What Went Wrong With Devdas

The cinematography was excellent. The visuals excellent. Good talent. But the main ingredient was missing....the plot??? The movie was based purely on emotion (lust, love, anger, depression, etcetera), there was unfortunately no story line whatsoever.

Banjaara: You are right about rachna meaning creation and not melody as I mistakenly said in my last post.

Regarding the poets, you mentioned, Amir Khusro can not be called Urdu poet because he lived in an era, prior to the development of Urdu. The era of delhi Soltanate was mostly Turkish, the currency was called Teghe as in many central Asian republics now. Urud owes more to Persian influence of Afghans, who only ruled through Lodhi dynasty and later for a brief period under Sher Shah Suri. It was during Akbar that Persian replaced Turkish and he translated even his grandfather Babar`s autobiography, Tuzk-e-Babri into Persian. Amir Khusro lived through Tughlaq dynasty and must be considered Hindustani poet rather than Urdu.

If you can make a list of second level poets who wrote comparatively simple, yet for first class poets like Mir Taqi Mir and Dard, the topics were not different than elite topics. Akbar Alabadi and Ismail Meerathi did produce poetry about common things interested to common people.

As a good indicator, the freedom of poem offers more to say about the topics of common people than ghazal because of the ghazal limitations and poet focusing on himself and his romantic thoughts. The poet goes on to put his name in the last verse to make sure, it is his creation and his thoughts. You have to find poets who wrote more poems than ghazals to make a point against elitism of Urdu poetry. Mir, Ghalib and Dard are not poem writers.

Except for Urdu, Ghazal is really a small and insignificant area in world-wide poetry right now. Have you heard of Bengali, Tamil, Gujrati or Punjabi ghazals? In these languages ghazals are often written by second and third rate poets.

SameerJB # 152

[besides Rachna in Hindi means melody.]

Sameer Jee,

Rachna in Hindi means creation and not melody.

This was kinda shocking to me in view of your boastful claim of knowing more than any other Pakistani about Hind,Hindi and Hindu.

BTW,I am awaiting your response to my query in

#150 about the Urdu poetry,which in your expert

opinion is `elitist`.

Regards.

anNy: yeh kia ho raha hey? You alrady have the name of the child. I do not know what your real name is but, Qurat-Ul-Ain is definitely not a good idea. Nobody in US will be able to pronounce it. It has to be simple, with similarity to some western name. For example, Karuna and Saraswati. They both can be reduced to Karen and Sara. Another one of my favorite is Rachna, because I come from the land between rivers Ravi and Chenab and it is called Rachna doaba, besides Rachna in Hindi means melody.

Anyway, I do not mind talking about such things but one has to be very careful to make sure where fun and joke part ends and where serious talk starts. Sometimes people get confused and read all of it seriously. Between you and I, it is easy. You are much younger than me and you know it. That is why I have no problem writing sweetie as well as sweatheart to you and discussing anything and everything. Otherwise, internet romance, invisible lover and beloved using different nicknames, blind dates and arranged marriages are not my favorites. Moreover, my history of romance is not an attractive one for serious women. My average romantic relationship per individual has been pretty short.

Sorry to hear about the cracks in your room. I hope it is not serious. Make sure to get assessment of the danger from some professional architect.

Another thing about me is that I hate potatoes. Damn potatoes are everywhere I go to eat. No matter what you order, french fries, meshed potatoes or baked one is always there facing you. Same goes with American brands bleneded cheeses. They are tasteless and just a big dose of cholesterol. What a waste of life. Growing up in Pakistan with aloo gosht, aloo palak, aloo matar, aloo methi, aloo gajar, aloo ki bhujia, aloo hi aloo in short and ending up with french fries, meshed potatoes and baked potatoes. The only dish made from potatoes I like takes long time to cook in humid and warm atmosphere so that fermentation can takes place. It is called Vodka.

