not bear any responsibility for the failures we are witness to? Shall indian persons continue to believe that HR has more valid more potent ideas than any other stake holders?

Modern day Hindu Indians, generally, hold Muslims responsible for the break up of india, even today, the threat of breaking up is deposited on the doorstep of the Muslim, yet clearly, facts do not support such a conclusion, exactly the opposite - why then do such ideas have such a strong appeal in India?

Please help me understand why more Hindu indians, who actually hold hinduism as a religion or expression of religiosity as opposed to a nationalist identity - why is it that they don`t fear what may be the effect on this religion? Where nationalism and religious identity are indistingushable?

An excellent, timely article. Today, there is no greater challenge to the soul of India than the recent rise of Hindu fascism. This misguided movement is a threat to every Indian, Hindu or Muslim. All Indians of conscience must oppose this and such movements in every possible way.

Arjun M, Asif

From the SriKrishna report:

http://www.altindia.net/Srikrishna%20Report/volume1/CHAPTER%20VI.html

i) One common link between the riots of December 1992 and January 1993 and Bomb Blasts of 12th March 1993 appear to be that the former appear to have been a causative factor for the latter. There does appear to be a cause and effect relationship between the two riots and the serial bomb blasts.

ii) Another common link is that some of the accused who were involved in substantive riot-related offences were also accused in the serial bomb blasts case, though their number is only three or four.

iii) Tiger Memon, the key figure in the serial bomb blasts case and his family had suffered extensively during the riots and therefore can be said to have had deep rooted motive for revenge. It would appear that one of his trusted accomplices, Javed Dawood Tailor @ Javed Chikna, had also suffered a bullet injury during the riots and therefore he also had a motive for revenge. Apart from these two specific cases, there was a large amorphous body of angry frustrated and desperate Muslims keen to seek revenge for the perceived injustice done to and atrocities perpetrated on them or to others of their community and it is this sense of revenge which spawned the conspiracy of the serial blasts. This body of angry frustrated and desperate Muslims provided the material upon which the anti-national and criminal elements succeeded in building up their conspiracy for the serial bomb blasts.

viii) whether the incidents referred to in term (i) and in term (vi) were part of a common design.

i) There is no material placed before the Commission indicating that the riots during December 1992 and January 1993 and the serial blasts were part of a common design. In fact, this situation has been accepted by Mahesh Narain Singh who was heading the team of investigators who investigated into the serial bomb blasts case. He also emphasizes that the serial bomb blasts were a reaction to the totality of events at Ayodhya and Bombay in December 1992 and January 1993 and the Commission is inclined to agree with him.

Asif

In democracies political parties grow up in response to needs. It is indeed notable that there is no India-wide political party which campaigns on “Muslim-focused” issues and which gets the Muslim vote. (There is no such party in the UK either, is there?) What you may not be familiar with is the fact that studies show (you can find them either on tehelka.com or outlookindia.com, I forget which) that there is no discernible difference between the way Muslims and Hindus vote in most parts of India – this seems to indicate that the issues Hindus and Muslims find important are largely the same ones. Just something to think about when discussing representation in a democracy.

(For example, are Muslims the only people in India who should be concerned that a State Government turns its head the other way when violence against Muslims takes place? Clearly not, right? The Government’s failure is of concern to everyone – first of all for the morality of the issue, secondly enlightened self interest. Muslims today, but who will it be tomorrow?)

Do you believe that the legal rights and freedoms you enjoy as a Muslim from the UK are the result of the Muslim World blackmailing the Brits into extending equal rights to you, or do they spring from a political system which is now indigenous to Britain?

“Perhaps the Arabs will use their oil weapon to compel the HR to stop its pogroms...But these are long term goals...”

I don’t think that this would be a particularly long-lived solution, but I must ask: why a long term goal? The world has already seen an Arab oil embargo, it is not a new thing, in fact it is the one thing that the Arab oil producing states can do easily. So far they have not done any such thing, in fact they haven’t even downgraded ties with India. I cannot help wondering if your hope for Islamic solidarity is based on an understanding of the world that most Muslims do not share.

“Perhaps the ISI (and Mujahideen) can do something like they did in the riots of the early 90s in Bombay? (I have read that it was they who were responsible for the bomb blasts which finally put an end to the killing of Muslims. Perhaps they should start to target the leaders of the HR beginning with Advani. I am sure once their leaders are killed the ordinary people wont have much appetite for Ram Raj.)”

Ram Rajya (note spelling) refers to the reign of the King Ram (whose story is told in the Ramayana). It is a enduring motif in Indian thought, with the belief that under Ram the land was governed justly, that there was no corruption, discrimination or oppression, that the weak were protected from the strong. Ram Rajya has entered the political vocabulary of India (as have terms like “agnipariksha”, or “Lakshman rekha”), but unfortunately some take it to mean the Hindutva vision for India. That is in fact incorrect – Ram Rajya means what it always has. The Hindutva vision for India is demonstrably NOT Ram Rajya, regardless of what they might claim.

That said, I think that the motif of Ram Rajya – and the people’s desire for just governance – is not going to go away. Nor do I find it an unreasonable, or bad, desire – rather, it is entirely understandable. It is in fact exactly what most Indian Muslims want, though we may call it by a different name.

I am not telling you that your point of view is right or wrong – merely requesting that you think these issues through and see how the answers affect your stance.

Regards

Reply pmishra2 # 5

“This is a good article. It would be better if it did not brush off the Shah Bano decision as a minor issue. As M. J. Akbar has correctly pointed out, this deeply foolish intervention by muslim politicians helped convince a large number of middle-of-the road indians that the muslim leadership had only the narrowest and most sectarian interest in india.”

