The Kal Aaj Aur Kal of Secularism

Godot,

Abe yaar..Go back to writing posts to 16 year olds ... Be careful but.. Lots of priests are getting arrested... Vaisai it is good that you have moved to Harp recently. Use protection but..

Your concerned yaar
ali

``Now excuse this desi angrez for he is going to put his safari hat on, smoke a pipe, and think about how beautifully ``the natives`` have mastered the art of sarcasm, and thank God, the Jesus Christ, that they don`t have enough brains to master something useful, like the art of living, because if they did, they`d be so far ahead of the gora angrez.``

HAHAHA!!! Hilarious...now that`s great imagery right there...you should have added ``Bloody Indian`` for good measure :)

Holy Cow!! Just read about the attack in the temple in Gujarat. Okay, the idiots who did this have to KNOW that this will lead to retaliation...WHY THE HELL DID THEY CHOOSE A TEMPLE IN GUJARAT????? There are 10,000 temples in other states?? Why Gujarat??? Damnit!!! Idiots/

Reply Godotbhai #6

``And I would ignore the sarcasm of a humorless, insecure, complex, dark brownie and still say that this article is very poorly written. And no, typos aside, just plain bad English, not to mention the nauseating writing style!!! Now excuse this desi angrez for he is going to put his safari hat on, smoke a pipe, and think about how beautifully ``the natives`` have mastered the art of sarcasm, and thank God, the Jesus Christ...``

Godotbhai, Ia malwas hapy when u r improving angreyzee onchowk, but you donut needing aticle before Jesus Christ (ra). In angreyzee w eare nut use aticles before Propah Noun, ok? (Inf rontof titles is ok, like The Quen, The Presdent, etc. JC (ra) is use like PN now, eveni f not original.)

Your fried,

Lajwanti

PS Ia mthinkit is ok touseing aticles infrot of PNs in Spanish and Grman. Maybe youa rethink of thut?

Ref No-Credit #8
[Religous persons are better than Irreligous
A religous hindu is better than irreligous muslim
a religous muslim is better thana irreligous hindu]
An irreligious man is better than a religious man who flies planes into buildings. Or, in the case of Egypt Air, into the Atlantic Ocean.

Harish

Sometimes I wonder if festivals such as the Ganpati or Durga Puja could not have been extended to encompass other groups that may not participate in what they consider to be a ``Hindu`` festival. However I should point out that in Mumbai and in Bengal many of the pandals are organised by minority groups.

I missed any reference to womenfolk enveloped in shrouds and/or volumes of thick black fabric. So it seems we do not have very many people from India`s largest minority participating in any of the festivals.

And do not take the cabbie`s crabbings too sincerely - as you know most of these cabbies are insecure etc.

heaven help us now ...

10 die as terrorists attack Gujarat temple, siege on
BHARAT DESAI
TIMES NEWS NETWORK [ TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 24, 2002 06:51:16 PM ]

GANDHINAGAR: About 10 persons were killed and another 50 injured in a deadly attack by terrorists on the Akshardham temple complex on the outskirts of the state capital of Gujarat on Tuesday evening. Most of the victims were believed to be children.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/articleshow?artid=23178911

I fully agree with AmericanExpress and others that there should be no compulsion to pray together, or to take part in each other`s pujas or any such things.

We should respect the beliefs of those who do not wish to pray together. It will be absurd, for example, to expect a practising Muslim to do Puja! We should understand and respect that fully and completely.

The key is to accord one another a level of respect that allows for differences to exist without anybody demeaning others for those differences. Mutual respect in matters of the sacred is the first sign of civilization.

We CAN create a common fellowship of men and women, irrespective of the form each person`s relationship with the Man Upstairs takes.

Harish,

Good reading. But...why on chowk?

While an Indian can appreciate your thoughts and emotions, a Pakistani can see only smugness wrapped (disguised?) in prose over `our secularism`...or did you expect otherwise??!

There`s a sea of difference between Jamaal of Malappuram and Jamaal of karachi. Manasilaayo?!!!

cheers,

Harish
To be frank, I think the guys at rediff and a couple of the opposite inclination at NDTV and a whole lot of others in urban India are very confused people and donot know what they mean when they say `secularist` or `communalist`. May I ask what you mean by these terms?

