What is Islam?

Re: # 29

not contradicting ur point so please dont mind me replying to ur interact...

just on a side note tho...i think sarwari was brought up in the US and then moved to pakistan because i am guessing she and her husband chose to..i think i read it on some other site:)

Re: # 20

hahahaa because everything in this world isnt created to be eaten by humans..haha imagine the sight...

Re: # 101

Oh my gosh!!!!

Look who is talking religion!!!! hahahahahahahaha!

Now this is funny!

Sleeping Buddha though is qn amazing eperience, even Nuwara Eliya is some place, was there last month!

Re: # 20

Dude Allah also made human beings... so will that make us eligible to be cannibals??

I guess the Muslims in Pakistan are obsessed with sex and alcohol, while those living in the West by pigs. Unfortunately this seems to be the primary focus of religion for many while loosing track of the fundamentals ie. doing good and being nice to others.

Sadna #346
I offer a looooooong bow .....
Thanks.
I have nothing to hide about my upbringing. My ``pita``, fortunately, permitted me to defend myself, both by arguments and as well as by other means whenever required. And it has served me well.

I like your posts (and of several other people). So keep writing. (and leave the old bandicoots to bouncers)

Regards

#351

Shubh aagman.
GuR kya Raab bhi mil sakti hai:)

Get ready (and warn Bhabhi jaan as well) to be surprised one day. Since I reached the U.S. of A., have been looking to discuss rabi and kharif; jowar and bajra with someone. We can try some ganne ka gud as well as Ghalib :)

# 349

AmaN yaar,
this is typical UP ishtyle of making fool of simpletons like me.Me and culturally knowledgeable is pretty funny, agriculturally knowledgeable is more like it.And I am not too far from you,it`s only 8 hour drive from ny
to toronto.

regards.

re: Banjaara # 348

HAHA....

Dada ji, aap tau ustaadon ke ustaad hain, mahaarathee hain; binaa aap ke haath lagaaye UP se Lahore tak kucch bhi uthane waala nahi hai :)

Vaise, agar allah ka karam rahaa tau one day I will seek you out....you are one of the most culturally knowledgeable persons I have met. In this day, when uncouth people draw pride in parading their pathetic ignorance, you are quite a treat.

Bhai Prem,

I am sure you have never gone back on your word,after all UP ki izzat ka sawal hai, parantu 345 ke prashnoN ka uttar meri samajh se bahar hai?
koi `gauna` le jaanay ki baat ho tau hameN bhi yaad rakhna :)

PS: Was the vendor female? fighting females is not on even if stupid........

I_can_not_believe_this@hotmail.com

(95, colva, some stupid vendors)

---------------------

Banjaara bhaiya,

I have never ever gone back on my vachan, unless people have worked hard to prove themselves completely unworthy.

friend #337
It gets pretty ugly on chowk and in this instance, I am grateful for bhai pehelvans, not least yourself, like I said in #330. Once the mukka-mukki goes to upbringing and mata-pita, it may be best to let those making such comments stew in their own juices.

Yessssss!! You are!!!!!! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) I have been searching for you for soooooooo long !!!!!!!!! :) :)

Please don`t be angry. I will tell you about me! Please answer one more question to make certain! Not playing mindgames. Only making sure.

PCS+SM ?year ?beach ? fight with whom?

Can you answer those questions to remove any doubt??? I am her younger sister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prem # 343

Raghukul reet sada chali aayee
pran jaay per vachan na jayee ;)

Regards.

re: 339

My dear lady, I may as well be a serial killer from Uganda.

Now listen to me. If this is your idea of a prank, you must know that I do not appreciate it in any shape, manner, or form. There are certain things I do not allow anybody to play with. Least of all my friends and acquaintances. So you had better start by telling me who you are. What does your nickname have to do with the real YOU?

All your information about me is correct. So, if you know me, help me place you. Or else, get lost.

That is the most polite thing I can say to you right now....because I don`t suffer people who try to play mind games with me.

Best regards.

bhayankar# 340
You write exactly like whatis expected from a fallen mud-pit warrior. Don`t worry doc. I will be watching you. Go to any sh*thole, or to any pigsty, always watch your back. If you misbehave with anyone, I will fill the hole in your butt.

#340 by Bhayankar
Now you are speaking exactly like a fallen mud-pit warrior.
Go and find another sty. Chowk has made it easier to locate you. I will come and again teach you manners. Same goes for your old bandicoot buddy.

tahmed,

There is no sense trying to argue with that butthead:). Let him feel good about himself--as much as his heart desires. Its absolutely hilarious that he gives ``credit`` to himself, for trying to ``reform`` us! It was posters like Prem & roohi who I agreed with, that I apologised to sadna:))

But hey!....if he wants to praise his own grunts...who am I to argue with His Greatness?! Its obvious he loooves to wollow in the same sh*thole, but has a convenient ``excuse``...he`s doing it to ``bell me!!!`` :))

We`ve said what we wanted to say...people have agreed & disgreed...lets just keep it that way...let the idiot rejoice in his self-proclaimed ``victory``..yup! if he wants to get the gold medal in ``sh-t kabaddi``--I`ll be GLAD to personally put it around his neck! Better him; than me!...so I HUMBLY concede victory to this champion...but its getting b-o-r-i-n-g to wollow over & over, when we already have a self proclaimed champ!

So I humbly say farewell to this thread & if friend wants to join me in a sh*thole in a future thread, he`s more than welcome!

you are?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! tell me please. phd from c ny?

re: # 329

Is this a bloody joke? Who the hell are you?

#336, Ahmek,
Wah wah! Kya likha hai old bandicoot ne!
Dada jaan, meine farmaya tha ki Shankar miyan ki to bell lag gayi hai par dada jaan bahut bude hain aur woh abhi tak nahin seekh paye hain. Mein phir bhi koshish zari rakhunga. After all I will always do my duties without worrying about getting paid.

Aur yeh slap ke chakkar mein mat aao dada jaan, ultee bhi pad sakti hai. After all, I am THE champion mud wrestler.

And I know that you will come back. After all, being an old man you can`t accept defeat.

