What is Islam?

re:#221 by akhanusa
Chowk is full of people who like to speculate. Most people do not back their statements with hard facts. So, your statement that hindus are not sure if Sriram was a real person or a fictional character cannot be taken seriously. Are you sure if Prophet Md (PBUH) is a real person? You think so because you have been told so, you have heard so and you believe so, right. That is how it is with Sriram. It is all a question of faith. Faith does not demand proof. It is inherent and already exists. Millions of educated and not so educated and downright illiterate Indians believe Ram existed, period.
BTW, recently, NASA satellite mapped the Adam`s bridge between India and Srilanka and experts believe that the configuration of the dam points out to it being man-made. See the following url:
http://www.indolink.com/Religion/r091702-130924.php
If you know a little bit of Ramayana, you will know why this is significant.
Respect the faith of others and your own faith will be respected.
I however agree with those who dispute the fact that SriRam was born on that exact site where the babri masjid stood. That is mere speculation. Many thousand years down the line, who knows? Politicians are just deriving mileage out of that.
Sridhar

re: anarayan # 231

Jesus Christ! Seven swargs!

But with 80,000 narks (we Hindus do have a special thing for ``astronomical`` numbers), I am beginning to worry about my statistical odds.


Thanks anarayan, I had no clue :)

Why take so much stress about poor old piggy? I am sure you can still be a good muslim and not do Hijab or not eat Halal or not send your kids to a madrassah. Lets not get bugged with the details please....

dost-mittar #226
`` how can you say that the feeling is mutual? ``
That comes from my right to preemptive attack :).

Re swarg & naraks I don`t know much except that swargs and naraks are impermanent (as anarayan explains) since they along with the physical manifested universe are part of creation which is going to end when Brahma`s day ends and he sleeps after some number of trillions of years.

A person`s sojourn in heaven and hell is impermanent too. For instance, in the Gita Krishna says those who strive for something with sincere effort will attain it (9: 20-25 ).

He says those who worship phantoms will become phantoms, those who worship devas will attain the realm of devas, those who strive for heaven will attain heaven.

He says when their spiritual merit that earned them their stay in heaven is exhausted by their enjoyment of it, their stay in heaven will end and they will return to the karmic cycle of birth and rebirth.


So the attainment of heaven is hence a different thing from the attainment of Selfrealisation/salvation which ends the karmic cycle for the liberated soul and this state lasts till the current universe ends, if I am not mistaken.

dost-mittar,
``can anyone tell me what is the concept of swarg and nark in hinduism?``

My info maybe somewhat sketchy...but here goes.

There are 7 swargs...the lowest one being that ruled by the king of gods - Indra. If you happen to hit this joint...you spend your days drinking, enjoying music and dance and the occasional tryst with some willing apsara.

-----[inside story]-----
When the ocean of milk was churned, one of the things that came out was wine. The gods partook of this wine, while the demons refused it. Thus the gods are called sura (wine drinkers) and the demons asura.

Also, some 30 million beautiful women came out. But neither the gods nor the demons wanted to accept them. So they became public women (in heaven only, mind it!) called apsaras.
-----------------------

The 7th heaven is that called vai-kuntha. There the allmighty vishnu floats in the ocean of milk. Most of the time he`s sleeping (or meditating). Whenever he wakes up, he creates brahma out of his navel and brahma creates the universe (which he absorbs into himself eventually). This game goes on for ever.
Its important to remember that vishnu creates brahma not for some important reason, but `just for fun` - as a pasttime.

If you hit this place...all you do is gaze upon the lord (vishnu) in wonder.

Personally, which one would you prefer mittarji ??!!!


Narg is somewhat complicated. There at least 80,000 (or 800,000) of them. Depending on the quality and quantity of your sins...you will be assigned one.


on that cheery note,

Shankar#212,

``I know, I know, you dont care what I think...but have some goddamned mercy on some of us...I`m sorry I told you to kiss my butt...what was I thinking?!!! Even if you actually agreed to kiss my butt,... knowing you..you`d probably bite a chunk out of it....serves me right for being so stupid... ``.....

Yaar, you crack so many jokes. you should be named as chowk joker ..)
A suggestion- offer your butt to me, I won`t bite. And you already know that you are going to enjoy what I will do.

Shankar#212,

``I know, I know, you dont care what I think...but have some goddamned mercy on some of us...I`m sorry I told you to kiss my butt...what was I thinking?!!! Even if you actually agreed to kiss my butt,... knowing you..you`d probably bite a chunk out of it....serves me right for being so stupid... ``.....

Yaar, you crack so many jokes. you should be named as chowk joker ..)
A suggestion- offer your butt to me, I won`t bite. And you already know that you are going to enjoy what I will do.