How is life? Happy?

chaaaallo jee...someone oughta slash the damn grapevine with a serrated knife...`Sameer? oh he`s a love`...`Bohat shy aur quiet hae sameer tau`..ae tau shyness kee intiha hogayee :)...so sunain, kuch sadian beeti hain keh i am sitting under the open sky with the object of my affection..okay so its not the open sky and my object is far away but i have those little glow in the dark suns and moons and stars on my ceiling and does it really matter?..i ask about you and say i must meet up sometime and maybe even con u into buying me kfc..forementioned cutie says munching loudly on fries with extra cheese that just smell really bad `i-sameer? he`s harmless...nice dude infact...mae bhi aaoongaa`..tau mae caveman kee iss baat par baree khush hoee...id like to hear the little rabbit say that now..this was ofcourse, fiction..its almost two nights since i slept last tau im a little woozy and distorted sa fiction...aur mae syed thoree sameer saab...regular shia i am..jhangli, emotional, over type u know...i think 5 generations or so ago my family must have been ismaili, jew or smthg..kaafi kanjoos ancestors iv had, they skipped on the cement and the havaeli is slowly disintegrating...my room developed a huge crack only last night..syed tau bohat dramae hotae hain...charas tau aisae khatae hain jaisae mithai ho..humn converts ziada achae hain...waisae aap hee kuch sharam karlain, ure tau like my abba...aap ana par hit karrain, uss ko aik doe mahinae kee courtship kae baad milnae jaain aur phir mumsie ko kahain ammajaaan aaj zamanae mae razia batoolain short hain, unhain raazi kar keh shaadi bhi karlain aur phir pehlae bachae ka naam anNy rakhain...yae musalmaan naam bhi hae aur christian bhi, all your problems solved..ya?

ana:

have you not heard of PLANES *hits head with pillow *

k:

i only devour

SameerJB # 145

[Take, for example, Urdu poetry. Three things stand out: 1) trying to make it difficult to understand for average person by using extensive Persian language,]

How would you describe the poetry of Amir Khusro, Vali Daccani,Khwaja Meer Dard, Meer Taqi Meer,

Ismail Meeruthi,Nazeer Akbarabadi,and Khumar Barabankavi.

Regards.

Harpreet: Manpreet Akhtar is sister of singer late Mohammad Dilshad Akhtar. I am not sure if Manpreet is her given name or adopted, like Dilip Kumar, and I do not know if she practices anything. She is married to one Sanjeev, sounds Hindu name.

similarly Puran Shahkoti does not sound Muslim name but he is the father of Shahzada Salim, previously famous as Master Saleem.

I saw the movie and I liked it! Story was typical... to most desi movies... costumes and music and dancing were great! It was much better than a lot of the pseudo-western Indian movies full of Michael Jackson style dancing that is prevalent in the majority of Bollywood flicks...

Fozia

Sameer;

[Manpreet Akhtar are Punjabi Muslims...]

- Manpreet Akhtar?? Wow, that is a Sikh name, whats the story with ``Manpreet``??

I have never heard of a Muslim Punjabi with a Sikh name before, but my fathers name is Ajaib Singh, and I had an argument with a Pakistani lady friend once because her fathers name is also Ajaib, she insisted it is Muslim I said Sikh. Maybe it is just Punjabi, like ``Iqbal`` (I also had an uncle called Iqbal Singh).

-h-

Dearest AnNy: ????

Thanks for unsolicited recommendation letter. How come you think that I am not interested in you and interested in others? Are you trying to get rid of me by pushing me to ana.....:-)). You did make me smile. Sweetheart, I will say, ``I Love You`` to you before anybody else at chowk even if you are a Gujju, Syed, Shia, Mohajir and my fate is temporarily tied to Her Chinese Highness from the House of Chak No. 10-Fujiang, Tehsil China Town, District NY. My mother would like Her Rajputani Highness some Musammat Razia Batool for me whereas I would like Her Jatti Highness from Sikh Middle Kingdom, sombody like Daljit Dhaliwal but she is already married. Monita Rajpal is not bad either but so far she has not made it to my dreams.