(BTW, Meri mata ji and pita ji used to talk about a senile old man who used to sit on nukkad always leering at passing girls. Unhe bataoonga ki aap abhi bhi jinda hain aur wahi karte hain)

friend #335 I am back, having given a slight increment to my ``idiot time budget``.
You say you have put a bell around Shankar`s neck, but failed to do so with me. BUT, you have indeed won a great victory over me as well. I bow to your infinite ability to exchange insults. Looks like you were well trained in this business from childhood, no doubt watching mata and pita ji start the day with a demonstration: Something like this:
mata ji: Oy friend kay aba! tera beta ``friend`` saara saara din chory a computer kay samnay betha retha hai.
pita ji: nakami aurat! is b-c ko kon samjhayy.
mata ji: hai hai! kaysi gandi gaaliyaN bakta hai! phooti meri kismet!! hai! hai! hai!
and so on.
Having been so well trained at exchanging results, I admit you are indeed the victor. I have demonstrated you to be a liar, but that is no problem. You are used to people calling you that. You also have this great affinity with other men`s private parts to which you constantly refer, and clearly you are a champion in this field. In real life, of course, particularly if you are one of those skinny little chaps who have learnt programming, you would probably a single slap would floor you. But on chowk, you are the champion, my friend. Hail to you!!
PS: Now I have used up my incremental budget for ``idiot time``, and you are free to write post after post calling me names. That is your privilege as the champion mud wrestler on chowk.

Ajeet,
You have to give credit to this x-rated guy for putting bell around shankar`s neck. I tried very hard with other one. But Tahmek is too old to learn. I will still keep trying.

Wallah,

I stay away for a couple of days, and wonders have happened. Sadna and Shanker have made up. Shanker has toned down some of his ultra retoric. Another x rated guy calling himself friend has appeared on the scence. Some things have not changed. Tahmed is still busy calling people idiot if he doesn`t like them.

More later.

#331 shankar the bhayankar -
Are not we getting touchy!! It is good that you identify yourself to be pig wallowing to be in mud. But why this objection to anyone else doing same. After all wallowing in the mud appears to be only way to straighten you up.
You may go and choose another sty. But be careful, if you misbehave again with anyone anywhere, I will again drag you out of your sty and cut your pennls to size.
Same goes for your uuscratch partner.

Shankar

``UPites form the majority of Indians. Now could you tell us why your cohorts behaved like such junglees in the State assembly``

Majority ??. my cohorts?? (*perplexed look on the face*). Anyways since you dont know, it has been a long standing tradition in UP that if a child is talented, parents push him towards engineering, medical, management etc. and if he is ``naa-laayak`` or good for nothing, he is encouraged to join politics. And it is a tacit understanding amongst UPites to keep electing these naa-laayaks to the State Assembly(villagers and slum dwellers help us in this endeavor) so that the rot can be contained and these people do not harass sharif commoners. Additionally these naa-laayaks provide us free entertainment, which is a bonus in the otherwise joyless lives of us commoners.

PS Aur Thackeray miaN ke kyaa haal-chaal haiN. Suna hai ke court meiN peshee hai. Jail jaane ki koi gunjaaish hai.

friend,

I`ll tell you the result of my analysis--self or otherwise...I take full responsibility for being a pig wollowing in a sh*thole & making a point..which atleast some people acknowlegde, is a valid one.

You, on the other hand, insist on wollowing in the same sh*thole as I do & squealing that your fellow pig wants to act like some messiah & that tahmed wants to fill bahmad`s shoes. Your porcine brain cant fathom that we are our own unique personalities (warts, farts, grunts an` all) & dont feel the need to act like people we are not.

But I`m honored you want to share the sh*thole with me. After all, imitation is the best form of flattery. But with you hogging up most of this swill, its time for me to move out of it & find me another sty..

Pankaj
Don`t know about UP Bhaiyas but am thankful for the bhais.

Prem,

PCS?

Ahmek#326
Mirror mirror on the wall ...

Penls-less god #327,
So you are back. What was result of your self analysis? Could you find the old khunnas that is so ingraved in your mind.

Now you two are together, do a uuscratch.

friend #325 The first sentence provides a glimmer of hope that you will one day develop a real sense of humor. Inshallah. The rest of your post is gibberish as before (Out of the sheer goodness of my heart, I am now stretching my ``idiot time`` beyond the allotted budget).
PS: And lets keep the late bahmed out of this nasty little ``discussion``. I have had real discussions on real issues, and real agreements and (just as often) real disagreements with bahmed on chowk. But not once did he (and I do try to live up to bahmed`s example of civilized behavior on chowk, even if not successfully all the time) display the angry, irrational and insulting behavior that seems to be second nature to you.

Yo friend,

I see a cow about to take a leak, on the horizon...now be a good boy & run towards her...its about time you took a shower...

Dear old bandicoot,
We just grow wild ;-) Atleast you called us people.
I am sorry, you are not foaming. You are fuming & frothing.

Now relax, take a deep breath, count till three. And think. Now is the phase where you must reconcile yourself to your limitations. You can never be Bahmad. Once you accept that, you will enter the phase of building your self estem again. And that will be the time when your frothing will stop.


Your friendly little old man

friend #321 I seem to have used up all my ``idiot time`` for now. Sorry I cant carry on this conversation.

friend #321 Incidentally, the main para in your post is gibberish. And the final sentence imitates what I wrote, and imitation being the sincerest form of flattery, I thank you for that.
Also, I see you failed cut and paste anything from my post to back your claim that I was ``foaming``. This proves my point that you were merely getting back at me for pointing out the ``bile factory`` inside you.
Now I think I have really run out of ``idiot time``. (Are people like you raised in special schools in India, or you just grow wild?)

``could you tell us why your cohorts behaved like such junglees in the State assembly? The western media got a huge thrill showing the free-for-all pandemonium. I know Indian democracy can be ..er..coloful..but that was hilarious.``

{*mutters quietly to himself: how else are junglees expected to behave if not like themselves? changes gear before Shankar da appears on stage *}

My dear Shankar,

What unfortunate misinterpretation! What you call ``free-for-all pandemonium`` was nothing but vociferous display of democratic agreement; what you construed as the throwing of chairs was, if truth be known, a disciplined form of intense physical excercise; and what you saw as profusely bleeding reddened noses (and broken, dangling arms) resulted from medical experiments undertaken by scientifically trained representatives of the residents of heaven. To amaze and astonish foreigners is a duty we take very seriously.

We are lucky indeed to have been born UPites, the best, the brightest, and by far the jungliest.

Our brother Biharis don`t come close.

Hope matters stand clarified now.

#320 by Old Ahmek
Oh you meant #312. I realize my mistake, you were not in that compartment. Had you been there than my post would have made sense.
You are right you don`t object till you get paid.

your immature little friendly man.

friend #319 I meant your post #312. Also, please cut and paste the part of my post where you think I am ``foaming``. Seems to me you are merely trying to get back to me for pointing out the bile-ridden nature of you earlier posts.
As for calling me names - I have been called many names on chowk, generally by individuals whose pretensions have been deflated and have nothing left to say other than call me names. By calling me names, you are merely indicating to me the immature little man that you are.

#318 by tahmad32 -
Old bandicoot,
Now you are foaming very hard. Are you replying to Soysauce #215 or to me (#316)? Decide soon so that I can reply.