(I just hope that chowk`s guidelines are same for you and me)

Dost-mitter #227,

w.r.t Shankar #222, Dostmitter#190 and Shankar #179

I think you wanted to say ``crass`` rather than ``facetious``. I personally find Sadna`s posts mostly based on some hard facts and logical argument. As far as Shankar`s jokes are concerned, any bus conductor or driver in Haryana Roadways can crack more vulgar and funny jokes.
As shrink is happy to analyze everyone else, let me try to analyze him. He is an older version of YLH (I must concede, YLH appears to have changed), totally enamored with himself and his self image. YLH was hiding himself behind Jiye Jinnah, Jiye Bhutto and all the mumbo jumbo. Shankar hides behind his penis god and vagina goddess jokes. He likes distributing Rakhi`s over Internet. And my experience says that people doing that are hiding a lust behind their rakhis.
When faced with an opposition to his views, he will not oppose opponent`s views. Rather, he will try to wave his degrees, make fun of opponent`s command of english, or his education, and if everything else fails, will enter the realm of crassness and crudeness.
Now let us see his reactions after such a long post.

Hinduism does`nt have a tradition of blashphemy law but they do enjoy destroying Mosques in the name of Ram`s birthplace (while they are not even sure if Ram was a real person or just a fictional charater).

shankar #212
I had nasah`s years in mind when I said `no respect`, actually I mean downright contempt. The more you cowards post remarks about me while evading the subject at hand, the more my contempt for you increases.

For instance, I no longer care what you think about any subject, much less what you think about myself. Kindly spare yourself the trouble of expecting any replies from me.

ajeet #207 On the other point in this post, I agree that religion has been used as a pretext for many evil deeds in the past. And this includes many evil acts (like the destruction of Somnath) by muslim invaders to India. After the recent victory in elections of the islamist parties in the frontier province of Pakistan, I fear for the future of women in that province - will they be forced to wear the veil in the name of shariah (when in fact the Quran calls only for modesty of dress for BOTH women and men, and certainly does not call for covering of the head - let alone the entire body - with a piece of rag)?
My point is simple though: Dont let these rascals (the islamists) get away with the pretext they use for their tradition-bound (at best) or mischievous (at worst) deeds. Dont let them hide behind the cloak of islam. Expose these mullahs for what they are by recognizing how, far from espousing islam as they claim, they practice things that are vehemently condemned in the Quran (like the concept of a chosen people, which is what they believe muslims to be). When people like hamidm ignore this distinction between the Quranic teachings and the anti-Quranic practices of the religious parties and mullahs in Pakistan, they unwittingly play by the rules of the mullahs - i.e. that Islam is what they say it is, not what the Quran says.
As for such views being dangerous in Pakistan - my recently deceased father wrote a whole book on the subject (Quranic and Non-Quranic Islam), published by the same press that publishes the Friday Times in Pakistan, that demonstrated exactly this point. The book (published about 5 years ago) received a number of very positive reviews in the Pakistani press. When I asked my father if he was not afraid for his life (given the violent ways of the mullahs), he simply replied that he was an old man already so he did not care. Also, he explained, he had been very careful to let the Quranic verses speak for themselves vs. the philosophy of mullahs like Maudoodi, and to provide his own interpretation. As such, no mullah dared to challenge the book - since no mullah dares to challenge the Quran. The mullah simply ignores it, so like the Queen of England, the Quran reigns in name, but the mullah rules as far as religion (and now politics in the frontier province) are concerned. Truth must be spoken out, not ignored as hamidm and Solitude and others do, thus unwittingly playing the mullah game.

ajeet #207 Further to my post below (or above, I am not sure how well chowk sequences posts anymore) the last phrase of the sentence ``Also, he explained, he had been very careful to let the Quranic verses speak for themselves vs. the philosophy of mullahs like Maudoodi, and to provide his own interpretation.`` should read ``...and NOT to provide his own interpretation``.

akhanusa,

Your comments reflect your shallow thinking. BC, I wasn`t convincing anyone to eat pork. The point was to define the hipocracy and obsession to go to heaven, that the dogmatic mundane instructions sweeps over your life, and the important ones that ask for enligentenment, social uplift and human development( read:hard work) are put aside in a golden cloak, like the arabic verses we frame in our homes and the quran we place respectfuly on a corner.

And for you, jhp, Id recomend the first instruction of Islam-- Read.

Aisha

I am really impressed with this article and I am really thankful to Aisha Fayyazi for convincing me to not feeling bad about eating ham.
As a favor, I would like to recommend her a famous chinese dish called ``Ox Penis``. This dish will go well with popular Indian drink called ``Gao ka Muttar`` or Cows Pee.
Enjoy

shanker miaN -- long post -- but delightlfully poignant -- now u no y i called u smart alecshanker the great:-)

btw -- one question -- despite all those falling bricks all around u -- how do u keep ur delightful smiley faces everywhere in ur post? -- i mean technically -- not emotionally.

``You show great respect for others` religions and are quite critical of your own. This, I admire. This can only be done by someone who either hates his religion or is supremely secure in it; my guess is that, in your case, it`s the latter.
You compared your criticism with that of solitude, hamidm and sameerjb. This comparison has no validity whatsoever``

Dost-Mittar has rightly diagnosed this shrink`s problem. Gimme a break? This guy neither has the intellectual depth of sameer nor the wit of Hamidm. He is just a self-hating Hindu who doesn`t even know his problem. How can this guy ever psychoanalyze others when his own psychology is so screwed up. All he can do is use the street language of loafers and use sexual abuses. The real reasons behind this screwed up psychology are obvious. He is a casteist to the core and when this guy was denied berth in some college in India because of affirmative action for dalits and he started hating Hinduism to justify his own mediocrity. The rest is for public consumption.