Its seems to me that if one happens to think like any normal human being would, religious or irreligious or `engagingly indulgent` as you nicely put it, that every Indian is equal to every other Indian, such an person is labelled `secularist` with the evil intention of denying maintenance to poor Muslim women(a group of Indians whom the communalists on the other hand claim to be VERY concerned about). and sinking every Hindu scripture in the Arabian Sea( scriptures which the communalists uphold in the violation). I wonder why ?

I agree with pmishra2`s point about Jimmy, and not even Hindus need to feel socially compelled to do the Puja, everyone makes their own choice with mutual respect and good manners, thats the one of the practices of Hinduism many of us have been brought up with which makes for a natural extension to `secularism`.

And speaking of Ganesh temples and kal aaj aur kal secularism, there was a Star News feature by Barkha Dutt two days ago on the Pandit migration out of urban ____. It focussed on the electoral scene in their absence, but one of the vignettes was of a Ganesh temple preserved in their absence by their Muslim neighbours and one neighbour quoting from the Quran to explain how it was the Muslims` duty to protect the temples in the Pandits` absence. When asked whether they would ever return he said perhaps they would, or perhaps they wouldn`t but `ummeed pe duniya kayam hai`.

The point is a religion-laden secularism is also secularism and we are not quite done with it yet.

And I would ignore the sarcasm of a humorless, insecure, complex, dark brownie and still say that this article is very poorly written. And no, typos aside, just plain bad English, not to mention the nauseating writing style!!! Now excuse this desi angrez for he is going to put his safari hat on, smoke a pipe, and think about how beautifully ``the natives`` have mastered the art of sarcasm, and thank God, the Jesus Christ, that they don`t have enough brains to master something useful, like the art of living, because if they did, they`d be so far ahead of the gora angrez.

say - did anyone catch the PBS documentary on the communal violence in India??
I am sorry - didnt mean to be rude and not comment. Actually this was one of the festivals when all our Hindu neighbours would invite us over to their houses and perform the poojas and distribute thalis filled with cocunuts,barfis,laddoos,flowers and liitle ganeshas made of sugar candy. And then we`d wait for the processions - more like abs chaos - to start. Very nice times.

I would ignore the patronizing remarks from the angrezi sahibs or sophisticated ``american``-type people. These folks are merely pointing out that they paid big $$$ and studied angrezi in phoren desh and you have not. Basically, its an old-fashioned class/caste distinction they are making. Stay with your voice, there are some real good things here.

And here is a remark: wouldn`t it have been great if Jimmy had not felt he MUST perform Ganesh Puja? If he could just say - Budhayee ! Subh Ganesh Chaturthi ! and hand a ``social`` gift (I liked that !) and move on!

What use is the tolerance of hinduism if everyone MUST behave like a hindu? How different is that from systems of thought in which there is a rigid and aggressive distinction between adherents and non-adherents?

Curious to hear your thoughts...

say - did anyone catch the PBS documentary on the communal violence in India??

godot:

it is all right....it is all right...

harish!

kaisay ho?... had a hard time but did manage to ignore some typos...well next time at kala ghora you will owe me one or two...

...wonderfully iconoclastic...

...recognised some of the characters from that travelogue...(digression: did finish reading it a while back...should have responded earlier...it is wonderful tho` incomplete as i read it...if you intended that as the perceived ending it is too abrupt and incomplete...and i know what you will say...so is life;)..but that will be countered with....and we will continue this at the kala ghora too....also...it veered...but so did your travel...will have a detailed feedback a little later?)

on a slightly less serious note...

the problem with any ism is its guardians...their wings need be clipped...continuously...nice to see here after a long time...my regards to the other ghatan...(ouch!)...

regards,

t

I`m sorry, HN. I couldn`t swallow this. God know I tried. I wanted to write nice things about this article. But, phew!!! Couldn`t get past the second paragraph. You tried very hard to create imagery, and I commend you for that. But, unfortunately, you failed quite miserably. You need to work on your English writing skills as well.

As I said, I`m really sorry to write this. You`re a good guy. I really feel bad. I didn`t mean it. Can I take it back? I feel so bad. Why did I click the post button? I shouldn`t have. Stop this. Please Chowk editors, please, please skip this post. Don`t put it up. I feel awful. HN is such a nice guy. Why did I do this? I don’t know. I feel like kicking myself. Oh, please, please Chowk editors...