Always your friend

#317 Banjara
Yaar, please write a translation. I couldn`t get it.

friend:

Instead of - u scratch my balls etc, how about a typical UP response which carries more class ;)

`` mun tora haji ba-goyam, tou mara haji ba-go``

shankar #309 Finally! A post where you address your old buddy after all this trouble he went through for not pitching in with the madding crowd! The negative mail does not bother me - not every chowk poster gets criticized for NOT writing something (kind of like the dog that criticized because it did not bark). So I take these expressions of hurt feelings and outraged holiness (including friend`s unfriendly post to which I will come to next) as being in fact expressions of praise and admiration. (Who needs a thick skin when rose-colored glasses are available?).

Friend #315: I can picture that bile-making factory that was custom fitted into you overflowing as you read the last sentence above. You are now getting ready to write another one of your shi!tty little posts telling me off once and for all. But wait! You are now confused, since you are not sure whether you should do as I say you will do, or not. So folks, please stand by for the exciting finish to this ``discussion``: will friend pour his high-pressure bile onto the next post, or will he keep building up the pressure inside him and not write that post? We shall soon find out...

#309 by shankar to tahmed,
`` I get a feeling they are acting out some unresolved past khunnas....pray, let them feel good about being holier-than-thou... ``

Yaar, what kind of psychologist are you? do some self analysis!! Now this new raag of ``I didn`t anything, they have some old khunnas!!``, Yes I have an old khunnas that you didn`t return 25 cents you borrowed from me in 5th grade.

You and this old-bandicoot - We used to have a phrase for this kind of relationship - uuscratch (aka uucp)- u scratch my balls- I scratch yours.

Hasanji:
You fall into the same trap that everyone does at some point or the other, of mistaking an anonymous chat room for the larger society. Here there`s ABSOLUTELY no reason to have this insidious philosphy that only muslims can criticise muslims, etc. It`s true in the real world only because the consequences can be grave and the effectiveness of criticism can be blunted by labeling someone hindu-lover, etc. Without these impediments we are supposed to let it all hang out here.
That said, i should point out that the flip side of only muslims can, etc. is that a random muslim is expected to criticise all and sundry anywhere in the world if it`s done in the name of islam. An ordinary muslim or a hindu is expected to carry the weight of the world on his shoulders. Very unfair i say.
Sadhana mentioned at some point that reform has come from within hinduism. That`s being very chartiable, taking a very broad view of what a hindu is. It`s only a little more restrictive than saying reform to human actions has come from within humanity. An obvious and ridiculous statement you`d agree. Those that agitate for reform are always from the margins and labeling them hindu is a matter of convenience. There`s also another aspect. Sati was not abolished by hindu reformers. Vidyasagar and Ram Mohan Roy only provided the cover of dharma so the brits could ban it. It was only nominally reform from within.

sadna,

Thankyou for being a such a good sport...I was wrong about you..

Pankaj,

UPites form the majority of Indians. Now could you tell us why your cohorts behaved like such junglees in the State assembly?:) The western media got a huge thrill showing the free-for-all pandemonium. I know Indian democracy can be ..er..coloful..but that was hilarious:))

sadna,

Thankyou for being a such a good sport...I was wrong about you..

Pankaj, Prem,

UPites form the majority of Indians. Now could you tell us why your cohorts behaved like such junglees in the State assembly?:) The western media got a huge thrill showing the free-for-all pandemonium. I know Indian democracy can be ..er..coloful..but that was hilarious:))

banjaara & satyavadi,

Yaro, give tahmed a break, hahn! Porky here doesnt need anybody`s ``encouragement`` to wollow in mud--it is a natural instinct... I knew full well what tahmed`s views were about colorful language , before I ..er, wollowed...so drop it, already!..even a middle aged pig loves to wollow..so if it hurts a 20 something that a pig wont ``grow up``, please feel free to throw mudballs at the pig...he doesnt mind...

tahmed,

I dont feel you have to justify what you did or did`nt do to these enlightened characters. I get a feeling they are acting out some unresolved past khunnas....pray, let them feel good about being holier-than-thou...

satyavadi #303 If you tell me you were offended only at shankar`s manners, and not at his ridiculing of hindu rituals, then that is fine. Even my unlimited time does not permit me to go and research the course of interaction on this board. I see you are also offended by my suggestion to talk straight (``like a man``, and this is a phrase with no offense to the many fine straight-talking women on chowk) - you are welcome to let this criticism slide by terming it cheesy. This criticism was based on your earlier post, so I consider it quite justified. If you dont believe it was fair criticism, that is your call and no skin off my back.
Amen, and go in peace. (I would draw a halo here, if only I knew how).

#302 by tahmed32
``To repeat my earlier post (since, unlike you, I have unlimited time), I am not paid to write a post each time some poster uses nonflattering language with a lady (or a gent, or any other creature on chowk). ``...

Few weeks ago, a drunk man forced his way with a mentally handicapped 11 year (?) girl in a compartment of a running train in Mumbai. 6 people were in compartment. No body objected - as it was not their job. Are we witnessing a similar apathy here.?
This old man writes atleast 5-7 responses every day on chowk. He has time to read posts, congratulate some and chastise others. But he must get paid(!!) or must be officially given responsibility (what does he want, some sort of virtual cyber sheriff badge) before he will act to stop anything wrong happening. Is not expressing your unapproval is absolute must to indicate the socially acceptable pattern?

I can very well imagine this sick old man sitting in that train compartment, applauding the drunk man and later saying, ``My applaud applies only to sermons coming out of drunk person`s mouth. Where did I applaud the act? I do not get paid to stop him forcing his way.``

It is just sickening.

nasah #305 Agreed that it is much better that muslims bash muslims and hindus bash hindus. Much, much better. So, with your permission...
a. Why are muslim societies having so much trouble realizing that we are living in the 15 century AH (=21 century AD), not the 15th century AD.
b. Why do so many muslims in denial about 9/11?
c. Why do so many muslims call you ``brother`` or ``sister`` - but only if you are a muslim as well?
d. Why do so many muslims think that Great Muslim Civilization invented everything and borrowed nothing?

I feel better already.

nasah sahib #306
Please, a person of your experience and wisdom has nothing to apologise for, aap mujhe sharminda kar rahe hain.

I too apologise for my language. All of us come to chowk with a message each, which are all equally worth examining and I on my behalf also donot apologise for questioning the supremacy of any particular individual or his message on chowk.

My dear Shanker miaN –

I am glad that u have apologized to Sadna for your language – and I am glad that Sadna has accepted your apology and in turn apologized to you for her language –

Please in future never address ladies with that bhayanker diction.

But -- I am also GLAD that u did not apologize for your message –
your message is a solid one – for which you MUST NEVER apologize to anyone.