A whole set of actions in this vein (most recent the AIMPLB saying that Muslims should not be subject to the prevention of child marriages act because sharia allows child marriages – I cld WEEP!) also resulted, IMO, in IMs who are not midieval in their outlook taking themselves to other forums and arenas - to some extent leaving speaking for the “community” in the hands of these clowns. In taking and using our own freedom from the ghetto, something which we could do in most parts of India without difficulty, did we fail those whom we left behind by failing to combat ignorance, but merely contenting ourselves with ignoring it?

Some queries:

1. Has anyone responsible for the earlier Ayodhya killings, and the recent Gujrat killings been prosecuted? Indian courts seem to be quite free. Why aren`t they prosecuting the guilty parties?

2. Are there any moderate religious parties in India? Or is the only counter to the BJP a secular Congress, or secular provincial parties? This is why I am opposed to forcing secularism (or religionism) down the throats of societies at a stage when they are not ready for it. It results in extreme backlashes. It makes it very easy for the extremist parties (either secularatics or religionatics), as opposed to the moderate parties, to get the public emotional.

3. If Indians can vote out the BJP completely, then Indian society will have progressed by leaps and bounds. If the BJP is not voted out of power and out of opposition, then Indian Muslims specifically, and India as a whole, are in big trouble. It will indicate that the BJP is not an extremist party, since it is not on the extremes. It is a mainstream party, and not a passing phenomenon.

In such a case, I think the only party that could counter the BJP would be a large moderate, but religious Hindu party. I don`t think secular parties will then be able to take on the BJP, since the BJP`s whole strategy is to point out that secular parties have catered too much to the Muslim community. What happens if the BJP forms the oppostion after the next election?

5. Also, why do Indians seem so surprised at what the BJP has done? The BJP itself stated its policies in its own manifesto, again and again. And the manifesto has been published on the Internet for years. If Congress would have done something like this, one could understand the surprise, but why the surprise at the BJP? It is only doing what it stated it would do. Infact, what it is doing is still a watered down version of what it wanted to do.

6. Finally, even more important than the BJP, is the social condition of the Indian Muslims. I had one Indian describe this to me as a ticking time bomb. I would appreciate an objective reply from any Indian explaining whether the Indian Muslims are so far behind the Indian Hindus, that they have completely missed the bus, or not. And if this economic and educational gap is going to continue to increase, with the Hindus making progress, and the Muslims remaining stagnant or going backwards, then how does India plan to handle this, ``ticking time bomb,`` in the next decades? Specially when a party like the BJP is in power, which probably doesn`t seem to mind a backwards Muslim population.

7. And final question: it seems like the BJP is being defeated in the provincial elections everywhere. Is this because Indians are fed up with BJP`s extremist policies, or is it because the BJP hasn`t been an economic success, i.e. if the BJP had been able to be corruption-free and had continued high economic growth, would the mostly Hindu population of the provinces ignored BJP`s anti-Muslim policies and voted for it?

Any replies will be appreciated.....

Asif Naqshbandi -- did you have to jump in and muddy this debate with your two bit stupid Pan Islamic crap.

British citizen -- big deal -- didn`t do you much good either -- like Saeed.

The fact that this column was written by a Hindu Indian about the wretched, pathetic, bloody thirsty criminals of the Hindu Right -- who prey upon the poor and the weak -- is a testimony that the secular health of India is fine and dandy -- despite the temporary ascendency of murderers and thugs like Advanis in Indian politics.

hasan

Ra Ra`s support of Art.370 is yet another moronic manifestation of his highness. Art.370 among other things prevents anyone but a ``son-of-soil`` of J&K from owning immovable property within the State. If a daughter of the State marries an ``outsider`` she loses the right to the aforesaid right. By no stretch of imagination can this wretched piece of legislation - actually a temporary device according to its Statement of Objects and Reasons - have anything to do with India`s ``secular character`` or whatever. That Ra Ra chooses to quote the mendacious provocateur AG Noorani shows up his diatribe for the drivel it is. On the question of Coimbatore Ra Ra should not speak for the residents of that fair town. The incident that sparked the violence in the first place was the murder of a constable in plain-clothes by two anti-socials (who can be nominally termed Muslim). When the police went to arrest the perps they were attacked. The subsequent bomb blasts were aimed at Advani on his visit to make an election-related address in the city. LKA had a narrow escape. As for the police in Calcutta - the less said the better. The police of West Bengal are virtually the uniformed branch of the CPI-M. Even senior officers take their orders from party hacks - like in the days of the Old USSR!

The Uniform Civil Code proposed in the Directive Principles of State Policy is yet another brilliant proposal from B.R. Ambedkar. Ambedkar was unequivocal about being Indian, and said, ``I do not want that our loyalty as Indians should be in slightest way affected by any competitive loyalty whether that loyalty arises out of our religion, out of our culture, out of our language. I want all people to be Indian first, Indian last and nothing else.``

Asif #1 So I see you have not changed one whit over the past several months. Still seeking mullah rule. Here is what happened since we last exchanged notes: The Pakistanis are getting ready to hang one of your fellow Pakistani-British scum. He will no doubt save a seat for you in hell and await your arrival.

Until then, enjoy your life as a British citizen, protected by the same society that you reject, but which you or your parents no doubt lined up once to be allowed to live in.

Asif #1 That fellow scumbag I mention in my post below incidentally is omar sheikh, in case you are wondering.

nasah forgive me im going to indulge in a crass poltical generalization : you indians muslims come in 2 types : apologists for the current order (such as you ) and self-hatining to boot like your buddy kalam ..........and fanatics................you prove my point with your every post

ps if you think india is secular then pakistan is free of terrorism and violence