The Kal Aaj Aur Kal of Secularism

Ref IQ-5-points-lower-than-a-kumquat #86
[You don`t want me to `cut n paste` your ``balanced`` interactions oozing of love and compassion for the muslim ummah. Every one knows you for a muslim lover.]
I have NO love or compassion for the Muslim Ummah. The Muslim Ummah needs to go fcuk itself which actually it is doing rather well considering the state of affairs in ANY of the Muslim-majority countries.

[Javed and his wife were allowed by you in the temple for the wedding of your nephew.]
I know you have ADD (attention deficit disorder). If you read my post carefully,

a) it was my niece who got married
b) the wedding was NOT in the temple.

harimau-81

[No, you idiot. Go and read my earlier posts]

You don`t want me to `cut n paste` your ``balanced`` interactions oozing of
love and compassion for the muslim ummah. Every one knows you for a muslim lover. Even Javed and his wife were allowed by you in the temple for the wedding of your nephew. :)

it is quite possible that arjun has said something intelligent at least ONCE here on Chowk...i would have said `in his life`...but it`s a beautiful day in the neighborhood...and cruelty is wasted on ------ :)

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

InYourFace #76: When I refer to harimau as hindutva scum (i.e. a religious chauvinist who happens to be a hindu), I am describing him for exactly what he is: an unrepentant, shameless apologist for the cold-blooded murderers of Gujrat, the one now calling for collective punishments after the latest violence in Gujrat.
When harimau refers to me as a mullah (i.e. a religious chauvinist who happens to be a muslim), he is merely name-calling: the reason is that the term mullah comes nowhere close to describing my views on chowk, and indeed represents the opposite of everything I have always emphasized on chowk. That is, I must have written scores of posts on chowk by now that emphasize respect for all religions and beliefs, and indeed made it clear that it is no big deal whether you are a muslim or a hindu as long as you are good human being who respects all life. There is not one post, out of the hundreds I have written, where I have glorified muslims as being anything special, or dwelled on historical grievances, lies (I use this word advisedly, based on past interactions as well as his latest bs about collective punishments in FATA), based on of the kind people like harimau and the murderers he supports indulge in.

termporal #73 you explain: ``i was thinking all that would happen after a due process of law…and only those the courts would find guilty would be penalized…not against ALL muslims of godhra, or gujrat or india.`` With this I of course agree fully - i.e. treat killing of individuals for any reason (``revenge killing``, ``freedom fighting``) as plain cold-blooded murder, and treat the killers as common criminals and murderers.

sameerJB #72: This much I will agree with: Second-hand smoke is a form of collective punishment. Not the same kind as was being discussed of course (that would require the smoker blowing smoke in the face of a specified community of people only, and as a form of ``punishment`` for the sins of someone from that community). And indeed, all over the world this form of ``collective punishment`` is becoming increasingly against the law anyway. They just banned smoking in schools, public transport, government offices in Pakistan - although it will probably take a decade for practice to catch up with the law there.
Similarly, while divorce no doubt is collective punishment for members of the family (particularly in poverty stricken societies like Pakistan), I dont think anyone condones divorce either.
The fact that we are even trying to justify something that is generally recognized in all progressive nations of the world today as being a war crime is an indication, I think, of how far behind we are in South Asia with respect to basic morality despite all our pretensions to being religious and so forth.

Ref All-the-IQ-of-a-Kumquat #74
{harimau

[ I have always been for equal punishment for all types of ill-mannered louts.]

That`s very funnnny}

No, you idiot. Go and read my earlier posts.

I do not have much patience with those who exhibit trisomy-23.

++

#61 by AzadMunna

Your comment on my post #50:

You are after all NOT an Einstein.otherwise you would Understand Scientology is a `movie star` religion & NOT necessarily science or scientific.

++

In original interact #8 (to which I was replying) AmericanExpress does not mean any `movie star` religion. He obviously meant ``science based belief system`` and not Scientology. If I am wrong then may be AmericanExpress should write a rejoinder. Unless you and him are in telepathic communication and you know what he meant.