This is a message that needs to be heard on loudspeakers – needs to be hammered on the heads of BOTH -- Muslims and Hindus – that there are bigger holes in the fabric of THEIR societies, cultures and Religions –that need to be mended – and mended fast –

and that before or even – while you are looking into the eyes of OTHERS -- trying to remove the proverbial STRAW – it’s a healthy idea for your eyes – if you can feel and remove the BEAM from your own eyes as well.

But most importantly what Shanker is saying correctly that -- the MESSAGE has to be delivered by the MUSLIMS to the MUSLIMS -- and by the HINDUS to the HINDUS – NOT vice versa..

Although it is good for a community to hear from OTHERS -- how they see us -- because it gives the members a perspective that is never available to them on their own.

Yet – unsolicited OUTSIDE criticism – especially from those self-righteous folks become counter productive -- who themselves have bigger holes to mend in their own fabrics -- but present them -- as glorious designs of their not so glorious traditions -- while gleefully pointing the warts and moles of other`s faces.

usually it ends up having just the OPPOSITE effect – it INHIBITS reforms and -- it WEAKENS the reformers of the other party -- who desperately try to work from the INSIDE -- to modernize their respective communities.

The fact is -- regardless of how much they want to – the Hindus CANNOT reform the Muslims – and the Muslims can NEVER reform the Hindus –

the RSS Goondas can never reform Muslim’s out of their backward Personal Law – (remember Shah Bano?) -- they actually helped the Mullas to ruin the case.

similarly the Jihadi murderers cannot wean Hindus off of their Hindutva sour bottles

the process of DESENSITIZATION -- which Shanker has correctly identified as -- the FIRST STEP – to the PATH of -- modern MUKTI – or new age NIRVANA --

will have to come from the INSIDE -- with the likes of Shankers and Hamidms – not from OUTSIDE – of the likes of urstruly ji and arjun miaN.

And here is the crux of this discussion – as to why -- smart alecshanker the Great -- minus his orificial language – is such a valuable serious -- social critic -- of his community --

because his critique has a healthy effect on `others` -- besides his own.

when a Muslims who bashes his OWN Muslims to wake them from the centuries old delusions – sees a Hindu bashing his own Hindus – it fills him with, confidence, courage, and camaraderie of a common cause --

and most importantly -- it lightens HIS burden of being called an apostate, a traitor, a brown nose , a hindu lover, a hindutva pleaser -- etcetera, etcetera.

Believe me – it’s rather an unkindest cut to call these people -- ‘cheap’ thrill seekers – or they take pleasure in ‘dissing’ their own community -- they are NOT – and they do NOT --

if anything – they are the ‘DEADLY’ THRILL seekers – as the rushdies, the tasleemas, the mahfouzes, the professor shaikhs of this bigoted world -- would gladly testify any time to.

hasan

And my apologies to our progressive sadna -- if urstruly`s posts have crossed the boundries any time --

may we be friends again:-)

Pankaj, Hum UP waalon ki shaan hi kuchh aur hai.

If there is heaven on earth, it is UP, it is UP, it is UP.


Allllllliright folks, no one should laugh now :)

tahmed32:

Regardless of which part of Shankar`s post you were cheering for, you clearly were encouraging him when he was being cruder and cruder in every post. Also, its disingenuous of you to pretend that everyone that objected did so was because Shankar had critcised some aspects of Hinduism, when clearly most of the objectors did mention his language as the reason.

You have been very quick to judge folks on this forum in the past and are now getting a taste of your own medicine. Sorry if this second fall from your high horse hurt bad. Shouldn`t you take the hint and get off it?

Lastly, can those cheesy ``not a man enough`` lines. You clearly have the literary skills, the time and enough obsession with Chowk, to do much better than that.

Until next time,
Satyavadi

PS: It was brave of Shankar to clearly apologize for his language.

#290 and #292 - Oh I didn`t notice these. At last, that is a good beginning.

Banjaraa #295 You write ``I have neither the time nor the erudition nor the wish to counter your points. ``
Good. Now we can all do something useful with our time. But...
You continue ``The language used for a lady was not very flattering and your silence on “that” was tantamount to double standards.`` To repeat my earlier post (since, unlike you, I have unlimited time), I am not paid to write a post each time some poster uses nonflattering language with a lady (or a gent, or any other creature on chowk).
And finally (aaah!!), you write ``This ends my response to the subject.``
Amen. Hope you will keep this promise.

tahmed32#295

I have neither the time nor the erudition nor the wish to counter your points. The language used for a lady was not very flattering and your silence on “that” was tantamount to double standards. This ends my response to the subject.

Regards.

There seem to be quite a number of UPites on Chowk. Let`s see:

1. Prem- Lucknow
2. Friend(?)
3. Sadhana
4. Banjaara: honorary UPite
5. Myself :-)

#287 by shankar on October 15, 2002 7:46am PT
shankar the bhaynkar, (it sounds funnier than writing pennls god)

You are overestimating your posts. Who gives a single penny about what you write for hinduism! Whatever you write about religion is your opinion and I don`t (and shouldn`t) care a hoot about that.

Few other have been more patien and have written very clearly where you crossed the lines. However it appears that you are still under illusion that all brick-throwing is due to your great ``reformer`` role and your crap writing style has nothing to do with it.

I learnt to have thick skin quite early in life. And that comes handy whenever I need to play shit-kabbadi.

Till next time.

Banjaara

Have you heard about a poem that was one of my favs in high school days:

Hum BanjaaroN ki kyaa hasti hai
Hum aaj yahaaN kal wahaaN chale
Masti ka aalam saath chalaa
Hum dhool udate jahaaN chale.

There seem to be quite a number of UPites on Chowk. Let`s see:

1. Prem- Lucknow
2. Friend(?)
3. Sadhana
4. Banjaara: honorary UPite
5. mastram2
6. Myself :-)

banjaraa #293 You clearly dont mind twisting the truth to make your point: You selectively pick from Shankar`s post, ignoring the part I was focussing on. There were two parts to his post, the first to Godot, the second to Sadna. You ignored the part to Godot, when it should be clear that that is the part I was responding to, and made it look like I was congratulating him for insulting Sadna.
To see what I mean, let me cut and paste the first part (the part you ignored):
Shankar #159 godot,
{{``..but i must confess it is probably not right for grownups to pull santa`s beard and say these things in front of the little kids..``
Yes!!!! Praise the Lord!!!! hamidm has seen the light!!!!!}}
Yo! godot, i hate to diss you cuz you`ve been nice to me (SMILEY FACE HERE).
My take on hamidm`s quote was that he is pulling your leg sarcastically & mischeviously. Are we ``little kids`` on Chowk? that we should feel offended if some of us choose to be ``irreverent`` & ``disrespectful`` of the institution of religion ESP if we see a lot of CRAPOLA in it?!
OK, those of u who make such a biiiig to-do about religion, how insecure are you guys?!.... if some ``secular fundamentalists`` choose to mock our religion..hey its OUR choice....if your feeeeelings get hurt..boohooo..``

NOW read my post #167, and look at the references to the ``smiley face`` and the ``crapola`` part and it is clear what part of his post I was responding to. The second part of his post that you quoted was to Sadna, and he has now apologized and Sadna has accepted, and all is well with them. You can now fault me for ignoring that part of his post, and for not dumping on shankar for that second part of his post and that is fine me too. I am not paid to sit and correct people`s manners on chowk. I do it only when I feel like it, and if that bothers too, that is too bad.
PS: Glad you learnt to talk straight finally, and to address me directly This is an improvement over the oblique references to the ``self-proclaimed chowk moderator`` in your last post. Keep working at it and you may go the next step and learn not twist facts to make your point.