Sometime ago, I almost wrote I love you in a post to you but pata hey kia hoa woh bijli fail ho gai aur maiN bhool gaya. Phir aik din aur bus likhney he wala tha keh whiskey kambakht naiN pass out ker diya. Ab tum he bolo (sorry, Ab aap he bataiN) is maiN mera kya kasoor?

Kya khyal hey, ana aur tumhari laRai karwauN? Crusades all over? And who told you I am little. No, no, no, I am almost six.

AnNy, I am just kidding. All of the above is fiction. By the way, have you read, `` Sunshine in the Moonlight`` by Richard Axlerod? He is such a prolific writer. He connects the characters so loose in the beginging and so tightly by the time you get to last page. This book is so rare that only one copy exists; that is with me. hehehe.....I am just making up this one too as I type....

Love,

Sameer

ana: Did you flunk the quiz? AnNy? Who? Oh that AnNy but she is a Gujju and you are a Punjaban!!!!

AnNy: Gujju is not important, love transcends all else. Besides being a Syed, I might get to paradise with your cottail!!!

ana: All Syeds are fake. They cooked up their heritage for ulterior motives. Salvation is strictly through Jesus. In the name of father, the son and the holy......

AnNy: Islam is the final message from god and the best people to follow are panjtan pak and asna ashraa. Sunnis are stupid orthodox.

Jackie Lau: Buddha was the greatest of all. See Honey, he did not have to rely on mediocre conceptual construct!!!!

Samina: This is an issue we disagree, otherwise I am in almost total agreement with your secular/ liberal and progressive ideas. I hope this academic discussion will not change our mutual respect and admiration for each other.

In some way, I tend to agree with Ali1 here. It would have been understood if fantasy was post partition creation but that is not true. The extra-Indian identity was prevalent in UP, Hyderabad and MP due to terms like aslaf, ashrafiya, Urdu language, Urdu poetry, family trees and last names. It was actually a motivation for two-nation theory although fear of Hindu domination did play a significant role also.

Take, for example, Urdu poetry. Three things stand out: 1) trying to make it difficult to understand for average person by using extensive Persian language, 2) extensive use of metaphors and symbols related to a particular extra-Indian lifestyle such as saqi, maikhana, sharab, surahi and description of human beauty particularly neck, waist and eyes and 3) using male adjectives for describing beloved, by male poets.

Urdu poets trying to be not understood when the introduction of this article, ``All poetry should make sense in terms of living experience`` suggests. Isn`t this exclusiveness to which Urdu poetry is still suffering despite Progressive Writers Association and their efforts?

Saqi, maikhana, surahi, sharab and the way beauty of the beloved is described comes from Persian and Arabic cheap ``tamashbeen`` culture of the brothels and red light districts. These are the discarded, throw away and rejects of Arabic and Persian cultures, to which Urdu have fallen in love with, just like MB Qasim, Ghaznavi, Ghauri and Babar are not popular figures in their native lands. If hamidm tries to defend heeramandi, people ridicule him and call him Mohammad Surriya but when same thing is presented from Persia and Arabia, everybody goes wah wah wah. UP, Hyderababd and MP never had this culture to which classical and many postclassical poets have never come out.

It was considered bad poetry to say, ``ab aai ho to kia aai ho`` because it clearly defines female beloved. What is wrong with it? If instead, one says, ``tum aaye ho na shab-e-intezar guzri hey``, everybody goes wah wah wah, because the gender adjective(?) is male. This is also the leftover and throw away of Persian poetry due to cheapness of its origin. The reason is that woman and beauty was considered commodities in red light districts and therefore treated as such using male gender terminology.

The insistence of a distinct heritage came up repeatedly during ML annual and other sessions. The ML had to repeatedly stress that TNT does not differentiate between native and immigrant cultures of Muslims and that 90 percent of the Indian Muslims are descendants of native converts. This issue did not exist among Bengali and Punjabi Muslims, though many tribes cooked up their Middle Eastern origin.

Karakoram: Punjabi language is just one issue and I am not just one issue person as my posts represent, besides my interest in Punjab is made in USA and not Pakistan.