-einsteinwallah

Here we go!

http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/sep/26varsha.htm

``Already, a leading Islamist of India, the Shahi Imam of Jama Masjid, Syed Ahmed Bukhari, who holds sway over 130 million Muslims, has said that ``it was too early to say whether the attack was staged by relatives of Muslims killed by Hindus in the recent riots or the raid was part of a deep-rooted plot by Hindu zealots to rekindle religious violence.`` (UNI, September 25) ``

``Add to that the statement of the London-based Council of Indian Muslims: ``If honest and impartial investigations are made we would not be surprised if the BJP/VHP leadership is found guilty of organising this attack on a temple.`` (IANS, September 24)``

Typical Tahmed is at it again:

#53 by tahmed32: `` ... a half-brained hindutva creep like harimau, ... ``

#69 by tahmed32: ``...Incidentally, calling me names (Mullah32) does not prove you are right either: it just proves the type of household you grew up in. ``

And the Mullah throws a tantrum!!!!

``I will not be responding any more to your posts (unless I change my mind) since you are not worth wasting time with. ``

Hey Tahmed! Please don`t stop posting. You are kinda funny.

tahmed32,

``...why it is wrong to condone something that is a recognized criminal act...blah,blah``
``...scum like harimau..blah,blah``

Welcome back! Inspite of the handle change, we notice with regret that tahmed has (yet) not changed his genteel-rebuke ways!

We look forward to the day when tahmed`s posts will start like ``Oye harimau, oye teri ..$&*@$..`` !!!

looking forwardingly,

harimau

[ I have always been for equal punishment for all types of ill-mannered louts.]

That`s very funnnny :)

How can you clearly separate individual and collective punishment. Every individual punishment have collective effects. History is full of collective punishments. Some punishments are quick, some are slow but most punishments are first order or second order collective punishments. Even a simple divorce is a collective punishment because it punishes the society abd family members of [arties involved. Who would you punish for pollution. Whole world is collectively being punished. Even a smoker is punishing many people through secondhand smoke.
According to some major religions, human beings are in this world as a punishment for an individual to wat forbidden fruit. Holocaust, Native American`s decimation, slavery, Stalin Purges, banu Qurayza, Rwanda-Burundi, ethnic cleansings, partition riots, Kashmiris massacre, Bangladeshi massacres, Sikh massacres following Indira Gandhis assassination, Gujrat communal riots are all collective punishments by one group against another. The history according to class struggle is basically a history of collective punishment of have-not classes. Punishing a person from any social group is collective punishment to that social group in terms of mourning and other side effects of individual punishment. What can I say more as a Pakistani: Pakistanis are being collectively punished one way or another since the creation of Pakistan, always by fellow Pakistanis with guns, land, religion or money. No punishment and no collective suffering will have to wait for hereafter.
Oh lord, please punish us; make us immoral and unethical materialists with computers, knowledge, education, food, sex, industries, work, freedom, liberty and choice instead of punishing us by parting us with your best. Oh lord, we are unworthy of chosen, son and last. Make a hell for unworthy human beings on earth with fires burning in each and every goddamn heart for justice, peace, compassion, equality and knowledge. We don`t deserve Mecca, Jerusalem or Mount Sinai. We failed to conduct ourselves according to your wishes. We are poor conductors of your best, punish us with semi-conductors, and instead of milk and honey valleys as you wished us, punish desis to make silicon valleys.

.
tahmed, dost-mittar:

...thank you for your rebukes!…based on my words i can see how you deduced i am for collective punishment…apologise for it…

(an explanation:…in my mind i was thinking all that would happen after a due process of law…and only those the courts would find guilty would be penalized…not against ALL muslims of godhra, or gujrat or india…

…also…

by extension…when I said […However, am all for this IF this is applied across the board to ALL such (religious/ethnic/racial) incidents AND benefits extended to victims AND their families…] I was also thinking of those who were guilty of atrocities and murders in the past, moradabad, delhi, bombay…and they were not necessarily muslims….and my ALL included individuals as well as state and its instruments…after due process of law, of course!…and since the earlier perpetrators have not been prosecuted yet…what chances for the godhra perpetrators?…

…apologies again…

rgds

t

If collective punishment is applied equally then this is a good idea. Violence will decrease when people begin to suffer the consequences of promoting violence. Currently there are no consequnces. Would 2000 Muslims have been killed if Hindus of Gujrat had to pay a collective price?