Tahmed32 # 280

No... I am not clever.The entire chowk knows who is the self-appointed
moderator and the chief of morality. It`s YOU.

jaanay na jaanay gul hi na jaanay
baagh tau sara jaanay hai

regards.

dost-mittar,

Here is a quote from shankar #159 addressing sadna and the response from Tahmed #167.

If you were a man, I would have said ``you dont have your thumb up your butt...your ARM is in there--up to your elbows, at least..!``...but since youre a lady, I WONT say it...

shankar #159 You the man! (incidentally, I need to learn how to make that fancy smiley face you have discovered on this new, crappola format chowk.)

Introspection? humour??
Regards.

shankar #290
Apology accepted and I too am sincerely sorry if my comments were hurtful. Actually I generally agree with you more often than I disagree, including on this topic.

Dost-Mittar

Banjaara jee to mast-maula aadmi hain. And both of us can speak the same language(literally:-) ) although he can speak many more languages than me. The nick Banjaara completely suits him. Since he has a truly ``Banjaara`` spirit, he is far more neutral than most of us. His posts are always short and straight to the point, something that I prefer.

Prem & roohi,

OK OK, I stand corrected.

Sadnaji,

I SINCERELY apologise for crossing the line with you. I dont expect you to lessen your contempt for me, but I`m hoping that you will forgive my comments about you. Not for nothing, but when I`m rude, I dont intend to be malicious.

Shankar the bhayankar...that was a good one.

Friends, family, and foes, almost a year (may be longer) ago, I had advised a Pakistani friend - a genuinely decent and delightful person - to focus on the content of Shankar`s message, not its particular articulation (if that was bothersome to them). We Indians (in this case, us Hindus) need to adopt the same stance.

Having spanned the entire spectrum of social contexts, I am neither partial to nor repelled by any degree (or kind) of crude language. But I AM deeply offended by public rudeness to women. Such rudeness is unfair - women rarely have a chance to pay the offender back in the same coin.... And where there is no reciprocity, bigotry makes it home. Therefore, I sincerely wish Shankar was much much more careful in this matter.

Barring that, puhleez! let`s not be so sensitive about our religions. NO progress has ever been made by people who are profoundly ``respectful`` of their religions.

Total ``respect`` to one`s religion is moral and intellectual death, a deliberate murder of the self. If we are to have a living moral and intellectual framework, people - those without malice - MUST be allowed to question, criticize, blaspheme, poke fun at whatever they want to. If what they say doesn`t appeal to us, we are free to ignore them.

On this day, we may well want to remember Friedrich Nietzsche (thank you, Garrison Keillor). Christians of his time mustn`t have liked to hear his words. But today, much of the Christian West pays its respects to such giants. If Christianity is a great civilized religion today, it owes considerable gratitude to people like him. He wrote:

``I condemn Christianity. I bring against it the most terrible of accusations that ever an accuser put into words. It is to me the greatest of all imaginable corruptions.... It has left nothing untouched by its depravity. It has made a worthlessness out of every value, a lie out of every truth, a sin out of everything straightforward, healthy and honest. Let anyone dare to speak to me of its humanitarian blessings! To do away with pain and woe is contrary to its principles. It lives by pain and woe: it has created pain and woe in order to perpetuate itself. It invented the idea of original sin. It invented `the equality of souls before God` - that cover for all the rancour of the useless and base.... It has bred the art of self-violation - repugnance and contempt for all good and cleanly instincts.... Parasitism is its praxis. It combats all good red-blood, all love and all hope for life, with its anæmic ideal of holiness. It sets up `the other world` as a negation of every reality. The cross is the rallying post for a conspiracy against health, beauty, well-being, courage, intellect, benevolence - against life itself....

This eternal accusation I shall write upon all walls: I call Christianity the one great curse, the one great intrinsic depravity,... for which no expedient is sufficiently poisonous, secret, subterranean, mean! I call it the one immortal shame and blemish upon the human race!``


Shankar is no Nietzsche. But only those who show us our faults can help us grow.

Cheers.

anarayan #271

``Sadna`s typical response to questions of this kind have traditionally been to refer people to this book or that...and I`m glad traditions are being maintained!!!``

If you mean to say that I say `I am glad traditions are being maintained`, actually thats not what I said nor what I believe. In any case I have never been to a kriya/karam and know nothing about these things.

The two `wakes` I attended, inspite of the grief, one of the things debated by the bereaved in both cases was about how meaningful are the prescriptions for last rites because given the whole thing about karma, how can a person`s afterlife be determined by what rituals his mourners choose to do for him/her after he/she is no more?

And Kabir said (about ancestor worship not last rites, I think) that `you are so particular about feeding your parents` spirits long after they are dead, but you had no problem ill treating them in their old age when they were alive`.

That pretty much sums up my attitude towards both rules and rituals such as not eating cows and pitr puja and other rituals. Rituals and rules have meaning only if you are consistent and aren`t trying to compensate for your real deficiencies. If not rituals and rules are simply a cover for hypocrisy.

btw Kabir too mentions orifices. He says something like (sorry its not exact, can one of the many Kabir experts here please oblige) `you say you are a brahmin and something very special, so how come you were brought forth by the same route as a chandal` :)

friend,
#273

Your points are well taken. However, in your eagerness to treat me like a Bombay mawali, please understand that I have agreed that I should be treated like one:) I got no problem with that. I got no problem with any of you trying to cut my penis down to size either. Heck, I`ve said I richly deserve it, did`nt I?

Now if a Bombay mawali like me threw rotten tomatoes at people & then cried because people threw rotten tomatoes back at me, it would be a different story. But in the midst of all these flying rotten tomatoes, if I flip the bs in my religion & some hindus get mad at that; but conveniently blame my rotten tomatoes for the reason of their anger..then I will say a thing or two about it..