Dost-mittar: Gurdas Mann, Hans Raj Hans, Kuldip Manak, Harbhajan Mann, Ranjit Mani, Amrita Virk, Sardol Sikander, Surinder Shinda, Balkar Sidh, Babu Mann, Jagjit Singh, A. S. Kang, Sahotas, Safri Boyz are all Sikhs. Mahendra Kapoor, Baba Sehgal, Apache Indian, Chanchal are Hindus. Puran Shahkoti, M. Siddique, Dilshad Akhtar, Manpreet Akhtar are Punjabi Muslims. You are right about enriching of Punjabi with Hindi in I-Punjab and with Urdu in P-Punjab.

SameerJB,

Its good to see that you have gained some balance in your views on Punjab, Punjabi and Punjabiyat. How refreshing to hear you acknowledge the fact that it was the Punjabi Hindus that stabbed Punjabi and Punjaibyat in the arse to grab Haryana.

Dear Sirji, for the Hindoos, their religion (Bharat Mata) comes first and foremost.... for her sake they can screw -- Punjabiyat, Kashmiriyat, Insaniyat, Amreekiyat and any other yat that you can think of.

On your question regarding lack of affinity among mohajirs for their cultural kin in UP, here is my take.... basically, they is no cultural kinship b/w the two groups.... regardless of how you define culture.... language.... Urdu vs. Hindi, food.... Shami/Bihari/Seekh kabab vs. Daal/Bhaji, dress.... pajama vs. dhoti, heroes/icons.... Khilji/Ghouri vs. Ram/Hanuman.... there is nothing common except shared geography and maybe chewing paan ;-) and Pathans, Balochs and Punjabis in Karachi can chew pan with more isthyle than an average UP wala anyday, so no question of missing anything.

anNy luv :-)

[now ana, sometimes we need to take things in our own hands...im not very good at being cryptic am i? nevermind that..he knows everything (budhists, hair growth, enron, daler mehindi, scotch and elephants being stoned to name just a few) and is such a lovely little gentleman..he`s too well mannered no?..only bad thing is little overobsessed with this punjabi business..lakin poor dear is giving you lessons already...now dont get upset and tell me off or threaten pittaee, im only trying to get two warm souls to you know, meet...or does this only show how utterly bored and useless i have become?]

---useless, and you anNy luv? nevahhhhh!!!! And as impressed as I am by a man who knows everything (especially the scotch, the being stoned, and daahling, you forgot the reggae musique), how can we meet when we`re on opposite sides of the Atlantique (in my case..way opposite), khair, you as matchmaker will undoubtedly find a way..kya kehte hain, when there`s a will there`s a way?!?! And since you have appointed yourself as matchmaker (what`s the commission `nyways?!?!), perhaps you could be the one to formally introduce this aging singleton to that tagRRa naujawan!!!! And then you never know..sparks just may fly between the two of y`alls, and I will have the sweet satisfaction of knowing that two warm souls have, you know, met?!?!

Not checking the board myself either..and have no clue how the tagRRa naujawan (hai rabba) will react, but i suppose it shall have to wait, as all good things do!

kisses right back at ya!

Karakoram,

[Region, religion specific discussions are so crappy, don`t u think ?]

haan, babe, it`s such a drag! Let me tell you what guddu told me about minoo having pappu`s baby. bechari, she was already broke up over the ba$tard jagga and then this happened. enough to make one cry in one`s horse d`ouevres. don`t you think?

Just felt like saying that. Peace darling.

sac:``I think there is a movement afoot amongst prominent Punjabis in Pakistan to assert their heritage. ``

What to talk of ? If any language or culture needs a shot in the arm in Pakistan its Sindhi, Baloch, and Makrani. The Seraiki folks also need their land, language and heritage restored. gaaad knows they have been overrun by the Panjabis from the north. What to do ? Pathans have recieved enough exposure IMO and need to be shut-upped for a while and the tribal areas brought under control. Region, religion specific discussions are so crappy, don`t u think ?

anNy:``you are a little churail``

bite me !

karakoram

you are a little churail