This is not a question of my ``ego``, ``popularity``, ``chamchagiri`` or ``immaturity``...its a question of all of us (hindus & muslims, alike) developing a thicker skin on Chowk & focussing on the bs in ourselves; rather than feeling good about the bs of the ``other`` side.

Over the last 3 yrs, my feeling is that we hindus (including me) have taken a great thrill dissing the ``other`` side...be it Islam or Pakistan; but when we get the taste of our own medicine--we howl with outrage. And when an uncouth brahmin like me makes us swollow our own medicine, its a lot easier to get angry at my boorishness, my ``self-hate``, my ``need to please the other side`` etc...than admit that our medicine, indeed, tastes very bitter.

Its also my observation that Pakistani muslims are more apt to be more introspective about the bs in their religion & country, than we Hindians (hindu Indians) are....but then, its just one person`s opinion...

Now, please feel free to throw more rotten tomatoes at me & trim my penis down to size....fortunately, I have a thick skin..I would RESPECTFULLY implore some of you Hindians to thicken your skins...until then; we might as well take Subroto`s advice & drop it...

#272 by tahmed32 reminds me of an old fable. Let me share that again -
A camel decided to get married. He decorated himself and started inviting all the animals. Animals came to the party. At last a donkey came and congratulated Camel. Oh Brother camel! you are looking really beautiful and handsome!! Camel was overcome with this praise. He responded, ``Brother Donkey! you too have a wonderful voice, please sing us a song``
----
Oh English literature ke gurus, remind me of english equivalent of ``ek thaili ke chatte batte.`` Is it ``birds of same ...``? I have forgotten the idioms taught by my Sinha sir ;-)

Now forgettting these silly analogies

``The fact that you said all this without any strong language will, I am sure, not suddenly switch these people into singing ``shankar maharaj ki jai hoi`` of course. They will simply ignore what you wrote, or else call you some names. But they wont have the ``rude, crude`` stick to use anymore. So let us sit back and watch how the turkeys react. `` ...

Lo jee, why won`t turkey react? Is it a bizli ka switch ke Shankar Maharaj switches off his vulgar posts and turkey`s are supposed to applaud him instantly. Basic civil behavior is expected from everyone and Shankar maharaj is no exception.

BTW, Ahmed mian, you were advised earlier, and again being politely advised, please stop dreaming of filling the shoes of bahmed. They are too big for you.

And like Subroto said, these letter typing consumes too much energy, and in this economy, I would prefer to keep my gainful employement and earn my $$, I will perhaps keep quite for a while.. But then.. who knows ;-)

Dear Shankar - I loved your post #93 ! Please never stop writing like that - people like Buddha and Nanak have said what you did in kinder words afterall. I was actually more put off by your joining the so serious and sermonizing Sadna bashers than anything you said about Hinduism - you`re not going to change the woman Shanks, any more than anyone is going to change you !! I liked her (solumn as usual, so what?) post #110 about your #93 too - where she had said the folksy myths and stories we grew up with do have the same philosophy as the Sanskrit classics - she`s right - after reading lots of stuff recently I find a blind begger in Bihar singing bhojpuri Bhajans knows as much as I do after reading this stuff. Which is not to say there isn`t crapola in Hinduism - there is a lot of narrowminded caste, customs and superstisions in there which is just harmful and nonsense and now all this ugly hatemongering hindutva stuff - I`d take your version anyday !! Anyway - got to go - have to finish making the ten-headed-ravan pinata for my kids to bash (good idea huh ?!) for this crapola thing called Dushehra ... it`s today, O irreverant one - a happy one to you too !!!

P.S. - Could you please give certain ``Monstahcow``s, ``Hindu``s and other sundry langots on certain other cybersites a taste of your wit instead of picking on sweet saddie ? ZAT is too nice to call them names ...

`cheap thrills` -- `cheap thrills`:-)

In the Turkish Hammam of self criticism -- not self aggrandizement -- called Chowk -- where everybody is naked -- some people INSIST taking showers fully clothed in holy garments -- while enjoying the unflattering view of others.

now THAT is called -- seeking `cheap thrills` :-)

Subroto #276 I had ignored Banjara`s note since (presumably in attempting to be clever) it did not provide the reader the courtesy of specifying who he meant with ``self-appointed chowk moderator``. As such, the letter deserves no attention and I had ignored it.
You refer to his letter to explain to me why I am applying a double standard in not condemning Shankar. I have written two posts explaining my views on this issue. Let me repeat again: What I consider offensive is the denigration of an entire community. A couple of pakistanis (Urstruly and Ali1) sometimes would ridicule hindus as a community, and I wrote posts protesting this behavior on their part. A number of Indian posters routinely ridicule pakistanis and/or muslims as a community, and I write posts protesting this behavior on their part. These protests (whether directed to Indian or Pakistani hate-mongerers) includes ridiculing the poster himself at times, and has not endeared me to these turkeys. I dont care.
Shankar DOES NOT fall in this category of hate mongerers. He is obviously comfortable with his Indian heritage, and secure enough to criticise it. You and a couple of other posters like dost mittar are offended by his language, and you have every right to be. But others I know are using this ``language issue`` to get back on him for daring to ridicule aspects of hindu rituals. At one time, harimau and Rsaxena (two of the less savory characters on chowk) would routinely ridicule shankar when he wrote anything criticising hinduism. Now it seems to be open-season with others jumping on the bandwagon.
Long note, and sorry to have to drag on this topic. But this I think is what happens when people ignore what someone is writing (as my earlier two posts have been ignored), and when they obviously have not yet learnt how to talk straight like a man (like banjaraa and satyavadi before him and their dark references to some unnamed poster).
I dont know if this clears

RE 260 by tahmed32
Sir aap phir meri baat nahi samjhe. I have heard and read far more colurful language so as to get embarassed by butt kissing expletives. My point was the double standard being applied here. Banjara sahib (#270) has articulated it well enough. Lets just drop the issue now as it is consuming far too much energy - I have never submitted so many posts on a discussion thread before - the inherent lazy person is me is unable to handle such a large amount of typing, as it is the scroll button works overtime these days.
End of story, khattam shudh, finito, sampla.....no more......
aaaggh runs screaming from the room....the men in white coats follow silently...

meanwhile in a small steak bar in Montana....

Banjara #270::

[[The self appointed Chowk moderator encourages the shrink because he gets a cheap thrill when hinduism gets dissed,just like some of the indian interactors do the jay-jaykaars of samir JB or solitude when they diss islam.I have no problem with either side of provocateurs,but I do have problems when an educated,grown up behaves like shankar has been behaving with sadna and getting away with it under the garb of introspection and freedom of speech. `Double standards` should be applied equally ]]

Shankar and the self appointed moderator(also the ex morality police and the deposed anti-chauvinist icon) HEAR HEAR!!!

Satyavadi

#269 Shankar:

You indulge yourself too much in believing that you flipped the Hindus (what about the non-Hindus, no comments for them?) because you wrote a few posts criticising Hinduism. Infact I am not sure if your gibberish could even be called crticism.

You and your self-proclaimed chamchas know why you got the responses you got. Its because of the filthy Bombay Mawali language, the utter lack of substance in your posts and your flagrant insults to a specific poster.

Its sad that I am writing all this to a person who is atleast 15 years my senior. But then as Banjara said, you need to grow up.

from Banjara #270:

[[[The self appointed Chowk moderator encourages the shrink because he gets a cheap thrill when hinduism gets dissed,just like some of the indian interactors do the jay-jaykaars of samir JB or solitude when they diss islam.I have no problem with either side of provocateurs,but I do have problems when an educated,grown up behaves like shankar has been behaving with sadna and getting away with it under the garb of introspection and freedom of speech. `Double standards` should be applied equally ]]]

Pennls god,
``We are faceless voices operating in the anonymity of cyberspace & what we think of each other does not affect our real lives in any shape or form. Our self esteem comes from what we think of ourselves-not from what others (esp Chowkies) think of us.``....

If you are doing only because of anonymity offered to you by cyberspace, you are more of a self centered moron than I thought you were.

You have all the rights to blasphame your religion or anything else. But if you want to play with filth while interacting, you must expect filth to be thrown your way. If you offer your butt, you must expect someone to fill all the holes (and make few more).

Perhaps you are under the impression that by eating beef you became somewhat unique or special. No sir, there are many others who eat beef (and pork, and frogs) and just do not care. Difference is that while you make it a point to make mockery of those who do not acknowledge greatness bestowed upon your pennls-ness by eating beef, many other don`t give damn about whether you eat beef or shlt.


``However, in your eagerness to throw dirt at me, could you ponder a few things? I mean.. feel free to kill the messenger, but at least dont ignore the message--disagree with it, but at least ponder upon it....``

Feel free to bring a message but do not expect everyone to accept you as messenger and do not insist that everyone takes your message. If you insist for acceptance as some divine all-important messenger, you will receive rotten tomatoes.

I certainyl do not expect a pea-brain like to you to learn this lesson easily. You will soon again start sticking your pennls everywhere try to be pennls- god and someone will again be tempted to cut that to size.

Shankar #269 I this post you criticise hindu posters on chowk, clear and simple. You say they are quick to take offense at a hindu (i.e. yourself) ridiculing hinduism (i.e. hindu customs/rituals) and to call you a brown-noser, and that muslims ridiculing islam (i.e. islamic customs/rituals) are not called the same. You may be reasonably close to the facts (as evidenced in chowk posts on this board at least) when you say this. This wont endear you of course to those who see themselves reflected in you criticism. But then, as you say, you are not running for Mr. Congeniality on chowk.
The fact that you said all this without any strong language will, I am sure, not suddenly switch these people into singing ``shankar maharaj ki jai hoi`` of course. They will simply ignore what you wrote, or else call you some names. But they wont have the ``rude, crude`` stick to use anymore. So let us sit back and watch how the turkeys react.
Incidentally, paki posters like hamidm are not totally unchallenged. Indeed, I myself have at one time assured him that he was a self-hating fellow... (You see, I am not running for Mr. Congeniality either).

The self appointed Chowk moderator encourages the shrink because he gets a cheap thrill when hinduism gets dissed,just like some of the indian interactors do the jay-jaykaars of samir JB or solitude when they diss islam.I have no problem with either side of provocateurs,but I do have problems when an educated,grown up behaves like shankar has been behaving with sadna and getting away with it under the garb of introspection and freedom of speech. `Double standards` should be applied equally:)

dost-mittarji,

``I remember some panditjis` pravachans (during those unavoidable kirya/kriya karms) explaining that an individual`s soul is in a state of limbo for 13 days after death, after which it - unless it has obtained mukti/moksha/nirvana - transmigrates into another body. Can this, does this, should this be reconcilable with the concept of impermanent swarg/nark presented here?``


I wish I knew!

My opinion is that this swarg/narg business is something left over from the very ancient puranic traditions...that have somehow got mixed up with more modern (but still ancient) permament soul/moksha/nirvana theories...and as such they are incompatible.

And...as the hon`ble Drumz rightly said, all these theories can be torn apart by 15-year olds.

Sadna`s typical response to questions of this kind have traditionally been to refer people to this book or that...and I`m glad traditions are being maintained!!!

Incidentally your `hero` Buddha completely refuted the `permanent soul` theory...maybe you knew as much.

--------------------------------

However...I will venture a guess about this 13/14 day business:

In the most ancient Indian traditions, the far side of the Moon (what we call the dark-side of the Moon) has, for some reason, been regarded as dwelling place for ancestral-souls.

Some ancient books that I personally read mention this. And most of hindu ancestral worship has something to do with the Moon.

Manu, for eg., says that a month on earth is equal to a day and night for the pitri (ancestors). That our krishna-paksha (dark fortnight) is their day and our shukla-paksa (white fornight) is their night.

(Now this is an amazing astronomical statement in itself. The ancient Indians knew that the Moon keeps the same side facing earth, which the `great Greeks` do not seem to have found out).

Perhaps this 14-day (fortnight) chakkar has something to do with this.


cheeers,

Dear hindus,

To those of you who have supported my right to ``blaspheme`` my own religion, thankyou.

To many of you, who have dissed me for my inappropriate language...please throw your rotten tomatoes at me -as much as your heart desires. Like I said, I havent come here to seek anyone`s approval or disapproval. Chowk is not a popularity contest & I`m not trying to seek citizenship of Pakistan, convert to Islam or anything else. Heck, I myself have admitted that my behavior has been crude, rude & ignorant-so if you want to flame me for that; I humbly admit that I richly deserve your heckling...Your opinion of me, personally, means didley squat in the larger scheme of things. We are faceless voices operating in the anonymity of cyberspace & what we think of each other does not affect our real lives in any shape or form. Our self esteem comes from what we think of ourselves-not from what others (esp Chowkies) think of us.

However, in your eagerness to throw dirt at me, could you ponder a few things? I mean.. feel free to kill the messenger, but at least dont ignore the message--disagree with it, but at least ponder upon it.

All this hangama started when I said that :
a)not eating beef--or any kind of meat for that matter..
b)most of us dont know/understand hindu philosophy
c)most of us dont understand a damn bit of the rituals that take place during a puja
d)extolling the virtues of cow piss & sh*t..
etc etc
is all a bunch of crapola....

Whoah...some super-sensitive hindus got all hot & bothered about what I said & took umbrage at the fact that I used the word ``crapola``! Well, if those guys (& gal) are getting mad at me for dissing hinduism, but claiming theyre mad because I`m not using ``proper`` language...I`ll give you a profusion of more crapola language. Arent we a wee bit ``stuck-up`` about our religion?...what do you think ``thumb-up-your-butt`` means?! Sheesh...& I thought hindus love to think metaphorically, our mythology (as far as I`m concerned) is rich in metaphors. But it seems when one is dissing the religion, we hate colorful, anatomical metaphors.

There have been a few muslims who have dissed Islam. Muslims have disagreed & argued with them..but they are not accused of ``trying to impress hindus``. There have been more than a few Pakistanis who have dissed everything about Pakistan. They have not been accused as ``Indian brown-nosers``. However, during those fights, I have seen many hindus gleefully cheering from the sidelines & adding to the argument with generous dallops of ``heeng``.

We hindus think muslims are sensitive about their religion & intolerant towards anybody who criticises it. Yes, Islam has been hijacked by fundos who have spoilt its good name by introducing blasphemy laws & comitting acts of terrorism. Most muslims on Chowk readily admit that & are hurt about the fact that they have to defend Islam in a world that is becoming increasingly hostile to them.

In our eagerness to revel in the above, I think we hindus should ponder about what is happening to us. We are sensitive & intolerant about criticism of our religion. As a group, we are becoming more militant. We are becoming more prejudiced. Our religion is shamelessly hijacked by our fundos. We dont have blasphemy laws; but events have shown that if muslims ever challenge us, we conduct pogroms & BBQ them shamelessly. Then we make ``excuses`` like..``they started it!``..``they are Paki sympathisers!``. We have a CM in Gujrat who shamelessly grandstands those events. How many hindus have been taken to task for that kind of behavior?!

In the same vein, if I`m critical of Indian behavior in Kashmir, does it make me a Paki brown noser? I hate ``freedom fighters`` & Pakistani behavior in Kashmir as much as the next guy. But does that let us off the hook? How many times can India abuse human rights & get away with it? Blaming Pakistan is , many times, a convenient cover-up. Dont tell me the average Kashmiri doesnt know that!

So, we come back to a full circle. AFS was bold enough to write an article of the bs she percieves in her own religion. Well, bravo to her! Its time all of us stuck to criticising the bs in ourselves..rather than harping about the bs of the ``other side``. We`ll be better people for it. Er..an honest to goodness mudsling fest, once in a while, can be fun too:)

As far as my crass language is concerned, I`ll try to control my mouth...but its hard for a dog to start meowing...but please focus on what I`m saying, rather than how I`m saying it. Please feel free to scorn me, though....I`m not standing for election here..the sun will shine, the birds will sing & s*it will continue to happen in your lives & mine...despite what some of you guys think of me...

dost #264,
I remeber that sardar ji joke match that happened between you (?) and (who I don`t remebmber)

A milder non-offensive humor goes much better with me. I reserve other brand only for very intimate friends (who I know will not get offended)!!

friends

Yep, Dost-Mittar Sahab appreciates good humor but he doesn`t write in a humorous way, may be satirical sometimes. anNy has more of a cutie pie type of endearing style. Hamidm is the real witty guy. He has a very unique writing style embellished with wit and satire that I have not read anywhere else. Sameer`s writings very often belong to an altogether different brand of what I call ``scientific humor``, if you know what I mean. From the Indian side, subroto attempts some good humor at times. Stuka-Ali1 fights also generate some hearty laughs. Zafar employs very sophisticated humor in his writings and sometimes his posts are very funny. For instance, I still remember one of his posts in which he summarised hobbyty`s writings in the form of a very funny dialogue. Rsaxena also cracks some good humor at times and he is at his best against scout.

PS Excuse my commenting upon humor. As you all know I completely lack this quality and hence may not be even qualified to comment upon it.

dost-mittar #259
You could look up this book : Death to Birth Understanding Karma and Reincarnation by Rajmani Tigunait. Don`t know whether you will find your answers in it though, I read the karma part and totally skipped the death/reincarnation part, as it was a bit too spooky for me.

Dr Shankar,
That thumb up the butt thing, does that signify some homosexual self gratification or do U mean they R like confused babies who dont know 1 end from the other & put their thumbs up the wrong end? Unusual (not to mention uncomfortable) imagery. Whats the psych underpinning - inquiring minds & all that.

anNy #255
Cutie-pie,
A grown man should act like a grown person. If he prefers to act like a mumbai mawali, he should expect to get same treatment.

dost-mitter#259,
Dost,
I think (only my opinion, no hard facts) many of these customs were just created by our pundits. Many got created by ignorant public just following the words and not the meaning behind them.
I do not know the rationale behind impure soul or 13th day ceremony.
But another puja that appears to be quite unexplainable is ``styanarayan`` puja.

Subroto #254
`double standards`
Actually its simply explained. As I wrote in #171:
``Why disagreeing with some oracles on chowk is pronounced the sign of biological or psychological or social abnormalities is something I never understand``

There is blasphemy on chowk too, and that is defined as contradicting the established demigods of chowk. One established demigod on chowk is only following the established chowk practice of asserting his infallible godly status by posting many post defending himself personally, many abusive posts about a dissenter (elaborating on my anal/social/psychological deficiencies) and not a SINGLE one explaining himself on the subject of dissent( in this case Hindu pooja).


Where the issue of Hindu reform is concerned, its is also a question of who is expert in what.

Some Hindu reformers were social activists, some were religious scholars, some were political activists, others were simply listening to the call of their conscience, all approached Hindu reform through honestly reexamining the ideas and practices in their field of expertise for the benefit of their coreligionists. The celebrated reformer on chowk honestly applies his anal expertise to Hindu reform. We should not be ungrateful, they also serve who stand and itch.

#252,
Nasah maharaaj,
As far as Shankar mian`s edicts are concerned.
``Par updesh kushal bahutere``
Every ``bhai`` in Mumbai, and every charltan in our UP throws such edicts around, all while doing his day`s work.

Do not compare Hamidm with our pennls god. Hamidm does not need a human target to convey his point of view. On the other hand, pennls`s ire is always directed towards a human target.
When vile and crudeness covers 99% of message, remaining 1%edicts are lost.
Such ``humor`` and ``comedy`` is tolerable to me only to an extent. I would rather prefer a straight dose of facts and plain language (which ``Sadna devi`` and many others very gratefully provide).
If you really prefer humor, check anNy, or hamidm, or dost-mitter.

Subroto #254 Agreed on your ``only objection`` that Shankar should not use sexual/toilet references when referring to another chowk poster. I had made a very gentle plea to this effect in a post below to Shankar which he either did not read or did not bother to respond. So, I continue to share your ``only objection`` to Shankar`s posts. There simple way to handle the situation I think: Having made the above point, ignore Shankar`s posts, thus de